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Post by faithopelove on Oct 20, 2018 12:27:49 GMT
I would appreciate any experience you have in your AP/DA relationships. My DA ex has been showing deactivating behaviors for the past several months- I think he’s also depressed. I’ve stepped back and have not been reaching out the past week since he seems to want his space but he’s hard to read because he doesn’t communicate how he feels with words. He never said not to reach out, but he rarely initiates and his replies have been more clipped lately. He cited work lately as being the reason he’s exhausted. Is there a point in which a DA reaches out or do they generally let someone else take the initiative? I’ve been feeling less anxious in our space than I was previously but I still question when I should reach or shouldn’t reach out so I’m not acting out on my AP tendencies.
I’m wondering two things- since he’s withdrawing- should I wait for him to initiate contact or would it not be overwhelming to reach out every so often to check in? Are DA’s likely to resent the checking in? Also, if we’re talking, I’d eventually like to bring up Attachment styles to him but unsure how to do that in the most non-judgemental way that would not feel critical to him. Any advice on reaching out or how to approach education on attachment?
Thanks in advance for any insight 🙂
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Post by camper78 on Oct 20, 2018 15:11:46 GMT
Hmm. I’m never sure what to make about AP/DA posts where the 2 people are exes. Without more honest detail, it’s hard to know what kind of relationship exists between the 2 (how often and what kind of communication) and what the intentions are behind it.
Anyway, that’s my disclaimer because I don’t know if my reply will be helpful. I’m also not DA, I’m FA.
From my perspective, if you reached out very occasionally (IDK frequency but do not ‘pester’) just to say hi (literally keep it very short) with no pining emotions or expectations of a response, you may get a reply. At the same time you probably need to carry on with your own routines and try to put it out of your mind. Really let go of any expectations around his response.
Here’s where it’s very beneficial about getting clear in a very deep way about your motivations for doing this with your ex, and the reasons for that motivation. Only you know the answer to that. .
On that note, unless you really reconnect, you may want to leave the self help advice out of the picture. Those messages are best received when there is a truly open gateway for communication. You don’t know what is going on for him as he’s distancing - maybe it really is work stress, maybe it’s a combination of things. Those loving gestures of support can come across the wrong way to an avoidant if the timing or message is off.
That’s just me speaking from where I sit so pls take with a grain of salt. Others here have more experience with this dynamic.
Best of luck
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 20, 2018 15:48:04 GMT
Hmm. I’m never sure what to make about AP/DA posts where the 2 people are exes. Without more honest detail, it’s hard to know what kind of relationship exists between the 2 (how often and what kind of communication) and what the intentions are behind it. Anyway, that’s my disclaimer because I don’t know if my reply will be helpful. I’m also not DA, I’m FA. From my perspective, if you reached out very occasionally (IDK frequency but do not ‘pester’) just to say hi (literally keep it very short) with no pining emotions or expectations of a response, you may get a reply. At the same time you probably need to carry on with your own routines and try to put it out of your mind. Really let go of any expectations around his response. Here’s where it’s very beneficial about getting clear in a very deep way about your motivations for doing this with your ex, and the reasons for that motivation. Only you know the answer to that. . On that note, unless you really reconnect, you may want to leave the self help advice out of the picture. Those messages are best received when there is a truly open gateway for communication. You don’t know what is going on for him as he’s distancing - maybe it really is work stress, maybe it’s a combination of things. Those loving gestures of support can come across the wrong way to an avoidant is the timing or message is off. That’s just me speaking from where I sit so pls take with a grain of salt. Others here have more experience with this dynamic. Best of luck Thanks, Camper  I appreciate your insight. I’d like to reconcile but he feels incapable of being in a relationship so we’ve been casual since our break. That’s where we are now. Since the break, I try to keep texts short and mirror him. I reach out typically every few days but sometimes when he’s distancing, I pull back for a few weeks. I’ve learned he doesn’t respond to texts about our relationship so I try not to text about anything serious or pressure him. I prefer face to face communication and at times he’ll open up about his feelings when we’re together but only briefly and only when he initiates the conversation- which is why I’m reluctant to bring up attachment styles or anything relates to self-help. I’m thinking he’ll take it as a criticism and shut down if I bring it up...possibly if he brings something up then I can introduce another topic. We typically see other twice a month but that likely won’t happen if I don’t initiate contact. He’s a strong avoidant and walls are in place. Has a partner ever successfully brought up attachment to you or did you discover on your own? Thx again! |
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Post by andy on Oct 20, 2018 16:26:34 GMT
