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Post by faithopelove on Nov 14, 2018 3:03:35 GMT
Anyone else have a hard time finding a voice and expressing boundaries?
As an AP, I find it incredibly difficult to express my own needs- it evokes anxiety just asking a partner to do something for me, and I won’t ask anyone who’s not a partner. With a partner I eventually activate by perceived or real rejection, usually with protesting texts, with my ex DA it was always with texts.
In reflection, even in my early childhood, back to 4-5 years old, I never would’ve communicated my needs to either parent. I’d sleep on the floor near their room if I had a nightmare, for example, but wouldn’t have dared to wake them for comfort or just to slip in their bed. I wouldn’t have said if I felt sick or had any problem. I was self-reliant but yearned for closeness.
I’m thinking about this a lot this week bc I went out on a first date Fri night with a guy I had only talked to face to face on one other occasion for a few minutes. He trespassed so many of my physical boundaries- he actually repulsed me but instead of expressing myself, I pulled away or put my pocketbook between us as a barrier. This clueless guy seemed totally unaware of how inappropriate he was- hand holding within minutes of seeing me, rubbing my arm, shoulder, stroking my hair, even resting his hand between my thighs and touching my waist. I HATED it, but said nothing.
In hindsight this bothers me so much that I didn’t assert myself. Even at the end of the travesty, he tried to kissed me and I turned my head away...and he said I guess I’m too affectionate for you? I still couldn’t find my voice- I just said, oh, no and jumped into my car. I knew I’d never hear from him again bc he didn’t get what he wanted...and I certainly don’t want to ever hear from him again. In the moment of wanting nothing to do with this guy on me, I became paralyzed. Would anyone else have this issue? He disgusted me with his touch...
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 14, 2018 3:31:52 GMT
Anyone else have a hard time finding a voice and expressing boundaries? As an AP, I find it incredibly difficult to express my own needs- it evokes anxiety just asking a partner to do something for me, and I won’t ask anyone who’s not a partner. With a partner I eventually activate by perceived or real rejection, usually with protesting texts, with my ex DA it was always with texts. In reflection, even in my early childhood, back to 4-5 years old, I never would’ve communicated my needs to either parent. I’d sleep on the floor near their room if I had a nightmare, for example, but wouldn’t have dared to wake them for comfort or just to slip in their bed. I wouldn’t have said if I felt sick or had any problem. I was self-reliant but yearned for closeness. I’m thinking about this a lot this week bc I went out on a first date Fri night with a guy I had only talked to face to face on one other occasion for a few minutes. He trespassed so many of my physical boundaries- he actually repulsed me but instead of expressing myself, I pulled away or put my pocketbook between us as a barrier. This clueless guy seemed totally unaware of how inappropriate he was- hand holding within minutes of seeing me, rubbing my arm, shoulder, stroking my hair, even resting his hand between my thighs and touching my waist. I HATED it, but said nothing. In hindsight this bothers me so much that I didn’t assert myself. Even at the end of the travesty, he tried to kissed me and I turned my head away...and he said I guess I’m too affectionate for you? I still couldn’t find my voice- I just said, oh, no and jumped into my car. I knew I’d never hear from him again bc he didn’t get what he wanted...and I certainly don’t want to ever hear from him again. In the moment of wanting nothing to do with this guy on me, I became paralyzed. Would anyone else have this issue? He disgusted me with his touch... I have this issue as well. I remember going out on a first (and only) date with a guy and he ordered 1 meal for us to "share" and I thought...this is ridiculous....but I did not say anything...just sat there fuming internally. I have a friend who is very outspoken with her boundaries and will tell a guy when she doesn't like something....and guys are attracted to her confidence and boldness. |
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lilos
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Post by lilos on Nov 14, 2018 3:33:38 GMT
It’s strange to me that I have been all of those things you talk about in your post. All of them. I used to sleep outside my parents door too. And I have absolutely been unable to find my voice in similar situations that has often lead to me to ask myself why I have such little respect for myself that I wouldn’t stand up in those situations? I internalized the hell out of them. I hope you don’t blame and shame yourself but at the same time I also hope you see that you have and can use your voice when it doesn’t feel right. These are not keep the peace situations. But I know the struggle- I have been there too. I remember my head feeling locked down and being completely unable to find words—— I guess maybe that’s the “freeze” response they speak of.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 3:51:46 GMT
When I was a kid, I was very shy. As I got older and further from my parents, I became an extrovert, however still an avoider. To avoid these situations, I will tell them my boundaries before we meet or when we meet. Such as I don't kiss on the first date, etc. It often becomes a topic of conversation, but I have also been told I am very blunt. Perhaps saying it up front is easier than in the moment?
