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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2018 12:53:41 GMT
So seven months ago I started seeing an acq. I met through a mutual friend and hobby. We hit it off because we had loads of shared obscure interests and similar temperaments. We'd have great times together like mindblowing, but free-flowing conversations and he seemed interested/super nervous, but happy around me and then he'd detach... I'm a psych junkie so I quickly picked up that he was probably and classic FA. I was very vocal from the beginning about how much intimacy and communication are important to me, he told me had different ideas of that, but we both liked each other and wanted to try to meet each other's needs.
I'll spare you all the nitty gritty details, but basically, we started off the first three months off as really slow. Things progressed a lot after that and he was integrating me into his friends' group, hobbies, the sex started getting better, telling me about his childhood/past hurts, took me to meet his family, and becoming more vocal around me about how beautiful and special I was so I told myself that everything was okay. I ignored the red flags about him bringing up twice that he was damaged, him tearing up whenever I brought up the future in general, wanting exclusivity but not commitment (he's moving in a year) and withdrawing whenever we'd have intense days together because I saw how much he was trying with me and going to therapy. Also, because I've been reserved my whole life until a few years ago and he's the first person I've ever thought I could love. I wanted to make it work until...
Finally, about a month ago I couldn't take his occasional detachment/deactivating strategies anymore. I was becoming increasingly anxious and had cognitive dissonance because as much as I liked him I didn't feel securely attached to him. We've been pretty open about our feelings or at least I was since the beginning so we agreed to keep it friendly and he seemed happy with that, but then he started clinging and being more interested in hanging out. One night, two weeks ago we went to go watch a band. We were having a great time and in one moment he was buying me lots of drinks, telling me how wonderful I was, and that his mother approved of me and then after I squeezed his hand and asked him why he didn't try harder while we were together he switched with tears in his eyes he told me how he didn't have that spark with me, wasn't in love, and he just realized (mind you the week before he said he was happy while we were together and that he wasn't anxious about anything about us at all),
We had an argument after that. I felt really strung along and that he equated our relationship to a transient feeling. More than anything I was hurt not that he didn't want me, but that he just turned cold on me. He just said "Yeah sorry just noticed" "I just need to get better at recognizing my feelings" "Sorry" "Sorry you're hurt" and adding girls from Tinder on Facebook while completely ignoring the fact that it wasn't just romance we had. We were increasingly best friends for the last couple of months.
Anyway, I can't tell if he literally self-sabotaged the relationship because we were getting close and he knew what I wanted wasn't just exclusivity, but commitment and he couldn't deal with those expectations, if he really didn't have a spark with me, or if he's just been using me to fill a void inside him. We're now on civil terms per my decision and agreed not to see each other for a while.
I know I'm not going to get a straight answer from him and that's he not worth the anxiety or the effort anymore. I would have to be batshit crazy to ever go back to him, but how do I move on from someone with FA? Why would you just get so close to someone and then just go cold out of nowhere? That's what's hurting me ultimately. How cold he's been to me while still saying "Yeah I care about you" and pretending that his loss of feelings out of nowhere isn't a big deal.
I know it's ultimately about him and his own fears of intimacies and his own self-defense mechanisms. I know I tried my best and this isn't a reflection of my lovability, but any thoughts from FAs on this kind of behavior or any advice on how to move on would be appreciated. I'm okay sometimes and then I remember that the guy who was increasingly becoming my best friend/boyfriend just iced me out of nowhere.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 7, 2018 17:28:47 GMT
So seven months ago I started seeing an acq. I met through a mutual friend and hobby. We hit it off because we had loads of shared obscure interests and similar temperaments. We'd have great times together like mindblowing, but free-flowing conversations and he seemed interested/super nervous, but happy around me and then he'd detach... I'm a psych junkie so I quickly picked up that he was probably and classic FA. I was very vocal from the beginning about how much intimacy and communication are important to me, he told me had different ideas of that, but we both liked each other and wanted to try to meet each other's needs. I'll spare you all the nitty gritty details, but basically, we started off the first three months off as really slow. Things progressed a lot after that and he was integrating me into his friends' group, hobbies, the sex started getting better, telling me about his childhood/past hurts, took me to meet his family, and becoming more vocal around me about how beautiful and special I was so I told myself that everything was okay. I ignored the red flags about him bringing up twice that he was damaged, him tearing up whenever I brought up the future in general, wanting exclusivity but not commitment (he's moving in a year) and withdrawing whenever we'd have intense days together because I saw how much he was trying with me and going to