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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2018 15:44:43 GMT
i definitely have come to the point of being secure enough to know how much insecurity i can tolerate.
i'm not so handicapped that i need a handicapped partner to dance my dance with.
you can only go so far with the start-stall-stop dynamic, eventually you either settle into that and suffer or grow beyond it.
if keeping the "relationship" is more important than being emotionally safe and secure then it can continue to the detriment of everyone as long as can be done.
if becoming emotionally available and secure is the goal, the relationship may or may not last.
my priority is security over relationship, because i know what i need to be satisfied and don't want to settle.
i'm not asking anyone else to settle, i want to relate securely.
and reciprocity is my requirement.
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 11, 2018 16:04:25 GMT
But I think that is a key difference in the approach of some people over others....identifying the issue when you are in overwhelm is very challenging. Even when not in overwhelm, a person whose primary mode of relating to others and the world by feelings may not relate to the notion of using logic or at least, using logic to identify what the issue truly is. If the OP can relate back to what you have stated, then great....but that approach won't work for everyone. That's why you shouldn't be absolutely doing it (nor acting on your gut feeling) when you're overwhelmed. Moreover, that's why your main goal should be becoming secure rather learning how to tiptoe. I myself can't always use logic. I'm FA with a hardcore DA partner. My attachment is being activated all the time when things are bad and when things are going excellent but I made a promise to myself not to act or make any kind of decisions and judgments how I feel about him when I'm like that. I acknowledge how I feel, but that's it. I committed to it. Otherwise I'd end up using my attachment as an excuse, avoid responsibility for my own actions, pity myself and play the "if only he..." card. As long as your only focus is on the other person, it won't work out because you're a part of the circle. Once you stop, the circle will stop. Many people don't do that and they do not want to do in fear of letting go, but it gets them nowhere. I see the starting point as self acceptance first....becoming secure is a by product of that..but the self acceptance is what drives the change (the ability to define boundaries where one did not exist before and sticking to it, the ability to speak for oneself etc). I agree that focusing solely on the other person creates a losing battle...which is why for some people, getting out of the relationship and not having the ability to focus quite so much on the other person allows for the focus to return to the self. I have seen it work and not work both in a relationship and being single...each person has to determine what works for him/her. I do hope that stephster is ok....haven't seen her back in this post. |
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Post by stephster on Oct 11, 2018 20:28:01 GMT
Thanks so much for all your thoughtful replies. I've been reading them with great interest.
I feel like the FA in my life pushed away in a way that was quite abrupt and it left me feeling heartbroken. He and I work together, we aren't even dating, but we made a plan to date after his divorce. We bonded in the workplace (I know not ideal). But it happened. He was texting me, calling me, and having special meet up times at work. I fell for him hard.
One day we had a long conversation over the phone which led to him disclosing a lot of personal stuff to me. I felt very close to him that night. After that night, he stopped calling me, stopped texting me, and was very aloof with me at work. I took it very personally. I couldn't help it. It's been a few weeks of this and things between us went from a 10 to a 0. I purposely ignored him at work as a way to get back at him, but I now regret it, so I started to wave at him now when I see him.
The whole thing confuses me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2018 21:04:47 GMT
Thanks so much for all your thoughtful replies. I've been reading them with great interest. I feel like the FA in my life pushed away in a way that was quite abrupt and it left me feeling heartbroken. He and I work together, we aren't even dating, but we made a plan to date after his divorce. We bonded in the workplace (I know not ideal). But it happened. He was texting me, calling me, and having special meet up times at work. I fell for him hard. One day we had a long conversation over the phone which led to him disclosing a lot of personal stuff to me. I felt very close to him that night. After that night, he stopped calling me, stopped texting me, and was very aloof with me at work. I took it very personally. I couldn't help it. It's been a few weeks of this and things between us went from a 10 to a 0. I purposely ignored him at work as a way to get back at him, but I now regret it, so I started to wave at him now when I see him. The whole thing confuses me. i'm not at all convinced that this man is fA and that he has a phase. to me, it looks like he is conflicted going through a divorce (notoriously one of the most arduous negative emotional events of a life time) and he got further involved with you that he may find realistic or sustainable , so he retreated. getting involved during a divorce is dicey no matter the attachment style. it's a vulnerable time. a confusing time. and a time when most people are trying to navigate their changes and figure themselves out a bit. it's not a good time to start a relationship and you're experiencing that. but i don't know if it has anything to do with attachment style. of course, except for yours- do you know your attachment style? |
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Post by ocarina on Oct 11, 2018 21:07:31 GMT
I think it's a two way street here - extreme anxiety can trigger fear of abandonment when there is no grounds - but the fear that comes from an unstable relationship that is not reciprocal is very real and is justified.
Being accepting at your own expense is extremely damaging and can lead to normalising, over time, what is is essence a toxic dynamic.
If it's confusing then you have your answer - nobody wants to be in an ambiguous relationship - does this relationship bring out the best in you? Maybe the push pull keeps you hooked and if so it's an indicator that some introspection may be required on your part.