Thanks, Camper I appreciate your insight. I’d like to reconcile but he feels incapable of being in a relationship so we’ve been casual since our break. That’s where we are now. Since the break, I try to keep texts short and mirror him. I reach out typically every few days but sometimes when he’s distancing, I pull back for a few weeks. I’ve learned he doesn’t respond to texts about our relationship so I try not to text about anything serious or pressure him. I prefer face to face communication and at times he’ll open up about his feelings when we’re together but only briefly and only when he initiates the conversation- which is why I’m reluctant to bring up attachment styles or anything relates to self-help. I’m thinking he’ll take it as a criticism and shut down if I bring it up...possibly if he brings something up then I can introduce another topic. We typically see other twice a month but that likely won’t happen if I don’t initiate contact. He’s a strong avoidant and walls are in place. Has a partner ever successfully brought up attachment to you or did you discover on your own? Thx again! Hmm. I've been in an AP/DA dynamic (myself as AP) and can really relate to what you described as mirroring the other person's frequency of contact, backing off when they do, etc. I promised myself I would never do it again. Do you find it painful and stressful to be communicating with him on a schedule you believe he will tolerate rather than a schedule that authentically feels good to you? I say "believe he will tolerate" because all too often this kind of dynamic is fuelled by assumptions rather than open communication. It can be obvious and easy to see the ways DAs are not being open and authentic. But can you also see the signature AP mirroring behaviour as inauthentic? When I was engaged in it, I didn't realize at the time that it was an emotionally unavailable way to act. But now (thanks to the wisdom of folks here on the boards), I can see that I wasn't bringing my true, whole self to the connection because I was pretending to be content with something that actually really hurt me. There is also the aspect of trying to influence the other person's behaviour, trying to coax them to be the type of partner you want and deserve, through indirect (and likely totally unclear) communication and strategizing. Based on what I've learned from my own experience, I will never again try to keep someone in my life by using tactics rather than open communication. I do have compassion for myself regarding the way I handled the situation, and for anyone going through something similar. When you really care about someone, it can be terrifying to lay all your cards out on the table and be prepared to accept whatever their response is, including that they're not interested in any kind of connection. The stakes are so high, and breakups are a serious and deep type of loss. But there is also a feeling of empowerment that comes from that level of frankness, courage, and trust in yourself that you can accept the other person's response and move on with care and compassion for yourself. It is totally understandable and human to get stuck for a while and struggle to give up on the idea of reconciliation. I feel concerned to hear that your ex-DA is never the one to initiate contact. I believe that you deserve mutuality in a relationship and that there is likely to be a lot of pain ahead if you keep trying to get it from your ex by making guesses about his psychology and strategizing accordingly. It isn't a good foundation for closeness, and it sounds like he might not be an ideal candidate for reciprocating love? I wish you all good things: peace, deep love for yourself, and free-flowing love from another that you won't need to struggle for so much. You deserve it. ♡♡♡ |
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Post by camper78 on Oct 20, 2018 16:33:22 GMT
Well, tbh he's probably right about being incapable of being in a relationship (not just feeling incapable, he probably really is incapable). And I don't say that to be critical, I just mean that unless he's aware of what is coming between him and sustained intimate connection and is actually working on it, it will be very difficult for him to be in a stable and reciprocal relationship with you or anyone else over the long term.
But this is probably just pointing out the obvious- you are trying to help him with this awareness of course. He may sense or know (or just fear) that you want to reconcile so that is likely reinforcing his deactivation. Texting every few days and seeing each other a couple times a month seems like a lot of communication between exes, to me. I'm not saying it should be any different but it sounds like he is bracing against letting you in any further.
I split with my ex 4 months ago, we were essentially NC for about a month and a half and have been exchanging some texts over the last 5 weeks or so. I respond cautiously (I don't initiate because I am very afraid of causing more confusion and pain). What allows me to respond and not totally disappear is that she seems to know how to communicate with me - she has been honest about her feelings/intentions, she does not belabour the message and does not expect a reply (and actually says so in her message). I'm not suggesting this is the 'right' way to communicate or even healthy (I'm sure there is some dysfunction there too), but it's what enables me to stay in contact. Honest, limited, no expectations. That said, I am quite self-aware and am actively working on my attachment issues in a very focused and motivated way.
To your question - my ex-spouse was the one that introduced me to attachment theory and where I seem to sit on the spectrum. It came up as we were struggling through the end of our marriage. At first it was presented somewhat gently and I was receptive/curious, but as the separation went on and the dynamics played out with greater intensity, the more my nose was rubbed in it, the more I was pathologized as being selfish, 'broken' and even narcissistic. The more she pushed, the more I pulled. The end result was divorce.
