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Post by tnr9 on Oct 30, 2018 16:44:43 GMT
So I have been thinking about this as someone who is a high AP....and what is at the root I think is that he is activated and is looking for reassurance from her...when in activation mode...it is very difficult to think logically or even to "think" other then the trying to find ways to reduce what feels excruciating in the moment. The ability to see from another person's perspective and respect boundaries becomes closed off....no different from a child who is activated and hoping that his parent will respond positively but also aware and dreading being rejected. In this case...he reached out...her response was understandable, kind but neutral...it likely did nothing to reduce his activation, thus the reaching out again...hoping for a different reaction. I have done this so many times and am intimately aware of how ineffective it is...but it is still a tool I gravitate towards when activated.?.so reading this is a good reminder that it does not work.
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 30, 2018 16:50:09 GMT
This is also a very good point. When my FA ex dumped me the first time, he did this weird thing where he both DA deactivated but at the same time went full on AP (about us being friends) even though I told him I was devastated and needed space. He didn't respect it at all for a few months and I ended up blocking him for almost a year as a result. I am low avoidance and loved him, but couldn't deal with him putting his need to not feel abandoned by me (even though he was dumping me) over my need to sort myself out. I think part of the AP/DA dance is that APs are good at seeing their own needs but not the needs of others and the vice versa for the DA. When the DA says "I can't give you what you need", that's real. What we don't see is that the AP can't give the DA what they need either. I think this also speaks to the result of the child/parent interactions...if I am not mistaken...the DA realizes the parent is not capable or won't give him/her what is needed and thus "gives up", becomes independent...whereas the AP remains "hopeful" and thus is constantly in relationship pursuit mode...I believe I have over simplified it....but it does make sense then that neither can give the other what is needed. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 17:15:02 GMT
So I have been thinking about this as someone who is a high AP....and what is at the root I think is that he is activated and is looking for reassurance from her...when in activation mode...it is very difficult to think logically or even to "think" other then the trying to find ways to reduce what feels excruciating in the moment. The ability to see from another person's perspective and respect boundaries becomes closed off....no different from a child who is activated and hoping that his parent will respond positively but also aware and dreading being rejected. In this case...he reached out...her response was understandable, kind but neutral...it likely did nothing to reduce his activation, thus the reaching out again...hoping for a different reaction. I have done this so many times and am intimately aware of how ineffective it is...but it is still a tool I gravitate towards when activated.?.so reading this is a good reminder that it does not work. I also have fallen into this pattern, many, many, many times and you describe it so well. In fact, I did exactly this to the last person I was dating because it's almost like you can't even see it when you're in it and it can even feel like the most authentic expression of your needs. But communicating that can be at the expense of the others' and that then becomes something we are almost taking from them without their consent, isn't it? It's so helpful to see how the DAs on the forum see this behaviour - I really had no awareness of how invasive that must feel from the other person's side when you feel like you're just "speaking your truth" |
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liz
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Post by liz on Oct 30, 2018 17:24:51 GMT
I find it interesting that for me, it would be a very subjective experience to receive these texts from OP. If I like someone, such vulnerable and heart on the sleeves expressions of loving intent would be like music to my ears and I would reciprocate right back. However, if I do not have the same type of feelings, then I would feel troubled by these texts as I would wish that OP hadn't fallen for me, putting me in a difficult position of replying and the unwanted conundrum of possibly hurting him.
She has expressed attraction for him back in the past and she has been crying on his shoulder, so I'd cut OP some slack because these actions did convey some emotional ambiguity. Now that she has made it quite clear that she doesn't want the encroachment of his desires, OP should perhaps consider delivering on his promise to pull away to offer both the space to heal.
