mel
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Posts: 17
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Post by mel on Nov 25, 2018 20:53:09 GMT
Hello everyone,
Wondering if other Anxious have become preoccupied with someone at church, or work or school, that you see regularly, who flirts, and seems interested, or emails or texts or calls, BUT never asks you out?
Are we Anxious especially susceptible to such fuzzy situations--pursuit and distance, their anger, then distancing, then niceness, but never even a real relationship?
Is there a way to protect yourself from falling for someone who is just playing for their amusement?
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 26, 2018 0:09:03 GMT
Hello everyone, Wondering if other Anxious have become preoccupied with someone at church, or work or school, that you see regularly, who flirts, and seems interested, or emails or texts or calls, BUT never asks you out? Are we Anxious especially susceptible to such fuzzy situations--pursuit and distance, their anger, then distancing, then niceness, but never even a real relationship? Is there a way to protect yourself from falling for someone who is just playing for their amusement? Raises both hands.....I fell HARD for a guy I met through a church group but never dated (before B)....I think surrounding yourself with friends who are secure and can help to counteract the wishful thinking, fantasy and hope is the best way to protect your heart.
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Post by leavethelighton on Nov 26, 2018 0:21:34 GMT
No, can't relate... But, this post makes me think if you're interested, ask them out! I don't know how old you are so maybe this sounds unlikely if you're in your 20s, but now that I'm almost 40, if I was single and in that situation and wanted more, I'd end the game one way or another, and I'd like to think I'd be brave enough to ask them out. Think about trying it...
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Post by alexandra on Nov 26, 2018 0:34:00 GMT
Hm, usually if someone seems really interested but never asks you out, there's a reason. That reason may be the person is avoidant, and you're already doing the dance. Other reasons I've later learned about that I can think of off the top of my head have ranged from "I actually have a significant other but we're having problems", "too scared of dating someone else in my academic program" (this was true because he resurfaced, too late, so I suspect he probably knew he wasn't a great boyfriend and didn't want to spoil his reputation), and "know I'm on the rebound so timing is bad".
You're better off asking for a straight answer than letting it go on and on. But do consider if the person may show signs of avoidant attachment and try to move on if that's the case and you're not far into your AP healing work.
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mel
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by mel on Nov 26, 2018 0:52:26 GMT
tnr9,
Can I ask, the person you fell for in your church group, how did it end? Did you end it and if so, how did you make the decision? And, did you have to keep seeing him, or did you leave the church just to avoid him?
(I have about decided to leave the church rather than stay in my painful situation with the Avoidant)
Thank you for any thoughts you care to share!
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mel
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by mel on Nov 26, 2018 0:57:56 GMT
Leavethelighton,
Yes, a while ago he emailed "we don't have much contact" and I wrote back "I would love to have more contact, see you more" and he replied: "that will never happen" then he immediately assigned me to one of his committees so we then saw each other a lot more!!!
And so it continued, his hurtful distancing words and actions, and me always going back for the few times he is nice to me...
I am about decided never to quit the church just to get away from him. Thank you for asking and I welcome any thoughts you care to share.
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mel
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by mel on Nov 26, 2018 1:02:03 GMT
Alexandra,
Yes, thank you, I got into thinking I could just fix it somehow and he would then want to be with me.
I think the good reason exists and I have to be at peace with never knowing it and never 'fixing' it....
When you mention AP healing work, is there a book or program you recommend? I have tried to work with a few counselors and even gave them books on attachment but they never understood my anxious preoccupation and weren't helpful.
thank you!
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 26, 2018 3:02:55 GMT
tnr9, Can I ask, the person you fell for in your church group, how did it end? Did you end it and if so, how did you make the decision? And, did you have to keep seeing him, or did you leave the church just to avoid him? (I have about decided to leave the church rather than stay in my painful situation with the Avoidant) Thank you for any thoughts you care to share! So....I did eventually leave...but it was after he dated and then married someone else. It still took a couple of years to let go of him....and I think I only truly let go once I fell for B. I think leaving can be the right thing to do...however....I would highly recommend doing some inner work in this time to see what it was that attracted you to him and kept you invested when he was not. For me...I am not looking to date any time soon...I just have a rather messy history.