I had to come back to attachment theory on my own, years later, and am only now truly doing the work. So being aware and actively working on it are two different things. Which is partly why I encourage you to let go of any agenda you may have for reconciling (which is not the same as holding space in your heart and caring for someone). it is a very long process and anyone hoping to heal from deep attachment wounds needs to be motivated by their own intentions.
Others may have a different perspective, but this is just my take based on my own experience.
-Camper78
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 20, 2018 17:06:48 GMT
Thanks, Camper I appreciate your insight. I’d like to reconcile but he feels incapable of being in a relationship so we’ve been casual since our break. That’s where we are now. Since the break, I try to keep texts short and mirror him. I reach out typically every few days but sometimes when he’s distancing, I pull back for a few weeks. I’ve learned he doesn’t respond to texts about our relationship so I try not to text about anything serious or pressure him. I prefer face to face communication and at times he’ll open up about his feelings when we’re together but only briefly and only when he initiates the conversation- which is why I’m reluctant to bring up attachment styles or anything relates to self-help. I’m thinking he’ll take it as a criticism and shut down if I bring it up...possibly if he brings something up then I can introduce another topic. We typically see other twice a month but that likely won’t happen if I don’t initiate contact. He’s a strong avoidant and walls are in place. Has a partner ever successfully brought up attachment to you or did you discover on your own? Thx again! Hmm. I've been in an AP/DA dynamic (myself as AP) and can really relate to what you described as mirroring the other person's frequency of contact, backing off when they do, etc. I promised myself I would never do it again. Do you find it painful and stressful to be communicating with him on a schedule you believe he will tolerate rather than a schedule that authentically feels good to you? I say "believe he will tolerate" because all too often this kind of dynamic is fuelled by assumptions rather than open communication. It can be obvious and easy to see the ways DAs are not being open and authentic. But can you also see the signature AP mirroring behaviour as inauthentic? When I was engaged in it, I didn't realize at the time that it was an emotionally unavailable way to act. But now (thanks to the wisdom of folks here on the boards), I can see that I wasn't bringing my true, whole self to the connection because I was pretending to be content with something that actually really hurt me. There is also the aspect of trying to influence the other person's behaviour, trying to coax them to be the type of partner you want and deserve, through indirect (and likely totally unclear) communication and strategizing. Based on what I've learned from my own experience, I will never again try to keep someone in my life by using tactics rather than open communication. I do have compassion for myself regarding the way I handled the situation, and for anyone going through something similar. When you really care about someone, it can be terrifying to lay all your cards out on the table and be prepared to accept whatever their response is, including that they're not interested in any kind of connection. The stakes are so high, and breakups are a serious and deep type of loss. But there is also a feeling of empowerment that comes from that level of frankness, courage, and trust in yourself that you can accept the other person's response and move on with care and compassion for yourself. It is totally understandable and human to get stuck for a while and struggle to give up on the idea of reconciliation. I feel concerned to hear that your ex-DA is never the one to initiate contact. I believe that you deserve mutuality in a relationship and that there is likely to be a lot of pain ahead if you keep trying to get it from your ex by making guesses about his psychology and strategizing accordingly. It isn't a good foundation for closeness, and it sounds like he might not be an ideal candidate for reciprocating love? I wish you all good things: peace, deep love for yourself, and free-flowing love from another that you won't need to struggle for so much. You deserve it. ♡♡♡ Andy, thanks for your response 💗 Painful yes, but I try not to take things personally. Try- I don’t always succeed. I usually am direct in a relationship about my feelings and was in the past with S but once he distanced and broke up with me, I learned that opening up about my feelings only shut him down more. I would like there to be open communication but he’s very uncomfortable with that. He’s avoidant and depressed so he definitely is feeling overwhelmed and not motivated. I’ve communicated a number of times about my feelings and he either won’t respond, if I used texting, or in person he’ll withdraw. I know this push/pull dynamic takes two and my AP behavior caused him to doubt us so I’m trying to meet him where he is and not cause further shut down. I’d like to foster trust and communication but unsure how to do that in a way he’ll receive it. We’ve honestly both put our cards on the table about how we feel- I’d like to make it work and he feels there’s “something wrong with him.” So, I’m in a kind of limbo- he’s kind of just living his life although he’s very isolated and unhappy. That’s why I’d like to bring up attachment styles- to get us in a better place emotionally and with communication but it will likely feel like criticism to him...and being an ex girlfriend and not a girlfriend doesn’t give me as much influence in his life. He’s a different person now. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 20, 2018 17:19:45 GMT