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 14, 2018 4:16:36 GMT
It’s strange to me that I have been all of those things you talk about in your post. All of them. I used to sleep outside my parents door too. And I have absolutely been unable to find my voice in similar situations that has often lead to me to ask myself why I have such little respect for myself that I wouldn’t stand up in those situations? I internalized the hell out of them. I hope you don’t blame and shame yourself but at the same time I also hope you see that you have and can use your voice when it doesn’t feel right. These are not keep the peace situations. But I know the struggle- I have been there too. I remember my head feeling locked down and being completely unable to find words—— I guess maybe that’s the “freeze” response they speak of. Yes, good point, lilos, it must be the freeze response bc I know if he texted me now I’d be able to find my voice. I hate not being able to do it in the moment though. You slept outside the door too? I wonder if that’s typical of an AP child with emotionally unavailable parents...we want the love, affection and attention but have learned not to ask for it...or expect it. That must be a sad and lonely realization for a very young child to come to...by the age of 4 or even younger for me. |
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 14, 2018 4:23:29 GMT
When I was a kid, I was very shy. As I got older and further from my parents, I became an extrovert, however still an avoider. To avoid these situations, I will tell them my boundaries before we meet or when we meet. Such as I don't kiss on the first date, etc. It often becomes a topic of conversation, but I have also been told I am very blunt. Perhaps saying it up front is easier than in the moment? Oh my goodness, Mary...no, I can’t even imagine saying that at all about kissing or boundaries. Not if the convo is initiated by me, anyway. Upfront would be easier for me than in the moment, def I told another guy ahead of time before we would not be heading back to my place after our dinner on our first date when he asked about the possibility and I said to this guy that I wanted to go out in public when he invited over to his place on our first date...bold of him. Good thing we weren’t at his place...I need to trust and respond to my first instinct more and speak up. I usually give a guy a couple tries to make sure I’m not dismissing him too easily, but my first impression is always confirmed. |
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 14, 2018 4:25:49 GMT
When I was a kid, I was very shy. As I got older and further from my parents, I became an extrovert, however still an avoider. To avoid these situations, I will tell them my boundaries before we meet or when we meet. Such as I don't kiss on the first date, etc. It often becomes a topic of conversation, but I have also been told I am very blunt. Perhaps saying it up front is easier than in the moment? And this guy didn’t get to the kiss bc I turned away...my problem was the hands all over me which presented in the moment. I totally froze. |
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 14, 2018 4:28:04 GMT
Anyone else have a hard time finding a voice and expressing boundaries? As an AP, I find it incredibly difficult to express my own needs- it evokes anxiety just asking a partner to do something for me, and I won’t ask anyone who’s not a partner. With a partner I eventually activate by perceived or real rejection, usually with protesting texts, with my ex DA it was always with texts. In reflection, even in my early childhood, back to 4-5 years old, I never would’ve communicated my needs to either parent. I’d sleep on the floor near their room if I had a nightmare, for example, but wouldn’t have dared to wake them for comfort or just to slip in their bed. I wouldn’t have said if I felt sick or had any problem. I was self-reliant but yearned for closeness. I’m thinking about this a lot this week bc I went out on a first date Fri night with a guy I had only talked to face to face on one other occasion for a few minutes. He trespassed so many of my physical boundaries- he actually repulsed me but instead of expressing myself, I pulled away or put my pocketbook between us as a barrier. This clueless guy seemed totally unaware of how inappropriate he was- hand holding within minutes of seeing me, rubbing my arm, shoulder, stroking my hair, even resting his hand between my thighs and touching my waist. I HATED it, but said nothing. In hindsight this bothers me so much that I didn’t assert myself. Even at the end of the travesty, he tried to kissed me and I turned my head away...and he said I guess I’m too affectionate for you? I still couldn’t find my voice- I just said, oh, no and jumped into my car. I knew I’d never hear from him again bc he didn’t get what he wanted...and I certainly don’t want to ever hear from him again. In the moment of wanting nothing to do with this guy on me, I became paralyzed. Would anyone else have this issue? He disgusted me with his touch... I have this issue as well. I remember going out on a first (and only) date with a guy and he ordered 1 meal for us to "share" and I thought...this is ridiculous....but I did not say anything...just sat there fuming internally. I have a friend who is very outspoken with her boundaries and will tell a guy when she doesn't like something....and guys are attracted to her confidence and boldness. I would’ve done the same-“order whatever you want, I’m not picky” and then probably hated the meal. Common theme I guess I’m not asserting needs or boundaries properly. I need to work on this. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 5:19:30 GMT
When I was a kid, I was very shy. As I got older and further from my parents, I became an extrovert, however still an avoider. To avoid these situations, I will tell them my boundaries before we meet or when we meet. Such as I don't kiss on the first date, etc. It often becomes a topic of conversation, but I have also been told I am very blunt. Perhaps saying it up front is easier than in the moment? And this guy didn’t get to the kiss bc I turned away...my problem was the hands all over me which presented in the moment. I totally froze. No surprise, I'm big on boundaries, lol. I usually tell guys before hand I don't like people touching me that I don't know. The guy you are describing, I probably would've left. Telling them up front has worked for me. Gropey guys are gross. |
