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Post by goldilocks on Sept 30, 2018 18:13:51 GMT
In my opinion, emotional availability is frst and foremost to my own feelings. Am I open and present to reeive them and learn what they have to say?
Intimacy begins, in my opinion with being intimate with my whole self and because this is helpful not only in relation to others but also within solitude, I find it useful to work on.
Also in Mary's thread, we mentioned sensing and distinguishing emotions as apath to intuition and trust in ourselves and others. These help us be self assured and protect us from getting harmed, again, very useful even when just dealing with friends, career, life.
Being emotionally available to myself and my friends has brought me so much satisfaction. My capacity for social interaction has also increased.
With greater capacity to be with others, more self assurance and more trust in myself and others, I do have more desire to have a romantic and sexual relationship.
In my opinion for dismissive it is extra important to work on oneself first; healing our hurts and building the skills that are universally useful. Otherwise we are not that motivated to work on relationship skills because we do not need one. Once we have healed the lionshare of childhood hurts, trust in others increases and we have good experiences with friendships, we have fewer barriers to express our desire for love.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2018 18:56:41 GMT
well said goldilocks. i am taking some time to sit be with my kids and in the stillness but i will be back to add more later i think. i need some rest!  |
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Post by ocarina on Sept 30, 2018 20:42:09 GMT
In my opinion, emotional availability is frst and foremost to my own feelings. Am I open and present to reeive them and learn what they have to say? Intimacy begins, in my opinion with being intimate with my whole self and because this is helpful not only in relation to others but also within solitude, I find it useful to work on. Also in Mary's thread, we mentioned sensing and distinguishing emotions as apath to intuition and trust in ourselves and others. These help us be self assured and protect us from getting harmed, again, very useful even when just dealing with friends, career, life. Being emotionally available to myself and my friends has brought me so much satisfaction. My capacity for social interaction has also increased. With greater capacity to be with others, more self assurance and more trust in myself and others, I do have more desire to have a romantic and sexual relationship. In my opinion for dismissive it is extra important to work on oneself first; healing our hurts and building the skills that are universally useful. Otherwise we are not that motivated to work on relationship skills because we do not need one. Once we have healed the lionshare of childhood hurts, trust in others increases and we have good experiences with friendships, we have fewer barriers to express our desire for love. Yes - I get it thanks Goldilocks - and am I open to my feelings? I would have to say that in the past i was something of an android - pretty much apparently emotionless even to myself. It was a default mode, a way of getting through life learnt in a painful and complex to navigate childhood where loving parenting was absent and it kept me safe and out of trouble. I am learning now - although there are some emotions I am better at recognising and sitting with than others. I know this is my path - I have been circling round it and dipping in and out for some time now and I know that not being able to be consistently present with feelings or to recognise and share them appropriately has resulted in me turning to a wide variety of avoidance strategies most of which have wasted time and energy and actually blocked my creation of a better life. I do meditate regularly and it's immensely helpful in maintaining a calm emotional state but I often veer on avoiding the emotional state all together by meditating past it if you see what I mean! Plenty to learn and I am excited for the future. o |
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Post by ocarina on Sept 30, 2018 20:44:21 GMT
well said goldilocks . i am taking some time to sit be with my kids and in the stillness but i will be back to add more later i think. i need some rest! Me too Juniper - I hope your rest is found. Very often I have ignored my physical needs - like fatigue and exhaustion and powered on regardless. I guess that's all part learning to be more in tune with feelings both emotional and physical. |
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Post by goldilocks on Oct 1, 2018 4:58:27 GMT
Yes - I get it thanks Goldilocks - and am I open to my feelings? I would have to say that in the past i was something of an android - pretty much apparently emotionless even to myself. It was a default mode, a way of getting through life learnt in a painful and complex to navigate childhood where loving parenting was absent and it kept me safe and out of trouble. I am learning now - although there are some emotions I am better at recognising and sitting with than others. I know this is my path - I have been circling round it and dipping in and out for some time now and I know that not being able to be consistently present with feelings or to recognise and share them appropriately has resulted in me turning to a wide variety of avoidance strategies most of which have wasted time and energy and actually blocked my creation of a better life. I do meditate regularly and it's immensely helpful in maintaining a calm emotional state but I often veer on avoiding the emotional state all together by meditating past it if you see what I mean!Plenty to learn and I am excited for the future. Could this be related to the type of meditation you do or your approach to meditation. Imagine a fish bowl, full of colourful fish representing several emotions. You could look at the fish and will them to be calm, you could look at each fish, noting its colour and shape or you could realise you are the observer, witnessing the fish. You could feel into each fish, starting with the blue fish of fear, feeling the fear. You could relax while feeling that fear, opening yourself to it. You could relax as the fear. You could do all of these or something entirely different. Would you explain within this metaphor what your process is like? |
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Post by goldilocks on Oct 1, 2018 5:03:03 GMT
well said goldilocks . i am taking some time to sit be with my kids and in the stillness but i will be back to add more later i think. i need some rest! Me too Juniper - I hope your rest is found. Very often I have ignored my physical needs - like fatigue and exhaustion and powered on regardless. I guess that's all part learning to be more in tune with feelings both emotional and physical. What would you have to give up in order to feel your body and feelings? What would you have to give up if you could not skip lunch and continue to work because you felt hunger and the need to relax? How has powering on been helpful for you? Can you feel gratitude for your ability to power on? Is it still necessary to power on? If so, what adjustments need to be made to no longer have to power on so you can feel your feelings? |
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Post by ocarina on Oct 1, 2018 16:44:32 GMT
Meditation for me, using the coloured fish metaphor, the fish swirl around and as I focus on the breath - or the mantra of whatever, I begin to notice the fish as a dispassionate observer, notice the feelings in my body, see the fish come and go and their effect on bodily sensation. The fish, with time become shoals passing in the background, like waves over the top of a calm, deep, relaxed sea. The fish - or the emotions, are just sensations or thought formations that come and then disperse.
