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Post by leavethelighton on Oct 26, 2018 5:21:21 GMT
I've got to figure out a better path to better physical intimacy. I fantasize a lot about non-partners and have a hard time getting into actually wanting physical intimacy with my actual partner (of about 15 years). Some of the issues: - Whenever I think about or try to engage in physical intimacy, I end up engaging in various distancing behaviors (ex. criticism, focusing on their turn offs, picking fights, thinking about the negative, etc.) which gets in the way.
- I'd like a more physically intimate relationship in theory, but I'm not sure how to want it in reality when it seems so much more fulfilling and less complicated to escape into some fantasy by myself instead. I engage in fantasies about real or imaginary people who look pretty much the opposite of my partner which reinforces the problem. I recognize intellectually that my issues would probably NOT be solved by being with a different partner though. I think I probably have unrealistic desires or just don't understand sexual desire outside of fantasy-based desire or some similar complexity. I'm also realize that even if my partner looked like my fantasy person looks some other psychological barrier would probably arise.
- Our ability to communicate/talk about intimacy is very lacking. I guess we're both afraid of rejection or hurting/getting hurt by the conversation.
- Having kids (years ago) has also kind of wrecked whatever sex-drive I had before kids (other than engaging in fantasy).
It's like we're stuck in some sort of holding pattern that we don't know how to get out of. What should I do? I mean how do you cultivate desire when your psyche is just throwing up barriers left and right? I don't really want to fake it, or divorce, and polyamory sounds too complicated and time-consuming. I want to figure out how to actually desire physical intimacy with the person I married and then make it happen. |
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Post by goldilocks on Oct 26, 2018 6:36:59 GMT
It's great that you have the insight to see this is an issue and to work on it within the relationship. Many married couples go through this especially with kids. While I think the first two issues are an interaction between attachment style and a long relationship, the latter two sound like normal marital rut issues. What is very common is for people to lose desire for their spouse after years of marriage or aafter childbirth changes your bodies and lives. I like these podcasts about love and sexuality and there is a lot of information about cultivating desire in a long relationship: www.michaelaboehm.com/listen/ |
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Post by goldilocks on Oct 26, 2018 7:12:48 GMT
The first issue starts with the thought. Thoughts are like clouds, yet the darker clouds attract you perhaps irresistably.
What must you do to be able to let the dark clouds pass through the sky?
Everyone has turn offs, a partner may have bad breath, sweaty feet, hair loss, excess weight or premature wrinkles. If something can easily be adressed in a positive way, by reinforcing any inkling of positive behaviour, do so. (Mmm, I love your new cologne/haircut/shirt!) But do so knowing that there will always be turn offs and that it remains your job to not let them rob you of your desire.
What skills have you developed around attention? Do you meditate?
If you know how to take your attention away from the turn offs, is there anything that keeps you from softening your attention?
Are you tired? Do you lack time alone? Are you eating nourishing foods? Do you regularly go into nature? Do you have time with your friends and date nights?
All these things require planning when you have kids...
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Post by leavethelighton on Oct 27, 2018 1:56:20 GMT
I'm kind of anti-meditation, mindfulness, etc. but I realize that may be a "thou doth protest too much" sort of situation (like I dismiss the idea because it would probably be good for me).
What does "softening your attention" mean?
On the other hand, I've read that when one is in a dismissive mode, it can help with relaxation and staying present to actually have a distractor (like music or a light scheme) during physical intimacy. Unfortunately the last time I deliberately tried this, it made my spouse angry. I guess she could tell I was trying to create a distractor. But to me it just looked like an avenue into something that otherwise seemed too overwhelming or impossible.
I'm doing a lot better lately with sleep, alone time, friends, etc. I should take more walks in nature. Date nights don't happen though because we have no family around and don't want to find or pay for babysitters.
I'm not really into podcasts, but I'll try to get myself to listen to those.
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Post by leavethelighton on Oct 27, 2018 1:57:42 GMT
Also, thanks, you wrote some useful stuff above.
