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Post by tinyrobotman on Dec 1, 2018 23:52:13 GMT
So I've read that the percentage of avoidants in the dating pool is higher than in the general population since they keep recycling and never attach long. Also that the pool grows even more avoidant as you get older which makes sense as well. I'm now on the downslope of my 40's. Long story short I'm trying to date again after a long and terrible "friendzone" type experience with a DA women. She is still in my life but the more I work on my self worth and become more secure the more likely I think it will be that it's not healthy for me to be around her going forward.
I recently got some new photos taken, updated my profile and went back to online dating. The good news is that with a new look and new photos I've matched with a lot of women who I would have thought were out of my league which has been great for my ego. I dated a few but found they had all the tell tale signs of being DA. Great spark on dates and then no contact for days until they want to get together again, no discussion of feelings about how things are going between us etc. One women told me that she needs lots of time alone and was fine when her ex was out of town for months at a time. So yes it seems the pool being more and more avoidant is probably true. To compound things I don't want children (mine or someone else's) so this further narrows the pool and maybe increases the percentage of avoidants.
The question is with attachment theory in mind what's the best thing to do to find healthy love for someone in middle age who's an AP? I'm feeling like I'm doomed since I didn't find someone secure when I was younger.
- Date younger and hope you find someone secure? Hate to say it but being a man this is possible but there are a lot of other issues with a big age difference. Probably the one secure women I've ever dated was a lot younger than me (unfortunately she also wanted children, ugh).
- Date someone mildly DA and hope they want to work on it (the old "maybe they'll change" problem).
- Date another AP and hope they want to work on it with you? When I've tried to date AP women either there's too much drama or I find them boring and needy.
Ideas?
- TRM
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Post by leavethelighton on Dec 2, 2018 0:38:06 GMT
Well, statistics aside, stay optimistic. It my be a bit tougher after 40 but...continue onward! If it's a numbers game, keep looking, but also make sure you aren't rejecting people out of looking for something that doesn't exist.
I am not sure any of your bullet points are great ideas. Date people because you enjoy being with them, while keeping in mind that someone with a secure attachment style is probably not going to be a "immediate sparks and passion" situation. Also I'd be careful about identifying attachment styles too early. We're not therapists, so...
I do wonder about what you see as red flags though. What kind of contact are you expecting between early dates? How long into it are you wanting discussions of feelings about how things are going?
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Post by 8675309 on Dec 2, 2018 1:12:10 GMT
I hear ya on the 40+, Im in that boat. Im secure attached.
I have only been in relationships with secures and it still didn't work out so finding a secure long ago doesn't mean you wouldn't still be where you are right now.
Stay single till you find a secure. Work on your own AP issues, get yourself secure first. Dont settle with an insecure attached and hope to fix it/deal with it, this is your own insecure attachment speaking.
The 35+ range is about 25% avoidant so there is still many secures left.
You may also want to rethink someone that has kids, I can understand not wanting any as Im not having any but I dont rule out men with kids already at all, thats shooting myself in the foot at my age, many will have kids... many are grown or teens by now anyways.
And yes how quickly are you discussing these feelings, etc? Even as a secure attached and one that can say what I want I dont rush this and those that do to me turn me off, my own avoidance is triggered.(I have a bit of avoidant in me but its triggered by specific things not the general avoidant triggers) Aps will trigger that in me and Im heavy on the secure attached side so you could be reading them wrong or you've come on strong, APs tend to do that.
Its also one of those things if you dont love yourself you cant love another properly.
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Post by boomerang on Dec 2, 2018 1:50:42 GMT
As one who is also trying the online dating thing at the older end of the scale, I can tell you that you are in much better position as a man than I am as woman! I am having almost no luck (only one date in 2 months); my male colleague, same age, is having no trouble getting dates. Forget attachment types--for older women, the pool is minuscule as only a small percentage of men are even looking at women of their own age. And they can go deep down into the younger pool, whereas very few men are interested in looking a women older than they are. You will be OK. I know plenty of great women in their 40s who are emotionally healthy, but missed the boat for one reason or another in the key pairing up years. Many were in relationships that didn't work out, and then found their pool (late 30s/40s) significantly diminished.
