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Post by happyidiot on Sept 4, 2018 5:59:44 GMT
Like most people, I learned a lot about attachment theory in the aftermath of romantic crisis. Like many people, I came into it convinced I solidly displayed one attachment style, in my case AP, because that is the one I'd felt most prominently in my most intense and upsetting romantic relationships. And like some of you here, once I started looking objectively at my life and all my relationships, I was floored to think I might actually be FA. Does this sound familiar?
I had been fearfully avoiding even considering the possibility that I am primarily fearful-avoidant.
I recall a psychologist suggested it to me early on (granted, one who didn't know much about attachment theory, and I knew even less back then) and I completely disregarded it, scoffing at the absurdity that I was at all avoidant. I saw myself in the mirror that was my FA ex but told myself, I'm not like him, I had real logical reasons for breaking up with the guy that I did that to. I took a test the other day that placed me as FA, I still didn't believe it. It has been slowly sinking in and I am freaking out. I don't want to be avoidant! I was much more comfortable considering myself AP. I knew I was different from my friend who is highly AP, I just told myself it was because I was more secure. I still think I am very different from my friends (and sibling or siblings) or exes who are FA, high on the DA side. I'm still not sure what to think about myself. What if I am not mostly AP with a hint of FA, but mostly FA and just so avoidant that I rarely get into a relationship unless I either get triggered into AP mode or calmed by a patient secure who I then dump? I previously ignored all the dating situations where I felt more avoidant because either in my head I didn't consider them "relationships" or they didn't make it past a couple dates. I start wondering things like, what if having a primary attachment style is hogwash pseudoscience and trying to figure out mine is a fool's errand?
Can anyone else relate to wanting to barf when you became aware of the attachment issues buried deeply in your psyche?
I am crying because I am horrified wondering if some AP whose heart I broke is sitting at home crying and resisting texting me and looking for advice on internet forums, and I just had no idea I even hurt him because he put on his best secure act, or because we didn't date long. I always felt ok because "at least" (other than when I was young) I have never really ghosted someone, blocked them, or broke up with them out of the blue (according to my perception), never told someone I "wasn't into them" or didn't love them after a significant relationship, but being considerate doesn't make me not avoidant. I'm avoiding people who want to date me right now.
I'm terrified I will never feel like I'm "in love" with someone unless I am in at least a slightly AP mode.
help
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Post by alexandra on Sept 4, 2018 8:08:18 GMT
happyidiot, I can tell you for sure, you're certainly not alone. The ex we're discussing in my other thread did the same thing. He's convinced himself he's AP even after testing with avoidance, acting totally differently than I ever did even though he knows I used to be extremely AP, and seriously showing every textbook FA trait. Another friend of mine who is older and has gotten very interested in attachment theory with me tested FA. I knew she'd be high on avoidance, but it hadn't occurred to her she'd be FA. Then she admitted she avoided telling me because she was so freaked out about it and wanted to deny it to hide it from herself. After thinking on it for a while, she's decided it's better to come to terms with it because it explains a lot and better illuminates a healing path. And there's at least two male FAs on this board who have posted about how awful they felt upon learning they were FA and may have inadvertently hurt all these people. So, you're not alone. But now, breathe, because it's going to be okay  You're more than your attachment style. Knowing your style, in my opinion, gives you a roadmap to help you understand yourself, tells you where to focus your self-work, and even allows you to work with professionals who have proven tools to help you. It's empowering, and not defining if you don't want it to be. I've said this on other threads, but awareness is one of the biggest giant steps towards healing. You've still got a lot of painful unpacking to do if you want to move towards earned secure, but there's hope to be happier in your life even if you just make small improvements. And as someone who has earned secure from AP, finding love that's not insecure anymore is still great. It feels a lot more sustainable because it's calm, safe, comfortable, familiar... like you're building a safe home base with a person instead of walking on eggshells. When you reach a point in life that you're tired of the draining AP drama-anxiety getting worse and worse and just not worth it, you gain a whole new perspective on what's possible. But you've got to start with yourself, and not judge yourself about wherever that starting point is. $hit happened, and now you can finally choose to do something about it.
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Post by jaleesa on Sept 4, 2018 13:09:00 GMT
Yes! I can relate so much.