therapy. Also, because I've been reserved my whole life until a few years ago and he's the first person I've ever thought I could love. I wanted to make it work until... Finally, about a month ago I couldn't take his occasional detachment/deactivating strategies anymore. I was becoming increasingly anxious and had cognitive dissonance because as much as I liked him I didn't feel securely attached to him. We've been pretty open about our feelings or at least I was since the beginning so we agreed to keep it friendly and he seemed happy with that, but then he started clinging and being more interested in hanging out. One night, two weeks ago we went to go watch a band. We were having a great time and in one moment he was buying me lots of drinks, telling me how wonderful I was, and that his mother approved of me and then after I squeezed his hand and asked him why he didn't try harder while we were together he switched with tears in his eyes he told me how he didn't have that spark with me, wasn't in love, and he just realized (mind you the week before he said he was happy while we were together and that he wasn't anxious about anything about us at all), We had an argument after that. I felt really strung along and that he equated our relationship to a transient feeling. More than anything I was hurt not that he didn't want me, but that he just turned cold on me. He just said "Yeah sorry just noticed" "I just need to get better at recognizing my feelings" "Sorry" "Sorry you're hurt" and adding girls from Tinder on Facebook while completely ignoring the fact that it wasn't just romance we had. We were increasingly best friends for the last couple of months. Anyway, I can't tell if he literally self-sabotaged the relationship because we were getting close and he knew what I wanted wasn't just exclusivity, but commitment and he couldn't deal with those expectations, if he really didn't have a spark with me, or if he's just been using me to fill a void inside him. We're now on civil terms per my decision and agreed not to see each other for a while. I know I'm not going to get a straight answer from him and that's he not worth the anxiety or the effort anymore. I would have to be batshit crazy to ever go back to him, but how do I move on from someone with FA? Why would you just get so close to someone and then just go cold out of nowhere? That's what's hurting me ultimately. How cold he's been to me while still saying "Yeah I care about you" and pretending that his loss of feelings out of nowhere isn't a big deal. I know it's ultimately about him and his own fears of intimacies and his own self-defense mechanisms. I know I tried my best and this isn't a reflection of my lovability, but any thoughts from FAs on this kind of behavior or any advice on how to move on would be appreciated. I'm okay sometimes and then I remember that the guy who was increasingly becoming my best friend/boyfriend just iced me out of nowhere. Welcome to the boards. I can't speak to him or to you.....but from reading what you have above...it sounds like he is not ready for the kind of relationship you seek. So regardless of his words or actions, it sounds like you would be best suited to keep him as a friend. That way...there are no expectations and disappointments when he gets triggered or scared or says something off the wall because your investment in him is at a friend level. if you can't do that...and it is ok if you can't because that is where I am at...trying to find my way back to friendship but having issues with comparison, jealousy, hope, what if stories. So the guy I dated and I don't see each often....and when we do...it is kept platonic and I have asked him not to share about other girls. Sometimes it truly is best to spend time apart regrouping with a clear understanding that you are not abandoning or rejecting him, but you are focusing on yourself. It provides you and him a chance to reset. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Dec 8, 2018 1:01:18 GMT
Keep in mind that his behavior isn't conscious. It's not like he chooses to turn it on and off like a light switch. He may very well have feelings that do feel that way to him-- he's not necessarily lying or hiding what what he feels-- but he also likely can't control it. His brain is wired that way due probably to experiences from his past. Without major intervention (ex: therapy) he's unlikely to be able to sustain romantic feelings for someone in a healthy way. It also sounds like he has unrealistic expectations for what he'd be feeling in a relationship (if he thinks he's always be feeling "in love" or whatever).
But that "yeah sorry just noticed" thing-- I can see how that would feel like B.S. to you if your mind and feelings work in a very different way.
When you ask how to move on, what does "move on" mean to you?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2018 4:02:33 GMT
He has issues with anxiety issues and PTSD. So it's probably beyond fearful avoidance and he's probably being honest, but I feel like somehow my reality with him wasn't real.
We both live abroad and have limited, close friends circle. I have a bit more friends than him so it's weird to me that after spending a lot of our time the last six months together, shared activities, opening up about childhoods + past hurts, great sex, etc. he could just be so passive. What shatters me is that I felt a deep sense of belonging with him and he said he felt that way about me too so to just disconnect like that emotionally, without saying anything afterwards, and just being cold is so troublesome to me. Like he just lost or never had the ability to properly relate to me even just as a friend. You don't need to fall in love to give someone you spend a lot of time with and was pretty a chunk of your emotional support system a proper apology (without taking responsibility for my emotions) and some reassurance.
