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Post by boomerang on Nov 10, 2018 1:45:44 GMT
Yes, I cannot second this enough to get the other person out of the fishbowl. My ex was constantly trying to analyze my mood, worried constantly about me over nothing, made up stories in his head about what I was doing, and thinking. It was very burdensome to be the focus and the cause of his emotional state. Plus the stories ended up with him making assumptions about me that were so wrong. It seemed to me he was always coming out of left field. I actually didn't even realize this was all happening until the end of the relationship and from reading on this forum about this thought process. I didn't even realize that I was retreating more and more over the years. yes. this is extremely intrusive behavior. it's so toxic. i've endured the same and it made me feel just disgusted and done. that's why i wrote protest behavior (which is negative and controlling and causes me to be in a horrible mood) + asking about my mood, ever = ewwwwwww people can doubt how much of an impact that has, that's ok. i have never experienced that again in my life. i would not put up with the mind reading and mood scoping ever again.. it's just awful to be the target of it. I don't at all doubt the impact of that. I am AP and I would hate it if someone were always probing about my mood. It is one thing when someone asks if I'm OK--that's welcome. It's another if I feel someone's pestering for reasons that are all about them. I get it! |
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 10, 2018 6:04:33 GMT
I find that my interactions with B work better when I hold no expectations but just try to enjoy the moment and treat the anxiety as something to be addressed in my journal after he leaves. I do find this is getting easier now that I am more stable....but....my AP mindset will tend to be the first reaction to anything and overanalyzing and wanting to know things will always be something I will struggle with internally. What I keep reminding myself is that...my internal state is driving my interpretation of his external/internal state and my ability to read his mind is quite broken...so I do my best to remind myself that it will be ok, even if I am not perfect, even if he doesn't act/react or respond the way I want him to, even if he doesn't provide the reassurance I sometimes feel I desperately need (internally based)....it will be ok. I know you have come so far on your self awareness and that is an awesome thing to be so very proud of....just keeping moving forward...even if it feels like hell at times and even if it feels like a step back....just know that nothing is wasted in your journey....HUGS. tnr9!  thank you 🌸 I feel the same- no expectations when I’m with S and live in the feel good moment. It’s a great way to squish expectations and possible upset and anxiety regarding the expectations. No plans. Just enjoy each other. Let it BE. This all went against my natural grain to plan, overanalyze and speculate...behaviors that were probably all induced by anxiety. When I let go and enjoy the moment, it feels SO liberating. It feels the opposite of anxiety. It feels light and easy. Freedom. No chains. I never had that growing up, I wasn’t even liberated as a child. No fun or laughter. No care free moments. Ever. As far back as I can remember I was an extremely anxious, withdrawn and fearful child- completely without emotion or expression. Deadpan. As I grew up I learned acceptable social graces and seemingly appropriate ways to interact but it was still all there below the surface. Living in the moment is a delicious and joyous way to live- and when that self-love is flowing strong and pouring out...it’s hard to find fault with anyone or do anything besides appreciate, praise, encourage and love our fellow humans. I don’t want to feel anxious and be negative or critical to myself or others and our exes and any partners don’t want to be judged or held accountable for own internal state, so it’s a win/win to let it all go! Thanks for your comments. I think being in proximity with S and B may be a good training ground for us to release control and embrace spontaneity and joy. Enjoy now, journal later. I love it!🌺 🌺🌸🌺🌺 |
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 10, 2018 10:47:52 GMT
I find that my interactions with B work better when I hold no expectations but just try to enjoy the moment and treat the anxiety as something to be addressed in my journal after he leaves. I do find this is getting easier now that I am more stable....but....my AP mindset will tend to be the first reaction to anything and overanalyzing and wanting to know things will always be something I will struggle with internally. What I keep reminding myself is that...my internal state is driving my interpretation of his external/internal state and my ability to read his mind is quite broken...so I do my best to remind myself that it will be ok, even if I am not perfect, even if he doesn't act/react or respond the way I want him to, even if he doesn't provide the reassurance I sometimes feel I desperately need (internally based)....it will be ok. I know you have come so far on your self awareness and that is an awesome thing to be so very proud of....just keeping moving forward...even if it feels like hell at times and even if it feels like a step back....just know that nothing is wasted in your journey....HUGS. tnr9! thank you 🌸 I feel the same- no expectations when I’m with S and live in the feel good moment. It’s a great way to squish expectations and possible upset and anxiety regarding the expectations. No plans. Just enjoy each other. Let it