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Post by happyidiot on Oct 6, 2018 0:56:05 GMT
How can an FA or DA tell the difference between not feeling attracted to someone/having feelings for them and deactivation? Is there even a practical difference? Attraction and romantic feelings are foggy subjective things, it's not something you can even really quantify, you just feel them or you don't, so if your deactivation manifests by suppressing these things, maybe it just feels the same as it would feel for anyone else who "isn't into" someone..?
I'm asking because since I realized I am FA I keep wondering if people I'm kind of inexplicably not attracted to or "not feeling it" for may be people I just am deactivating from early on. I suspect this could be the case because how is it possible that I am attracted to SO few people. Before even realizing I was FA I had gotten somewhat decent at recognizing and not focussing on or acting on my deactivation when I was already attracted to someone and the deactivation was inconsistent, even though I didn't yet know there was a name for it. But now I'm wondering if I'm deactivating right from the moment I meet certain people who seem like people I "should" be attracted to. Should I be giving those people more of a chance? Is there anything I can do to increase my attraction? Or am I just "not into" them and never will be? Does it matter?
If there is anyone reading wondering what deactivation is, it's when someone on the avoidant spectrum thinks, feels or does things to block intimacy. Deactivating strategies are mental processes by which the person convinces themselves that being alone is just as good or better than being in the relationship (if there isn't a "relationship" yet replace that with dating or friendship or whatever). It's a response to a perceived threat, either the threat of too much closeness or not enough closeness/the perceived potential for rejection. For someone high in avoidance or an FA when their avoidant side is activated (the threat of not enough closeness might cause an FA to either act AP or avoidantly deactivate), you can respond to these perceived threats with deactivating, by doing things like thinking you aren't sexually attracted to the other person, thinking you aren't romantically attracted to the other person, or both, among many other things, such as trying to meet other people, cheating, focussing on real or imagined negative things about the other person, feeling suffocated or an urge to flee, thinking you don't even want a relationship in general, obsessing over a phantom ex who no one new can compare to, literally avoiding/ignoring the other person, physically withdrawing, prioritizing other things like work or travel, and so on and so on...
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Post by cris88 on Oct 6, 2018 3:44:37 GMT
I'm FA in life and frankly I'm as confused as you are. I don't have a phantom ex and I am never attracted to someone else, I may feel sometimes more open to meet a new person, sometimes, like now, I am completely shut down. I think we need more boxes to tick in order to feel attracted. It may be the music they listen to, their humor, their morals (are they racist? Do they think lowly of women?) I had never been attracted to someone just physically, when I do I tell myself it will never happen and to stop thinking about it. I had a relationship with someone FA or AD don't know, but it made me go AP, I knew that's what kept me going, thus, I found many things in common in that relationship except stability but the moment I felt we were OK I started sabotaging and deep down I knew it would never work out. It just took one final straw for me to cut all contact and wish quite frankly to never see him again. I don't know what would happen if that had been a good, normal relationship. I may had gone DA, sabotaged it, felt uncomfortable, annoyed and bored. It had happened before. It's got nothing to do with them or how attractive they are. It's we don't want a relationship. I feel a bit f***d up  . I know we're trying to grow and learn here so good luck to everyone. |
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hannah
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Post by hannah on Oct 6, 2018 10:13:40 GMT
I can totally relate! I was asking myself the same questions these days. I have this friend who I dated when we met two years ago. He's totally the kind of guy who I'm generally attracted by, we spend really great time together and we can talk about many subjects, we have many interests in common and he is a good lover but there was no sparks... I think that's because he's quite secure, so he didn't trigger me. Now that I know that sparks are not a good thing for me I was thinking to give it a try but he has also some avoidant tendencies and doesn't want a committed relationship right now.
Now I'm on a dating app, kind of trying to move on from my ex-FA who became my phantom ex, and I just swipe left almost everybody. I usually fall for someone once a year (and they are usually DA or FA or not interested - did you say unavailable partner?) so maybe the next year?
I'm thinking for the next time I meet someone, if there is no spark but no deal-breaker I will give it more of a chance just to see.