After my previous relationship I've been nothing but painfully honest to myself, to the point that I was afraid to meet up with friends because these insights made me feel so ashamed of myself. It was all part of the process. I had to pick myself up again and hold myself accountable instead of withdrawing again. Over the years I lost so many friendships because I felt like I couldn't live up to their expectations. I've always been FA in friendships and I cried a river when I finally realized that I bailed on so many people, while they were probably wondering what they did wrong. It breaks my heart.
I don't know why but I was always attracted to guys who put me on a pedestal in the beginning and wanted to make it official within 10 seconds of knowing me. Maybe because this way I could feel secure and in control. Little did I know that this was actually the opposite of security and that I always chose men I could keep at a distance. In the end it always turned out that my partner was more avoidant than me, which made me AP. I don't know why I'm FA in general and AP in romantic relationships though. It's a weird pattern.
But, it's going to be okay!
My current boyfriend and I moved so slowly that I almost wanted to bail. We were dating for 6 months when he finally asked me to be his girlfriend and this entire time I felt the urge to push and pull, but I didn't cave. I tried to go with the flow, without losing sight of my own needs, and I'm actually really proud of myself for that. It was a good lesson. I've made a sincere effort to get to know him and it was completely out of my comfort zone, but looking back it was actually amazing. I read so many books and articles and I watched so many YouTube videos. I talked about it over and over and over again with my friends. When I met him I could finally translate it all into practice and I did this with succes. I'm way more confident and secure now.
I know it's hard but you can't change your past. You can't change the fact that you probably hurt people. The only thing you can do right now is becoming the best version of yourself so your future relationships will be healthy. Focus on that.
Best of luck!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 19:03:49 GMT
Yes! I can relate so much. After my previous relationship I've been nothing but painfully honest to myself, to the point that I was afraid to meet up with friends because these insights made me feel so ashamed of myself. It was all part of the process. I had to pick myself up again and hold myself accountable instead of withdrawing again. Over the years I lost so many friendships because I felt like I couldn't live up to their expectations. I've always been FA in friendships and I cried a river when I finally realized that I bailed on so many people, while they were probably wondering what they did wrong. It breaks my heart. I don't know why but I was always attracted to guys who put me on a pedestal in the beginning and wanted to make it official within 10 seconds of knowing me. Maybe because this way I could feel secure and in control. Little did I know that this was actually the opposite of security and that I always chose men I could keep at a distance. In the end it always turned out that my partner was more avoidant than me, which made me AP. I don't know why I'm FA in general and AP in romantic relationships though. It's a weird pattern. But, it's going to be okay! My current boyfriend and I moved so slowly that I almost wanted to bail. We were dating for 6 months when he finally asked me to be his girlfriend and this entire time I felt the urge to push and pull, but I didn't cave. I tried to go with the flow, without losing sight of my own needs, and I'm actually really proud of myself for that. It was a good lesson. I've made a sincere effort to get to know him and it was completely out of my comfort zone, but looking back it was actually amazing. I read so many books and articles and I watched so many YouTube videos. I talked about it over and over and over again with my friends. When I met him I could finally translate it all into practice and I did this with succes. I'm way more confident and secure now. I know it's hard but you can't change your past. You can't change the fact that you probably hurt people. The only thing you can do right now is becoming the best version of yourself so your future relationships will be healthy. Focus on that. Best of luck! Gosh, I'm exactly the same as you. A total avoidant with all friends, and almost all my family too. But in relationships I'm as AP as they come. What the hell is that all about. Is it going to be double the healing to get to secure lolz. Best wishes X |
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Post by whdavies on Sept 4, 2018 22:33:46 GMT
..Can anyone offer suggestions please as to why a FA might move back into the apartment complex she lived in with her ex bf even though he still lives there ?
From what im led to believe as avoidant would literally go to the other side of the planet to not see/have contact with an ex ?
Ive read about how FA's can make the most horrendous choices because of not being able to read situs and i wonder if this is simply one of them.
Any suggestions please and thanks ?