BE. This all went against my natural grain to plan, overanalyze and speculate...behaviors that were probably all induced by anxiety. When I let go and enjoy the moment, it feels SO liberating. It feels the opposite of anxiety. It feels light and easy. Freedom. No chains. I never had that growing up, I wasn’t even liberated as a child. No fun or laughter. No care free moments. Ever. As far back as I can remember I was an extremely anxious, withdrawn and fearful child- completely without emotion or expression. Deadpan. As I grew up I learned acceptable social graces and seemingly appropriate ways to interact but it was still all there below the surface. Living in the moment is a delicious and joyous way to live- and when that self-love is flowing strong and pouring out...it’s hard to find fault with anyone or do anything besides appreciate, praise, encourage and love our fellow humans. I don’t want to feel anxious and be negative or critical to myself or others and our exes and any partners don’t want to be judged or held accountable for own internal state, so it’s a win/win to let it all go! Thanks for your comments. I think being in proximity with S and B may be a good training ground for us to release control and embrace spontaneity and joy. Enjoy now, journal later. I love it!🌺 🌺🌸🌺🌺 Yes...I think our drive is lack...I think that is the common thread for APs.....I still mean to circle back to an earlier post I started on the subject....we have been conditioned in a sense to expect to be disappointed and rejected/abandoned but our hope is so very strong. I think we need to cherish that hope but direct it towards places where it will be filled time and time again. We need people who are safe to practice being authentic so we can see that it is not us that is the problem ,but the lack mindset. To the end....I am starting to really ponder "enoughness". What is enough for me? For instance...i crave consistency but haven't defined what enough consistency is....and when I get a lot of consistency in some areas...loyalty, care etc., how can I then stop automatically thinking that if i don't get consistency in say...text messages...that that somehow invalidates the abundance of consistency already provided. Just really trying to ponder this since it seems to drive so much of my thinking. BTW....i don't remember ever having joy as a child....it was always serious, always sad, always empty....and it felt like there was not enough of anything to go around emotionally speaking. So I have this "if I am not getting it from X, then someone else is" mentality that is so paranoid and mistrusting, yet it came from a place of wounding and desperation to be seen, heard and loved...so I am not mad at myself...I just want to show myself that I have intrinsic value that is worthy to be seen, heard and loved.....that I don't have to manipulate, protest, worry, people please, check in order to find and keep love...but there is sooo much entrenched patterns...so it goes at a very slow pace. I am glad you are discovering freedom in the moment too..such a great change to focus on the good.❤️❤️ |
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Post by blueunif on Nov 10, 2018 11:08:01 GMT
So not sure if I should've started a new thread but here goes...
As some of you may / not know, my DA is still deactivated. On a knife edge at the moment where our 20 year marriage could be at the start of its end. I'm trying so hard to not tamper / deactivate my DA further (eggshells!) but I'm hurting like hell. And the question remains about how, when, if to reach out. So hard to know what is real - is he really trying to finish it (but breadcrumbing!)? And how could I ever know this....what is real and what is my AP interpretation of events!?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 14:26:52 GMT
So not sure if I should've started a new thread but here goes... As some of you may / not know, my DA is still deactivated. On a knife edge at the moment where our 20 year marriage could be at the start of its end. I'm trying so hard to not tamper / deactivate my DA further (eggshells!) but I'm hurting like hell. And the question remains about how, when, if to reach out. So hard to know what is real - is he really trying to finish it (but breadcrumbing!)? And how could I ever know this....what is real and what is my AP interpretation of events!? man, i'm sorry to read this, maybe you could start a new thread so we understand a little better what's going on and your thought processes around it, so we know how best to support you? 🌸 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 15:43:40 GMT
tnr9! thank you 🌸 I feel the same- no expectations when I’m with S and live in the feel good moment. It’s a great way to squish expectations and possible upset and anxiety regarding the expectations. No plans. Just enjoy each other. Let it BE. This all went against my natural grain to plan, overanalyze and speculate...behaviors that were probably all induced by anxiety. When I let go and enjoy the moment, it feels SO liberating. It feels the opposite of anxiety. It feels light and easy. Freedom. No chains. I never had that growing up, I wasn’t even liberated as a child. No fun or laughter. No care free moments. Ever. As far back as I can remember I was an extremely anxious, withdrawn and fearful child- completely without emotion or expression. Deadpan. As I grew up I learned acceptable social graces and seemingly appropriate ways to interact but it was still all there below the surface. Living in the moment is a delicious and joyous way to live- and when that self-love is flowing strong and pouring out...it’s hard to find fault with anyone or do anything besides appreciate, praise, encourage and love our fellow humans. I don’t want to feel anxious and be negative or critical to myself or others and our exes and any partners don’t want to be judged or held accountable for own internal state, so it’s a win/win to let it all go! Thanks for your comments. I think being in proximity with S and B may be a good training ground for us to release control and embrace spontaneity and joy. Enjoy now, journal later. I love it!