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hannah
Junior Member
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Post by hannah on Nov 14, 2018 10:24:04 GMT
I have this issue as well. I remember going out on a first (and only) date with a guy and he ordered 1 meal for us to "share" and I thought...this is ridiculous....but I did not say anything...just sat there fuming internally. I have a friend who is very outspoken with her boundaries and will tell a guy when she doesn't like something....and guys are attracted to her confidence and boldness. I would’ve done the same-“order whatever you want, I’m not picky” and then probably hated the meal. Common theme I guess I’m not asserting needs or boundaries properly. I need to work on this. It makes me think about an AP I dated a few times. When we were out to eat he ordered "same as you, Hannah" and didn't even took a look on the options. It was a big turn off to me. It's only an example of how he couldn't show himself by fear of being rejected and was always acting in order to hide our differences and avoid conflicts. It was nice at the beginning all the "me too!", all the tastes in common, etc but after some time it was too much, I didn't want to go out with my mirror! I'm grateful of this quick relationship, I still feel repulsion but it opened my eyes about my anxious behavior (I'm FA) in a really effective way ! The food stuff is a good metaphor for relationships, I think. With another ex, even when we wanted to order the same thing we sometimes didn't cause there was always others great plates and we found nice to share and to taste different things. We were together almost 10 years and still friends. Food for thought! Hahaha |
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Post by 8675309 on Nov 14, 2018 11:15:16 GMT
I cant help because Im not AP but.... I would of voiced it but I cant believe he just didn't pick up on your body language, body language speaks volumes... I dont even know you and I can see what you would be like with that guy, Id be the same and be in this cringe mode.... or the fact that is WAY to fast for all that touching, total turn off and I would of wanted to run! LOL He certainly has 'issues' if he thinks thats ok to do that fast and missed your language. Red flags galore! LOL At least he showed them quickly so you avoided a not right guy for you. You'll get there on your voice.  |
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hannah
Junior Member
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Post by hannah on Nov 14, 2018 11:20:06 GMT
I cant help because Im not AP but.... I would of voiced it but I cant believe he just didn't pick up on your body language, body language speaks volumes... I dont even know you and I can see what you would be like with that guy, Id be the same and be in this cringe mode.... or the fact that is WAY to fast for all that touching, total turn off and I would of wanted to run! LOL He certainly has 'issues' if he thinks thats ok to do that fast and missed your language. Red flags galore! LOL At least he showed them quickly so you avoided a not right guy for you. You'll get there on your voice. Really good point! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 14:07:02 GMT
I cant help because Im not AP but.... I would of voiced it but I cant believe he just didn't pick up on your body language, body language speaks volumes... I dont even know you and I can see what you would be like with that guy, Id be the same and be in this cringe mode.... or the fact that is WAY to fast for all that touching, total turn off and I would of wanted to run! LOL He certainly has 'issues' if he thinks thats ok to do that fast and missed your language. Red flags galore! LOL At least he showed them quickly so you avoided a not right guy for you. You'll get there on your voice. Oh I believe it. There are all kinds out there. Even with a voice, sometimes they don't get it. I told this guy, I didn't feel that we had any chemistry. He still insisted that we did have chemistry and he wanted to make out. Ewwwww! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 14:45:09 GMT
i think most of my life i didn't really have a voice or boundaries.
i think i was just able to detach internally and so didn't realize how much i was suffering over the encroachment into my body and mind, by people who had no boundaries either.
Over time, with the ability to know how i feel, i found my voice. I still don't get too hurt most of the time, by others, if they are disrespectful, it's not that i don't have feelings but i don't give people a whole lot of power.
My voice is strong now. I once had a first date with a man such as you described. i made the date purely observational. we ate, had conversations, and i didn't say anything about his grotesque encroachment.
Until the end when he asked me for a second date.
Then i calmly let him have it by telling him i have observed , throughout the evening, his disgusting sense of entitlement to my body. i told him that i would never consent to more time with such a disrespectful and insensitive man, and that he should be ashamed of how he has treated a woman today.
then i got out of his car and went home.
he apologized profusely over text and said he would respect my wish that he never contact me again, and that he was in fact ashamed of himself.
i felt great about honoring myself that way, and i didn't mind putting him in his place, either. he needed it.
GROSS
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Post by epicgum on Nov 14, 2018 16:58:20 GMT
I cant help because Im not AP but.... I would of voiced it but I cant believe he just didn't pick up on your body language, body language speaks volumes... I dont even know you and I can see what you would be like with that guy, Id be the same and be in this cringe mode.... or the fact that is WAY to fast for all that touching, total turn off and I would of wanted to run! LOL He certainly has 'issues' if he thinks thats ok to do that fast and missed your language. Red flags galore! LOL At least he showed them quickly so you avoided a not right guy for you. You'll get there on your voice. Eh, one person's "too fast" is another person's "too slow" in many things...contact, sex, moving in together, marriage. None of us would be on this forum if we weren't all on both sides of that, so...judge not lest ye be judged  |
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