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 30, 2018 17:26:27 GMT
So I have been thinking about this as someone who is a high AP....and what is at the root I think is that he is activated and is looking for reassurance from her...when in activation mode...it is very difficult to think logically or even to "think" other then the trying to find ways to reduce what feels excruciating in the moment. The ability to see from another person's perspective and respect boundaries becomes closed off....no different from a child who is activated and hoping that his parent will respond positively but also aware and dreading being rejected. In this case...he reached out...her response was understandable, kind but neutral...it likely did nothing to reduce his activation, thus the reaching out again...hoping for a different reaction. I have done this so many times and am intimately aware of how ineffective it is...but it is still a tool I gravitate towards when activated.?.so reading this is a good reminder that it does not work. I also have fallen into this pattern, many, many, many times and you describe it so well. In fact, I did exactly this to the last person I was dating because it's almost like you can't even see it when you're in it and it can even feel like the most authentic expression of your needs. But communicating that can be at the expense of the others' and that then becomes something we are almost taking from them without their consent, isn't it? It's so helpful to see how the DAs on the forum see this behaviour - I really had no awareness of how invasive that must feel from the other person's side when you feel like you're just "speaking your truth" Right...we talk a good line about giving the other person "freedom to choose" but the wording and motive are so counter to that and the other person feels that underlying desperation as pressure/suffocation and pushing against it in order to regain autonomy...which we interpret as rejection....and the dance goes on. Last week I was in this space...desperate...needy...oversharing.....yesterday....I was not...not outwardly...and the interaction was a stark contrast..it was open without being overbearing...it was jokey without feeling personal...and today that space has continued...which is so welcome. |
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Post by lilyg on Oct 30, 2018 17:27:55 GMT
OP, don't beat yourself up. Let it rest for now.
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Post by standintheheart on Nov 1, 2018 7:14:30 GMT
Thanks, lilyg. I don't intend to beat myself up. But damn, I feel the need to defend myself here.
Ok, so thanks all firstly for the perspective that my words came across as needy. But they also were honest. And I truly fail to see them as manipulative. I see them as removing myself from the impulse to manipulate. To continue a casual friendship would be manipulative. This is not as clear and simple to me as pursuing someone who's not interested. She left me feeling incredibly confused, and my best defense was sharing how I feel and giving distance. We confessed attraction months ago. She expressed a want to be around me, be near me. But at the same time, because of I believe her being DA and having a boyfriend, was very reserved. To a point where it was hard for me to read her, and I ended up confused/hurt/feeling stupid. She reaches out to me via text after we've moved back to our respective cities, I get the notion that she desires closeness with me. THEN confesses that she broke up with her boyfriend, partially because of what she felt for me over the summer.
So, I'm feeling berated by people on here who remind me that she's grieving and how DARE I want to be with her despite that. I have enormous compassion for her and enjoy counseling her. Because yay, feelings and closeness. But it's not fair to be both the counselor and the desirer... it leaves me feeling hurt and anxious, and it's like lying to her. As much as I'd love to just be a pure friend who can help her and then go on my merry way. But that ain't true to how it feels. I also want to be with her. Pretending that's not there would be... manipulative.
And yes, no shit there would probably be a perpetual dance between us of not understanding one another, even if we did start a relationship. That doesn't change my want to TRY anyway, if given the opportunity. That's just how it goes sometimes when you're drawn to someone. It's human. Please don't pretend like y'all are above that.
Of COURSE there is longing and desperation in my texts. But I believe there to also be clarity and truth. And kindness, for deciding to remove myself. That shit's not easy. I'm doing my best. Trying to do the right thing. Y'all have your perspectives, which is what I asked for, but god damn does it feel like a lot of people up on some high horses berating me for criminal behavior.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 13:11:49 GMT
there're different perspectives, sure.
we won't agree.
your approach feels a certain way to me.
and it's icky.
my approach feels a certain way to you, and it's icky.
it's ok to disagree and just do what you think is best, no backtracking necessary on either side.
