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Post by ocarina on Oct 2, 2018 18:22:37 GMT
Let me just say, I love love love this thread. I think about these sorts of questions a lot-- at what point is trust irrevocably lost, where are the edges of hope, what could it take to regain it, etc. There are people I would like back in my life, but I am unsure how one could establish that there is a real shot at history NOT repeating itself. I do think at a certain point the options are to just be permanently done with a relationship, or to be completely open about discussing the challenges, because any other in-between state would be prone to falling into versions of relating that would lead to history repeating itself. You asked about emotional intimacy. I think part of the wish is to have relationships where people can share what they think and feel without having to worry they'd be rejected; there isn't a need to walk on eggshells, or leave elephants in the room, or to speak in euphemisms. There would be trust that even if problems occur, or people get hurt, the core of the bond would continue-- neither member is going to retreat forever and vanish into the night, maybe there'd be no retreating, or at least it wouldn't be permanent retreat. I've been thinking lately that by sticking it out in my marriage for 15 years we've gotten closer to this than I've had before with other people. But I do want to get closer to that with my sister. After she did some things that I've felt hurt about and rejected by in ways that I just can't shake off, and finding myself wanting to distance myself/disassociate and enter a permanent state of relationship superficiality and disengagement, I decided to actually just tell her what I felt hurt about. I decided to try to find out more about her side of things, even though I predicted she'd be dismissive. It's like what Juniper (I think) wrote above about recognizing when one is distancing one's self for self protection and then instead choosing to reach out. Over the past few months in particular I have been working on getting better at this, particularly with biological family. Whenever I feel that "I'm done trying" feeling I try in a new or different way. The outcome with trying to do this with my sister has been mixed, but I'm glad I did it. At first I felt like her response involved a bit of gaslighting as she seemed to not even remember the situations that were hurtful to me, then admitted to vaguely remembering the various conversations. And she looked back at our old correspondences to trace the situation. I was able to gain some insight into how I view things compared to how she view things. For example, I wrote her a particularly real and authentic email about my life a year ago and she never responded to it, and that made me feel like she was rejecting who I really am, that she wants me to be someone different or that she can't handle the real me. Her explanation was that she agreed with everything I wrote and so didn't recognize a need for further discussion or response. Perhaps the reality is more complex, but it can be helpful to find out more about the ways in which two people are or are not on the same page. Now the ball is in my court. I have the same situation with my mother - years of neglect and abuse from her have left me very dismissive and it is incredibly difficult to change this pattern - much easier in the less intense relationships I have with close friends and my partner. I do believe though that our behaviours don't really have to depend on the others response, we need to be receptive not reactive and walk our own journey. Our families histories are scattered with pain and suffering and often with unawareness and to expect something of them once we are adult is leading to more pain and suffering of our own. Sometimes wishing them well is the only thing to be done. I think as long as our own truth is honored we need to let go of the need for others to be a certain way. Easier said than done of course. Good luck with your situation - I think you are right, stick to your own side of the net! |
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Post by goldilocks on Oct 2, 2018 18:41:00 GMT
You rock! What I do is find a song that suits the emotion, and express my emotion to that song in dance. But any movement would be helpful; a walk, a swim, cycling. Oow... or boxing if you feel anger! I will give it a go - limiting factor for the moment is that with lots of children at home my meditation takes place in a silent early morning environment! Maybe silent dancing.... or certainly and aggressive run or cycle. Swimming tends to be very calm and rhythmic which has the same effect on the nervous system unless it's a rough sea in which case it's verging on fear! Sounds like a good plan! |
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Post by ocarina on Oct 6, 2018 18:47:24 GMT
It seems to be working - I have been feeling more"open" than I can ever remember - more whole, more me. I have been practising the meditation asking my wise ancestors for support with whatever the difficult feeling and it feels so loving - and Goldilocks, I sung this morning (in a concert with a small group of others) and I could feel the emotions flooding into the music in a way that made it amazing to experience.
The other thing that has helped is when something difficult comes up, to actually pause before acting and anchor in the breath and body and THEN make a choice of action. I think this came from The Happiness Trap which is a book I found really helpful - there also an online resource.
The huge huge relief in all of this is the freedom it's given me in my relationship, to feel but to distance myself from the mental chatter making up stories about the future and the past.
My partner has had a traumatic event involving his daughter in the last few days and for the first time ever has asked for support - and it was such a pleasure to be able to offer it! I feel bedazzled by the closeness - in a good way and feel a real sense of joy. I have communicated my fears - and my belief that for our togetherness to work in the long term we both need to be willing to sit with whatever comes up when the worst demons have been released. I asked him about his worse demons - the things that make relationships difficult for him and he admitted to fear of the "forever" - but conversely a fear of the "not forever".
He has also expressed a willingness and hope that whilst we are the same people as previously, he feels able to make small behaviour changes in order to strengthen our togetherness. He know's I have some reticence but despite this I am able to be totally open and vulnerable in expressing myself which is really really good.
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Post by ocarina on Nov 15, 2018 22:04:22 GMT
So some way down the line and we have hit a major bump in the road - life outside the relationship has been hectic for me - with my many children and a work life which is challenging also, I am finding it almost impossible to fit around my DA partners need to organise everything around his own schedule and at the last minute.
Communication has dropped off and to be honest I am feeling disinclined at the moment to commit to something which feels lacking in real intimacy. In the past I was so accepting of his needs that I did make room for him in my life - and tolerated distance just to keep him there. At the moment I feel no longer interested in this kind of half way house relationship. I know if I allow myself to become more involved there will inevitably be pain and disappointment when he doesn't show up and I just don't want that. Not only do I not want that, I feel a loss of attraction to him as a result.
