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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 12:56:38 GMT
it does seem like a bunch of protest behavior back and forth. and it seems like you always have a good excuse to act out but in your eyes he doesn't, and he's always just a jerk in your perspective. he's a jerk and you're hurt. but he sounds hurt too, and like he thinks you're a jerk. you both seem to feel victimized by the other. maybe on your end it's related to how insecure you feel because he doesn't verbalize commitment. but then he seems to show up quite a bit for you. but it's never quite right, never quite enough. it seems like you two just go into petty fight mode easily and you get butthurt even if you behaved in protest ways too. my guess is that the relationship just is too insecure for either of you to ever really relax. Hey Juniper! I do have to agree with a lot of what you say here. I've been thinking on it today and I don't like a lot of how either of us showed up, but mostly myself. I don't fully agree that I always have a good excuse to act out, I think there are times where I just hit a limit and I don't consider some of it acting out, though I know that there are more times I do than don't, so that is true. I think you are spot on about us both being victimized by the other and yes, I am definitely butthurt! x's 100! But, when I didn't respond to his text, I truly felt spent at the time and just could not bring myself to engage. I was attacked the week prior, so I was bandaged up and SUPER vulnerable and I just needed him and I felt that his wanting to see a movie out, was very hurtful when he knows what happened and he was gone all weekend (with no protests here). I felt like I had to just step away and when I respond just a few days later, I did apologize and I did explain why. He chose to react in his way which I did find jerky, but upon reflection, I was a total jerk too because I could have just said I cant talk now, will respond later. So, I was acting out even if I think I wasn't, or I guess would LIKE to think I wasn't. I also agree that it is too insecure for either of us to relax and that saddens me. I also am kicking myself for my behavior but also trying to hold onto expressing my needs when they arise. Can be tough for me I think... good feedback though! i know it's a precarious situation because neither one of you are committed and are ready to throw in the towel at any moment- but... you both have chosen to stay in this relationship and it has many good attributes that you both provide... and the shitty parts are also what you both produce. you're in the relationship- both of you. so day to day while you're in it, try to increase your goodness to it, try to be better to each other and not just defended. AP hurt is hard to endure, as hard to endure as avoidant avoidance. believe this. anxious poster after anxious poster has said lately that their partner felt "worthless" "like a monster" and broken up with, after hearing about AP hurt. be aware when nothing is ever good enough. it hurts for an avoidant to offer what they can and get accused of being hurtful. it sucks and i choose not to be in relationship with AP because they always make me out to be this selfish asshole that they just put up with. they don't see that they are selfish assholes too. tough talk but seriously- is he a monster or not? are you choosing to be in a relationship? ruminating and self blame is NOT the same as thoughtful introspection about one's true liabilities in a relationship. be in or out! accept him or not. you say he is FA- so, he is wounded just like you and he needs the same care and consideration you want. i think you two could have a decent relationship if you both just get your shit together. |
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 14, 2018 16:46:21 GMT
Hey Juniper! I do have to agree with a lot of what you say here. I've been thinking on it today and I don't like a lot of how either of us showed up, but mostly myself. I don't fully agree that I always have a good excuse to act out, I think there are times where I just hit a limit and I don't consider some of it acting out, though I know that there are more times I do than don't, so that is true. I think you are spot on about us both being victimized by the other and yes, I am definitely butthurt! x's 100! But, when I didn't respond to his text, I truly felt spent at the time and just could not bring myself to engage. I was attacked the week prior, so I was bandaged up and SUPER vulnerable and I just needed him and I felt that his wanting to see a movie out, was very hurtful when he knows what happened and he was gone all weekend (with no protests here). I felt like I had to just step away and when I respond just a few days later, I did apologize and I did explain why. He chose to react in his way which I did find jerky, but upon reflection, I was a total jerk too because I could have just said I cant talk now, will respond later. So, I was acting out even if I think I wasn't, or I guess would LIKE to think I wasn't. I also agree that it is too insecure for either of us to relax and that saddens me. I also am kicking myself for my behavior but also trying to hold onto expressing my needs when they arise. Can be tough for me I think... good feedback though! i know it's a precarious situation because neither one of you are committed and are ready to throw in the towel at any moment- but... you both have chosen to stay in this relationship and it has many good attributes that you both provide... and the shitty parts are also what you both produce. you're in the relationship- both of you. so day to day while you're