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Post by happyidiot on Sept 5, 2018 5:21:07 GMT
Oh, that is absolutely why he thinks he's AP. We naturally click so well I guess he stuck around for a much longer time than usual, but it's kind of ironic that because I don't activate his anxiety, he ends up deactivating totally. He keeps cycling through losing attraction for me for reasons he doesn't understand and hopes time will just fix for him, but still wants to keep me nearby after breaking up with me... so I think it's safe to say something is off. And I've been thinking about this anyway, but especially after reading other responses in this thread, I think the problem is ultimately that he doesn't trust me. Not because of me, he just can't trust anyone. I think you're right that a lot of the descriptions are not great, and when I was calling it "anxious-avoidant" I really got lousy answers that sort of made intellectual sense but made me think that style was basically shorthand for BPD and I'd never met anyone with it! It was a black box compared to the other 3 styles. In response to some of the other comments here, I think the AP passion is in part a distraction, but I think it's also a way to create value. So in the situations where people have said there were other external non-romantic triggers while single, and then they found a person to fall for, it can provide value and a reason for being in difficult times that the insecure partner can't provide for themselves due to low self-esteem. The other responses to this thread also made wonder, for FA, if the need for the passionate "pull" to stay present in the relationship also has to do with low self-esteem for additional reasons? Like, when times are quiet and neither the anxiety nor the engulfment is activated, if the FA doesn't have a strong sense of self-esteem and agency, then can it be difficult to muster the motivation to be there for your partner? Like, you didn't receive that kind of love to model off of and kind of don't know how to be a self-starter even for your own needs, so it seems confusing and then blah and then "not right." And, going back to other threads discussing about thinking of love as a choice instead of a feeling, if you're not someone who thinks of love in that way of being a daily choice, then it's easier to get bored and bail. I'm not really going anywhere specific with this paragraph, but got curious. Yes! I was going to say something about that in my last post, that I gain energy and purpose from a certain kind of relationship anxiety. But I'm still in a stage of thinking, "Am I really mainly FA or am I just nuts?" and as an outside observer of some strongly FA people I can't quite tell if it's the same for them. But then I realized it's possible I can also gain energy from a certain kind of avoidance, like if I take off on a trip by myself or spend all my time exercising. In between the extremes I feel unmotivated in general, not only about relationships. |
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Post by jaleesa on Sept 5, 2018 21:42:55 GMT
Thank you! It helps to hear your story. My dating life has already improved by leaps and bounds over the past few years, so rationally I know that I'm growing fast and it will just keep getting better. Do you think it's possible that you were AP in romantic relationships in the past because you quickly rejected anyone who didn't enable you to feel AP? I really don't know to be honest. I avoided dating altogether until I was 27 so I didn't reject a lot of people. I've only had one serious relationship, with the DA guy I mention a lot on this forum. Before that I had some flings, nothing serious, but they made me AP as well. It's really weird. It will get better! It's a lot of hard work most of the time, but it's totally worth it. |
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Post by mrob on Sept 5, 2018 22:21:18 GMT
I was relieved. Then I read about the rarity and thought ”Why on Earth can’t I be something main stream for a change?” Oh well.