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Post by mrob on Oct 6, 2018 13:49:21 GMT
I am finding the same. I went on a date this week and immediately knew we wouldn’t be anything but friends. I asked myself the same question... Is this just pre-emptive deactivation? I’’ve never had that thought before. If someone has taken an interest after I’ve approached them, I go for it and see where it goes. Personal growth? I’m honestly not sure. happyidiot, I’m sorry for my ott response and behaviour earlier. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2018 15:56:30 GMT
I can and do deactivate early on. I , too am very rarely attracted to someone. I am guessing , the feeling is the same as a secure who just isn't in to someone, but it's more complex I think for an insecure. I think we could be into the person, but just rejecting the idea of it. I can tell now who is a secure, because all I feel on that date is boredom. My therapist says that I need to push through and get to know the person more, before deciding if I am actually bored. I haven't been able to do it though because the boredom is so real and who wants to be bored?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2018 16:16:40 GMT
I can and do deactivate early on. I , too am very rarely attracted to someone. I am guessing , the feeling is the same as a secure who just isn't in to someone, but it's more complex I think for an insecure. I think we could be into the person, but just rejecting the idea of it. I can tell now who is a secure, because all I feel on that date is boredom. My therapist says that I need to push through and get to know the person more, before deciding if I am actually bored. I haven't been able to do it though because the boredom is so real and who wants to be bored? i so get this, but i can tell you it can and does change if you do the work to get through it. i am uncomfortable with insecure dynamics and love to be around secure relating, i find it warm, peaceful, and comforting. and therefore very attractive! like a nice cologne. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 6, 2018 17:19:59 GMT
i so get this, but i can tell you it can and does change if you do the work to get through it. i am uncomfortable with insecure dynamics and love to be around secure relating, i find it warm, peaceful, and comforting. and therefore very attractive! like a nice cologne. I fully agree with juniper here. I'm earned secure after decades of being intensely AP, and this shift happened with all the work that got me almost to secure and not before. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2018 17:46:32 GMT
i so get this, but i can tell you it can and does change if you do the work to get through it. i am uncomfortable with insecure dynamics and love to be around secure relating, i find it warm, peaceful, and comforting. and therefore very attractive! like a nice cologne. I fully agree with juniper here. I'm earned secure after decades of being intensely AP, and this shift happened with all the work that got me almost to secure and not before. there comes a time when you bottom out with all the pain and will do anything possible to make it stop. that is when i started to really heal. i had enough of my own confusion. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Oct 6, 2018 17:53:39 GMT
I think this is an interesting question, as I am attracted to some people and used to be attracted to lots of people, but have always been more attracted to people I wasn't dating or being involved with than those I was... but this is partly because I'm more turned on by fantasy than reality. I have no idea what would have happened if I'd actually ended up involved with someone I'd had a lot of feelings for without being involved. Would the reality have quickly turned desire to a turn-off? Or perhaps some sort of dynamic (likely an AP-DA one since I do think I'm subconsciously attracted to avoidant people and that makes me swing AP) would have allowed desire and attraction to persist?
I wonder if some of this has to do with our sense of what "attraction" means. What if what we think it means isn't the only thing it COULD mean?
For example, I think our culture teaches us to associate attraction with desire/lust/etc... Chemistry, sparks whatever.... But there's also deep human needs for companionship, closeness, comfort, etc. I think you can have good conversations, shared enjoyments, mutual support without desire and lust. You can allegiance, alliance, solidarity, all sorts of things without having desire and lust.
Though, I wonder if one was really secure in their attachment whether the desire and lust could ever be there too. I find it difficult to have in a marriage, but there are tons of books about this (renewing or maintaining desire in long-term relationships) so it's not an uncommon challenge/problem. Is it deactivation? Are the people who stay really into their partner sexually for decades the secure ones?
I also can't help but wonder how much attraction is about the person in front of us, our psychology, or our hormones. If we had the right balance of hormones, wouldn't attraction and desire be a thing regardless of our psychology? But then what's the relationship between hormones and psychology if any?
