hannah
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by hannah on Sept 24, 2018 12:07:18 GMT
So, I was in this crazy relationship with my ex FA. Like I read in so many threads everything was great at the beginning: lots of intimacy, he was acting really caring and interested but not too much (otherwise I would feel overwhelmed). For the first time in my life I didn't have doubts about the man I was dating (I'm pretty sure I'm FA myself also). He kept saying he was not in love, I thought it was too soon anyway and his actions reassured me that we were looking for the same kind of relationship. What we had made me happy and if nothing changed it would be ok for me, I mean, I was not looking for go forward as I don't want to have children, a family and I'm not sure I want to move in with someone on day.
Buuuuuut, when he started to push away (it began with sexual withdraw), he started to rationalize all his romantic and caring behavior saying he did what he did not because he wanted to do so, but because he thought it was what I would like he did for me. This just doesn't make any sense to me! Even if it was true, when we do sometimes something that put us out of our way to please someone it's because we like/love this person, right? But as it was how he was ALWAYS acting... I doubt we can do that all the time if it's not what we want to do. He was the one pushing us to spend many time together, when we saw each other twice a week (it happened sometimes) it was him who initiated the plans, he said many times he was happy with me and it was visible on his eyes, smile... And now he says that he cannot see anyone once a week cause it's a lot (and I didn't asked for that, never did any protest behavior when he was not available if I asked to see him).
I gave up on this relationship and he doesn't want to see me again anyway, I was just asking myself if it was common, if it's an avoidant (FA/DA) thing to rationalize their behavior to not get in touch with their own needs of affection and intimacy and projecting this on their partner and them feeling overwhelmed. I'm not sure I've ever done this myself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 11:48:27 GMT
I've experienced it with a DA when he deactivates. He starts pushing me away and rationalizes everything in a way that makes no logical sense.
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Post by lilyg on Sept 25, 2018 14:30:11 GMT
Yes, it is normal, I'm so sorry you're going through this. My parter pushed me away like this while I felt he did love me. If you felt it, he did care about you. Maybe it's too soon to talk about love (I don't know how long were you together) but a special feeling was there. Or maybe it was love but it was not manageable for him. FA is.. anxiety, fear, distress... it's normal to try to reationalize something that strong. It's very confusing and we have a romantic narrative in which we think love comes and everything is perfect... when sometimes old wounds keep us from forging that connection with someone.
Well, now my partner can say and recognize that he loved me. Still, I'm pretty sure he loves me more today because we are more intimate as we work on attachment. You can see a lot of examples of rationalizing these thoughts in the forums and on Jeb's books.
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hannah
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by hannah on Sept 29, 2018 18:22:35 GMT
Thank you for your answers, it makes me feel less lonely and less crazy! It's just sad and kind of frustrating to see someone otherwise really smart act and think like that but I know it's not "really" him and that he does his best to cope with/avoid his negative feelings. Yes, it is normal, I'm so sorry you're going through this. My parter pushed me away like this while I felt he did love me. If you felt it, he did care about you. Maybe it's too soon to talk about love (I don't know how long were you together) but a special feeling was there. Or maybe it was love but it was not manageable for him. FA is.. anxiety, fear, distress... it's normal to try to reationalize something that strong. It's very confusing and we have a romantic narrative in which we think love comes and everything is perfect... when sometimes old wounds keep us from forging that connection with someone. Well, now my partner can say and recognize that he loved me. Still, I'm pretty sure he loves me more today because we are more intimate as we work on attachment. You can see a lot of examples of rationalizing these thoughts in the forums and on Jeb's books. I've followed your history on your thread and it's really inspiring, lilyg ! At the end my ex FA could acknowledge his part on our dynamic and that he was acting in a romantic way, it was already a big step I think. But then he kept saying what I wrote before so I don't have any hope he will recognize any feeling one day, he said he was not in love with his ex, so... |
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Post by lilyg on Oct 1, 2018 8:37:25 GMT