And even with the APs out there--they can be secure in relationships if they are stable. I can only speak for myself, but I am AP--and was severely activated by my DA/FA and became totally insane--but I am not activated at all when with someone who is consistent. The closer you are to secure, yourself, the greater the chances that you can have a great relationship with an AP, I think. So the pool widens again if you think about it like that.
With any attachment type, I think generally, too, that people who are in their 40s are more cautious as singles at that age have much more experience of things not working out. I was struck by your comment that there is no contact for days until they want to get together. Do you reach out to them after the dates, let them know you had a good time, see how their day has been going? Not in an overwhelming way, mind you, but just to them know you are interested? I think with a lot of women, we need that bridge as we face so much rejection after the prime dating years that we can be quick to say, "he's not into me" and write it off as a means of self-protection.
Even doing that, it is of course a numbers game at any age. Don't feel doomed, I am sure you are not! I see a huge pool of great women out there for you. I, on the other hand, may be doomed, if my experience with this is anything to go on. Which is very depressing.
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Post by 8675309 on Dec 2, 2018 2:01:23 GMT
Sometimes I feel doomed too boomerang ! LOL. As you're right guys my age want younger... even though I look younger than my age... I get the 55+ men and Im not interested in them at all, I like my age/bit younger. Thats said, I refuse to be doomed! haha. Im not actively dating at the moment as in not on dating sites. I am open to meeting/dating though, Im taking the meet one in person at this time as thats how its happens for me, someone comes my way. I'll open up to dating sites in time but for now Im just doing me. My FA/DA guys energy is still lingering anyways. |
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Post by tinyrobotman on Dec 2, 2018 2:07:59 GMT
I agree that staying single until I find a secure is the ideal. Thinking about dating the secure women several years back I remember how easy it was. Not that there wasn't issues, but the communication was open and drama free. Physical intimacy was mutual and giving. Even parting which we knew would happen eventually because of the kids issue and her wanting to move closer to family was done with love and we're still friends. She didn't trigger my AP tendencies much at all.
I'm open to someone with teenagers that will be out of the house soon and some can be fun to be around. However young children are a complete non-starter for me. I'd rather have my fingernails pulled out than be around a shrieking 6 year old and my lifestyle is completely incompatible with the time commitment of raising kids.
Don't get me wrong I'm not expecting to be having a long conversation about feelings and where things are going after 2 dates. I'm really not that guy, but after four or five weeks seems like some acknowledgement and discussion of how things are progressing seems appropriate. As for contact and red flags only one text during a week between dates seems like a red flag. The "ok with her partner being gone for a month" thing seemed like a big red flag to me as well.
I kind of disagree about identifying attachment styles too early. I feel like you can often spot a lot of the signs even in someone's dating profile. Not saying it's accurate enough to rule someone out, but it does raise some yellow flags for me if I read things like "strong and independent", "need a lot of alone time" "never married, looking for the one", especially at 40+.