So I just feel a bit lost as to how to move on, I guess. Like I don't know who he is or what the hell I experienced. Like I was relating with someone who couldn't properly relate. Like my reality wasn't real because I feel like I witnessed a part of it, but he didn't - yet we were both in it. I know that it was real for me and that's ultimately all that matters. I know it's good I found out early on before I invested any more, but it doesn't make any of this less painful.
I'm looking up psychotherapists now. I think maybe what I need to move on is not come in contact with him and go to therapy. I think I need to work out accepting that I'll never fully understood him and that my own narrative isn't any less real just because his is different. I think I need to stop obsessing over how our relationship went down and just accept that we all have subjective realities and that I tried my best.
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Post by chipper on Dec 8, 2018 6:44:48 GMT
Keep in mind that his behavior isn't conscious. It's not like he chooses to turn it on and off like a light switch. He may very well have feelings that do feel that way to him-- he's not necessarily lying or hiding what what he feels-- but he also likely can't control it. His brain is wired that way due probably to experiences from his past. Without major intervention (ex: therapy) he's unlikely to be able to sustain romantic feelings for someone in a healthy way. It also sounds like he has unrealistic expectations for what he'd be feeling in a relationship (if he thinks he's always be feeling "in love" or whatever). But that "yeah sorry just noticed" thing-- I can see how that would feel like B.S. to you if your mind and feelings work in a very different way. When you ask how to move on, what does "move on" mean to you? Good advice here. It’s him, and not you. He would react that way with anyone. I’m sorry you’re going through this, and can relate to how you feel. Moving on takes time. Meditation and journaling have helped me speed that up. If you want to stay in contact, set objective boundaries. I’m friends with my ex FA, but won’t sleep with her. |
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Post by 8675309 on Dec 8, 2018 12:52:55 GMT
While its not the usual dynamic with avoidants you just have to go on with your life like any other failed relationships. Its very hard as avoidants tend to trigger anxiousness in us and its hard to understand what happened but ultimately you're not meant to be at this time and just have to accept it and carry on.
You have to know as much as you're hurting right now and lost you WILL find someone else in time, take the lessons learned, grieve it, then keep going.
For me personally I have to cut all contact, mute their social media, I cant be friends,(at least not till my feelings are gone, staying friends having feelings still just prolongs moving on, I dont know how people stay friends when they have feelings and want to move on, I dont know how they do it... I cannot, it hurts and prolongs healing for me) etc, out of sight out of mind. I distract myself with positive things like work, friends, hobbies etc, things that are good for me so I get back into the groove of life without my person. This helps propel the moving on process for me. Id say it propels most.
Ive also written letters and burned them to help me release. Mine did not open at all with me on how he saw me, etc he just ghosts and vanishes for weeks so I have to give myself closure and go on. I do not have a clue what he thinks or feels so thats hard too.
A FA/DA guy brought me here, we are about 2 months no contact. I still have thoughts of him, more than Id like but they are becoming less and less. And even though it still stings, it was not about me, Im awesome and he is not capable of fully seeing it or capable of having a healthy things with me. I cannot do anything about it.
I actually think deep down he does see me and knows on some level he can trust me but his avoidancy/anxiety takes it over. I also think he knows I know what healthy is and I want that with him/for him. Until he becomes self aware/starts to heal it would always be a '3 party' relashionship, his attachment, him, them me way at the bottom.
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Post by leavethelighton on Dec 8, 2018 18:46:30 GMT
I know what you mean about having trouble feeling like you understand it. You're being so smart about it though. Like "I think I need to stop obsessing over how our relationship went down and just accept that we all have subjective realities and that I tried my best."
Embrace that. It took me years to figure this out so the fact that you're figuring it out in only a month is impressive in my book.
It's okay to grieve the loss too.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2018 23:22:08 GMT
My last love was FA, and did pretty much the exact same thing to me... it was heartbreaking.
As an FA myself, I've also been in his shoes, and it really does just "become apparent" that you're not that into somebody, and for me it would normally be because I had some idea in my head about what I wanted from a relationship or this sort of elusive feeling in my head that I needed to feel to recognise it as love... later, I realised that elusive feeling is based on novelty and infatuation - I really thought that infatuation was love, and that's what I was talking about when I said I didn't love people, and it really was like a switch, I could feel nothing for them... but it's not that, I could just move on very very easily, AS IF they meant nothing to me, but really, I think I was suppressing it because I found committing to them so impossible, that I "knew" they weren't the right person for me. More like, I'm not the right person for that relationship.