Thank you for your answers, it makes me feel less lonely and less crazy! It's just sad and kind of frustrating to see someone otherwise really smart act and think like that but I know it's not "really" him and that he does his best to cope with/avoid his negative feelings. Yes, it is normal, I'm so sorry you're going through this. My parter pushed me away like this while I felt he did love me. If you felt it, he did care about you. Maybe it's too soon to talk about love (I don't know how long were you together) but a special feeling was there. Or maybe it was love but it was not manageable for him. FA is.. anxiety, fear, distress... it's normal to try to reationalize something that strong. It's very confusing and we have a romantic narrative in which we think love comes and everything is perfect... when sometimes old wounds keep us from forging that connection with someone. Well, now my partner can say and recognize that he loved me. Still, I'm pretty sure he loves me more today because we are more intimate as we work on attachment. You can see a lot of examples of rationalizing these thoughts in the forums and on Jeb's books. I've followed your history on your thread and it's really inspiring, lilyg ! At the end my ex FA could acknowledge his part on our dynamic and that he was acting in a romantic way, it was already a big step I think. But then he kept saying what I wrote before so I don't have any hope he will recognize any feeling one day, he said he was not in love with his ex, so... Thank you  it's a start that he realises some things about his dynamics over relationships. Maybe this is another step he has to make in order to finally start making progression towards a healthier way of attaching. I'm sure he'll always cherish that from you. It's great that you were honest with him and yourself. I'm sorry you're both at different moments in your life, I can totally see myself reflected in your position. It is a sad place to be in, but I learned a lot of things from that experience. I still wouldn't wait for him, focus on your own healing and process. It's good that you see everything with clarity, it seems that you'll know what to do, trust yourself |
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Post by happyidiot on Oct 1, 2018 8:52:25 GMT
So, I was in this crazy relationship with my ex FA. Like I read in so many threads everything was great at the beginning: lots of intimacy, he was acting really caring and interested but not too much (otherwise I would feel overwhelmed). For the first time in my life I didn't have doubts about the man I was dating (I'm pretty sure I'm FA myself also). He kept saying he was not in love, I thought it was too soon anyway and his actions reassured me that we were looking for the same kind of relationship. What we had made me happy and if nothing changed it would be ok for me, I mean, I was not looking for go forward as I don't want to have children, a family and I'm not sure I want to move in with someone on day. Buuuuuut, when he started to push away (it began with sexual withdraw), he started to rationalize all his romantic and caring behavior saying he did what he did not because he wanted to do so, but because he thought it was what I would like he did for me. This just doesn't make any sense to me! Even if it was true, when we do sometimes something that put us out of our way to please someone it's because we like/love this person, right? But as it was how he was ALWAYS acting... I doubt we can do that all the time if it's not what we want to do. He was the one pushing us to spend many time together, when we saw each other twice a week (it happened sometimes) it was him who initiated the plans, he said many times he was happy with me and it was visible on his eyes, smile... And now he says that he cannot see anyone once a week cause it's a lot (and I didn't asked for that, never did any protest behavior when he was not available if I asked to see him). I gave up on this relationship and he doesn't want to see me again anyway, I was just asking myself if it was common, if it's an avoidant (FA/DA) thing to rationalize their behavior to not get in touch with their own needs of affection and intimacy and projecting this on their partner and them feeling overwhelmed. I'm not sure I've ever done this myself. Yes, this is the thing that upset me the most about my last ex breaking up with me. I felt crazy hearing him say he had only done all that sweet stuff to make me happy. We are both FA (I was feeling more AP in this relationship towards the end). But, like you, I don't think I've ever done that myself, or if I have it would have been many years ago when I was much younger, and still not to the same degree. You are doing well to see this for what it is and not be gaslit. |
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hannah
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by hannah on Oct 6, 2018 10:28:28 GMT
Yes, this is the thing that upset me the most about my last ex breaking up with me. I felt crazy hearing him say he had only done all that sweet stuff to make me happy. We are both FA (I was feeling more AP in this relationship towards the end). But, like you, I don't think I've ever done that myself, or if I have it would have been many years ago when I was much younger, and still not to the same degree. You are doing well to see this for what it is and not be gaslit. Thank you all for the encouragement. It was not easy to see this for what it was while in contact, I needed to go NC to figure it out. Otherwise I was responding to his pessimistic point of view and I didn't understand what made me feel weird about the situation. Like when he said my aproach of one specific thing didn't make him feel enthusiastic about doing that with me and I was trying to understand why he felt like that, but then I was "wait, you were actually really enthusiastic when we did that". At the end he was like that, looking to/interpreting all that we shared in this sad, negative light. |
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Post by happyidiot on Oct 7, 2018 23:17:11 GMT