Well, tbh he's probably right about being incapable of being in a relationship (not just feeling incapable, he probably really is incapable). And I don't say that to be critical, I just mean that unless he's aware of what is coming between him and sustained intimate connection and is actually working on it, it will be very difficult for him to be in a stable and reciprocal relationship with you or anyone else over the long term. But this is probably just pointing out the obvious- you are trying to help him with this awareness of course. He may sense or know (or just fear) that you want to reconcile so that is likely reinforcing his deactivation. Texting every few days and seeing each other a couple times a month seems like a lot of communication between exes, to me. I'm not saying it should be any different but it sounds like he is bracing against letting you in any further. I split with my ex 4 months ago, we were essentially NC for about a month and a half and have been exchanging some texts over the last 5 weeks or so. I respond cautiously (I don't initiate because I am very afraid of causing more confusion and pain). What allows me to respond and not totally disappear is that she seems to know how to communicate with me - she has been honest about her feelings/intentions, she does not belabour the message and does not expect a reply (and actually says so in her message). I'm not suggesting this is the 'right' way to communicate or even healthy (I'm sure there is some dysfunction there too), but it's what enables me to stay in contact. Honest, limited, no expectations. That said, I am quite self-aware and am actively working on my attachment issues in a very focused and motivated way. To your question - my ex-spouse was the one that introduced me to attachment theory and where I seem to sit on the spectrum. It came up as we were struggling through the end of our marriage. At first it was presented somewhat gently and I was receptive/curious, but as the separation went on and the dynamics played out with greater intensity, the more my nose was rubbed in it, the more I was pathologized as being selfish, 'broken' and even narcissistic. The more she pushed, the more I pulled. The end result was divorce. I had to come back to attachment theory on my own, years later, and am only now truly doing the work. So being aware and actively working on it are two different things. Which is partly why I encourage you to let go of any agenda you may have for reconciling (which is not the same as holding space in your heart and caring for someone). it is a very long process and anyone hoping to heal from deep attachment wounds needs to be motivated by their own intentions. Others may have a different perspective, but this is just my take based on my own experience. -Camper78 Thank you, Camper...everything you said makes sense. I also feel S doesn’t initiate contact bc he’s very careful to never string me along or give me false hope about us. Also with our communication- I feel he’s ok with it for the same reasons. Honest, limited and no expectations. That makes him feel the most safe- if the message has an agenda, convincing in nature at all, he doesn’t reply. He’s very much shut down so I don’t even know if I should just leave him alone at this point. I’d like him to explore help but so far he won’t. As a DA, I don’t feel he’ll come back around which puts me squarely in pursuer mode, which I really don’t like... |
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Post by epicgum on Oct 20, 2018 17:31:09 GMT
Hmm. I've been in an AP/DA dynamic (myself as AP) and can really relate to what you described as mirroring the other person's frequency of contact, backing off when they do, etc. I promised myself I would never do it again. Do you find it painful and stressful to be communicating with him on a schedule you believe he will tolerate rather than a schedule that authentically feels good to you? I say "believe he will tolerate" because all too often this kind of dynamic is fuelled by assumptions rather than open communication. It can be obvious and easy to see the ways DAs are not being open and authentic. But can you also see the signature AP mirroring behaviour as inauthentic? When I was engaged in it, I didn't realize at the time that it was an emotionally unavailable way to act. But now (thanks to the wisdom of folks here on the boards), I can see that I wasn't bringing my true, whole self to the connection because I was pretending to be content with something that actually really hurt me. There is also the aspect of trying to influence the other person's behaviour, trying to coax them to be the type of partner you want and deserve, through indirect (and likely totally unclear) communication and strategizing. Based on what I've learned from my own experience, I will never again try to keep someone in my life by using tactics rather than open communication. I do have compassion for myself regarding the way I handled the situation, and for anyone going through something similar. When you really care about someone, it can be terrifying to lay all your cards out on the table and be prepared to accept whatever their response is, including that they're not interested in any kind of connection. The stakes are so high, and breakups are a serious and deep type of loss. But there is also a feeling of empowerment that comes from that level of frankness, courage, and trust in yourself that you can accept the other person's response and move on with care and compassion for yourself. It is totally understandable and human to get stuck for a while and struggle to give up on the idea of reconciliation. I feel concerned to hear that your ex-DA is never the one to initiate contact. I believe that you deserve mutuality in a relationship and that there is likely to be a lot of pain ahead if you keep trying to get it from your ex by making guesses about his psychology and strategizing