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Post by leavethelighton on Sept 7, 2018 0:34:25 GMT
I don't know... some of the things I've read say being FA is rare (was it 5% of the population?), and usually only happens if people experienced extreme abuse/neglect as a child. But is that true or is there an FA spectrum like there is with other attachment styles? I think it's possible to be AP who sometimes slides to DA to compensate and for self protection, though I can't really figure out if I'm more AP or more DA. I also don't know if my self-esteem is high or low. It really has a lot to do with context. Should I wonder if I'm really FA? But I can relate a lot more to descriptions of AP and DA, depending on context. The only person I know who I think is definitely FA engages in so much pushing away in spite of their intense desires that they literally can't maintain ANY friendships or romances and their behavior is extremely self defeating. They also had VERY abusive and dysfunctional parents. But is she an extreme case of being FA or a typical one? Personally I suspect that statistic is inaccurate. I saw one study where nearly 20% of the people in the study tested as FA, I'll see if I can find it. I think the problem is FA has not been well-studied and many studies only differentiate between avoidant and anxious. I was abused as a child. It's definitely possible to be AP who sometimes slides into avoidance, so for someone's main style to be FA I think their whole life and all their relationships need to be looked at. It needs to be a lot more than just once in a while. I would say the person you described is an extreme example of FA, and there is definitely a spectrum like with any attachment style. I think the very extreme ends of insecure attachment styles can manifest in personality disorders. People are going to have different degrees of secure thrown in. At my age I have a good dose of secure. What exactly do you mean by pushing away? By pushing away I mean things like ending the friendship, rejecting people (though perceiving herself to be rejected), finding reasons to dislike everyone, etc. |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 9, 2018 22:39:35 GMT
mrob Why relieved? jaleesa Do you feel like it's getting better for you? leavethelighton Ah, I see. I think the extreme end of FA is BPD and people struggling with BPD tend to alienate everyone around them, while feeling victimized. That sounds a lot like BPD behavior, based on my limited info. I'm sure there are plenty of subtle "functional" FA people. I think one of the reasons I took so long to consider I could have any avoidance in me was because I've surrounded myself with people who are much more avoidant than I am and was comparing myself to them.
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Post by mrob on Sept 10, 2018 0:23:30 GMT
Relieved, because there was actually some explanation for my irrational behaviour, and I wasn’t the only one.
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Post by epicgum on Sept 10, 2018 0:57:11 GMT
I feel similarly to mrob in that it is a relief to feel like there is a larger issue that ok there people are also dealing with and it's not just a series of bad decisions you made on your own. |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 10, 2018 3:59:08 GMT
mrob and epicgum That makes sense. I was relieved to find out about attachment styles for the same reasons, it just freaked me out when I went from thinking I was solidly AP to the sinking feeling that there was much more to it. I remember I made a naive post a little while ago about how I love FA people because we are so similar, ha! Now I feel like I need to wriggle free from conflicting attachment issues on both sides, but at least my eyes have been opened to them. I'm thankful for this community.
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Post by epicgum on Sept 10, 2018 4:39:31 GMT
mrob and epicgum That makes sense. I was relieved to find out about attachment styles for the same reasons, it just freaked me out when I went from thinking I was solidly AP to the sinking feeling that there was much more to it. I remember I made a naive post a little while ago about how I love FA people because we are so similar, ha! Now I feel like I need to wriggle free from conflicting attachment issues on both sides, but at least my eyes have been opened to them. I'm thankful for this community. I've read that FA slash "disorganized" people tend to date one another and these relationships tend to be traumatic. For me, I was more surprised as to the "AP" bit of my personality rather than the avoidant. I kind of knew I was avoidant...the idea/realization that, f---- I'm needy and insecure in this other crazy way was the dispiriting part because I had built up this false identity that "I dont care about rejection, because I dont need anyone, I'm fine on my own" |
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Post by jaleesa on Sept 19, 2018 13:27:25 GMT