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Post by alexandra on Oct 6, 2018 21:34:13 GMT
Though, I wonder if one was really secure in their attachment whether the desire and lust could ever be there too. I find it difficult to have in a marriage, but there are tons of books about this (renewing or maintaining desire in long-term relationships) so it's not an uncommon challenge/problem. Is it deactivation? Are the people who stay really into their partner sexually for decades the secure ones? I also can't help but wonder how much attraction is about the person in front of us, our psychology, or our hormones. If we had the right balance of hormones, wouldn't attraction and desire be a thing regardless of our psychology? But then what's the relationship between hormones and psychology if any? I personally don't think so. First, there's the science that lust/desire etc naturally fades over time and that humans adapt to their environment. So you'd always need more stimulation to maintain sparks. Second, I don't think that's what secure love is anymore. I used to, because I viewed it through the AP lens, but it's limmerance. My sparks could last indefinitely for partners who wouldn't fully commit. So, I'd have unstable romantic relationships where I'd feel plenty of lust and desire and also feel horrible and always get hurt because there was no true sustainable foundation. I thought that was what society was telling me love was because I didn't even know to question it or what the right questions were. Interestingly, my parents are still together and are happy but don't have a crazy lust filled marriage after so long together, so I didn't learn those assumptions from them. It was definitely from society. But I don't think you can assume it's hormones because those hormones will fade and change into different hormones no matter who you are with. Long term attachment and love is different. And in my personal AP experience, it's been nervous system activation and looping. I don't think long term secure desire is about those hormones and lust. I think it's about appreciating your partner and wanting to express it, or being comfortable enough with them that if you're feeling horny it will be fun to explore and satisfy that with them, and grow from the sense of safety allowing you to try new things. That's why a lot of the keep up despire for your long term partner advice seems to be just as much about maintaining a strong emotional connection as it is about explore toys and fetishes and change up the routine. Really what I've been considering lately, with all the talk of boredom, is... it's not on your partner to keep you entertained. Sure, your partner should show up for both of you best they can. But maybe we should be entertaining ourselves, by being interested in our lives, cultivating interests, finding out what motivates us, and looking to our partners to share in that experience and connect with us emotionally, not expect them to be the source of that passion and desire forever. It's not feasible, and I suspect why working on one's self confidence no matter which insecure style one has so heavily influences and possibly changes perspective on this stuff. |
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Post by happyidiot on Oct 6, 2018 23:58:58 GMT
cris88 hannah mrob lilos @mary It helps a lot to know other people can relate. Once I looked behind the curtain I became hyper-aware of my maladaptive attachment and seeing how it's permeated my life. It's tough, but I think awareness is the path to growth. Bridging the gap between seeing something and actually changing it is challenging though. I guess I will experiment with trying to give people a few dates even if I don't feel anything at first. It's not just that I'm not feeling crazy fireworks, it's that I feel nothing at all, not even any sexual desire, and if I'm not at all sexually or romantically drawn to someone I think what is the point, I have plenty of friends. [EDIT: I don't mean with everyone ever, I just mean with most of these guys that I feel like maybe I "should" be interested in but am not. I was just trying to explain that it's not that I'm expecting huge sparks but I need SOME kind of little spark] I'm going to respond in more detail to some of the individual posts when I have more time.
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Post by leavethelighton on Oct 7, 2018 1:02:46 GMT
cris88 hannah mrob lilos @mary It helps a lot to know other people can relate. Once I looked behind the curtain I became hyper-aware of my maladaptive attachment and seeing how it's permeated my life. It's tough, but I think awareness is the path to growth. Bridging the gap between seeing something and actually changing it is challenging though. I guess I will experiment with trying to give people a few dates even if I don't feel anything at first. It's not just that I'm not feeling crazy fireworks, it's that I feel nothing at all, not even any sexual desire, and if I'm not at all sexually or romantically drawn to someone I think what is the point, I have plenty of friends. I'm going to respond in more detail to some of the individual posts when I have more time.
Have you always felt that way? Because being asexual is a valid sexual identity. There's a huge online forum about it. I think it might have "Ace" in the name. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Oct 7, 2018 1:13:51 GMT
I personally don't think so. First, there's the science that lust/desire etc naturally fades over time and that humans adapt to their environment. So you'd always need more stimulation to maintain sparks. Second, I don't think that's what secure love is anymore. I used to, because I viewed it through the AP lens, but it's limmerance. My sparks could last indefinitely for partners who wouldn't fully commit. So, I'd have unstable romantic relationships where I'd feel plenty of lust and desire and also feel horrible and always get hurt because there was no true sustainable foundation. I thought that was what society was telling me love was because I didn't even know to question it or what the right questions were. Interestingly, my parents are still together and are happy but don't have a crazy lust filled marriage after so long together, so I didn't learn those assumptions from them. It was definitely from society. But I don't think you can assume it's hormones because those hormones will fade and change into different hormones no matter who you are with. Long term attachment and love is different. And in my personal AP experience, it's been nervous system activation and looping. I don't think long term secure desire is about those hormones and lust. I think it's about appreciating your partner and wanting to express it, or being comfortable enough with them that if you're feeling horny it will be fun to explore and satisfy that with them, and grow from the sense of safety allowing you to try new things. That's why a lot of the keep up despire for your long term partner advice seems to be just as much about maintaining a strong emotional connection as it is about explore toys and fetishes and change up the routine. Really what I've been considering lately, with all the talk of boredom, is... it's not on your partner to keep you entertained. Sure, your partner should show up for both of you best they can. But maybe we should be entertaining ourselves, by being interested in our lives, cultivating interests, finding out what motivates us, and looking to our partners to share in that experience and connect with us emotionally, not expect them to be the source of that passion and desire forever. It's not feasible, and I suspect why working on one's self confidence no matter which insecure style one has so heavily influences and possibly changes perspective on this stuff.