Thank you all for the encouragement. It was not easy to see this for what it was while in contact, I needed to go NC to figure it out. Otherwise I was responding to his pessimistic point of view and I didn't understand what made me feel weird about the situation. Like when he said my aproach of one specific thing didn't make him feel enthusiastic about doing that with me and I was trying to understand why he felt like that, but then I was "wait, you were actually really enthusiastic when we did that". At the end he was like that, looking to/interpreting all that we shared in this sad, negative light. This breaks my heart. My ex said the same thing, that he never felt enthusiastic about things that he certainly appeared to (I know that we can put on false fronts but, really, why go to that much trouble to make someone happy if you aren't very interested?). I'm trying to take solace in the fact that when my ex did that it was probably not about me so much as it was about him convincing himself. It's much easier if the mind creates a narrative that feelings were never there and that's fine, rather than have to face that something deep inside may be wrong with the way you attach to people and causes you to shut off your feelings. Try not to take it personally, I know how hard it is. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 7, 2018 23:29:57 GMT
So, I was in this crazy relationship with my ex FA. Like I read in so many threads everything was great at the beginning: lots of intimacy, he was acting really caring and interested but not too much (otherwise I would feel overwhelmed). For the first time in my life I didn't have doubts about the man I was dating (I'm pretty sure I'm FA myself also). He kept saying he was not in love, I thought it was too soon anyway and his actions reassured me that we were looking for the same kind of relationship. What we had made me happy and if nothing changed it would be ok for me, I mean, I was not looking for go forward as I don't want to have children, a family and I'm not sure I want to move in with someone on day. Buuuuuut, when he started to push away (it began with sexual withdraw), he started to rationalize all his romantic and caring behavior saying he did what he did not because he wanted to do so, but because he thought it was what I would like he did for me. This just doesn't make any sense to me! Even if it was true, when we do sometimes something that put us out of our way to please someone it's because we like/love this person, right? But as it was how he was ALWAYS acting... I doubt we can do that all the time if it's not what we want to do. He was the one pushing us to spend many time together, when we saw each other twice a week (it happened sometimes) it was him who initiated the plans, he said many times he was happy with me and it was visible on his eyes, smile... And now he says that he cannot see anyone once a week cause it's a lot (and I didn't asked for that, never did any protest behavior when he was not available if I asked to see him). I gave up on this relationship and he doesn't want to see me again anyway, I was just asking myself if it was common, if it's an avoidant (FA/DA) thing to rationalize their behavior to not get in touch with their own needs of affection and intimacy and projecting this on their partner and them feeling overwhelmed. I'm not sure I've ever done this myself. And....my FA ex boyfriend ONLY want to be physical with me and I’ve been physically intimate with him in an attempt to meet him where he is emotionally and hopefully bring us back together...but to no avail. He’s still shut down and withdrawn with walls fully activated. He only feels safe and able to meet his needs and mine in this way but I want more. I’m thinking time to withdraw and go silent so he can live with his choice. I feel like I’m now enabling him and possibly weaning him off me instead of bringing us back. Thoughts? |
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hannah
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by hannah on Oct 9, 2018 20:18:04 GMT
Thank you all for the encouragement. It was not easy to see this for what it was while in contact, I needed to go NC to figure it out. Otherwise I was responding to his pessimistic point of view and I didn't understand what made me feel weird about the situation. Like when he said my aproach of one specific thing didn't make him feel enthusiastic about doing that with me and I was trying to understand why he felt like that, but then I was "wait, you were actually really enthusiastic when we did that". At the end he was like that, looking to/interpreting all that we shared in this sad, negative light. This breaks my heart. My ex said the same thing, that he never felt enthusiastic about things that he certainly appeared to (I know that we can put on false fronts but, really, why go to that much trouble to make someone happy if you aren't very interested?). I'm trying to take solace in the fact that when my ex did that it was probably not about me so much as it was about him convincing himself. It's much easier if the mind creates a narrative that feelings were never there and that's fine, rather than have to face that something deep inside may be wrong with the way you attach to people and causes you to shut off your feelings. Try not to take it personally, I know how hard it is. Yes, I agree with you that it's easier to him to think like that even though it's probably an unconscious reaction, I think he is really not self aware about many things. I don't take things personally but in a way this is harder to think like this. I mean if I knew he didn't like me it could maybe be easier to move on. I'm so sad that he decided to make a fear-based decision and not try to work on this with me - he is aware of that cause he said he was running away. But I can understand his feeling at the same time, since I sometimes act like that with men. |
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hannah
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by hannah on Oct 9, 2018 20:33:53 GMT