I don't know how other FAs heal, I've had counselling training and my own therapy, and it's taken a really long time, and my capacity for intimacy has grown SO much, but the process was so unconscious, that I would have had no idea that I was a commitment phobe... I just knew I hadn't met the "right" person yet.
I hope this feedback helps... FAs tend to leave because they are feeling pain, discomfort and longing in their relationship that they don't understand, it just appears that they must leave to change this
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Post by alexandra on Dec 8, 2018 23:43:51 GMT
I don't know how other FAs heal, I've had counselling training and my own therapy, and it's taken a really long time, and my capacity for intimacy has grown SO much, but the process was so unconscious, that I would have had no idea that I was a commitment phobe... I just knew I hadn't met the "right" person yet. I hope this feedback helps... FAs tend to leave because they are feeling pain, discomfort and longing in their relationship that they don't understand, it just appears that they must leave to change this. My ex FA did this to me. I blew his mind when I told him he was emotionally unavailable and afraid of commitment. And I just realized that I was causing him an enormous amount of pain even though it wasn't my fault -- his deactivation from me took the form of sexual withdrawal and he didn't understand it at all. Trying to sit through it so he could stay with me, without healing the attachment trauma, was hurting him. He cared deeply for me and felt strongly emotionally connected but I trigger his baggage and wounds just by being an attachment figure, and so he left. It must have felt like touching a hot stove. |
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Post by sissyk on Dec 9, 2018 15:27:14 GMT
Welcome! My story is posted under the DA section, but the guy I was seeing for 8 months may have been an FA or a mixed breed FA/DA. I just wanted to say my story sounds a lot like yours. He was open early on that he was "bad at relationships" and we never had sex as he didn't want to be exclusive--even though he hadn't had sex with anyone in a decade. We could talk for hours and hours, he was surprisingly candid about his demons, said how great he had met me because he had been so lonely, was an enthusiastic kisser, and vaguely alluded that a long term relationship was not out of the question in time. He stressed often he didn't want to hurt me. We shared many hobbies and interests and I thought--well, even if we are not going to be real romantic partners, at least this is a sturdy friendship!
As I reported on my thread, a couple of weeks ago I called him up and talked to him about my feelings about the ambiguity of our situation. I stressed how much I valued our time together and how great I thought he was etc. I thought the talk went well.
Since then--100 percent silence. I texted him twice in two weeks, the second time saying I didn't mean to overwhelm him and I would be so happy to just be friends. No reply. I have deleted his number from my phone so I am not tempted to reach out again. Meanwhile, he is burning up the dating site we met on! His green light is always on.
I am sad as I thought we had a unique friendship together forged over many many hours. Then poof! It is crazy making. I have been in tears over it off and on in these days. But I find comfort that I behaved with integrity the whole time. I was open minded, tried to be understanding once I caught on he might be DAFA, and was direct when needed. So I have nothing to regret. For his part, I can not imagine ghosting someone after all those months--it is shabby.
I do know now that we could never have had a real relationship if he flees at the first sign of disagreement. So I am liking the clarity and don't regret putting him to the litmus test. But people can be FA/DA and still behave like jerks. Its not a hall pass to harm others.
I get he might not want to keep seeing me, but I don't understand how you can not even send a text to that effect for a little closure. It hurts my faith in humanity, frankly.
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Post by mrob on Dec 9, 2018 16:13:42 GMT
I find it amazing that, even with so many resources here, some just don’t get it. It still comes down to “acting like a jerk”. Terribly sad. My story as an FA is all over these pages. Engulfment isn’t a choice for an untreated FA, just as is this need to pursue one’s own agenda and effectively corner them, and control their behaviour.
Onviously, the truth is some way between those extremes, but you get the idea.