mrob Why relieved? jaleesa Do you feel like it's getting better for you? leavethelighton Ah, I see. I think the extreme end of FA is BPD and people struggling with BPD tend to alienate everyone around them, while feeling victimized. That sounds a lot like BPD behavior, based on my limited info. I'm sure there are plenty of subtle "functional" FA people. I think one of the reasons I took so long to consider I could have any avoidance in me was because I've surrounded myself with people who are much more avoidant than I am and was comparing myself to them. Yes I do! Most of my friends said that I did a complete 180 and that they don't even recognize me anymore lol. I see it as a huge compliment. I still consider myself a work in progress, I'm not there yet, but I'm really proud of what I've achieved so far. This sounds so familiar to me: "I think one of the reasons I took so long to consider I could have any avoidance in me was because I've surrounded myself with people who are much more avoidant than I am and was comparing myself to them." My parents are avoidant, my ex boyfriend was avoidant, most of my friends were avoidant. Friendships with APs never lasted long. I always felt suffocated. I think I can handle avoidants better than APs because I'm partially avoidant myself, so I need a lot of space, even though I crave intimacy. Does this make any sense? I don't know, maybe I'm just weird! |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 19, 2018 22:53:10 GMT
I've read that FA slash "disorganized" people tend to date one another and these relationships tend to be traumatic. For me, I was more surprised as to the "AP" bit of my personality rather than the avoidant. I kind of knew I was avoidant...the idea/realization that, f---- I'm needy and insecure in this other crazy way was the dispiriting part because I had built up this false identity that "I dont care about rejection, because I dont need anyone, I'm fine on my own" Interesting. Has that been your experience? I think I do tend to fall in love with other FA people, who are more FA than me (meaning having either higher avoidance or both higher avoidance/higher anxiety) and, yes, it has tended to be traumatic for me. Although I've dated all sorts, I had a long healthy relationship with a secure person, and even a year with someone who I think was AP. My close friends are mostly FA too, but only one of those friendships has been traumatic. Friendship is a lot easier than romance. What you said makes sense. I've seen people I know put on what I believe is a false front of acting DA because it feels stronger to say, "I don't need relationships, no one can hurt me, I don't have insecurities," etc. I say it's false because I know them well enough that they share more of their true thoughts/feelings with me, and it's obvious they have low self-esteem, do in fact want relationships and can even get a bit clingy. jaleesa Do you feel like it's getting better for you? Yes I do! Most of my friends said that I did a complete 180 and that they don't even recognize me anymore lol. I see it as a huge compliment. I still consider myself a work in progress, I'm not there yet, but I'm really proud of what I've achieved so far. This sounds so familiar to me: "I think one of the reasons I took so long to consider I could have any avoidance in me was because I've surrounded myself with people who are much more avoidant than I am and was comparing myself to them." My parents are avoidant, my ex boyfriend was avoidant, most of my friends were avoidant. Friendships with APs never lasted long. I always felt suffocated. I think I can handle avoidants better than APs because I'm partially avoidant myself, so I need a lot of space, even though I crave intimacy. Does this make any sense? I don't know, maybe I'm just weird! Yes, that totally makes sense! The only person I dated who I think was probably AP where it lasted very long at all only really got my interest because I was sexually attracted, and likely only maintained my interest due to the great sex and by having some emotional unavailability, behaving very badly and playing games, as unhealthy as that sounds for me to admit. I used to think I was just an AP who needed a lot of space and was very independent and didn't fall in love often, which I doubt is actually a thing. |
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Post by epicgum on Sept 20, 2018 4:14:20 GMT
I've read that FA slash "disorganized" people tend to date one another and these relationships tend to be traumatic. For me, I was more surprised as to the "AP" bit of my personality rather than the avoidant. I kind of knew I was avoidant...the idea/realization that, f---- I'm needy and insecure in this other crazy way was the dispiriting part because I had built up this false identity that "I dont care about rejection, because I dont need anyone, I'm fine on my own" Interesting. Has that been your experience? I think I do tend to fall in love with other FA people, who are more FA than me (meaning having either higher avoidance or both higher avoidance/higher anxiety) and, yes, it has tended to be traumatic for me. Although I've dated all sorts, I had a long healthy relationship with a secure person, and even a year with someone who I think was AP. My close friends are mostly FA too, but only one of those friendships has been traumatic. Friendship is a lot easier than romance. What you said makes sense. I've seen people I know put on what I believe is a false front of acting DA because it feels stronger to say, "I don't need relationships, no one can hurt me, I don't have insecurities," etc. I say it's false because I know them well enough that they share more of their true thoughts/feelings with me, and it's obvious they have low self-esteem, do in fact want relationships and can even get a bit clingy. Yes I do! Most of my friends said that I did a complete 180 and that they don't even recognize me anymore lol. I see it as a huge compliment. I still consider myself a work in progress, I'm not there yet, but I'm really proud of what I've achieved so