it's just input, you don't have to take it deeper than you want to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 13:58:20 GMT
Thanks, lilyg. I don't intend to beat myself up. But damn, I feel the need to defend myself here. Ok, so thanks all firstly for the perspective that my words came across as needy. But they also were honest. And I truly fail to see them as manipulative. I see them as removing myself from the impulse to manipulate. To continue a casual friendship would be manipulative. This is not as clear and simple to me as pursuing someone who's not interested. She left me feeling incredibly confused, and my best defense was sharing how I feel and giving distance. We confessed attraction months ago. She expressed a want to be around me, be near me. But at the same time, because of I believe her being DA and having a boyfriend, was very reserved. To a point where it was hard for me to read her, and I ended up confused/hurt/feeling stupid. She reaches out to me via text after we've moved back to our respective cities, I get the notion that she desires closeness with me. THEN confesses that she broke up with her boyfriend, partially because of what she felt for me over the summer. So, I'm feeling berated by people on here who remind me that she's grieving and how DARE I want to be with her despite that. I have enormous compassion for her and enjoy counseling her. Because yay, feelings and closeness. But it's not fair to be both the counselor and the desirer... it leaves me feeling hurt and anxious, and it's like lying to her. As much as I'd love to just be a pure friend who can help her and then go on my merry way. But that ain't true to how it feels. I also want to be with her. Pretending that's not there would be... manipulative. And yes, no shit there would probably be a perpetual dance between us of not understanding one another, even if we did start a relationship. That doesn't change my want to TRY anyway, if given the opportunity. That's just how it goes sometimes when you're drawn to someone. It's human. Please don't pretend like y'all are above that. Of COURSE there is longing and desperation in my texts. But I believe there to also be clarity and truth. And kindness, for deciding to remove myself. That shit's not easy. I'm doing my best. Trying to do the right thing. Y'all have your perspectives, which is what I asked for, but god damn does it feel like a lot of people up on some high horses berating me for criminal behavior. Welcome to the AP/DA dance. It occurs on this forum too, because the perspectives are so different. I don't see any berating here. You asked for opinions and we gave it. No one knows your particular situation and everything that has happened. It's impossible for us to know. We only can go by what's in your post. If you are completely fine with your perspective and what you did, then you don't need anyone else's opinion. If you are just looking for reassurance that you did the right thing, asking for other's opinions is not going to get you that. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 14:16:06 GMT
Thanks, lilyg. I don't intend to beat myself up. But damn, I feel the need to defend myself here. Ok, so thanks all firstly for the perspective that my words came across as needy. But they also were honest. And I truly fail to see them as manipulative. I see them as removing myself from the impulse to manipulate. To continue a casual friendship would be manipulative. This is not as clear and simple to me as pursuing someone who's not interested. She left me feeling incredibly confused, and my best defense was sharing how I feel and giving distance. We confessed attraction months ago. She expressed a want to be around me, be near me. But at the same time, because of I believe her being DA and having a boyfriend, was very reserved. To a point where it was hard for me to read her, and I ended up confused/hurt/feeling stupid. She reaches out to me via text after we've moved back to our respective cities, I get the notion that she desires closeness with me. THEN confesses that she broke up with her boyfriend, partially because of what she felt for me over the summer. So, I'm feeling berated by people on here who remind me that she's grieving and how DARE I want to be with her despite that. I have enormous compassion for her and enjoy counseling her. Because yay, feelings and closeness. But it's not fair to be both the counselor and the desirer... it leaves me feeling hurt and anxious, and it's like lying to her. As much as I'd love to just be a pure friend who can help her and then go on my merry way. But that ain't true to how it feels. I also want to be with her. Pretending that's not there would be... manipulative. And yes, no shit there would probably be a perpetual dance between us of not understanding one another, even if we did start a relationship. That doesn't change my want to TRY anyway, if given the opportunity. That's just how it goes sometimes when you're drawn to someone. It's human. Please don't pretend like y'all are above that. Of COURSE there is longing and desperation in my texts. But I believe there to also be clarity and truth. And kindness, for deciding to remove myself. That shit's not easy. I'm doing my best. Trying to do the right thing. Y'all have your perspectives, which is what I asked for, but god damn does it feel like a lot of people up on some high horses berating me for criminal behavior. Welcome to the AP/DA dance. It occurs on this forum too, because the perspectives are so different. I don't see any berating here. You asked for opinions and we gave it. No one knows your particular situation and everything that has happened. It's impossible for us to know. We only can go by what's in your post. If you are completely fine with your perspective and what you did, then you don't need anyone else's opinion. If you are just looking for reassurance that you did the right thing, asking for other's opinions is not going to get you that. well said! |
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