accordingly. It isn't a good foundation for closeness, and it sounds like he might not be an ideal candidate for reciprocating love? I wish you all good things: peace, deep love for yourself, and free-flowing love from another that you won't need to struggle for so much. You deserve it. ♡♡♡ Andy, thanks for your response 💗 Painful yes, but I try not to take things personally. Try- I don’t always succeed. I usually am direct in a relationship about my feelings and was in the past with S but once he distanced and broke up with me, I learned that opening up about my feelings only shut him down more. I would like there to be open communication but he’s very uncomfortable with that. He’s avoidant and depressed so he definitely is feeling overwhelmed and not motivated. I’ve communicated a number of times about my feelings and he either won’t respond, if I used texting, or in person he’ll withdraw. I know this push/pull dynamic takes two and my AP behavior caused him to doubt us so I’m trying to meet him where he is and not cause further shut down. I’d like to foster trust and communication but unsure how to do that in a way he’ll receive it. We’ve honestly both put our cards on the table about how we feel- I’d like to make it work and he feels there’s “something wrong with him.” So, I’m in a kind of limbo- he’s kind of just living his life although he’s very isolated and unhappy. That’s why I’d like to bring up attachment styles- to get us in a better place emotionally and with communication but it will likely feel like criticism to him...and being an ex girlfriend and not a girlfriend doesn’t give me as much influence in his life. He’s a different person now. Im more FA, but for what it's worth, my script for these "feelings" conversations went something along the lines of: She: "I'm falling for you!" Me: (interior monologue: this is overoverwhelming me, all of these expectations, shes going to fall for me, I can't catch her. I'm damaged, I can't give her what she wants, she is going to find out the truth and abandon me. Help!) Me: "Why are you doing this to me?" |
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Post by epicgum on Oct 20, 2018 17:46:37 GMT
Well, tbh he's probably right about being incapable of being in a relationship (not just feeling incapable, he probably really is incapable). And I don't say that to be critical, I just mean that unless he's aware of what is coming between him and sustained intimate connection and is actually working on it, it will be very difficult for him to be in a stable and reciprocal relationship with you or anyone else over the long term. But this is probably just pointing out the obvious- you are trying to help him with this awareness of course. He may sense or know (or just fear) that you want to reconcile so that is likely reinforcing his deactivation. Texting every few days and seeing each other a couple times a month seems like a lot of communication between exes, to me. I'm not saying it should be any different but it sounds like he is bracing against letting you in any further. I split with my ex 4 months ago, we were essentially NC for about a month and a half and have been exchanging some texts over the last 5 weeks or so. I respond cautiously (I don't initiate because I am very afraid of causing more confusion and pain). What allows me to respond and not totally disappear is that she seems to know how to communicate with me - she has been honest about her feelings/intentions, she does not belabour the message and does not expect a reply (and actually says so in her message). I'm not suggesting this is the 'right' way to communicate or even healthy (I'm sure there is some dysfunction there too), but it's what enables me to stay in contact. Honest, limited, no expectations. That said, I am quite self-aware and am actively working on my attachment issues in a very focused and motivated way. To your question - my ex-spouse was the one that introduced me to attachment theory and where I seem to sit on the spectrum. It came up as we were struggling through the end of our marriage. At first it was presented somewhat gently and I was receptive/curious, but as the separation went on and the dynamics played out with greater intensity, the more my nose was rubbed in it, the more I was pathologized as being selfish, 'broken' and even narcissistic. The more she pushed, the more I pulled. The end result was divorce. I had to come back to attachment theory on my own, years later, and am only now truly doing the work. So being aware and actively working on it are two different things. Which is partly why I encourage you to let go of any agenda you may have for reconciling (which is not the same as holding space in your heart and caring for someone). it is a very long process and anyone hoping to heal from deep attachment wounds needs to be motivated by their own intentions. Others may have a different perspective, but this is just my take based on my own experience. -Camper78 Camper I love your posts. How would you distinguish 'awareness' from 'doing the work' in your own journey? (As i am probably at 'awareness' stage) |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 20, 2018 18:01:59 GMT
