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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 1:30:18 GMT
Did he have unseemly habits and behaviors you minimized and rationalized? behaviors that when seen in the clear light of day, wobble that pedestal? is he a bad boy type? have you idealized him into a wonderful guy so that he could fit your fantasy ? i know the answers to the first three questions, only you know the answer to the fourth. but i suspect.... wisdom is to see people, and things, as they really are, instead of how we want them to be. if he falls off that pedestal he can't save you but you know what? little tnr9 already has someone who CAN working on that, she's covered.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 21, 2018 2:35:39 GMT
Did he have unseemly habits and behaviors you minimized and rationalized? behaviors that when seen in the clear light of day, wobble that pedestal? is he a bad boy type? have you idealized him into a wonderful guy so that he could fit your fantasy ? i know the answers to the first three questions, only you know the answer to the fourth. but i suspect.... wisdom is to see people, and things, as they really are, instead of how we want them to be. if he falls off that pedestal he can't save you but you know what? little tnr9 already has someone who CAN working on that, she's covered. 1. Yes 2. Probably...again, goes back to question 1 3. He would have been called a bad boy type when he was younger....not sure he fits the description now (goes back to question 1) 4. Probably...but I have also considered that perhaps it fits a bit into my model of not making my parents into bad guys....I can certainly make guys I am not attracted to into bad guys....but not guys that I fall so fast for.
Here is the truth Juniper...every single habit/behavior I can either justify as being Ok and why am I making such a big deal about it or that I somehow exacerbated it (not unlike feeling like I was responsible for how my parents treated me...same concept really....very, very challenging to crack this one_ OR (and this is the kicker) I think now that he isn't dating me, those habits are being replaced with good behaviors and habits....ie he doesn't smoke cigarettes anymore, he changed his phone to vibrate until he sees his text messages (so he is much better at responding in a timely fashion), he is attending school (he got As on his last classes) etc. I know I am basing all of this on externals....but externals are all I see and it is far too easy to equate externals to internals. I know this is good Juniper...I know you are helping me...I know that I am a bit paralyzed by my own doing....it is just really difficult to cut through all of the fantasy and denial and excuses and justifications....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 2:42:04 GMT
you're doing so good tnr9. you're being brave. we all have been terribly disillusioned , excruciatingly misled by our perceptions that were molded by our original wounding. just tear it down. the facade. the illusion. these things destroy us and it's rough on your hands and knuckles but just keep tearing it down. you're doing fine. it sucks but you are doing fine. i'm still proud of you.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 21, 2018 2:44:58 GMT
you're doing so good tnr9 . you're being brave. we all have been terribly disillusioned , excruciatingly misled by our perceptions that were molded by our original wounding. just tear it down. the facade. the illusion. these things destroy us and it's rough on your hands and knuckles but just keep tearing it down. you're doing fine. it sucks but you are doing fine. i'm still proud of you. Thanks so much juniper! Taking it one day at a time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 2:50:24 GMT
you're doing so good tnr9 . you're being brave. we all have been terribly disillusioned , excruciatingly misled by our perceptions that were molded by our original wounding. just tear it down. the facade. the illusion. these things destroy us and it's rough on your hands and knuckles but just keep tearing it down. you're doing fine. it sucks but you are doing fine. i'm still proud of you. Thanks so much juniper! Taking it one day at a time. that is exactly how it's done. thanks for keeping us posted.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 21, 2018 4:34:41 GMT
I know I am basing all of this on externals....but externals are all I see and it is far too easy to equate externals to internals. This is really important to recognize!!! I made this same mistake. Why did I try again with my ex? Externals. Yes, he was spending all his time with me again, but that's easy to do with no pressure. So I was gauging him by some things that he was finally addressing in his life that he wouldn't deal with two years ago. I also thought, externals must be driven by internals. This measurement was extremely incorrect! He was changing habits, not facing his core issues, the ones that make him struggle with being happy. Our problems were not solved because none of his changes reflected healing, management of fear, or consistency. He hadn't gone to therapy or gone deep on inner work, and fundamentally