in it, try to increase your goodness to it, try to be better to each other and not just defended. AP hurt is hard to endure, as hard to endure as avoidant avoidance. believe this. anxious poster after anxious poster has said lately that their partner felt "worthless" "like a monster" and broken up with, after hearing about AP hurt. be aware when nothing is ever good enough. it hurts for an avoidant to offer what they can and get accused of being hurtful. it sucks and i choose not to be in relationship with AP because they always make me out to be this selfish asshole that they just put up with. they don't see that they are selfish assholes too. tough talk but seriously- is he a monster or not? are you choosing to be in a relationship? ruminating and self blame is NOT the same as thoughtful introspection about one's true liabilities in a relationship. be in or out! accept him or not. you say he is FA- so, he is wounded just like you and he needs the same care and consideration you want. i think you two could have a decent relationship if you both just get your shit together. I think what is difficult with us, is that I've been in therapy and he absolutely refuses. So I do spend a great deal of time trying to navigate the relationship where I don't trigger us both, its hard to do all the work. I obviously slip in my own work of trying not to "act out" but I think its easy to say that AP's always act out instead of acknowledging a lot of us are also trying to voice our needs without being called "needy" by our partners. My ex has NO problem stating what he needs so I do my best to try and understand even when I fail, I come back and acknowledge my wrong-doing. He on the other hand runs when I state a need and that is not fair at all. It would be very easy to classify my needs as being overly dependent and selfish, which then makes him feel bad, like a failure, but when I've learned how to care for the majority of my own needs and only ask for small things here and there from him, it all becomes unbalanced. I think if he wanted to work on himself it would definitely help our relationship, but what I'm dealing with is someone who believes I am the majority of the problem. i absolutely do not believe he is a monster. Those are his words and I believe he victimizes himself when he does that. He also tells me he doesn't have anyone else in his life who gives him this much grief, that he could be with others who are much easier to deal with. I told him he should spend more time with those people, but he doesn't, so how am I supposed to take that? I hear what you are saying, but I also know that I work hard to own my shit and understand his, but without a real partner working with me, all I can do is keep trying my best. I am committed to that, and I am committed to him. |
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 14, 2018 16:52:08 GMT
He will check in on me during the week to see how I am and if I need help around the house. He is attentive when we are togethe and affectionate when we are intimate. He will compliment me and go out of his way to give advice on the phone when I have a major decision and while he never tells me how he feels about me, he makes himself available most weekends to hang out with me. This past May it was confusing, he started trying to spend more time with me and even my friends, he also wanted to get back on my sisters good side, but that was short lived. I havent tried with intention, I usually do guided mediation around self love, finding all answers within the self, no outside attachments for fulfillment. So he expresses caring, but it's not verbal. I too like to hear it in words, I think because then I know that the other person is aware that they care/have feelings for me. My experience with people who can't say it is that it's easy for them to deactivate and say they don't have any feelings for me. But maybe that's silly, since I've had people say they loved me and still treat me like garbage or avoid me. "This past May was confusing" – This may be news to you but FAs are confusing as hell. I'm not the highest on the avoidance/anxiety scales and I try very hard not to be confusing, and I still fail. I confuse myself. These people who are super high on the scales and don't even realize they have a problem are probably the most confusing people around. Look at a person's actions and consistency over time. An intention can be something like, "I'm going to listen for messages." Or you can ask a question, like, "What is the universe teaching me?" or, "What is the real reason I am feeling this pain right now?" I find this is helpful for self-soothing and getting intuitive insights. Thank you for the meditation suggestion! I like it. I agree that hearing it, even if its just once a month can go a long way in reaffirming the other person IS aware. He only told me how he felt when he broke up with me. It was all surprising to hear when I was entirely unsure a lot of the time. I have also had someone tell me they love me a lot, but never show it at all. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 16:53:42 GMT
i hear your frustration, but all things considered, and reading what you just wrote about himself and yourself, i have to say that any expectation for treatment that feels secure and consistently good is very unrealistic.
so i do see that you'll just have to bear the pain of it, since he is completely unwilling to meet you halfway.
i have read that you are struggling with leaving/staying so i didn't read commitment into that.
i'm sorry you're struggling in this, and i hope you recover fast and well from the injury.
hugs, and keep doing your best, it's the only thing you can do.