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Post by boomerang on Dec 2, 2018 2:17:46 GMT
Sometimes I feel doomed too boomerang ! LOL. As you're right guys my age want younger... even though I look younger than my age... I get the 55+ men and Im not interested in them at all, I like my age/bit younger. Thats said, I refuse to be doomed! haha. Im not actively dating at the moment as in not on dating sites. I am open to meeting/dating though, Im taking the meet one in person at this time as thats how its happens for me, someone comes my way. I'll open up to dating sites in time but for now Im just doing me. My FA/DA guys energy is still lingering anyways.The irony is that online dating, which was supposed to help move me off him onto a new possibility, is actually making him look better than ever. ATM, I would happily take him back, just as he is, and be super happy about that. And this feeling comes from appreciation of the good part that he offered, not from anxiety or validation wishes. That was not my intended outcome when I decided to try this online dating thing! |
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Post by epicgum on Dec 2, 2018 2:30:28 GMT
As one who is also trying the online dating thing at the older end of the scale, I can tell you that you are in much better position as a man than I am as woman! I am having almost no luck (only one date in 2 months); my male colleague, same age, is having no trouble getting dates. Forget attachment types--for older women, the pool is minuscule as only a small percentage of men are even looking at women of their own age. And they can go deep down into the younger pool, whereas very few men are interested in looking a women older than they are. You will be OK. I know plenty of great women in their 40s who are emotionally healthy, but missed the boat for one reason or another in the key pairing up years. Many were in relationships that didn't work out, and then found their pool (late 30s/40s) significantly diminished. And even with the APs out there--they can be secure in relationships if they are stable. I can only speak for myself, but I am AP--and was severely activated by my DA/FA and became totally insane--but I am not activated at all when with someone who is consistent. The closer you are to secure, yourself, the greater the chances that you can have a great relationship with an AP, I think. So the pool widens again if you think about it like that. With any attachment type, I think generally, too, that people who are in their 40s are more cautious as singles at that age have much more experience of things not working out. I was struck by your comment that there is no contact for days until they want to get together. Do you reach out to them after the dates, let them know you had a good time, see how their day has been going? Not in an overwhelming way, mind you, but just to them know you are interested? I think with a lot of women, we need that bridge as we face so much rejection after the prime dating years that we can be quick to say, "he's not into me" and write it off as a means of self-protection. Even doing that, it is of course a numbers game at any age. Don't feel doomed, I am sure you are not! I see a huge pool of great women out there for you. I, on the other hand, may be doomed, if my experience with this is anything to go on. Which is very depressing. While, as a man, your post fills me with hope, I think that this is, in reality, untrue: theblog.okcupid.com/undressed-whats-the-deal-with-the-age-gap-in-relationships-3143a2ca5178 |
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Post by 8675309 on Dec 2, 2018 3:00:37 GMT
Sometimes I feel doomed too boomerang ! LOL. As you're right guys my age want younger... even though I look younger than my age... I get the 55+ men and Im not interested in them at all, I like my age/bit younger. Thats said, I refuse to be doomed! haha. Im not actively dating at the moment as in not on dating sites. I am open to meeting/dating though, Im taking the meet one in person at this time as thats how its happens for me, someone comes my way. I'll open up to dating sites in time but for now Im just doing me. My FA/DA guys energy is still lingering anyways.The irony is that online dating, which was supposed to help move me off him onto a new possibility, is actually making him look better than ever. ATM, I would happily take him back, just as he is, and be super happy about that. And this feeling comes from appreciation of the good part that he offered, not from anxiety or validation wishes. That was not my intended outcome when I decided to try this online dating thing! I can relate. Outside his attachment he was great and Im even ok with some distance since Im more the loner type, I love the connection/intimacy/sex but in smaller/medium doses. Well... I'll take sex in bigger doses! haha. Im into lets meet for an hour, have hot sex and a little snug, then go on with our day along with the intimate nights spending the night together, etc. The distancing is just too great... And I swear deep down he actually knows Im good poo and he could trust me on some level, I give freely. Im calm and express my feelings in a positive calm way with low pressure. He also knows I need my own space. My gut tells me he knows I have his back. I think it triggers him to run harder/faster/quicker triggered. Im out of his element just like he is out of mine. haha.
To add: I have a mini fear when I go back to dating I will come across those that want to engulf me over another avoidant. Even some secures want more time than I want since Im a secure that needs more space. Im a secure that would be ok communal space with our own bedrooms as long as we make the time to connect/have our intimate/snug times. I dont need everything together to feel close or connected.
Recently I had a convo at a local pub with someone and her and her hubby have separate rooms and people they know dont understand but it works for them, they are very happy. I told her i get it and she was elated in a way that someone understood what they have and how it works for them.
Sorry OP, mini derail! LOL
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Post by stayhappy on Dec 2, 2018 8:39:31 GMT
I’m 31 and I have been in some dates with guys at their 30s and I think most of them are avoidants. The ones who hade too many relationsships or any really serious relationships at all are not something I’ll invest my time anymore. But it can be a really bit hard to know if someone is an avoidat because my ”ex” avoidant till exempel hade a 6 years relationship and in the very beggning he was not acting avoidant at all. He seemed secured actually. But than later it comes out that his relationship was a diatant relashionship so they problaby didn’t see eachother so much to make him get so triggered. He was in the beggning of his 20s... I think efter 3 years is time enough to get engaged, get marry, move in together. From what he said I think the girl just got tired of waiting that something would happen...