hadn't changed at all. He just had nicer packaging (such as, upgraded furniture in his house). So, he eventually cycled the same exact way all the way around, and we ended up back apart. I wonder, do you see B through a lens of, he's so much better than me, look at all these changes that were easy for him to make while I'm struggling? He's on his pedestal "moving on" (AP: high opinion of others), while you're pushing yourself down and struggling to do the same (AP: low opinion of self)? So thinking that way allows you to perpetuate the negative thinking while deflecting from your own work? I completely agree with you that this is at least partially related to your parents putting you in that position. My experience with narcissists is receiving a full imposition of the idea that you must have a high opinion of them because they are better than you. Growing up with two would drill that into your head. But that doesn't make it true. What if you try to flip the whole narrative? Don't worry about what B is doing or if he's fundamentally growing or changing. You really don't know, and it sounds incredibly unlikely he really is. If so, bravo to him, but I assure you that if it's the case, he's not struggling with it any less than you are. But, put it out of your mind to the extent you can! What makes you proud? That's what's more important. What can little tnr9 look up to, as you take your rightful place as her protector? For starters, your own steps forward in this journey and the courage that takes? What else? You're doing great right now, making small mindset shifts one day at a time and looking to keep growing. Keep focusing on your own path, even if it feels unnatural to do so. The discomfort means, you're doing something right.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 13:47:39 GMT
I know I am basing all of this on externals....but externals are all I see and it is far too easy to equate externals to internals. This is really important to recognize!!! I made this same mistake. Why did I try again with my ex? Externals. Yes, he was spending all his time with me again, but that's easy to do with no pressure. So I was gauging him by some things that he was finally addressing in his life that he wouldn't deal with two years ago. I also thought, externals must be driven by internals. This measurement was extremely incorrect! He was changing habits, not facing his core issues, the ones that make him struggle with being happy. Our problems were not solved because none of his changes reflected healing, management of fear, or consistency. He hadn't gone to therapy or gone deep on inner work, and fundamentally hadn't changed at all. He just had nicer packaging (such as, upgraded furniture in his house). So, he eventually cycled the same exact way all the way around, and we ended up back apart. I wonder, do you see B through a lens of, he's so much better than me, look at all these changes that were easy for him to make while I'm struggling? He's on his pedestal "moving on" (AP: high opinion of others), while you're pushing yourself down and struggling to do the same (AP: low opinion of self)? So thinking that way allows you to perpetuate the negative thinking while deflecting from your own work? I completely agree with you that this is at least partially related to your parents putting you in that position. My experience with narcissists is receiving a full imposition of the idea that you must have a high opinion of them because they are better than you. Growing up with two would drill that into your head. But that doesn't make it true. What if you try to flip the whole narrative? Don't worry about what B is doing or if he's fundamentally growing or changing. You really don't know, and it sounds incredibly unlikely he really is. If so, bravo to him, but I assure you that if it's the case, he's not struggling with it any less than you are. But, put it out of your mind to the extent you can! What makes you proud? That's what's more important. What can little tnr9 look up to, as you take your rightful place as her protector? For starters, your own steps forward in this journey and the courage that takes? What else? You're doing great right now, making small mindset shifts one day at a time and looking to keep growing. Keep focusing on your own path, even if it feels unnatural to do so. The discomfort means, you're doing something right. what a phenomenal post! i feel like we have such a great collaborative healing community, with various styles working together to support each other in healing up these things. i often feel at a loss as to how to appropriately encourage what i cannot fully understand, and then i read a post like this and i'm like "yes! this is it!" i have a broad view, so i will do my best to bring what i can in suppprt! it's really good stuff. i love it.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 22, 2018 2:33:47 GMT
So I had a bit of a breakthrough last night....which caused me to get only 5 hours of sleep. I had the following come to me and by the time I started to write it down, I was already beginning to lose the adult perspective so it remains unfinished. The bits in () I think are moments where I start to slide again.