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Post by leavethelighton on Sept 5, 2018 1:24:27 GMT
I don't know... some of the things I've read say being FA is rare (was it 5% of the population?), and usually only happens if people experienced extreme abuse/neglect as a child. But is that true or is there an FA spectrum like there is with other attachment styles?
I think it's possible to be AP who sometimes slides to DA to compensate and for self protection, though I can't really figure out if I'm more AP or more DA. I also don't know if my self-esteem is high or low. It really has a lot to do with context. Should I wonder if I'm really FA? But I can relate a lot more to descriptions of AP and DA, depending on context.
The only person I know who I think is definitely FA engages in so much pushing away in spite of their intense desires that they literally can't maintain ANY friendships or romances and their behavior is extremely self defeating. They also had VERY abusive and dysfunctional parents. But is she an extreme case of being FA or a typical one?
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 5, 2018 1:56:18 GMT
happyidiot , I can tell you for sure, you're certainly not alone. The ex we're discussing in my other thread did the same thing. He's convinced himself he's AP even after testing with avoidance, acting totally differently than I ever did even though he knows I used to be extremely AP, and seriously showing every textbook FA trait. Another friend of mine who is older and has gotten very interested in attachment theory with me tested FA. I knew she'd be high on avoidance, but it hadn't occurred to her she'd be FA. Then she admitted she avoided telling me because she was so freaked out about it and wanted to deny it to hide it from herself. After thinking on it for a while, she's decided it's better to come to terms with it because it explains a lot and better illuminates a healing path. And there's at least two male FAs on this board who have posted about how awful they felt upon learning they were FA and may have inadvertently hurt all these people. So, you're not alone. But now, breathe, because it's going to be okay You're more than your attachment style. Knowing your style, in my opinion, gives you a roadmap to help you understand yourself, tells you where to focus your self-work, and even allows you to work with professionals who have proven tools to help you. It's empowering, and not defining if you don't want it to be. I've said this on other threads, but awareness is one of the biggest giant steps towards healing. You've still got a lot of painful unpacking to do if you want to move towards earned secure, but there's hope to be happier in your life even if you just make small improvements. And as someone who has earned secure from AP, finding love that's not insecure anymore is still great. It feels a lot more sustainable because it's calm, safe, comfortable, familiar... like you're building a safe home base with a person instead of walking on eggshells. When you reach a point in life that you're tired of the draining AP drama-anxiety getting worse and worse and just not worth it, you gain a whole new perspective on what's possible. But you've got to start with yourself, and not judge yourself about wherever that starting point is. $hit happened, and now you can finally choose to do something about it. Thank you! I wonder if it's possible your ex thinks he is AP because he just thinks most people he avoided were people he "wasn't into" or who he avoided for valid reasons, and so doesn't count those experiences? I told myself I was only AP because most people I felt more avoidant towards didn't make it past one or two dates, or if they did I felt very uncertain about them from the get-go and tried to mitigate their expectations. I don't throw myself into things and then suddenly change my mind, nor do I ghost or cancel on people, even when the urge to is strong. I may not have been aware of the size of my avoidant side, but I'm pretty self-aware and considerate in general, and if I feel like I want to avoid someone I will usually break it off very early and be pretty clear with them. I manage to have strong rules about things I won't do to people, because I've had them done to me. I can at least take solace in this fact, and in the fact that, while it's possible I may have missed out on someone great by avoiding getting to know them, I don't think I've broken up with someone great who I really shouldn't have after a while of happy dating because of it. Well, one person I did break up with after a very long time, to the puzzlement of people around me, but I didn't do it on a whim and communicated with him a lot during the process. I have no regrets about having ended it, I still believe the relationship wasn't right for me for reasons aside from attachment issues. I think the published descriptions of the fearful avoidant can be a bit misleading and keep people from considering it might be their style. Some are really over the top and extreme. Some make it sound like the FA is aware of what they are doing, and that they distance themselves any time they really like someone. I think it's more complex than that and I suspect that most are unaware of what they are doing or why. And it may happen for reasons other than "really liking" someone or feeling "close" to them, for me it can be anyone (somewhat independent of my feelings for them) who tries to get closer than I want them to. And I can distance for other reasons as well, or at least there are other reasons in my head. I'm sure even if someone is distancing because they love the person and that scares them, they might have an entire other conscious reason for it and that reason might feel totally valid to them. It's not always just an inexplicable feeling that they feel compelled to immediately act on. |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 5, 2018 2:15:31 GMT