This has been a great way of dealing with emotions in the past - but it almost bypasses the emotional state if you see what I mean - so that I can spend a lot of time as an observer just noticing rather than really getting caught up in the feeling.
I do think I am not hugely emotionally available - this doesn't make me uncaring about others or unable to engage on any level but it does mean I need to go searching for my emotions in a way that is unusual for many people. I may well be on the autistic spectrum - and I suspect my partner is the same which may explain why some of this work is so challenging for both of us.
With time though I have realised how important in terms of both physical and mental health, it is to be gentle with my body and my mind - eating food that makes me feel well, exercising enough, sleeping enough. I am grateful for my resilience but also nowadays able to say enough is enough - at least usually. I have adjusted my work schedule recently to allow for this and am practicing allowing feelings to come and go with compassion for the experience rather than just pushing them away as irrelevant.
My partner and I have something of a parallel process here - when he found himself feeling love for the first time, very recently, it really was a big breakthrough and I have noticed real profound changes in his way of being since we've been together.
Thanks for your input Goldilocks
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Post by goldilocks on Oct 1, 2018 16:51:18 GMT
Meditation for me, using the coloured fish metaphor, the fish swirl around and as I focus on the breath - or the mantra of whatever, I begin to notice the fish as a dispassionate observer, notice the feelings in my body, see the fish come and go and their effect on bodily sensation. The fish, with time become shoals passing in the background, like waves over the top of a calm, deep, relaxed sea. The fish - or the emotions, are just sensations or thought formations that come and then disperse. This has been a great way of dealing with emotions in the past - but it almost bypasses the emotional state if you see what I mean - so that I can spend a lot of time as an observer just noticing rather than really getting caught up in the feeling.I do think I am not hugely emotionally available - this doesn't make me uncaring about others or unable to engage on any level but it does mean I need to go searching for my emotions in a way that is unusual for many people. I may well be on the autistic spectrum - and I suspect my partner is the same which may explain why some of this work is so challenging for both of us. With time though I have realised how important in terms of both physical and mental health, it is to be gentle with my body and my mind - eating food that makes me feel well, exercising enough, sleeping enough. I am grateful for my resilience but also nowadays able to say enough is enough - at least usually. I have adjusted my work schedule recently to allow for this and am practicing allowing feelings to come and go with compassion for the experience rather than just pushing them away as irrelevant. My partner and I have something of a parallel process here - when he found himself feeling love for the first time, very recently, it really was a big breakthrough and I have noticed real profound changes in his way of being since we've been together. Thanks for your input Goldilocks Would you like to try different approaches? Would you feel safe doing so? It sounds like you have made a lot of progress in lifestyle and intrapersonal skill aswell as relationship skill! This is beautiful :-) |
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Post by ocarina on Oct 1, 2018 18:04:22 GMT
I would try different approaches and feel safe doing so - yes very open to suggestions!