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 14, 2018 17:04:35 GMT
i hear your frustration, but all things considered, and reading what you just wrote about himself and yourself, i have to say that any expectation for treatment that feels secure and consistently good is very unrealistic. so i do see that you'll just have to bear the pain of it, since he is completely unwilling to meet you halfway. i have read that you are struggling with leaving/staying so i didn't read commitment into that. i'm sorry you're struggling in this, and i hope you recover fast and well from the injury. hugs, and keep doing your best, it's the only thing you can do. Yeah, I know its not possible so I do not expect it. I just try to work with what we have for now, knowing it just can't last like this. This is why I sometimes go back and forth on here about leaving. I don't want to, I would like more than anything to work with him and support him should he choose to get help, but he has told me when I've asked that he doesn't need it and that we just aren't good together. The reality is, we could be much better. I see so much love between us even in the struggle, but reality will hit me, and I feel sad. I do my best to not voice it to him, and instead come on here, meditate and continue my own work. I hate seeing him struggle so much and I just wish he knew that he could be happier with some work, with or without me in his life. I have told him that our relationship cannot last like this, that we should cherish it for now, but he says that we have our whole lives to know each other and that I'm being dramatic. that to me, feels like a disavow of reality. I keep trying to date others and keep an open mind, but I've realized that while he is in my life, I can only be devoted to this thing with him until I can actually let go and heal. That would require NC and a clean break, I guess I keep waiting to be ready for that. |
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 14, 2018 17:06:55 GMT
oh and thank you for the kind words of support! I appreciate that :-)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 17:12:36 GMT
i hear your frustration, but all things considered, and reading what you just wrote about himself and yourself, i have to say that any expectation for treatment that feels secure and consistently good is very unrealistic. so i do see that you'll just have to bear the pain of it, since he is completely unwilling to meet you halfway. i have read that you are struggling with leaving/staying so i didn't read commitment into that. i'm sorry you're struggling in this, and i hope you recover fast and well from the injury. hugs, and keep doing your best, it's the only thing you can do. Yeah, I know its not possible so I do not expect it. I just try to work with what we have for now, knowing it just can't last like this. This is why I sometimes go back and forth on here about leaving. I don't want to, I would like more than anything to work with him and support him should he choose to get help, but he has told me when I've asked that he doesn't need it and that we just aren't good together. The reality is, we could be much better. I see so much love between us even in the struggle, but reality will hit me, and I feel sad. I do my best to not voice it to him, and instead come on here, meditate and continue my own work. I hate seeing him struggle so much and I just wish he knew that he could be happier with some work, with or without me in his life. I have told him that our relationship cannot last like this, that we should cherish it for now, but he says that we have our whole lives to know each other and that I'm being dramatic. that to me, feels like a disavow of reality. I keep trying to date others and keep an open mind, but I've realized that while he is in my life, I can only be devoted to this thing with him until I can actually let go and heal. That would require NC and a clean break, I guess I keep waiting to be ready for that. i do get it. letting go of a relationship that has so much good and yet keeps coming back to the same issue is wrenching. but, if you stay true to your healing and process, then in time you will be able to let go with love for you and he both. in the grand scheme, we all are going to ultimately do the best we can do and move in and out of situations that challenge or grow is where we are. when you move to a new place inside yourself, your outside situations will adjust to reflect that, and things which used to baffle and dismay you will begin to make sense. it's an evolution for each one of us, him included. he may never address the things that block a relationship with you. his life may not yield the fruit you or anyone else would like it to- but it's his journey and no one can guess or judge the value of what he learns and discovers along the way. it's his inner truth, and he will know it better than anyone. anyway, i support you woman to woman in finding your home! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 18:54:01 GMT
Hey. We last texted thurs eve. He told me he is extremely busy with his family and cannot deal with added stress. So I let him know that i understand that, but both of our feelings matter. I sent him a text this morning letting him know I wont text anymore as its too painful to reach out and only get silence in return. I said i will not ignore him if he contacts me, just wont be initiating contact. Havent sent anything since, and he is silent. Usually i leave him be anyway when he is w family, but we always talk at least once a day while he is away. Its all because i didnt respond to his text for 4 days. Are you ok?? I don't want to make you feel any worse when you're having a tough time, and I really have a ton of compassion and empathy for how you're feeling, but sometimes we have to tell people what we think will help them grow, not what will necessarily comfort them. Although maybe it could potentially comfort you too, I don't know. As an uninvolved person who doesn't have a lot of detail to go on, these are my thoughts: It seems like you think you had good reason for not texting him but that he doesn't have good reason for not texting you and is simply not texting you out of vengeance. But he told you he is extremely busy with his family and cannot deal with added stress. It seems a mistake to assume his silence is solely cruel punishment because you ignored him for 4 days. And there must have been times before that he didn't text you for days, no? Maybe, like you he feels "too angry and hurt to engage." Maybe it felt just as horrible to him to be ignored as it does to you and he isn't trying to punish you