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Post by epicgum on Oct 27, 2018 2:02:24 GMT
Could you get your partner to enjoy your fantasies with you? Open up about them, watch porn together, be more playful, toys etc? Communicate your desires? As a last ditch, you could try using drugs (molly) as that can turn up your arousal and lower your defenses, but i dont have any direct experience with that other than weed/alcohol. Probably not a good habit to get into but possibly once as a new experience to get the ball rolling. Just random ideas.
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Post by leavethelighton on Oct 27, 2018 2:20:24 GMT
I have no interest in using any drugs, but I could see alcohol might be a very temporary useful thing. I did read a book that says if people are trying to re-initiate things after a long break, they should break out the wine for the first time, to get past the initial barrier.
For the most part I've rarely consciously/purposely used alcohol for intimate situations, on some sort of principle of keeping things real and genuine or something. But I could see how it could get people out of a rut to use it a few times if they aren't going to make it some sort of permanent necessity for intimacy.
On your other advice, it's hard to jump into fantasies when you're back back back at the "I feel weird holding hands" stage. I feel like we should start over, but that's weird after 15 years.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 27, 2018 2:42:54 GMT
Could you get your partner to enjoy your fantasies with you? Open up about them, watch porn together, be more playful, toys etc? Communicate your desires? As a last ditch, you could try using drugs (molly) as that can turn up your arousal and lower your defenses, but i dont have any direct experience with that other than weed/alcohol. Probably not a good habit to get into but possibly once as a new experience to get the ball rolling. Just random ideas. I like the toy idea...better yet, toy shop together! |
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Post by epicgum on Oct 27, 2018 4:20:27 GMT
I have no interest in using any drugs, but I could see alcohol might be a very temporary useful thing. I did read a book that says if people are trying to re-initiate things after a long break, they should break out the wine for the first time, to get past the initial barrier. For the most part I've rarely consciously/purposely used alcohol for intimate situations, on some sort of principle of keeping things real and genuine or something. But I could see how it could get people out of a rut to use it a few times if they aren't going to make it some sort of permanent necessity for intimacy. On your other advice, it's hard to jump into fantasies when you're back back back at the "I feel weird holding hands" stage. I feel like we should start over, but that's weird after 15 years. If you are back to not holding hands and you want to get sexy, I think the first thing is to acknowledge that this is gonna take some courage and theres nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with a glass of wine or two to loosen you up for it. Also....how about giving each other massages? Gets you touching each other and feeling good. Mmmm, I love massages, so intimate. |
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Post by epicgum on Oct 27, 2018 4:20:45 GMT
Could you get your partner to enjoy your fantasies with you? Open up about them, watch porn together, be more playful, toys etc? Communicate your desires? As a last ditch, you could try using drugs (molly) as that can turn up your arousal and lower your defenses, but i dont have any direct experience with that other than weed/alcohol. Probably not a good habit to get into but possibly once as a new experience to get the ball rolling. Just random ideas. I like the toy idea...better yet, toy shop together!  |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 27, 2018 4:23:04 GMT
I have no interest in using any drugs, but I could see alcohol might be a very temporary useful thing. I did read a book that says if people are trying to re-initiate things after a long break, they should break out the wine for the first time, to get past the initial barrier. For the most part I've rarely consciously/purposely used alcohol for intimate situations, on some sort of principle of keeping things real and genuine or something. But I could see how it could get people out of a rut to use it a few times if they aren't going to make it some sort of permanent necessity for intimacy. On your other advice, it's hard to jump into fantasies when you're back back back at the "I feel weird holding hands" stage. I feel like we should start over, but that's weird after 15 years. If you are back to not holding hands and you want to get sexy, I think the first thing is to acknowledge that this is gonna take some courage and theres nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with a glass of wine or two to loosen you up for it. Also....how about giving each other massages? Gets you touching each other and feeling good. Mmmm, I love massages, so intimate. Yes, even my DA can’t resist a massage!! 😉 |
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Post by blueunif on Oct 27, 2018 8:07:10 GMT
I'm very similar, 15+ years marriage, held in a pattern but now it's soured & we have to take a break altogether. From my search for similar answers, it seems nothing much can happen if the emotional connection isn't there - something that we both wrecked being in our DA-AP cycle. Staggering to recover something back now, i hope you find your way soon too. P.s. i think the fantasising can get addictive, can you try giving it up - leave the lights on? I've got to figure out a better path to better physical intimacy. I fantasize a lot about non-partners and have a hard time getting into actually wanting physical intimacy with my actual partner (of about 15 years). Some of the issues: - Whenever I think about or try to engage in physical intimacy, I end up engaging in various distancing behaviors (ex. criticism, focusing on their turn offs, picking fights, thinking about the negative, etc.) which gets in the way.