I don't know... some of the things I've read say being FA is rare (was it 5% of the population?), and usually only happens if people experienced extreme abuse/neglect as a child. But is that true or is there an FA spectrum like there is with other attachment styles? I think it's possible to be AP who sometimes slides to DA to compensate and for self protection, though I can't really figure out if I'm more AP or more DA. I also don't know if my self-esteem is high or low. It really has a lot to do with context. Should I wonder if I'm really FA? But I can relate a lot more to descriptions of AP and DA, depending on context. The only person I know who I think is definitely FA engages in so much pushing away in spite of their intense desires that they literally can't maintain ANY friendships or romances and their behavior is extremely self defeating. They also had VERY abusive and dysfunctional parents. But is she an extreme case of being FA or a typical one? Personally I suspect that statistic is inaccurate. I saw one study where nearly 20% of the people in the study tested as FA, I'll see if I can find it. I think the problem is FA has not been well-studied and many studies only differentiate between avoidant and anxious. I was abused as a child. It's definitely possible to be AP who sometimes slides into avoidance, so for someone's main style to be FA I think their whole life and all their relationships need to be looked at. It needs to be a lot more than just once in a while. I would say the person you described is an extreme example of FA, and there is definitely a spectrum like with any attachment style. I think the very extreme ends of insecure attachment styles can manifest in personality disorders. People are going to have different degrees of secure thrown in. At my age I have a good dose of secure. What exactly do you mean by pushing away? |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 5, 2018 2:37:52 GMT
..Can anyone offer suggestions please as to why a FA might move back into the apartment complex she lived in with her ex bf even though he still lives there ? From what im led to believe as avoidant would literally go to the other side of the planet to not see/have contact with an ex ? Ive read about how FA's can make the most horrendous choices because of not being able to read situs and i wonder if this is simply one of them. Any suggestions please and thanks ? No, avoidant people often re-enter their exes' lives in some way. They don't always just avoid someone forever, that's why you see so many posts on the forums from people confused as to why their ex keeps coming back and then leaving, or contacting them and then ghosting them. They might go out of their way to avoid a person if the person is constantly chasing them, but if the chaser stops and hasn't done so much damage that the avoidant person now hates them... Having said that, who knows what is going on the mind of someone who moves back into their ex's building. It really could be for any number of reasons. She might not even understand her own reasons. Living in the same building does seem unusually bold, but don't forget an FA person is part AP. |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 5, 2018 2:54:20 GMT
Yes! I can relate so much. After my previous relationship I've been nothing but painfully honest to myself, to the point that I was afraid to meet up with friends because these insights made me feel so ashamed of myself. It was all part of the process. I had to pick myself up again and hold myself accountable instead of withdrawing again. Over the years I lost so many friendships because I felt like I couldn't live up to their expectations. I've always been FA in friendships and I cried a river when I finally realized that I bailed on so many people, while they were probably wondering what they did wrong. It breaks my heart. I don't know why but I was always attracted to guys who put me on a pedestal in the beginning and wanted to make it official within 10 seconds of knowing me. Maybe because this way I could feel secure and in control. Little did I know that this was actually the opposite of security and that I always chose men I could keep at a distance. In the end it always turned out that my partner was more avoidant than me, which made me AP. I don't know why I'm FA in general and AP in romantic relationships though. It's a weird pattern. But, it's going to be okay! My current boyfriend and I moved so slowly that I almost wanted to bail. We were dating for 6 months when he finally asked me to be his girlfriend and this entire time I felt the urge to push and pull, but I didn't cave. I tried to go with the flow, without losing sight of my own needs, and I'm actually really proud of myself for that. It was a good lesson. I've made a sincere effort to get to know him and it was completely out of my comfort zone, but looking back it was actually amazing. I read so many books and articles and I watched so many YouTube videos. I talked about it over and over and over again with my friends. When I met him I could finally translate it all into practice and I did this with succes. I'm way more confident and secure now. I know it's hard but you can't change your past. You can't change the fact that you probably hurt people. The only thing you can do right now is becoming the best version of yourself so your future relationships will be healthy. Focus on that. Best of luck! Thank you! It helps to hear your story. My dating life has already improved by leaps and bounds over the past few years, so rationally I know that I'm growing fast and it will just keep getting better. Do you think it's possible that you were AP in romantic relationships in the past because you quickly rejected anyone who didn't enable you to feel AP? |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 5, 2018 2:57:47 GMT