exactly but is busy and stressed and hurt himself and can't prioritize your feelings right now. It seems unfair to hold him to higher standards than you hold yourself. I guess I'm trying to help you see things from a different perspective, but I also don't want you to go into an AP spiral of blaming yourself and ONLY having compassion for him. You don't need to blame either of you. But maybe you can work on reducing your own protest behavior in the future, and work on taking it like less of an attack when he withdraws in the future? And right now remember, he'll be back. And if he actually ignores you forever, then honestly good riddance, and you WILL be ok. Sometimes I like to play out my biggest fears in my head and realize I will survive even if they come true. Do you ever meditate? I'll be ok, just having a tough time, thanks for asking. happyidiot I too like to play out my worst fears in my head, I often get an overwhelmingly sense of relief when I take myself thru my worst fears, is that bizarre. Sending you big hugs Xx |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 18:57:17 GMT
I don't want to make you feel any worse when you're having a tough time, and I really have a ton of compassion and empathy for how you're feeling, but sometimes we have to tell people what we think will help them grow, not what will necessarily comfort them. Although maybe it could potentially comfort you too, I don't know. As an uninvolved person who doesn't have a lot of detail to go on, these are my thoughts: It seems like you think you had good reason for not texting him but that he doesn't have good reason for not texting you and is simply not texting you out of vengeance. But he told you he is extremely busy with his family and cannot deal with added stress. It seems a mistake to assume his silence is solely cruel punishment because you ignored him for 4 days. And there must have been times before that he didn't text you for days, no? Maybe, like you he feels "too angry and hurt to engage." Maybe it felt just as horrible to him to be ignored as it does to you and he isn't trying to punish you exactly but is busy and stressed and hurt himself and can't prioritize your feelings right now. It seems unfair to hold him to higher standards than you hold yourself. I guess I'm trying to help you see things from a different perspective, but I also don't want you to go into an AP spiral of blaming yourself and ONLY having compassion for him. You don't need to blame either of you. But maybe you can work on reducing your own protest behavior in the future, and work on taking it like less of an attack when he withdraws in the future? And right now remember, he'll be back. And if he actually ignores you forever, then honestly good riddance, and you WILL be ok. Sometimes I like to play out my biggest fears in my head and realize I will survive even if they come true. Do you ever meditate? I'll be ok, just having a tough time, thanks for asking. happyidiot I too like to play out my worst fears in my head, I often get an overwhelmingly sense of relief when I take myself thru my worst fears, is that bizarre. Sending you big hugs Xx i learned that in a class on public speaking actually- to overcome fear by imagining the worse reasonable outcome and realizing that you could survive it and be ok, even if it sucked. then you can stop resisting so much and do better at finding solutions to what actually is, rather than trying to prevent what you fear. (and making it a self fulfilling prophecy) |
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 15, 2018 18:44:28 GMT
So sorry to see that Juniper is gone... I do hope she will come back at some point. I do like the idea of playing out the worst scenarios, I do think that is a very useful tool in realizing that none of this will kill me, it hurts and its very painful, but it's also just a moment in time, not forever. happyidiot, how are you doing today? The silence is still so hard for me, have heard nothing and I'm starting to entertain ideas that he may never come back. Knowing him, he may send a long text or email about why we should not hang out or why we should hang out less etc and I really just don't want to see any of it. I've got a lot on my plate, and this just feels kind of overwhelming right now. I woke up last night just berating myself for so many things, very unproductive so today I'm going to try my best to stay positive and focused. |
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 15, 2018 19:17:26 GMT
So sorry to see that Juniper is gone... I do hope she will come back at some point. I do like the idea of playing out the worst scenarios, I do think that is a very useful tool in realizing that none of this will kill me, it hurts and its very painful, but it's also just a moment in time, not forever. happyidiot , how are you doing today? The silence is still so hard for me, have heard nothing and I'm starting to entertain ideas that he may never come back. Knowing him, he may send a long text or email about why we should not hang out or why we should hang out less etc and I really just don't want to see any of it. I've got a lot on my plate, and this just feels kind of overwhelming right now. I woke up last night just berating myself for so many things, very unproductive so today I'm going to try my best to stay positive and focused. Oh, I hate feeling like that. Just look at history, he always comes back. You know he's dealing with family issues and he simply can't focus on both. Give him space and time and focus on yourself and your health. It will be fine. When I've been in this place, listening to youtube videos on staying present has helped me. I tend to catastrophize and I always find it was a waste of time😁 Awww, thank you so much Future. I love listening to Youtube for some inspirational guidance! I have a few good ones in rotation, ever hear of Wayne Dyer? He offers a lot of great inspirational talks about the self and how to honor and care for ourselves. I guess I realize how selfish I was with my ex, he did reach out and i pushed him away and I should not have. When I get flooded with stress, I forget his needs and just focus on my own. Only thing I can do is learn from that... |
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 15, 2018 19:54:12 GMT
Yes, its hard when you realize and see your actions after the fact! Ugh, I feel embarrassed as well. He always seems so cool and collected, but of course I understand he isn't, just wish I appeared less unhinged! To my defense though, I am going through personal stuff that has made me even more emotional, not that its an excuse, just an unfortunate added stress.