I was in a relationship with a similar dynamic on both our parts - it was destabilising and led to a loss of intimacy and trust. In the same relationship now but with a completely different dynamic and a culture of openess and willingness to be vulnerable on both sides, the fear and anxiety has almost totally gone. I thought that by being accepting I could change the dynamic - in fact being accepting just stuffed down my human need to love and led nowhere.
Many of us are extremely good at Dealing With Things by numbing, or ignoring needs and feelings - this is not the way the road to freedom and contentment lies.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 24, 2018 21:25:47 GMT
Just wondering how to deal with the FA in your life when they push away? How does it not eventually destroy trust? How can you enjoy those close times when you know you'll eventually be desolate again? Can you rephrase it so that it isn't personal? Perhaps instead of looking at what it is meaning to you, can you instead be open to what it means for him? I am AP and my alarm bells would go off whenever I felt that B was pulling away...because I would not pull away unless there was a problem or I was angry at the other person. What I am learning from these forums is that time apart, pulling away can mean regaining another person's autonomy, it can mean regrouping self after enjoying time together. In no way am I saying that if he is flat out ignoring you, that you should tolerate that...but there is a natural ebb and flow in relationships. What worked for me was to remind myself that each and every time I felt afraid it was a fear that he would leave me...but he always returned after these breaks. Is there anything you can do to pamper yourself while he is pushing away? trn9 - how long would your breaks typically last with your FA? Seems FA will circle back but DA are one and done. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 24, 2018 21:33:14 GMT
I think it's a two way street here - extreme anxiety can trigger fear of abandonment when there is no grounds - but the fear that comes from an unstable relationship that is not reciprocal is very real and is justified. Being accepting at your own expense is extremely damaging and can lead to normalising, over time, what is is essence a toxic dynamic. If it's confusing then you have your answer - nobody wants to be in an ambiguous relationship - does this relationship bring out the best in you? Maybe the push pull keeps you hooked and if so it's an indicator that some introspection may be required on your part. I was in a relationship with a similar dynamic on both our parts - it was destabilising and led to a loss of intimacy and trust. In the same relationship now but with a completely different dynamic and a culture of openess and willingness to be vulnerable on both sides, the fear and anxiety has almost totally gone. I thought that by being accepting I could change the dynamic - in fact being accepting just stuffed down my human need to love and led nowhere. Many of us are extremely good at Dealing With Things by numbing, or ignoring needs and feelings - this is not the way the road to freedom and contentment lies. Glad you’re doing well now...how did you and your partner turn the dynamic around? Were you both willing to communicate openly and committed to making changes In yourselves? |
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 25, 2018 0:41:50 GMT
Can you rephrase it so that it isn't personal? Perhaps instead of looking at what it is meaning to you, can you instead be open to what it means for him? I am AP and my alarm bells would go off whenever I felt that B was pulling away...because I would not pull away unless there was a problem or I was angry at the other person. What I am learning from these forums is that time apart, pulling away can mean regaining another person's autonomy, it can mean regrouping self after enjoying time together. In no way am I saying that if he is flat out ignoring you, that you should tolerate that...but there is a natural ebb and flow in relationships. What worked for me was to remind myself that each and every time I felt afraid it was a fear that he would leave me...but he always returned after these breaks. Is there anything you can do to pamper yourself while he is pushing away? trn9 - how long would your breaks typically last with your FA? Seems FA will circle back but DA are one and done. Typically a week....but the silence of not hearing from him for days used to be the thing that would get me. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 25, 2018 2:09:27 GMT
trn9 - how long would your breaks typically last with your FA? Seems FA will circle back but DA are one and done. Typically a week....but the silence of not hearing from him for days used to be the thing that would get me. Yes, time and space are definitely my triggers. I’m two weeks no contact and I’m very distracted and tempted to reach out. If we keep doing the same things though- I know we’re going to get the same results. Definition of insanity. So, I’m trying to do things differently but it’s a struggle. He’s deep DA. He doesn’t revisit. |
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 25, 2018 12:35:59 GMT
Typically a week....but the silence of not hearing from him for days used to be the thing that would get me. Yes, time and space are definitely my triggers. I’m two weeks no contact and I’m very distracted and tempted to reach out. If we keep doing the same things though- I know we’re going to get the same results. Definition of insanity. So, I’m trying to do things differently but it’s a struggle. He’s deep DA. He doesn’t revisit. I understand....the problem is space "filling" for me....that is when my mind wants to visualize closeness but instead comes up with scary scenarios such as he was purposely moving away from me, he found someone else that he prefers, if I don't contact him I will lose him forever etc. Visualizing your loved one in distance is a normal thing...but there is a sense of peace and not dread in this activity for secures which I believe comes out of an assurance that they are in fact worth coming back to and an understanding that time apart isn't always personal and is healthy. I don't know if that is your struggle as well...but if so, then noticing and changing the internal dialogue may help. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 25, 2018 21:44:41 GMT