Andy, thanks for your response 💗 Painful yes, but I try not to take things personally. Try- I don’t always succeed. I usually am direct in a relationship about my feelings and was in the past with S but once he distanced and broke up with me, I learned that opening up about my feelings only shut him down more. I would like there to be open communication but he’s very uncomfortable with that. He’s avoidant and depressed so he definitely is feeling overwhelmed and not motivated. I’ve communicated a number of times about my feelings and he either won’t respond, if I used texting, or in person he’ll withdraw. I know this push/pull dynamic takes two and my AP behavior caused him to doubt us so I’m trying to meet him where he is and not cause further shut down. I’d like to foster trust and communication but unsure how to do that in a way he’ll receive it. We’ve honestly both put our cards on the table about how we feel- I’d like to make it work and he feels there’s “something wrong with him.” So, I’m in a kind of limbo- he’s kind of just living his life although he’s very isolated and unhappy. That’s why I’d like to bring up attachment styles- to get us in a better place emotionally and with communication but it will likely feel like criticism to him...and being an ex girlfriend and not a girlfriend doesn’t give me as much influence in his life. He’s a different person now. Im more FA, but for what it's worth, my script for these "feelings" conversations went something along the lines of: She: "I'm falling for you!" Me: (interior monologue: this is overoverwhelming me, all of these expectations, shes going to fall for me, I can't catch her. I'm damaged, I can't give her what she wants, she is going to find out the truth and abandon me. Help!) Me: "Why are you doing this to me?" Hey, Epic...thanks- hope you’re well. I feel I’m this distancing state he’d probably feel the same way.... “Why is she doing this?” All very confusing to me bc initially, he’s the one who pursued me, said he want me by his side everywhere he went, he pushed for us to be exclusive- he wanted to be “all in” when I felt it was too early!! He wanted to marry me and said he loved me 10 times a day- I never felt more in love or connected with someone in my life. I adored him. Still do. Then at 6 months and a few conflicts and my anxiety flaring up, he started pulling away, having doubts and shutting down. I used to think he was a FA based on the way he presented the first 6 months but the way he’s been shut down for almost a year now I think he’s very much DA. I still haven’t given up hope. I still believe and I’m praying for a miracle.I’ll only accept he’s done if he moves on with someone else. He told me in the break it was me or no one. He’s choosing isolation currently with conjucal visits from me. Enabling? It’s the only way he’ll allow me to be there so I’ve been accepting it. Again...I’ve been conflicted. 🤷♀️ |
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Post by epicgum on Oct 20, 2018 18:13:22 GMT
Im more FA, but for what it's worth, my script for these "feelings" conversations went something along the lines of: She: "I'm falling for you!" Me: (interior monologue: this is overoverwhelming me, all of these expectations, shes going to fall for me, I can't catch her. I'm damaged, I can't give her what she wants, she is going to find out the truth and abandon me. Help!) Me: "Why are you doing this to me?" Hey, Epic...thanks- hope you’re well. I feel I’m this distancing state he’d probably feel the same way.... “Why is she doing this?” All very confusing to me bc initially, he’s the one who pursued me, said he want me by his side everywhere he went, he pushed for us to be exclusive- he wanted to be “all in” when I felt it was too early!! He wanted to marry me and said he loved me 10 times a day- I never felt more in love or connected with someone in my life. I adored him. Still do. Then at 6 months and a few conflicts and my anxiety flaring up, he started pulling away, having doubts and shutting down. I used to think he was a FA based on the way he presented the first 6 months but the way he’s been shut down for almost a year now I think he’s very much DA. I still haven’t given up hope. I still believe and I’m praying for a miracle.I’ll only accept he’s done if he moves on with someone else. He told me in the break it was me or no one. He’s choosing isolation currently with conjucal visits from me. Enabling? It’s the only way he’ll allow me to be there so I’ve been accepting it. Again...I’ve been conflicted. 🤷♀️ I can roughly identify with that timeline. It was probably 6 months into our relationship I woke up in a panic next to her and thought (for no real reason) "omg what am I doing here with this girl in her apartment, is this the right thing? What am I doing?" and she was like "whats wrong" and I was like "nothing!" Reading and thinking about this, it really comes back to a lack of confidence in your self and your own choices right? If I was confident in my own ability to pick someone, then why was I suddenly second guessing myself. You seem to try to want to share stuff with him and I can totally relate to him not wanting to feel pathologized... but at the same time, I would have been pretty receptive to this stuff had it been shared with me in a loving fashion, cause I knew something was wrong with me, and I just didn't want to find out, didn't think there was anything that I could do and didn't trust that my partner would still be there for me of I opened up in that sense. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 20, 2018 18:32:42 GMT
Hey, Epic...thanks- hope you’re well. I feel I’m this distancing state he’d probably feel the same way.... “Why is she doing this?” All very confusing to me bc initially, he’s the one who pursued me, said he want me by his side everywhere he went, he pushed for us to be exclusive- he wanted to be “all in” when I felt it was too early!! He wanted to marry me and said he loved me 10 times a day- I never felt more in love or connected with someone in my life. I adored him. Still do. Then at 6 months and a few conflicts and my anxiety flaring up, he started pulling away, having doubts and shutting down. I used to think he was a FA based on the way he presented the first 6 months but the way he’s been shut down for almost a year now I think he’s very much DA. I still haven’t given up hope. I still believe and I’m praying for a miracle.I’ll only accept he’s done if he moves on with someone else. He told me in the break it was me or no one. He’s choosing isolation currently with conjucal visits from me. Enabling? It’s the only way he’ll allow me to be there so I’ve been accepting it. Again...I’ve been conflicted. 