Dear B,
I am in a bit of a "pickle" and (I need your help to resolve it). I have come to the conclusion during this break that seeing you week after week does not help me to "get over you" and instead of reacting out of some (misguided fear) I would rather respect our friendship and collaborate with you on next steps. This may sound like I am backtracking on my earlier comment that I don't want you to leave the community on account of me, but I still hold to that and I recognize that this is my issue to resolve. I plan to talk to L next week about stepping down as the lead of the newcomer team. I just need more time apart to allow my heart to fully heal.
After that, I lost my train of thought...honestly, I had writer's block....but it was awesome to even have that moment of adulthood. No crying, no trying to manipulate things. Just being clear/respectful and honest.
Then I had this image...I remembered when B first came to the community...he would go to social events with his son. It was like his son was his "crutch". I had a friend say that when he first met B, it was his son who introduced him. It was just good to remember that as much as I see myself as struggling...I know he has had his moments too.
All day today, I've actually been a bit removed from him...and it has been great. We texted a bit and it really did not impact me when he did not reply...but now as I am considering things...I wonder if I am emotionally numbing myself and not necessarily taking care of my little girl, but instead quieting her instead of nurturing her. Being states away has really helped and being in a hotel that has no connection to his and my time together has been refreshing. But I only have 2 more days before I head back. I'm not sure whether I should complete the above email that I was going to send. the idea was to see whether he would be willing to work with me and find another community or whether I should just go ahead and remove myself. The thing is...I don't have anything else in my life and that is where all my friends are...so I don't know what will replace it.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 22, 2018 17:07:21 GMT
So....I am no longer feeling numb...that was definitely a sign that something was up and I figured out what it was...and here we go:
**warning, this is a huge step backwards, but I want to be authentic on this journey**
The other day, my coworker suggested that I should have zero, nitch, nada contact with B...good advice...did I take it? NOPE. Yesterday he reached out about going to my place (he still has keys) and I let him under the pretense that he could meet my new cat and that I wasn't there. Basically, I enabled him again and justified it and I became paralyzed in "I let everyone down again." (which is just a distracting strategy to do nothing but act like a deer in front of headlights). So I am just going to admit that I let a teenager version run with that...you know..that rebellious you can't tell me what to do part that wants to continue the dance...not to get closer to the object of desire..but to do the opposite of what she is told. My adult went numb..did not come in and say...bad idea....so now I've let a ton of people down. Just being honest.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 22, 2018 19:35:13 GMT
You're not letting anyone down, that is in your head. People who know you want what's best for you, which is whatever is going to make you happy. But the only person you have to worry about letting down is yourself, anyway, no other opinions matter in this case. It's natural that this is a process and that you're going to try different things, some which work and some which don't. I said earlier in the thread somewhere that it's not productive for you to beat yourself up over any regression (unless you're the kind of person who is really motivated by doing so, but I don't get that read from your posts). Breathe and forgive yourself, and keep moving forward, even if it's not in a linear way! You'll have another chance to react to him differently, if you choose to, soon enough I'm sure.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 23, 2018 1:38:17 GMT
Thanks Alexandria....thankful to have these boards and be able to post honestly. Today I received nothing...not a single text..and I was ok. I did not, as I have been prone to do in the past, wonder why he did not reach out. So I will take that as a small victory. One more day here and then I am homebound.
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Post by leavethelighton on Aug 23, 2018 23:41:25 GMT
I agree with Alexandria. Don't worry about what other people think about your choices. It's all part of the journey. Keep focusing on what you need/want.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 25, 2018 3:21:45 GMT
I am back home....I sat through 2 hours of excruciating feelings of "not ok" and I wanted to look at B's FB page..but did not.I came to the conclusion 2 days ago that giving my feelings away is equivalent to giving my power away. I own my feelings....that does not mean that I am not impacted by others...but how I address them is on me. I am ok right now. I honestly did so well with having some physical space this week, along with leaving thecommunity webpage. I love Bvery much...but I think I need to continue this path of not seeing him. That is theonly way that I will heal.
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