Maybe this is a kind of deactivation - but I know that I need consistency in a relationship - consistency, compassion, openness and kindness. I can feel myself shutting down because it's an effort to be the one doing all the work here - I no longer want or need to be that person.
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Post by ocarina on Nov 15, 2018 22:11:08 GMT
I know that part of his distance is likely to come from a feeling of rejection - but in all honesty I have needed to take things slowly here, to see how things pan out after so much hurt in the past. I have communicated my fear - together with a practical request for a little more forward planning to fit round a busy life. I am not sure that this is something he can bring to the relationship.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 22:51:35 GMT
So some way down the line and we have hit a major bump in the road - life outside the relationship has been hectic for me - with my many children and a work life which is challenging also, I am finding it almost impossible to fit around my DA partners need to organise everything around his own schedule and at the last minute. Communication has dropped off and to be honest I am feeling disinclined at the moment to commit to something which feels lacking in real intimacy. In the past I was so accepting of his needs that I did make room for him in my life - and tolerated distance just to keep him there. At the moment I feel no longer interested in this kind of half way house relationship. I know if I allow myself to become more involved there will inevitably be pain and disappointment when he doesn't show up and I just don't want that. Not only do I not want that, I feel a loss of attraction to him as a result. Maybe this is a kind of deactivation - but I know that I need consistency in a relationship - consistency, compassion, openness and kindness. I can feel myself shutting down because it's an effort to be the one doing all the work here - I no longer want or need to be that person. I came to a very similar realization in my last relationship. Those are very important needs. For me, I really missed having compassion and kindness and it's something I won't overlook next time. Being aware of your needs is so important and I'm happy you are thinking of it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 12:38:55 GMT
ah ocarina, i've been there. i think it's part of the growth process, not a deactivation. you're outgrowing something that's become too limiting, too uncomfortable. the beautiful flowering vine has outgrown the pot. this is the very process i just have gone through, and i was able to say both to myself and my former partner , this is not enough. i love you, i love me, but we don't love the same way. i want to find someone who can love like i do, be there through thick and thin, show up every day because every day is the only day i have! be there. i let him go with lots of tenderness in my heart for him. we still talk and it's good, the whole thing has been healing as a matter of fact. right after i declared my intention for my intimate relationship with NO BUTS, NO IF'S or HOPEFULLY's, but with a solid conviction that i can create that and live it, around the corner came a man who checks all my boxes and more. we are building together. i feel satisfied. it doesn't always happen like that, so soon... but trust that it can. but i believe with everything in me you have to let go in order to receive something more. i'm not at all telling you what to do- but i am empathizing and encouraging you not to settle and to see that perhaps you deactivate not because that's just what you do, but you have a reason. that reason would be , a threat to the relationship. that threat is, his non-involvement. deactivation can be a reaction to intuition. it can be a reaction to the internal voice that rightfully says... i'm not safe here. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 15:16:33 GMT
"deactivation can be a reaction to intuition.
it can be a reaction to the internal voice that rightfully says... i'm not safe here."
Yes, there were too many times in the past that I second guessed my deactivation. I overrode it thinking I was just reacting out of my attachment style. In the end, I wish I had paid more attention to my reactions. Looking back, they were reactions because there were legitimate reasons to have that reaction. I wasn't safe. I learned, but wish I had learned sooner.
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Post by ocarina on Nov 16, 2018 23:03:22 GMT
Juniper and Mary - you are both right. This is a kind of deactivation on my front but for a reason. I feel that this relationship is now keeping me in some kind of holding pattern - in the same way that being over busy prevents me from actually sitting with needs and feelings. It is keeping me in my state of emotional unavailability.
Early on I really thought we had this - but the distance returned as it always had and I am no longer in a position to accept or ignore this in an intimate relationship. This recognition is bringing all kinds of feelings with it - of not wanting to hurt him, not wanting to challenge the equilibrium or rock the boat. I would rather now, that things just faded away, but I know this is not acceptable - that I have chosen the path of honesty integrity and communication both for myself and in my relationships. I hope we can remain close friends as his companionship is a very wonderful thing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 23:09:46 GMT
Juniper and Mary - you are both right. This is a kind of deactivation on my front but for a reason. I feel that this relationship is now keeping me in some kind of holding pattern - in the same way that being over busy prevents me from actually sitting with needs and feelings. It is keeping me in my state of emotional unavailability. Early on I really thought we had this - but the distance returned as it always had and I am no longer in a position to accept or ignore this in an intimate relationship. This recognition is bringing all kinds of feelings with it - of not wanting to hurt him, not wanting to challenge the equilibrium or rock the boat. I would rather now, that things just faded away, but I know this is not acceptable - that I have chosen the path of honesty integrity and communication both for myself and in my relationships. I hope we can remain close friends as his companionship is a very wonderful thing. it's so incredible how our situations have kind of reflected each other. it was a wrenching decision to let my previous relationship go, and the conversation was difficult and painful and sad. of course at the time i had no clue that i was about to receive something better from a man i've known a couple of years.... so i was purely letting go with openness to the loss and to change and to a new standard for my intimate relationships. there was no bitterness whatsoever, and i did need to grieve some. i could have written everything you wrote. and i hope you can remain friends also. i feel so good knowing that the place of care and respect that my previous partner and i came to is stable and stands the test of moving on. i will always cherish the very special chapter that he filled. it grew me so much. hugs to you during this bittersweet, sad realization . |
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Post by goldilocks on Nov 18, 2018 19:42:17 GMT
Hugs to you, Ocarina!
Take good care of yourself, sleeping in, going for a swim and sitting with your feelings.
Some people are better as friends than in a love relationship.
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