🤷♀️ I can roughly identify with that timeline. It was probably 6 months into our relationship I woke up in a panic next to her and thought (for no real reason) "omg what am I doing here with this girl in her apartment, is this the right thing? What am I doing?" and she was like "whats wrong" and I was like "nothing!" Reading and thinking about this, it really comes back to a lack of confidence in your self and your own choices right? If I was confident in my own ability to pick someone, then why was I suddenly second guessing myself. You seem to try to want to share stuff with him and I can totally relate to him not wanting to feel pathologized... but at the same time, I would have been pretty receptive to this stuff had it been shared with me in a loving fashion, cause I knew something was wrong with me, and I just didn't want to find out, didn't think there was anything that I could do and didn't trust that my partner would still be there for me of I opened up in that sense. Epic: You sound a lot alike. My ex said that exact thing to me one night after we were together- he said, “There’s something wrong with me but I don’t know what it is.” He’ll make a statement like that and give me a glimpse into himself, but he drops the statement from out of nowhere it seems and moves on...it’s not open to further discussion. And I never know how to respond. He’s also told me several times since our split that he’s “not perfect.” I’ve said that’s ok, I accept you anyway. I’m not perfect either. I’ve also said I think you’re the most amazing person I ever met, but he doesn’t respond to any of that. He’s also told me I have no idea how “bad off he is.” All these revelations into himself were after we were intimate- he’ll never discuss in a text. He seems most open and relaxed after we’re intimate together. So if I stop the sex he may never talk again! Ugh...I agonize over all of this. I do love him dearly and you said you would’ve been open to discuss? I think he’s more closed off than you. I’m not sure how to proceed with him...in the hopes of building trust and well-being. What would you want from a girlfriend you pushed away? How do you best build trust and accept support? He’s admitted he has a hard time trusting....and doesn’t talk about his needs. He thinks they don’t matter to anyone. |
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Post by epicgum on Oct 20, 2018 20:06:07 GMT
I can roughly identify with that timeline. It was probably 6 months into our relationship I woke up in a panic next to her and thought (for no real reason) "omg what am I doing here with this girl in her apartment, is this the right thing? What am I doing?" and she was like "whats wrong" and I was like "nothing!" Reading and thinking about this, it really comes back to a lack of confidence in your self and your own choices right? If I was confident in my own ability to pick someone, then why was I suddenly second guessing myself. You seem to try to want to share stuff with him and I can totally relate to him not wanting to feel pathologized... but at the same time, I would have been pretty receptive to this stuff had it been shared with me in a loving fashion, cause I knew something was wrong with me, and I just didn't want to find out, didn't think there was anything that I could do and didn't trust that my partner would still be there for me of I opened up in that sense. Epic: You sound a lot alike. My ex said that exact thing to me one night after we were together- he said, “There’s something wrong with me but I don’t know what it is.” He’ll make a statement like that and give me a glimpse into himself, but he drops the statement from out of nowhere it seems and moves on...it’s not open to further discussion. And I never know how to respond. He’s also told me several times since our split that he’s “not perfect.” I’ve said that’s ok, I accept you anyway. I’m not perfect either. I’ve also said I think you’re the most amazing person I ever met, but he doesn’t respond to any of that. He’s also told me I have no idea how “bad off he is.” All these revelations into himself were after we were intimate- he’ll never discuss in a text. He seems most open and relaxed after we’re intimate together. So if I stop the sex he may never talk again! Ugh...I agonize over all of this. I do love him dearly and you said you would’ve been open to discuss? I think he’s more closed off than you. I’m not sure how to proceed with him...in the hopes of building trust and well-being. What would you want from a girlfriend you pushed away? How do you best build trust and accept support? He’s admitted he has a hard time trusting....and doesn’t talk about his needs. He thinks they don’t matter to anyone. I have kind of limited romantic experience, But from a girl that was chasing me that I had broken up with/pushed away. (My 2nd gf would fall in that category, current exgf I am obviously pining over her...) What would have helped her get back close to me would have been to feel like she was fine on her own and that she was reaching out to me from a place of strength and competence. This woman may have had some other issues aside from anxious attachment (BPD possibly) but in our case she was self-harming and toward the end of our relationship attempted suicide. I was totally overwhelmed trying, and failing, to understand and sooth her and then also having her chase me constantly as well as dealing with my own impulse (and sometimes actions) to flee connection, which wasn't helping her at all. I was pretty much done and releaved after we broke up and had moved to a new city after college, but we were still texting/trying to be friends (because she had become one of my closest friends while we were dating). Unfortunately she was still attached to me and getting "breadcrumbs" from my communication and at one point when I forgot my phone and did not reply she went into a rage-text storm and then, I assume, deleted my number. Had she been able to calm down and get better on her own and reach out to me from a place where I did not feel threatened by her needs, possibly the relationship could have been rebuilt. I say possibly, because to be honest, I was pretty emotionally unavailable at the time from the trauma of the events and also from the lingering effects of a 5yr breakup the year before that I had not totally healed from, so even in the best case I don't know how able I would have been. |