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Post by alexandra on Nov 26, 2018 4:09:57 GMT
Alexandra, Yes, thank you, I got into thinking I could just fix it somehow and he would then want to be with me. I think the good reason exists and I have to be at peace with never knowing it and never 'fixing' it.... When you mention AP healing work, is there a book or program you recommend? I have tried to work with a few counselors and even gave them books on attachment but they never understood my anxious preoccupation and weren't helpful. thank you!
If he's avoidant, you can't fix it because the problem isn't you and it's likely not actually about you either. Avoidant nervous systems get hijacked just as AP nervous systems do, in a kind of inverse way (they can shut down instead of get overstimulated, but the source is the same: past experiences with adult caretakers that did not encourage secure attachment... I find it helpful to think of AP/FA/DA as 3 types of defense mechanisms that can very naturally evolve in children in response to a prolonged situation that isn't meeting their primal emotional/survival needs, but as adults they are out of context and more harmful to mature relationships while no longer being necessary for survival). You can only look at why you're willing to stay on the hook in a situation that isn't satisfying. The real, deep, painful reasons, not the superficial ones (he seems great and sometimes he's nice to me would be a superficial-level reason, he makes me chase his conditional love like my parents made me do so it feels familiar might be an example of a deep reason, though I'm not suggesting that specific reason applies to you).
I will tell you that, after several years, I know exactly the reasons my two FA exes actually broke up with me. It does help to know, but it just reinforces that I can't fix them or do anything about it. Neither of those exes are aware of being FA so they could not tell me the reasons they deactivated after being very into me for months. At first, I didn't believe they could be that sad and frustrated and assumed they were trying to placate me by lying about why we broke up. But once I understood more about insecure attachment, I realized, I know their families and histories and backgrounds. I get it, and I know where their problems came from. It's not about me. I still worked hard on my own AP issues over a long period of time anyway and fixed them because I wanted to for my own sake, and to be as good a partner as I could be to whoever. The rest of it was on them to do the same, and they weren't ready to do that. Ultimately, there was nothing I could do besides work on my own side of things, state my needs, say "also you may want to consider looking into something called fearful avoidant insecure attachment" (I only did this with one and it took me almost 3 years of incredible closeness to be comfortable enough to tell him that, not recommended to do with just anyone, and didn't help anything in the short-term), and let them walk away. I don't know the reasons the many, many, many DAs I dated short-term broke things off, but at this point it also doesn't matter. Because the reasons I do know tend to be just as much about them as about me, if not more.
I do think it's very important if you go the therapy route that you find someone who has some specialty in insecure attachment. If you can talk to someone who really understands it, and is familiar with what the healing process looks like so can both respect where you are in it, the speed you're going at, that it's not a linear improvement, and how to speak to the dysfunctional thought patterns in a non-judgemental (ie non-triggering way), I imagine that's really helpful. Attachment theory in general was a really good framework for me to understand everything going on, both within myself and in interaction dynamics with others, even though I think I took a kind of analytical approach to dealing with emotions lol. But that happened to work for me, because it made it possible for me to stop personalizing things and stop letting the dysfunctional emotions overwhelm me.
For later on, when I was incorporating understanding others into it, I found Jayson Gaddis's free stuff online to be helpful (he never outright says it, but I believe he's a fearful avoidant turned earned secure) -- helped me understand how someone's issues with the relationships can truly have zero to do with you and everything to do with them which means it's up to them to put in the work (though it's still up to you to state your needs, believe in yourself, and walk away if the relationship is dysfunctional and not improving through the efforts of both partners). Harville and Helen are also good, and I know he's masquerading as a "get your ex back" guy, but Clay Andrews has some good pointers about how emotional connection works and building it in a healthy way with good communication. When you're midway through the process, learning relationship skills and communication skills seems really helpful, since all the insecure styles struggle with communicating needs.