So, I was in this crazy relationship with my ex FA. Like I read in so many threads everything was great at the beginning: lots of intimacy, he was acting really caring and interested but not too much (otherwise I would feel overwhelmed). For the first time in my life I didn't have doubts about the man I was dating (I'm pretty sure I'm FA myself also). He kept saying he was not in love, I thought it was too soon anyway and his actions reassured me that we were looking for the same kind of relationship. What we had made me happy and if nothing changed it would be ok for me, I mean, I was not looking for go forward as I don't want to have children, a family and I'm not sure I want to move in with someone on day. Buuuuuut, when he started to push away (it began with sexual withdraw), he started to rationalize all his romantic and caring behavior saying he did what he did not because he wanted to do so, but because he thought it was what I would like he did for me. This just doesn't make any sense to me! Even if it was true, when we do sometimes something that put us out of our way to please someone it's because we like/love this person, right? But as it was how he was ALWAYS acting... I doubt we can do that all the time if it's not what we want to do. He was the one pushing us to spend many time together, when we saw each other twice a week (it happened sometimes) it was him who initiated the plans, he said many times he was happy with me and it was visible on his eyes, smile... And now he says that he cannot see anyone once a week cause it's a lot (and I didn't asked for that, never did any protest behavior when he was not available if I asked to see him). I gave up on this relationship and he doesn't want to see me again anyway, I was just asking myself if it was common, if it's an avoidant (FA/DA) thing to rationalize their behavior to not get in touch with their own needs of affection and intimacy and projecting this on their partner and them feeling overwhelmed. I'm not sure I've ever done this myself. And....my FA ex boyfriend ONLY want to be physical with me and I’ve been physically intimate with him in an attempt to meet him where he is emotionally and hopefully bring us back together...but to no avail. He’s still shut down and withdrawn with walls fully activated. He only feels safe and able to meet his needs and mine in this way but I want more. I’m thinking time to withdraw and go silent so he can live with his choice. I feel like I’m now enabling him and possibly weaning him off me instead of bringing us back. Thoughts? Mine started to withdraw physically but at the end he was withdrawing emotionally as well. Well, it was full of mixed messages, really crazy making. If you are not happy with the situation it's maybe better to try to move on. I regret not being able to do so when he started the pushing away but I didn't know about attachment styles at this time and I was really triggered by him. I still am. We are not seeing each other since many weeks and it's still ups and downs. But I think that with the distance it's easier to calm down, since the other is not there triggering us. Even if I'm sad that we are no longer in touch I think it's better to not wear out our relationship at this point, if he decides to give it another try some day in the futur. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 9, 2018 21:46:36 GMT
And....my FA ex boyfriend ONLY want to be physical with me and I’ve been physically intimate with him in an attempt to meet him where he is emotionally and hopefully bring us back together...but to no avail. He’s still shut down and withdrawn with walls fully activated. He only feels safe and able to meet his needs and mine in this way but I want more. I’m thinking time to withdraw and go silent so he can live with his choice. I feel like I’m now enabling him and possibly weaning him off me instead of bringing us back. Thoughts? Mine started to withdraw physically but at the end he was withdrawing emotionally as well. Well, it was full of mixed messages, really crazy making. If you are not happy with the situation it's maybe better to try to move on. I regret not being able to do so when he started the pushing away but I didn't know about attachment styles at this time and I was really triggered by him. I still am. We are not seeing each other since many weeks and it's still ups and downs. But I think that with the distance it's easier to calm down, since the other is not there triggering us. Even if I'm sad that we are no longer in touch I think it's better to not wear out our relationship at this point, if he decides to give it another try some day in the futur. Hey there, yes I agree as a recovering anxious, he definitely triggers me with his pulling away and I also wish I would’ve had the strength to let go when he started to pull away and then broke up with me. I probably would be more attractive to him too if I just let go then rather continued to see him on his terms and occasionally show some protest behavior. It’s very difficult and frustrating for me to go from his girlfriend to a casual side that he sees twice a month. I feel the same way you do now. I haven’t reached out since last week- which is long for me. I feel the best place for me to heal and without being triggered is away from him. I also agree, if we are to ever have another chance in the future, I don’t want to wear us out, and display unhappy, frustrated behavior... and I don’t want to be set back in all the progress I’ve made. I have the impulse to reach out, but overall, I’m happier away from him. The warm/cold treatment is too hurtful to me. I wish you the very best in your journey 💗 |
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Post by happyidiot on Oct 14, 2018 9:24:39 GMT