🌺 🌺🌸🌺🌺 Yes...I think our drive is lack...I think that is the common thread for APs.....I still mean to circle back to an earlier post I started on the subject....we have been conditioned in a sense to expect to be disappointed and rejected/abandoned but our hope is so very strong. I think we need to cherish that hope but direct it towards places where it will be filled time and time again. We need people who are safe to practice being authentic so we can see that it is not us that is the problem ,but the lack mindset. To the end....I am starting to really ponder "enoughness". What is enough for me? For instance...i crave consistency but haven't defined what enough consistency is....and when I get a lot of consistency in some areas...loyalty, care etc., how can I then stop automatically thinking that if i don't get consistency in say...text messages...that that somehow invalidates the abundance of consistency already provided. Just really trying to ponder this since it seems to drive so much of my thinking. BTW....i don't remember ever having joy as a child....it was always serious, always sad, always empty....and it felt like there was not enough of anything to go around emotionally speaking. So I have this "if I am not getting it from X, then someone else is" mentality that is so paranoid and mistrusting, yet it came from a place of wounding and desperation to be seen, heard and loved...so I am not mad at myself...I just want to show myself that I have intrinsic value that is worthy to be seen, heard and loved.....that I don't have to manipulate, protest, worry, people please, check in order to find and keep love...but there is sooo much entrenched patterns...so it goes at a very slow pace. I am glad you are discovering freedom in the moment too..such a great change to focus on the good.❤️❤️ I can relate to the empty feeling of your childhood. I think mine was filled with a lot of fear and powerlessness and then emptiness. I always say hope is powerful and probably something I lack, which contributes to being DA rather than AP. Hold onto the hope |
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 10, 2018 19:36:18 GMT
Yes...I think our drive is lack...I think that is the common thread for APs.....I still mean to circle back to an earlier post I started on the subject....we have been conditioned in a sense to expect to be disappointed and rejected/abandoned but our hope is so very strong. I think we need to cherish that hope but direct it towards places where it will be filled time and time again. We need people who are safe to practice being authentic so we can see that it is not us that is the problem ,but the lack mindset. To the end....I am starting to really ponder "enoughness". What is enough for me? For instance...i crave consistency but haven't defined what enough consistency is....and when I get a lot of consistency in some areas...loyalty, care etc., how can I then stop automatically thinking that if i don't get consistency in say...text messages...that that somehow invalidates the abundance of consistency already provided. Just really trying to ponder this since it seems to drive so much of my thinking. BTW....i don't remember ever having joy as a child....it was always serious, always sad, always empty....and it felt like there was not enough of anything to go around emotionally speaking. So I have this "if I am not getting it from X, then someone else is" mentality that is so paranoid and mistrusting, yet it came from a place of wounding and desperation to be seen, heard and loved...so I am not mad at myself...I just want to show myself that I have intrinsic value that is worthy to be seen, heard and loved.....that I don't have to manipulate, protest, worry, people please, check in order to find and keep love...but there is sooo much entrenched patterns...so it goes at a very slow pace. I am glad you are discovering freedom in the moment too..such a great change to focus on the good.❤️❤️ I can relate to the empty feeling of your childhood. I think mine was filled with a lot of fear and powerlessness and then emptiness. I always say hope is powerful and probably something I lack, which contributes to being DA rather than AP. Hold onto the hope Yes, Hope seems to be a major difference from what I see in anxious/avoidant, also. Even coming out of complete emotional neglect growing up, I never gave up hope for closeness to others. Instead I tried to chase it- which is how I got attached to my future husband at age 14. First big mistake. There’s a verse from Proverbs “Hope deferred makes the heart sick.” |
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Post by leavethelighton on Nov 11, 2018 2:33:31 GMT