far. This sounds so familiar to me: "I think one of the reasons I took so long to consider I could have any avoidance in me was because I've surrounded myself with people who are much more avoidant than I am and was comparing myself to them." My parents are avoidant, my ex boyfriend was avoidant, most of my friends were avoidant. Friendships with APs never lasted long. I always felt suffocated. I think I can handle avoidants better than APs because I'm partially avoidant myself, so I need a lot of space, even though I crave intimacy. Does this make any sense? I don't know, maybe I'm just weird! Yes, that totally makes sense! The only person I dated who I think was probably AP where it lasted very long at all only really got my interest because I was sexually attracted, and likely only maintained my interest due to the great sex and by having some emotional unavailability, behaving very badly and playing games, as unhealthy as that sounds for me to admit. I used to think I was just an AP who needed a lot of space and was very independent and didn't fall in love often, which I doubt is actually a thing. For me? My 2 most recent adult exes I would have characterized as AP initially....but if I think about it a little more the last one had some commitment issues of her own, might be a little more FA than I had thought. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 6:39:46 GMT
I've read that FA slash "disorganized" people tend to date one another and these relationships tend to be traumatic. For me, I was more surprised as to the "AP" bit of my personality rather than the avoidant. I kind of knew I was avoidant...the idea/realization that, f---- I'm needy and insecure in this other crazy way was the dispiriting part because I had built up this false identity that "I dont care about rejection, because I dont need anyone, I'm fine on my own" Interesting. Has that been your experience? I think I do tend to fall in love with other FA people, who are more FA than me (meaning having either higher avoidance or both higher avoidance/higher anxiety) and, yes, it has tended to be traumatic for me. Although I've dated all sorts, I had a long healthy relationship with a secure person, and even a year with someone who I think was AP. My close friends are mostly FA too, but only one of those friendships has been traumatic. Friendship is a lot easier than romance. What you said makes sense. I've seen people I know put on what I believe is a false front of acting DA because it feels stronger to say, "I don't need relationships, no one can hurt me, I don't have insecurities," etc. I say it's false because I know them well enough that they share more of their true thoughts/feelings with me, and it's obvious they have low self-esteem, do in fact want relationships and can even get a bit clingy. In my worst FA years, this was exactly what I was doing. I was convincing myself and others that I didn't want anyone and avoided relationships. I may have come across as DA, but I definitely didn't have a high self-esteem. I needed validation from others, but I tried to hide it. At the same time I needed a lot of space and found other people exhausting. It was an identity crisis for me when I entered a relationship with a guy who was more avoidant and less anxious than me and made me very anxious. I was like hey, I'm the one supposed to be running away and avoiding you, I can't do that when you're so distant! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 13:01:33 GMT
Interesting. Has that been your experience? I think I do tend to fall in love with other FA people, who are more FA than me (meaning having either higher avoidance or both higher avoidance/higher anxiety) and, yes, it has tended to be traumatic for me. Although I've dated all sorts, I had a long healthy relationship with a secure person, and even a year with someone who I think was AP. My close friends are mostly FA too, but only one of those friendships has been traumatic. Friendship is a lot easier than romance. What you said makes sense. I've seen people I know put on what I believe is a false front of acting DA because it feels stronger to say, "I don't need relationships, no one can hurt me, I don't have insecurities," etc. I say it's false because I know them well enough that they share more of their true thoughts/feelings with me, and it's obvious they have low self-esteem, do in fact want relationships and can even get a bit clingy. In my worst FA years, this was exactly what I was doing. I was convincing myself and others that I didn't want anyone and avoided relationships. I may have come across as DA, but I definitely didn't have a high self-esteem. I needed validation from others, but I tried to hide it. At the same time I needed a lot of space and found other people exhausting. It was an identity crisis for me when I entered a relationship with a guy who was more avoidant and less anxious than me and made me very anxious. I was like hey, I'm the one supposed to be running away and avoiding you, I can't do that when you're so distant! I wonder if FA and DA date a lot. Everyone always talks about AP and DA. If someone is more avoidant than me, I take it as disinterest and it just dies. |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 20, 2018 17:57:52 GMT
I don't think FA/DA is uncommon, because FA tends to feel anxious when paired with someone more avoidant. It sounds like the phantom exes of the FAs I know were often avoidant and the pairing painful and chaotic.
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