Yes, I agree with you that it's easier to him to think like that even though it's probably an unconscious reaction, I think he is really not self aware about many things. I don't take things personally but in a way this is harder to think like this. I mean if I knew he didn't like me it could maybe be easier to move on. I'm so sad that he decided to make a fear-based decision and not try to work on this with me - he is aware of that cause he said he was running away. But I can understand his feeling at the same time, since I sometimes act like that with men. It is the same as "not liking you" in practical terms. It likely feels indistinguishable to him. That's one thing that helped me towards moving on from my ex, realizing that he probably fully believed what he was saying. If someone doesn't want to be with you it doesn't actually make a difference if it's because they are avoidant who's scared of love or if they are a secure who just thinks you aren't right for them, they still don't want to be with you. I don't think there are a ton of avoidants deactivating that hard from someone and realizing that is what's going on and it wasn't that they fell out of love or never loved you, aside from maybe some on this forum who've learned a lot about their attachment wounds. If someone says they didn't have feelings and just did a bunch of nice stuff to please you, believe that that is what they think is true. Also, maybe it can be easier to move on if you realize he probably did care for you but he just doesn't realize it since he had a sad childhood, because the alternative is to believe you are crazy and imagined he cared when he never did. To me, that seems harder to move on from because then I feel like I can't trust myself to know if someone likes me and can't trust anyone's actions. Maybe it doesn't necessarily make it easier to let go of that person, but it makes it easier to open to a new person and to be less hard on yourself. |
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hannah
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by hannah on Oct 14, 2018 10:02:42 GMT
I wish you the best also faithopelove How are you feeling these days ? |
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hannah
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by hannah on Oct 14, 2018 10:14:02 GMT
Yes, I agree with you that it's easier to him to think like that even though it's probably an unconscious reaction, I think he is really not self aware about many things. I don't take things personally but in a way this is harder to think like this. I mean if I knew he didn't like me it could maybe be easier to move on. I'm so sad that he decided to make a fear-based decision and not try to work on this with me - he is aware of that cause he said he was running away. But I can understand his feeling at the same time, since I sometimes act like that with men. It is the same as "not liking you" in practical terms. It likely feels indistinguishable to him. That's one thing that helped me towards moving on from my ex, realizing that he probably fully believed what he was saying. If someone doesn't want to be with you it doesn't actually make a difference if it's because they are avoidant who's scared of love or if they are a secure who just thinks you aren't right for them, they still don't want to be with you. I don't think there are a ton of avoidants deactivating that hard from someone and realizing that is what's going on and it wasn't that they fell out of love or never loved you, aside from maybe some on this forum who've learned a lot about their attachment wounds. If someone says they didn't have feelings and just did a bunch of nice stuff to please you, believe that that is what they think is true. Also, maybe it can be easier to move on if you realize he probably did care for you but he just doesn't realize it since he had a sad childhood, because the alternative is to believe you are crazy and imagined he cared when he never did. To me, that seems harder to move on from because then I feel like I can't trust myself to know if someone likes me and can't trust anyone's actions. Maybe it doesn't necessarily make it easier to let go of that person, but it makes it easier to open to a new person and to be less hard on yourself. Well, even if I see the point I don't see the point of "in pratical terms this doesn't change anything" ! I mean, I can see that but I can't think/feel like that. About your second point, yes, as a FA myself it could be easier for me to fall into a lack of trust in myself and others saying that I can't believe my intuition and that I can't trust anyone's actions neither. So I'm glad that I'm not doing that, I think it's a progress to me. I don't blame him, I don't blame myself. I'm just sad, that's all. It still hurts but less and less. I'm at the point where I can figure to myself that the pain will end someday, so I allow me to cry knowing that it will stop at some point in the futur. I'm also kind of interested in someone, it's maybe helping me to move on even if I don't know yet if it's only about projections (my mind trying to rescue me from pain) but I think that if it helps me to forget my FA it doesn't matter if it's real or not. |
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it's a start that he realises some things about his dynamics over relationships. Maybe this is another step he has to make in order to finally start making progression towards a healthier way of attaching. I'm sure he'll always cherish that from you. It's great that you were honest with him and yourself. I'm sorry you're both at different moments in your life, I can totally see myself reflected in your position. It is a sad place to be in, but I learned a lot of things from that experience.