Progress has been huge in the last few years - I can only really notice that when I look back at my former self. Life is good now.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 21:05:41 GMT
I would try different approaches and feel safe doing so - yes very open to suggestions! Progress has been huge in the last few years - I can only really notice that when I look back at my former self. Life is good now. ocarina, when i meditate i first calm my body with breathing, and then i turn my attention to the emotions that are present in me. so say i have sadness, a deep ache, a wrenching pain- i don't separate myself from it, i hold it in my hands and feel the heaviness of it. i say to all my ancestors, whom i imagine standing around me, and i can se their faces, all united to help me: " this is my pain, this our pain, the pain have felt, over and over again. i am here to transform it, and i need your help. i need the wisest, and most loving and compassionate of you to come forward and help me heal. Help me understand the root of it, and give me the wisdom to take care of it. I need the support of your love." i deal with anything this way. i take everything out, piece by piece, to acknowledge it and ask for help. this has been an amazing practice. even just breathing, feeling the weight, and knowing i am not alone but supported by the wisdom of many generations, helps me. i cry with them and feel it, i let all of us feel it and touch it and i don't try to push it away. it really is a powerful visualization and peace does come, answers come, insight comes. |
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Post by goldilocks on Oct 1, 2018 21:19:39 GMT
I would try different approaches and feel safe doing so - yes very open to suggestions! Progress has been huge in the last few years - I can only really notice that when I look back at my former self. Life is good now. You rock! What I do is find a song that suits the emotion, and express my emotion to that song in dance. But any movement would be helpful; a walk, a swim, cycling. Oow... or boxing if you feel anger! |
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Post by leavethelighton on Oct 2, 2018 1:52:12 GMT
Let me just say, I love love love this thread. I think about these sorts of questions a lot-- at what point is trust irrevocably lost, where are the edges of hope, what could it take to regain it, etc. There are people I would like back in my life, but I am unsure how one could establish that there is a real shot at history NOT repeating itself. I do think at a certain point the options are to just be permanently done with a relationship, or to be completely open about discussing the challenges, because any other in-between state would be prone to falling into versions of relating that would lead to history repeating itself.
You asked about emotional intimacy.
I think part of the wish is to have relationships where people can share what they think and feel without having to worry they'd be rejected; there isn't a need to walk on eggshells, or leave elephants in the room, or to speak in euphemisms. There would be trust that even if problems occur, or people get hurt, the core of the bond would continue-- neither member is going to retreat forever and vanish into the night, maybe there'd be no retreating, or at least it wouldn't be permanent retreat. I've been thinking lately that by sticking it out in my marriage for 15 years we've gotten closer to this than I've had before with other people.
But I do want to get closer to that with my sister. After she did some things that I've felt hurt about and rejected by in ways that I just can't shake off, and finding myself wanting to distance myself/disassociate and enter a permanent state of relationship superficiality and disengagement, I decided to actually just tell her what I felt hurt about. I decided to try to find out more about her side of things, even though I predicted she'd be dismissive. It's like what Juniper (I think) wrote above about recognizing when one is distancing one's self for self protection and then instead choosing to reach out. Over the past few months in particular I have been working on getting better at this, particularly with biological family. Whenever I feel that "I'm done trying" feeling I try in a new or different way.
The outcome with trying to do this with my sister has been mixed, but I'm glad I did it. At first I felt like her response involved a bit of gaslighting as she seemed to not even remember the situations that were hurtful to me, then admitted to vaguely remembering the various conversations. And she looked back at our old correspondences to trace the situation. I was able to gain some insight into how I view things compared to how she view things. For example, I wrote her a particularly real and authentic email about my life a year ago and she never responded to it, and that made me feel like she was rejecting who I really am, that she wants me to be someone different or that she can't handle the real me. Her explanation was that she agreed with everything I wrote and so didn't recognize a need for further discussion or response. Perhaps the reality is more complex, but it can be helpful to find out more about the ways in which two people are or are not on the same page.
Now the ball is in my court.
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Post by ocarina on Oct 2, 2018 16:44:38 GMT
Juniper I absolutely love your meditation idea - I did it last night around sadness and fear and it brought up alot of emotion - and an amazing feeling of love and support and non aloneness if you see what I mean.
This will definitely become part of my regular practice.
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Post by ocarina on Oct 2, 2018 16:52:12 GMT
It is amazing how often insecurity and a period of disquiet comes before a further period of growth and insight.
Having sat quietly with my dilemmas for a while now, I awoke to a much greater feeling of clarity on what I want and need from any relationship, a partner who can meet me half way and have the courage to explore their own feelings and share them whilst also allowing me to share honestly of myself. It's the glimpses of this in the past that I have been so wanting to recreate but i didn't really recognise this. So all of my chatterings about need for this or that really boils down to this at heart and it's a rare thing. So often with an anxious partner there has been some kind of sharing but I feel manipulated by the others needs - and with a dismissive I feel alone and unheard. The great thing is that I suspect that when I reach my own set point of intimacy and ability to give and receive love, I think the "need" will disappear and be replaced by a secure understanding of what will work for me in a relationship - nothing short of two partners willing to give of themselves in all ways and committing to the process however challenging.
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Post by ocarina on Oct 2, 2018 18:18:17 GMT
I would try different approaches and feel safe doing so - yes very open to suggestions! Progress has been huge in the last few years - I can only really notice that when I look back at my former self. Life is good now. You rock! What I do is find a song that suits the emotion, and express my emotion to that song in dance. But any movement would be helpful; a walk, a swim, cycling. Oow... or boxing if you feel anger! I will give it a go - limiting factor for the moment is that with lots of children at home my meditation takes place in a silent early morning environment! Maybe silent dancing.... or certainly and aggressive run or cycle. Swimming tends to be very calm and rhythmic which has the same effect on the nervous system unless it's a rough sea in which case it's verging on fear! |
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