- I'd like a more physically intimate relationship in theory, but I'm not sure how to want it in reality when it seems so much more fulfilling and less complicated to escape into some fantasy by myself instead. I engage in fantasies about real or imaginary people who look pretty much the opposite of my partner which reinforces the problem. I recognize intellectually that my issues would probably NOT be solved by being with a different partner though. I think I probably have unrealistic desires or just don't understand sexual desire outside of fantasy-based desire or some similar complexity. I'm also realize that even if my partner looked like my fantasy person looks some other psychological barrier would probably arise.
- Our ability to communicate/talk about intimacy is very lacking. I guess we're both afraid of rejection or hurting/getting hurt by the conversation.
- Having kids (years ago) has also kind of wrecked whatever sex-drive I had before kids (other than engaging in fantasy).
It's like we're stuck in some sort of holding pattern that we don't know how to get out of. What should I do? I mean how do you cultivate desire when your psyche is just throwing up barriers left and right? I don't really want to fake it, or divorce, and polyamory sounds too complicated and time-consuming. I want to figure out how to actually desire physical intimacy with the person I married and then make it happen. |
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andy
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Post by andy on Oct 27, 2018 18:33:46 GMT
Hey leavethelighton - I'm wondering whether you get into physical intimacy with your partner once you overcome the initial barriers, or whether you're finding that it just doesn't do anything for you even if you can get past the blockages? To me, those seem like two very different situations. I can relate to this to some extent. I often feel disinclined to have sex with my partner, feel awkward kissing, etc. but fairly consistently get into it if I just tell myself "I'm going to do this because experience tells me I'm going to enjoy it in the end" and go for it against the grain of my instinct. You posted earlier about research on responsive vs spontaneous desire and how society expects desire to be spontaneous, and I think it's been helpful for me to be critical of those messages we all get about what sex is supposed to look and feel like. I suspect I don't experience the barriers as intensely as you do, though, from what you've described. (I know I'm posting in DA Support here and elsewhere have mainly identified myself as AP, but I do have an avoidant dynamic similar to what CA describes in relation to my current partner. Recent victory: I invited him to come on a Christmas trip Mexico with me and my family and actually feel excited about it. After mentioning on the boards that I've never invited him on even a small family trip... now this much bigger one. Anyway sorry to distract from your post with that little update, CA, but I just wanted people to understand why I'm here.) |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 19:33:30 GMT
leavethelighton - have you ever heard of the book 'The Truth' by Neil Strauss? I just finished reading it - it's about his journey from avoidant to secure, and he explores all his thoughts around sex and his deactivating behaviours and it just sounds almost exactly like your own. It might be really insightful for you to read it too 
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Post by epicgum on Oct 30, 2018 20:45:08 GMT
leavethelighton - have you ever heard of the book 'The Truth' by Neil Strauss? I just finished reading it - it's about his journey from avoidant to secure, and he explores all his thoughts around sex and his deactivating behaviours and it just sounds almost exactly like your own. It might be really insightful for you to read it too I also read "the truth" and I LOVED it. Really easy and fun read. |
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