Sometimes I also feel like investing at younger guys LOL. Everyone says I look like I’m 20 and not 30. At the university I have a lot a contact with guys who are at their 20s and they like me. They are not afraid to tell me what they feel for me, they are consistent and much more mature than some 30s guys I have dated. But at same time I’m afraid I’m ready to things they aren’t like having kids. The funny thing is that they say ”I’ll be finished with my studies in two years. It won’t be hard for me to get a job. I’ll be ready!”... while my avoidant was ”I have to focus a lot at my job.” ”Children are serious stuff. I wanna have it but with the one”... And his answer is similar to other avoidants I have met...
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Post by LittleMe on Dec 2, 2018 10:10:16 GMT
I’m 31 and I have been in some dates with guys at their 30s and I think most of them are avoidants. The ones who hade too many relationsships or any really serious relationships at all are not something I’ll invest my time anymore. But it can be a really bit hard to know if someone is an avoidat because my ”ex” avoidant till exempel hade a 6 years relationship and in the very beggning he was not acting avoidant at all. He seemed secured actually. But than later it comes out that his relationship was a diatant relashionship so they problaby didn’t see eachother so much to make him get so triggered. He was in the beggning of his 20s... I think efter 3 years is time enough to get engaged, get marry, move in together. From what he said I think the girl just got tired of waiting that something would happen... Sometimes I also feel like investing at younger guys LOL. Everyone says I look like I’m 20 and not 30. At the university I have a lot a contact with guys who are at their 20s and they like me. They are not afraid to tell me what they feel for me, they are consistent and much more mature than some 30s guys I have dated. But at same time I’m afraid I’m ready to things they aren’t like having kids. The funny thing is that they say ”I’ll be finished with my studies in two years. It won’t be hard for me to get a job. I’ll be ready!”... while my avoidant was ”I have to focus a lot at my job.” ”Children are serious stuff. I wanna have it but with the one”... And his answer is similar to other avoidants I have met... I was "that" ex. In my mid-late 20s I've been in a... Situation-ship with the love of my life. He refused to call it a relationship even though we could have been married as far as I know. He once told me that one can only know if a person is "the one" after 10 years. "Cool", I thought, "only 6 years are left... And I'll be in my mid 30s". I waited like stupid. Now I have no idea how can you expect from someone to wait that long to find out if you're willing to commit or not, to give up your youth. It's different for men. I'm in my late 30s, approaching my 40s now. Guys my age who are secure and open to a relationship go after younger women. Even if the difference is 3 to 5 years. They usually want to settle too. I'm targeted by 50 something clingy, desperate for a woman divorce men or those who aren't available. It's clear they're lonely and theyre trying to fill the void. Most of them never had a serious, long term relationship. I'm beginning to think I should give up. My time has passed. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2018 10:20:27 GMT
If it's any comfort to you, I'm 25 and also childfree, and it's been a nightmare trying to find a childfree emotionally available person for me too... it's just... gah. I understand as well as I can how small the dating pool must be for our kind haha
All we can do is stay in the game, and stay alert, and whether it happens or not, we have to find a way to be okay with either outcome I guess?
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hannah
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Post by hannah on Dec 2, 2018 10:45:32 GMT
The irony is that online dating, which was supposed to help move me off him onto a new possibility, is actually making him look better than ever. ATM, I would happily take him back, just as he is, and be super happy about that. And this feeling comes from appreciation of the good part that he offered, not from anxiety or validation wishes. That was not my intended outcome when I decided to try this online dating thing! I can relate. Outside his attachment he was great and Im even ok with some distance since Im more the loner type, I love the connection/intimacy/sex but in smaller/medium doses. Well... I'll take sex in bigger doses! haha. Im into lets meet for an hour, have hot sex and a little snug, then go on with our day along with the intimate nights spending the night together, etc. The distancing is just too great... And I swear deep down he actually knows Im good poo and he could trust me on some level, I give freely. Im calm and express my feelings in a positive calm way with low pressure. He also knows I need my own space. My gut tells me he knows I have his back. I think it triggers him to run harder/faster/quicker triggered. Im out of his element just like he is out of mine. haha.