Gosh, I'm exactly the same as you. A total avoidant with all friends, and almost all my family too. But in relationships I'm as AP as they come. What the hell is that all about. Is it going to be double the healing to get to secure lolz. Best wishes X I did read somewhere that someone displaying both avoidant and anxious feelings/behaviors has to heal both sides, so might have more or different work to do. Same question as I asked jaleesa, is it possible that you are AP in romantic relationships because you quickly reject anyone who doesn't enable you to go into AP mode? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 3:42:54 GMT
Gosh, I'm exactly the same as you. A total avoidant with all friends, and almost all my family too. But in relationships I'm as AP as they come. What the hell is that all about. Is it going to be double the healing to get to secure lolz. Best wishes X I did read somewhere that someone displaying both avoidant and anxious feelings/behaviors has to heal both sides, so might have more or different work to do. Same question as I asked helsbells, is it possible that you are AP in romantic relationships because you quickly reject anyone who doesn't enable you to go into AP mode? Happyidiot I think you might have just hit the nail on the head my lovely. Yes I can now see how I have rejected every single suitor who I didn't go into AP mode with. But what's baffling is why would an avoidant like myself in all other relationships want to go into AP mode from the get go. The only answer I can find in myself at the moment is, it causes me distraction, it allows me to indulge in obsessive thinking and ruminating over others. This equals not having to look at myself kind of takes me out of myself or sitting with myself if that makes sense. So I need a partner I can obsessively think about as a total distraction from thinking and feeling anything else. |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 5, 2018 4:08:20 GMT
Happyidiot I think you might have just hit the nail on the head my lovely. Yes I can now see how I have rejected every single suitor who I didn't go into AP mode with. But what's baffling is why would an avoidant like myself in all other relationships want to go into AP mode from the get go. The only answer I can find in myself at the moment is, it causes me distraction, it allows me to indulge in obsessive thinking and ruminating over others. This equals not having to look at myself kind of takes me out of myself or sitting with myself if that makes sense. So I need a partner I can obsessively think about as a total distraction from thinking and feeling anything else. This is so insightful! When I have someone to obsess over, I don't need to look at my other problems. In fact, it's possible that I sometimes I actually find someone to obsess over when I especially need a distraction. I read a theory someplace that insecure attachers insecurely attach to someone who happens to be around when their attachment system is triggered by something else. My last ex, for example, I met when a friend had just died and I was already feeling generally anxious and like past pain had been stirred up. Of course he was appealing in other ways, because I'm partly secure and don't just glom onto literally anyone, but perhaps it was the combination of propinquity (someone being physically near to you and/or similar to you in interests etc) plus having something triggering my attachment issues already. In addition, what put me over the edge into feeling really AP right before our breakup was something else in my life unrelated to the relationship triggering me. Similarly, my avoidance can seem unrelated to the person I'm targeting it at. You? |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 5, 2018 4:42:52 GMT
I wonder if it's possible your ex thinks he is AP because he just thinks most people he avoided were people he "wasn't into" or who he avoided for valid reasons, and so doesn't count those experiences? I think the published descriptions of the fearful avoidant can be a bit misleading and keep people from considering it might be their style. Some are really over the top and extreme. Some make it sound like the FA is aware of what they are doing, and that they distance themselves any time they really like someone. Oh, that is absolutely why he thinks he's AP. We naturally click so well I guess he stuck around for a much longer time than usual, but it's kind of ironic that because I don't activate his anxiety, he ends up deactivating totally. He keeps cycling through losing attraction for me for reasons he doesn't understand and hopes time will just fix for him, but still wants to keep me nearby after breaking up with me... so I think it's safe to say something is off. And I've been thinking about this anyway, but especially after reading other responses in this thread, I think the problem