You are so right though! AP's are always in the past or future, it is very hard to stay present and to also just slow down...
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 18, 2018 17:52:51 GMT
Hi Future!
I have and its not good. He sent a VERY long email saying how time apart has been a benefit for him to get space from our interactions. He feels imprisoned by our spending time together and wants to break free from it and have his freedom.
He said he cannot be here for me emotionally and that he doesnt want to say good-bye either, he wants me to be his friend but he doesnt want to be intimate anymore and spend weekend together etc. He wants to be friends with me like he is with others in his life.
He basically framed me as too emotional for him and placed blame on me that he felt trapped- HE was the one who relentlessly chased me after he dumped me only to bring me back into his life, re-date me, but call in friendship, then do the push/pull. Sadly just a few weeks ago we were away for a weekend and it was lovely. At any rate, I'm in intense pain and yet numb so I know the next few weeks/months are going to be very hard, but i cannot accept his fair-weather friendship.
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Post by lilyg on Oct 18, 2018 18:07:32 GMT
Hi Future! I have and its not good. He sent a VERY long email saying how time apart has been a benefit for him to get space from our interactions. He feels imprisoned by our spending time together and wants to break free from it and have his freedom. He said he cannot be here for me emotionally and that he doesnt want to say good-bye either, he wants me to be his friend but he doesnt want to be intimate anymore and spend weekend together etc. He wants to be friends with me like he is with others in his life. He basically framed me as too emotional for him and placed blame on me that he felt trapped- HE was the one who relentlessly chased me after he dumped me only to bring me back into his life, re-date me, but call in friendship, then do the push/pull. Sadly just a few weeks ago we were away for a weekend and it was lovely. At any rate, I'm in intense pain and yet numb so I know the next few weeks/months are going to be very hard, but i cannot accept his fair-weather friendship. I'm sorry to hear that. I can understand the anxiety of the pull/push. It's great that even through the pain you understand yourself and your needs very well. With that in mind I'm sure you'll find comfort and feel better when the time comes. I can understand wanting to avoid toxic patterns. Feel free to vent whenever you feel like it. Big hug to you, kristyrose 💐 |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 18, 2018 18:51:59 GMT
Sadly just a few weeks ago we were away for a weekend and it was lovely. At any rate, I'm in intense pain and yet numb so I know the next few weeks/months are going to be very hard, but i cannot accept his fair-weather friendship. I'm sorry to hear this. It seems in line with everything he's said and done. He's tried to keep you at a specific distance, and when he lets his guard down a bit and you two naturally get closer due to your connection, he runs soon after. Plus, you said he was with his family recently which sounds challenging for him. My FA ex did the same after our last travel weekend together a few months ago when we were testing out reconciliation. But he still very much wants to be friends and pops up to try. Believe him about where he is, and try not to blame yourself for it. It isn't you, this is just what he can offer. Maybe you act AP sometimes, but it doesn't sound like anything would be any different if you didn't because he's not interested in doing his own work. Put yourself first and do what you have to do. Focus on what you need for your health, and don't be afraid of when the numbness wears off and the sadness starts to arrive. Internet hug! |
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