To add: I have a mini fear when I go back to dating I will come across those that want to engulf me over another avoidant. Even some secures want more time than I want since Im a secure that needs more space. Im a secure that would be ok communal space with our own bedrooms as long as we make the time to connect/have our intimate/snug times. I dont need everything together to feel close or connected.
Recently I had a convo at a local pub with someone and her and her hubby have separate rooms and people they know dont understand but it works for them, they are very happy. I told her i get it and she was elated in a way that someone understood what they have and how it works for them.
Sorry OP, mini derail! LOL
Are you sure you are secure 8675309? It's not to criticize, but it's not the first time I read you and end thinking that you have a lot of avoiding traits. Haha |
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Post by stayhappy on Dec 2, 2018 10:59:00 GMT
I’m 31 and I have been in some dates with guys at their 30s and I think most of them are avoidants. The ones who hade too many relationsships or any really serious relationships at all are not something I’ll invest my time anymore. But it can be a really bit hard to know if someone is an avoidat because my ”ex” avoidant till exempel hade a 6 years relationship and in the very beggning he was not acting avoidant at all. He seemed secured actually. But than later it comes out that his relationship was a diatant relashionship so they problaby didn’t see eachother so much to make him get so triggered. He was in the beggning of his 20s... I think efter 3 years is time enough to get engaged, get marry, move in together. From what he said I think the girl just got tired of waiting that something would happen... Sometimes I also feel like investing at younger guys LOL. Everyone says I look like I’m 20 and not 30. At the university I have a lot a contact with guys who are at their 20s and they like me. They are not afraid to tell me what they feel for me, they are consistent and much more mature than some 30s guys I have dated. But at same time I’m afraid I’m ready to things they aren’t like having kids. The funny thing is that they say ”I’ll be finished with my studies in two years. It won’t be hard for me to get a job. I’ll be ready!”... while my avoidant was ”I have to focus a lot at my job.” ”Children are serious stuff. I wanna have it but with the one”... And his answer is similar to other avoidants I have met... I was "that" ex. In my mid-late 20s I've been in a... Situation-ship with the love of my life. He refused to call it a relationship even though we could have been married as far as I know. He once told me that one can only know if a person is "the one" after 10 years. "Cool", I thought, "only 6 years are left... And I'll be in my mid 30s". I waited like stupid. Now I have no idea how can you expect from someone to wait that long to find out if you're willing to commit or not, to give up your youth. It's different for men. I'm in my late 30s, approaching my 40s now. Guys my age who are secure and open to a relationship go after younger women. Even if the difference is 3 to 5 years. They usually want to settle too. I'm targeted by 50 something clingy, desperate for a woman divorce men or those who aren't available. It's clear they're lonely and theyre trying to fill the void. Most of them never had a serious, long term relationship. I'm beginning to think I should give up. My time has passed. I’m sorry to hear that! I don’t think they understand it. My “ex” was surprised that his ex just broke up when he moved to a even more far away city. I asked why didn’t you proposed? And he said “I don’t know I thought about it later but It was probably too late.” I see clearly why the girl left him but he doesn’t! I’m sorry for him too who wants a relationship but fear intimacy. There are secure men out there. You just have to recognize the signs. Don’t give up on love! |
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hannah
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Post by hannah on Dec 2, 2018 11:03:57 GMT
You must do like me: I jumped into this secure guy just after he broke up with his looooong-term girlfriend!
I'm just kidding, when we started to date (online dating) I didn't know at first he was freshly single. And I was surprised to find a secure/slightly AP man attractive but, I'm FA, and at the second date I started to kind of deactivate already *facepalm*. We will see, I'm trying to don't give up, he is great...
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