is ultimately that he doesn't trust me. Not because of me, he just can't trust anyone. I think you're right that a lot of the descriptions are not great, and when I was calling it "anxious-avoidant" I really got lousy answers that sort of made intellectual sense but made me think that style was basically shorthand for BPD and I'd never met anyone with it! It was a black box compared to the other 3 styles. In response to some of the other comments here, I think the AP passion is in part a distraction, but I think it's also a way to create value. So in the situations where people have said there were other external non-romantic triggers while single, and then they found a person to fall for, it can provide value and a reason for being in difficult times that the insecure partner can't provide for themselves due to low self-esteem. The other responses to this thread also made wonder, for FA, if the need for the passionate "pull" to stay present in the relationship also has to do with low self-esteem for additional reasons? Like, when times are quiet and neither the anxiety nor the engulfment is activated, if the FA doesn't have a strong sense of self-esteem and agency, then can it be difficult to muster the motivation to be there for your partner? Like, you didn't receive that kind of love to model off of and kind of don't know how to be a self-starter even for your own needs, so it seems confusing and then blah and then "not right." And, going back to other threads discussing about thinking of love as a choice instead of a feeling, if you're not someone who thinks of love in that way of being a daily choice, then it's easier to get bored and bail. I'm not really going anywhere specific with this paragraph, but got curious. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 4:45:40 GMT
Happyidiot I think you might have just hit the nail on the head my lovely. Yes I can now see how I have rejected every single suitor who I didn't go into AP mode with. But what's baffling is why would an avoidant like myself in all other relationships want to go into AP mode from the get go. The only answer I can find in myself at the moment is, it causes me distraction, it allows me to indulge in obsessive thinking and ruminating over others. This equals not having to look at myself kind of takes me out of myself or sitting with myself if that makes sense. So I need a partner I can obsessively think about as a total distraction from thinking and feeling anything else. This is so insightful! When I have someone to obsess over, I don't need to look at my other problems. In fact, it's possible that I sometimes I actually find someone to obsess over when I especially need a distraction. I read a theory someplace that insecure attachers insecurely attach to someone who happens to be around when their attachment system is triggered by something else. My last ex, for example, I met when a friend had just died and I was already feeling generally anxious and like past pain had been stirred up. Of course he was appealing in other ways, because I'm partly secure and don't just glom onto literally anyone, but perhaps it was the combination of propinquity (someone being physically near to you and/or similar to you in interests etc) plus having something triggering my attachment issues already. In addition, what put me over the edge into feeling really AP right before our breakup was something else in my life unrelated to the relationship triggering me. Similarly, my avoidance can seem unrelated to the person I'm targeting it at. You? Wow again great insight on your part and something I hadn't thought of before. Before I met my current FA I was still in early bereavement after losing my husband of 28 years. My husband was an alcoholic thru most of the marriage. So as you can guess was totally distracting for me and very detrimental to my health but I was seriously attached and wasn't letting go for anything. As you can imagine losing him left a huge void in more ways than one. Mainly I was left a lone with me, and that terrified me. When I started dating again I met some lovely secures who had so much to offer including themselves in a healthy way, but I was soon to drop all off them after a couple of lovely healthy dates until bingo finally bagged myself a total FA who's opening line was you seem so caring and kind and I fear hurting you in some way. I was hooked. To say it's been a rollercoaster ride would be an understatement, why God only knows but it appears I wouldn't have it any other way 😥. That said the relationship brought me to my knees and also to this wonderful forum where I came to find out about him my fa and all his problems and all he had done to blah blah, only to find about myself and my attachment. And thanks to the brutal honest truth and wisdom of you guys especially juniper "love ya loads" on this site was told some harsh truths and if I wanted to get well keep it about me, yikes What the hell, that ment going within and focusing on my shit, that felt bloody scary but the best thing I could possibly have done. I don't know how close to secure I will ever be it's baby steps to begin with but deffo moving in the right direction and it's very liberating and starting to feel ok. I stay close to this forum to keep it real as going to my own head for answers can sometimes be dangerous and lead me astray again, being my head is full of fantasy alot of the time. So I stay close to keep it real. Thanks for your insight and I'm sending you a big hug x |
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