Yeah, I once read somewhere that research (I think it involved brain scans) shows that for most people the intense feelings can be kept alive indefinitely by "unrequited love" which one would think is counterintitive, but I get it.
One book I read said about 25% of women only feel responsive (or was it called receptive?) desire though (like you have to start doing things with your partner in the romantic sense and THEN you'll start to feel more desire, as opposed to desiring it from the beginning). Maybe we should do more as a culture to normalize that pattern of feelings/behavior as equally valid so people who fall into that don't feel like something is always wrong with them. |
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Post by happyidiot on Oct 7, 2018 3:10:54 GMT
cris88 hannah mrob lilos @mary It helps a lot to know other people can relate. Once I looked behind the curtain I became hyper-aware of my maladaptive attachment and seeing how it's permeated my life. It's tough, but I think awareness is the path to growth. Bridging the gap between seeing something and actually changing it is challenging though. I guess I will experiment with trying to give people a few dates even if I don't feel anything at first. It's not just that I'm not feeling crazy fireworks, it's that I feel nothing at all, not even any sexual desire, and if I'm not at all sexually or romantically drawn to someone I think what is the point, I have plenty of friends. I'm going to respond in more detail to some of the individual posts when I have more time.
Have you always felt that way? Because being asexual is a valid sexual identity. There's a huge online forum about it. I think it might have "Ace" in the name. Oh no, sorry if that was unclear, I meant that I've had no sexual desire towards many of these people who I'm wondering if I might be rapidly deactivating from. I'm definitely not asexual. I want to have sex and I like having a lot of sex when I am sexually attracted to someone, but it's usually not very frequent that I am sexually attracted to someone. I am wondering if not feeling interested in sex with most people I go on a date with is early deactivation. I definitely don't historically feel that way about everyone. |
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andy
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Post by andy on Oct 7, 2018 3:19:49 GMT
cris88 hannah mrob lilos @mary It helps a lot to know other people can relate. Once I looked behind the curtain I became hyper-aware of my maladaptive attachment and seeing how it's permeated my life. It's tough, but I think awareness is the path to growth. Bridging the gap between seeing something and actually changing it is challenging though. I guess I will experiment with trying to give people a few dates even if I don't feel anything at first. It's not just that I'm not feeling crazy fireworks, it's that I feel nothing at all, not even any sexual desire, and if I'm not at all sexually or romantically drawn to someone I think what is the point, I have plenty of friends. I'm going to respond in more detail to some of the individual posts when I have more time.
Have you always felt that way? Because being asexual is a valid sexual identity. There's a huge online forum about it. I think it might have "Ace" in the name. That's right, it's called AVEN (Asexual Visibility and Education Network). I used to hang out on there in its very early days, like 2003-4. I don't identify as ace, but the idea of an asexual spectrum is still personally relevant to me. Maybe others can also find some validation and comfort there even if they don't end up identifying on the asexual spectrum - much more so if they do, of course. There is a ton of hype and pressure around sexual and romantic attraction, hey? It really doesn't do most of us any favours. I can also really relate to this thread as I keep my partner at arm's length and tell myself it's because it has never been sparky-feeling. Like, right now I'm on a short family trip, and I didn't invite him to join - actually, I have never invited him along on a family trip (more than five years in). Maybe I should finally own up to having a strong avoidant side. And maybe next time I'll invite him and see how that ends up going. |
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. I know we're trying to grow and learn here so good luck to everyone. 