Yes, time and space are definitely my triggers. I’m two weeks no contact and I’m very distracted and tempted to reach out. If we keep doing the same things though- I know we’re going to get the same results. Definition of insanity. So, I’m trying to do things differently but it’s a struggle. He’s deep DA. He doesn’t revisit. I understand....the problem is space "filling" for me....that is when my mind wants to visualize closeness but instead comes up with scary scenarios such as he was purposely moving away from me, he found someone else that he prefers, if I don't contact him I will lose him forever etc. Visualizing your loved one in distance is a normal thing...but there is a sense of peace and not dread in this activity for secures which I believe comes out of an assurance that they are in fact worth coming back to and an understanding that time apart isn't always personal and is healthy. I don't know if that is your struggle as well...but if so, then noticing and changing the internal dialogue may help. Hey, tnr...yes, the internal AP dialogue chatters endlessly on the negative in time and space...”he’s leaving, he doesn’t care, he won’t be back.” My internal dialogue has changed some in the break and with my awareness of attachment styles;however, I still fight that urge to be triggered. ESP since time and space are my triggers and a break up is exactly that- time. Space. I feel my internal dialogue can be more accurate now but it’s also not encouraging- recognizing how we’re polar opposites and he’s not willing to explore changing. Now my dialogue is more that he cares, but feels unsafe. He feels overwhelmed and can’t do it. And being in no contact is making me want him more... |
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 25, 2018 22:38:25 GMT
I understand....the problem is space "filling" for me....that is when my mind wants to visualize closeness but instead comes up with scary scenarios such as he was purposely moving away from me, he found someone else that he prefers, if I don't contact him I will lose him forever etc. Visualizing your loved one in distance is a normal thing...but there is a sense of peace and not dread in this activity for secures which I believe comes out of an assurance that they are in fact worth coming back to and an understanding that time apart isn't always personal and is healthy. I don't know if that is your struggle as well...but if so, then noticing and changing the internal dialogue may help. Hey, tnr...yes, the internal AP dialogue chatters endlessly on the negative in time and space...”he’s leaving, he doesn’t care, he won’t be back.” My internal dialogue has changed some in the break and with my awareness of attachment styles;however, I still fight that urge to be triggered. ESP since time and space are my triggers and a break up is exactly that- time. Space. I feel my internal dialogue can be more accurate now but it’s also not encouraging- recognizing how we’re polar opposites and he’s not willing to explore changing. Now my dialogue is more that he cares, but feels unsafe. He feels overwhelmed and can’t do it. And being in no contact is making me want him more... I get it....but can you open space within that dialogue to admit to the fact that you really don't know what his real thoughts are. I know he has said things about not trusting...but that seems more general than specific to you...and making it specific may be driving more of a desire in you to reach out...as if to say...I am safe because I am still here. Does that resonate at all? |
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Post by epicgum on Oct 25, 2018 22:46:43 GMT
"Many of us are extremely good at Dealing With Things by numbing, or ignoring needs and feelings - this is not the way the road to freedom and contentment lies."
I think this deserves an underscore.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 26, 2018 0:57:27 GMT
Hey, tnr...yes, the internal AP dialogue chatters endlessly on the negative in time and space...”he’s leaving, he doesn’t care, he won’t be back.” My internal dialogue has changed some in the break and with my awareness of attachment styles;however, I still fight that urge to be triggered. ESP since time and space are my triggers and a break up is exactly that- time. Space. I feel my internal dialogue can be more accurate now but it’s also not encouraging- recognizing how we’re polar opposites and he’s not willing to explore changing. Now my dialogue is more that he cares, but feels unsafe. He feels overwhelmed and can’t do it. And being in no contact is making me want him more... I get it....but can you open space within that dialogue to admit to the fact that you really don't know what his real thoughts are. I know he has said things about not trusting...but that seems more general than specific to you...and making it specific may be driving more of a desire in you to reach out...as if to say...I am safe because I am still here. Does that resonate at all? Hey...yes, that completely resonates bc I feel by him saying he doesn’t mean to be tough but has a hard time trusting, gave me a glimpse into his thoughts that he doesn’t feel safe trusting me so I need to earn it. Yes, earn it by being here when he needs me and reaching out so he knows I didn’t abandon him. (Although I may be projecting the assurance I crave.) I don’t know the right thing to do- which is why I thought I’d focus on me instead but the silence wreaks havoc on me most of the time. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 26, 2018 0:59:31 GMT
I think it's a two way street here - extreme anxiety can trigger fear of abandonment when there is no grounds - but the fear that comes from an unstable relationship that is not reciprocal is very real and is justified. Being accepting at your own expense is extremely damaging and can lead to normalising, over time, what is is essence a toxic dynamic. If it's confusing then you have your answer - nobody wants to be in an ambiguous relationship - does this relationship bring out the best in you? Maybe the push pull keeps you hooked and if so it's an indicator that some introspection may be required on your part. I was in a relationship with a similar dynamic on both our parts - it was destabilising and led to a loss of intimacy and trust. In the same relationship now but with a completely different dynamic and a culture of openess and willingness to be vulnerable on both sides, the fear and anxiety has almost totally gone. I thought that by being accepting I could change the dynamic - in fact being accepting just stuffed down my human need to love and led nowhere. Many of us are extremely good at Dealing With Things by numbing, or ignoring needs and feelings - this is not the way the road to freedom and contentment lies. This resonated with me so much I took a screen shot so I can reread! 💗 |
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