The other thing that was really helpful to me was thinking about the graph with the 4 style quadrants, and thinking about the anxious axis as, as anxiety increases, sense of self / trust in self / self esteem goes down, and in the avoidant axis, as avoidance increases, trust in others goes down. So the more anxious you are, the more you need to work on truly fundamentally improving your sense of self, trust in yourself, your self esteem and agency in order to create healthier boundaries. You need to stop requiring validation from others and honestly provide it to yourself (some people on this board include it in the process of "re-parenting"). The more avoidant you are, the more you need to work on accepting others and trusting others. As anxiety and avoidance decrease, you move closer to secure!
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mel
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by mel on Nov 26, 2018 4:51:52 GMT
tnr9,
Thank you so much for sharing. He dated and then married someone else? OMG! What a nightmare!!!
That is enough to strengthen my resolve not to ever return...I can't imagine the pain of seeing THAT!!!
Take care, dear, and hugs!!!
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mel
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by mel on Nov 26, 2018 5:03:49 GMT
Alexandra, Thank you so much for your detailed insights and links which I will be reading through in the days ahead. This really is a lifeline you have tossed me!!! Gratitude! "he makes me chase his conditional love like my parents made me do so it feels familiar" yep, this is me. "state your needs, believe in yourself, and walk away if the relationship is dysfunctional" THANK YOU! I am: Trying, learning. Thank you so much for all the wonderful resources!!! Deeply, deeply appreciated as I try to maintain my trust in self.
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Post by alexandra on Nov 26, 2018 9:16:58 GMT
mel, we're all here to learn. I'm happy if some of it helps! Though also keep in mind that processing through your attachment style takes a while, so be patient with yourself too. Lots of, one step forward, half a step back, two steps sideways, another step forward!
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Post by leavethelighton on Nov 28, 2018 0:34:36 GMT
Mel, well based on what you posted above, I take back the "ask him out" part...he sounds too inconsistent (esp. the "That will never happen.")
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Post by leavethelighton on Nov 28, 2018 0:37:32 GMT
Hm, usually if someone seems really interested but never asks you out, there's a reason. That reason may be the person is avoidant, and you're already doing the dance. Other reasons I've later learned about that I can think of off the top of my head have ranged from "I actually have a significant other but we're having problems", "too scared of dating someone else in my academic program" (this was true because he resurfaced, too late, so I suspect he probably knew he wasn't a great boyfriend and didn't want to spoil his reputation), and "know I'm on the rebound so timing is bad". You're better off asking for a straight answer than letting it go on and on. But do consider if the person may show signs of avoidant attachment and try to move on if that's the case and you're not far into your AP healing work.
How long are you talking when you say "never asks you out, there's a reason"? Because some people are just shy to ask others out, fear of rejection, or not confident in their attractiveness, have had bad luck romantically-- and it isn't because of an avoidant attachment style or some other red flag.
Though, given some of the easier ways to ask someone out (email, text, private IM, etc.) I suppose even a shy person would hopefully do it eventually. Still, I wouldn't see it as a huge red flag. If you like them, ask them out. Nothing ventured nothing gained.
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Post by alexandra on Nov 28, 2018 0:54:19 GMT
A couple months. Sure there's shyness + getting to know someone which is okay, but there's fear and insecurity or other logistical reasons (not actually single, don't want to date a coworker or classmate, etc) that are going to make a relationship rocky. Anytime I've been in a situation like this, with very prolonged interest but no forward movement, it hasn't turned out well. Usually because the guy can't muster the strength to overcome the perceived obstacle, which really doesn't bode well for the future relationship.
There are exceptions, but that's what I've observed. You can give someone a chance or state what you want and be prepared to accept the answer, but I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket waiting around if there's no growth or progress and you're looking for there to be.
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