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Post by camper78 on Oct 20, 2018 20:10:57 GMT
faithopelove , I realize this comment was directed to epicgum , but FWIW I offer the following (and then that's all I'll say  From what you describe, it sounds like you are deep in the FA/AP dynamic and it is not getting either of you to a place where you feel good about yourselves. I'd suggest that what you experienced in the first 6 months of your relationship was for the most part, limerance. The feeling of being drunk on love, obsessive thinking/acting, etc. I don't doubt that you experienced many moments of true intimacy as well, but (not to diminish the power of that connection), while you were getting to know this wonderful human being, you were also (pronbably) very high on oxytocin. Both of you were. I will speak for myself as an FA, but maybe your S is a bit like this, too. When I start to come down off the love-high and I 'wake up' (figuratively or literally as epicgum did), I panic because I've set up all this expectation for sustained intimacy but I can't maintain it because the wounds and negative narratives are still there. And then all the old triggers and all the old tricks come back and it eventually erodes the connection between me and my person to the point where the relationship is no longer nourishing or viable. It can be deeply depressing to experience this and it makes me want to hide in my cave like the Phantom of the Opera. Something you said jumped out at me, so with kindness I'll present it back to you to see if something resonates or could be of benefit: I still haven’t given up hope. I still believe and I’m praying for a miracle. I’ll only accept he’s done if he moves on with someone else. He told me in the break it was me or no one. He’s choosing isolation currently with conjucal visits from me. Enabling? It’s the only way he’ll allow me to be there so I’ve been accepting it. Again...I’ve been conflicted.Really? Could you really accept it if he moved on to someone else, after all that he's said about his feelings for you and his own emotional limitations? Ex BF aside, please consider how your own motivations and actions are keeping you trapped in this dynamic and how your own motivations and actions can be the ones to set you free. Here is another way to look at it, given that you are exes and are not able to connect or even communicate with each other for different reasons: what do you really stand to lose if you were to tell him that the pattern is not working for you (it's not, you are staying because you fear losing him, but you don't even 'have' him), and that for your own growth you need to let go of the relationship as it exists right now? You can still express your care for him while letting him know that the looping is not helping you to grow or move forward in dealing with your own attachment issues, and for that reason you have to step out of this pattern. You can do this in a way that helps him feel seen for who he is, struggles and all, and you can gently bring up the concept of attachment theory, in the context of your own issues and desire to understand them better. No ploys, no ulterior motives. But - if you do this, you have to mean it in your heart. You have to really be willing to say it with no expectations or agendas. This is not reverse psychology. It has to be sincere..your words and your actions have to align or he will sense it and nothing much will have changed. You have to mean it in your heart for you, as much as you do for him. i'm really sorry you're both suffering this way. These are terrible problems that are not easily solved.. so much pain. But try taking your hands off the controls and focus your heart on tuning in to the reasons for your own pain and what the way forward could be. You could just try it and see what happens. hugs -Camper78
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Post by camper78 on Oct 20, 2018 20:37:36 GMT
epicgum , I would say that for me, the difference between 'awareness' and 'the work' comes down to identifying what I can do to deepen my understanding and change my habits. For me I feel like I need a reasonable plan of action (3-4 things I can commit to) that will help me with the understanding/awareness and with the practice. Otherwise it's just ruminating.. it's just mental looping. And then, of course, you have to actually do it: - Make time in your day for contemplation/grounding.
- Reduce emotional clutter and negativity wherever possible.
- Prioritize self-care so that you have energy to put into the work.
- Reflect (not obsess) often and remember frequently the reasons why you care about changing your habits.
- Connect with others you can talk to (counsellor, friend, etc) because while it is inner work, it can't all be done alone. Attachment issues are inter-personal issues after all.
- Be kind to yourself. Recognize that this is not something that will change quickly or easily and that's ok - you are committing to a long journey but one worth taking.
This is just where I am right now and I have A LOT to learn. I'm sure there are many roads that can be followed and many ways of doing. Keep listening to what your heart is really asking for and I think it will start showing you the way. -Camper78
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