I can relate to the empty feeling of your childhood. I think mine was filled with a lot of fear and powerlessness and then emptiness. I always say hope is powerful and probably something I lack, which contributes to being DA rather than AP. Hold onto the hope Yes, Hope seems to be a major difference from what I see in anxious/avoidant, also. Even coming out of complete emotional neglect growing up, I never gave up hope for closeness to others. Instead I tried to chase it- which is how I got attached to my future husband at age 14. First big mistake. There’s a verse from Proverbs “Hope deferred makes the heart sick.” Yes, I think I am predominantly AP (for one thing I always click on those boards first and it is my most historical emotional nature even though I also relate to DA in some relationships and some features of FA) and it is very hard to kill the hope in an AP. I think that's one of those things that's both a blessing and a curse. It can carry you far in life or through the turbulence when it can become a positive ambition, and it can also hold you back when you should let go. I have to literally force myself through sheer will and vast amounts of time to give up hope sometimes, and I'm not sure I ever really accomplish that in some cases. I think it must be a common AP thing to learn the hard way in life that it isn't necessarily a failure or betrayal to give up hope. PS. This is Compassionateavoid-- I changed something in my profile and I guess it changed my username here. My new username is pretty ironic in the context of this particular post. LOL |
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 11, 2018 9:11:40 GMT
Yes, Hope seems to be a major difference from what I see in anxious/avoidant, also. Even coming out of complete emotional neglect growing up, I never gave up hope for closeness to others. Instead I tried to chase it- which is how I got attached to my future husband at age 14. First big mistake. There’s a verse from Proverbs “Hope deferred makes the heart sick.” Yes, I think I am predominantly AP (for one thing I always click on those boards first and it is my most historical emotional nature even though I also relate to DA in some relationships and some features of FA) and it is very hard to kill the hope in an AP. I think that's one of those things that's both a blessing and a curse. It can carry you far in life or through the turbulence when it can become a positive ambition, and it can also hold you back when you should let go. I have to literally force myself through sheer will and vast amounts of time to give up hope sometimes, and I'm not sure I ever really accomplish that in some cases. I think it must be a common AP thing to learn the hard way in life that it isn't necessarily a failure or betrayal to give up hope. PS. This is Compassionateavoid-- I changed something in my profile and I guess it changed my username here. My new username is pretty ironic in the context of this particular post. LOL Hope is a blessing and a curse- I couldn’t agree more. Hanging on too long is a defining AP characteristic and I think about this tonight as my DA ex pulled away this past week and a half and I have no idea why he went cold. I just know it’s par for the course. |
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Post by Rookie on Nov 11, 2018 10:15:56 GMT
I think AP's (or at least me) are acutely aware of this. He/she doesn't respect me anymore = I'm worthless=I start losing respect for me. It IS a trap. i think it's helpful also to point out that a pattern of protest behavior by an AP results in a loss of respect by a DA. A DA, male or female, will feel repelled by someone they do not respect as being strong and stable. this is a consistent theme with every DA i know on and off these boards. act out with drama and protest behavior and we lose respect for you. hate it, but it's real. that's why this is just such a toxic and negative dynamic, and DA leave because it doesn't work. that's what we do. we leave. AP cling. the Trap. it's a Trap. and both partners dislike it intensely. |
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 11, 2018 11:34:06 GMT
I think AP's (or at least me) are acutely aware of this. He/she doesn't respect me anymore = I'm worthless=I start losing respect for me. It IS a trap. i think it's helpful also to point out that a pattern of protest behavior by an AP results in a loss of respect by a DA. A DA, male or female, will feel repelled by someone they do not respect as being strong and stable. this is a consistent theme with every DA i know on and off these boards. act out with drama and protest behavior and we lose respect for you. hate it, but it's real. that's why this is just such a toxic and negative dynamic, and DA leave because it doesn't work. that's what we do. we leave. AP cling. the Trap. it's a Trap. and both partners dislike it intensely. I think it is hope mixed with fear....rather than straight hope. Honestly, I don't think I have ever experienced hope on it's own....and as such,I am not sure calling it "hope" is correct...but I am at a loss for another word. I am feeling it right now....it is more of a compulsive inability to let someone go because there is a "hope" that things will change...but there is also a fear that things won't....it honestly is a horrible bind of a feeling at times. All I can think of is it must have been such a confusing and desperate set of feelings to experience as a young child....repeatedly.....enough to form a compulsive and automatic response to others who in some way mirror that lack/possibility. I give my little girl such credit for not giving up on inconsistent parents..but man...it does make it extremely challenging to make more adult like decisions on the viability of a partner or a relationship to meet my needs. The "Prince Charming" "happily ever after" stories must have been written by an AP. I still have those moments where B seems all prince and I missed out...I know it is not true...but when I am sitting with that feeling...it feels incredibly real and I feel like I would do anything to get that prince back. It does pass...but it is still difficult to see an actual, flawed human instead of the potential I place on him. I know I do no one a favor with this perspective...but it s like waking from a dream that a majority of who I am does not want to wake from.....so there is a lot of resistance to changing the prince perspective. It would be endearing if it wasn't so very distorted from the truth and not helpful at all to my friendship with B. It means I want to cheer him on and I see such goodness in him...that makes him feel not seen and probably feels "icky" to him rather then something positive. Sigh. Lots of work still to do. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Nov 12, 2018 0:46:36 GMT
I think AP's (or at least me) are acutely aware of this. He/she doesn't respect me anymore = I'm worthless=I start losing respect for me. It IS a trap. I think it is hope mixed with fear....rather than straight hope. Honestly, I don't think I have ever experienced hope on it's own....and as such,I am not sure calling it "hope" is correct...but I am at a loss for another word. I am feeling it right now....it is more of a compulsive inability to let someone go because there is a "hope" that things will change...but there is also a fear that things won't....it honestly is a horrible bind of a feeling at times. All I can think of is it must have been such a confusing and desperate set of feelings to experience as a young child....repeatedly.....enough to form a compulsive and automatic response to others who in some way mirror that lack/possibility. I give my little girl such credit for not giving up on inconsistent parents..but man...it does make it extremely challenging to make more adult like decisions on the viability of a partner or a relationship to meet my needs. The "Prince Charming" "happily ever after" stories must have been written by an AP. I still have those moments where B seems all prince and I missed out...I know it is not true...but when I am sitting with that feeling...it feels incredibly real and I feel like I would do anything to get that prince back. It does pass...but it is still difficult to see an actual, flawed human instead of the potential I place on him. I know I do no one a favor with this perspective...but it s like waking from a dream that a majority of who I am does not want to wake from.....so there is a lot of resistance to changing the prince perspective. It would be endearing if it wasn't so very distorted from the truth and not helpful at all to my friendship with B. It means I want to cheer him on and I see such goodness in him...that makes him feel not seen and probably feels "icky" to him rather then something positive. Sigh. Lots of work still to do.
I think you're right that it's more like hope mixed with fear.  Or hope that is very difficult to actually believe will actually happen even though one still holds onto the hope, if that makes sense... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 2:03:18 GMT
also- speaking of a growth mindset- i posses that also and grew exponentially in my recent relationship with a fellow dismissive. he did too. we talk about that still.
but it would have been an absoltuefreakinnightmare for an anxious person, lol.
our needs were pretty much compatible until i got secure enough to move on to a more consistent and reciprocal relationship.
there's no way i could have gone from unaware to secure with an AP dynamic involved. I say that with 100% confidence, it's just my experience but the Trap would not have yielded growth at all for me personally, it would have kept me stuck.
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Post by blueunif on Nov 12, 2018 22:54:54 GMT
So not sure if I should've started a new thread but here goes... As some of you may / not know, my DA is still deactivated. On a knife edge at the moment where our 20 year marriage could be at the start of its end. I'm trying so hard to not tamper / deactivate my DA further (eggshells!) but I'm hurting like hell. And the question remains about how, when, if to reach out. So hard to know what is real - is he really trying to finish it (but breadcrumbing!)? And how could I ever know this....what is real and what is my AP interpretation of events!? man, i'm sorry to read this, maybe you could start a new thread so we understand a little better what's going on and your thought processes around it, so we know how best to support you? 🌸 Thanks juniper, I've got a couple of other short posts that say where I'm at but haven't had time to lay everything out in detail, and besides it just keeps teetering like a see-saw. I've read lots of your posts and find them extremely helpful - thank you for being here!! Today I'm more self-focused (ie less anxious) so I've got some work to do before I get locked in the anxiety prison again. |
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thank you 🌸 I feel the same- no expectations when I’m with S and live in the feel good moment. It’s a great way to squish expectations and possible upset and anxiety regarding the expectations. No plans. Just enjoy each other. Let it BE. This all went against my natural grain to plan, overanalyze and speculate...behaviors that were probably all induced by anxiety. When I let go and enjoy the moment, it feels SO liberating. It feels the opposite of anxiety. It feels light and easy. Freedom. No chains. I never had that growing up, I wasn’t even liberated as a child. No fun or laughter. No care free moments. Ever. As far back as I can remember I was an extremely anxious, withdrawn and fearful child- completely without emotion or expression. Deadpan. 
Or hope that is very difficult to actually believe will actually happen even though one still holds onto the hope, if that makes sense...