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Post by sissyk on Dec 9, 2018 17:28:18 GMT
I find it amazing that, even with so many resources here, some just don’t get it. It still comes down to “acting like a jerk”. Terribly sad. My story as an FA is all over these pages. Engulfment isn’t a choice for an untreated FA, just as is this need to pursue one’s own agenda and effectively corner them, and control their behaviour. Onviously, the truth is some way between those extremes, but you get the idea. I'm guessing that is a reference to my post. I get an FA is experiencing the situation as overwhelming. I have experienced panic attacks over the years. I get the horror of a out of control nervous system. But honest question: this means in my sitch he is not able to send a quick text that says. Sorry...overwhelmed...nothing personal... done. My FA did put himself out there on a dating site where he contacted me first and while I was maybe more hopeful, he did send very mixed signals as I have detailed. Can't empathy and a responsibility to behave kindly go two ways even when people are in pain? Wouldn't he feel better to not ghost when he looks himself in the mirror? Again...honest questions. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 17:29:38 GMT
Welcome! My story is posted under the DA section, but the guy I was seeing for 8 months may have been an FA or a mixed breed FA/DA. I just wanted to say my story sounds a lot like yours. He was open early on that he was "bad at relationships" and we never had sex as he didn't want to be exclusive--even though he hadn't had sex with anyone in a decade. We could talk for hours and hours, he was surprisingly candid about his demons, said how great he had met me because he had been so lonely, was an enthusiastic kisser, and vaguely alluded that a long term relationship was not out of the question in time. He stressed often he didn't want to hurt me. We shared many hobbies and interests and I thought--well, even if we are not going to be real romantic partners, at least this is a sturdy friendship! As I reported on my thread, a couple of weeks ago I called him up and talked to him about my feelings about the ambiguity of our situation. I stressed how much I valued our time together and how great I thought he was etc. I thought the talk went well. Since then--100 percent silence. I texted him twice in two weeks, the second time saying I didn't mean to overwhelm him and I would be so happy to just be friends. No reply. I have deleted his number from my phone so I am not tempted to reach out again. Meanwhile, he is burning up the dating site we met on! His green light is always on. I am sad as I thought we had a unique friendship together forged over many many hours. Then poof! It is crazy making. I have been in tears over it off and on in these days. But I find comfort that I behaved with integrity the whole time. I was open minded, tried to be understanding once I caught on he might be DAFA, and was direct when needed. So I have nothing to regret. For his part, I can not imagine ghosting someone after all those months--it is shabby. I do know now that we could never have had a real relationship if he flees at the first sign of disagreement. So I am liking the clarity and don't regret putting him to the litmus test. But people can be FA/DA and still behave like jerks. Its not a hall pass to harm others. I get he might not want to keep seeing me, but I don't understand how you can not even send a text to that effect for a little closure. It hurts my faith in humanity, frankly. Ugh I feel like we more or less had the same experience... paiiiiinful. I cried for months about this guy because I couldn't see how he could just switch off like that... if it's any consolation, when I spoke to him, he said that although he isn't in love with me, he felt a gaping chasm in his life with me not in it. As an FA far along in my own journey, I recognise his behaviour... his ambiguity. It's so painful to be in those shoes... to love someone, but not love someone, all at once. To need someone, but to want to be free. The opposites are so painful to live with... I found it really a painful experience to love him, but I know he loved me too, he just has a weird relationship with love. I don't think he's a jerk. He has a relational wound. |
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Post by epicgum on Dec 9, 2018 17:46:18 GMT
I find it amazing that, even with so many resources here, some just don’t get it. It still comes down to “acting like a jerk”. Terribly sad. My story as an FA is all over these pages. Engulfment isn’t a choice for an untreated FA, just as is this need to pursue one’s own agenda and effectively corner them, and control their behaviour. Onviously, the truth is some way between those extremes, but you get the idea. I'm guessing that is a reference to my post. I get an FA is experiencing the situation as overwhelming. I have experienced panic attacks over the years. I get the horror of a out of control nervous system. But honest question: this means in my sitch he is not able to send a quick text that says. Sorry...overwhelmed...nothing personal... done. My FA did put himself out there on a dating site where he contacted me first and while I was maybe more hopeful, he did send very mixed signals as I have detailed. Can't empathy and a responsibility to behave kindly go two ways even when people are in pain? Wouldn't he feel better to not ghost when he looks himself in the mirror? Again...honest questions. I think that pain inherently reduces ones capacity for empathy and kindness in all contexts, not just relationships, because pain is your body saying "I'm being hurt, do something to stop it NOW" |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 17:54:37 GMT
I'm guessing that is a reference to my post. I get an FA is experiencing the situation as overwhelming. I have experienced panic attacks over the years. I get the horror of a out of control nervous system. But honest question: this means in my sitch he is not able to send a quick text that says. Sorry...overwhelmed...nothing personal... done. My FA did put himself out there on a dating site where he contacted me first and while I was maybe more hopeful, he did send very mixed signals as I have detailed. Can't empathy and a responsibility to behave kindly go two ways even when people are in pain? Wouldn't he feel better to not ghost when he looks himself in the mirror? Again...honest questions. I think that pain inherently reduces ones capacity for empathy and kindness in all contexts, not just relationships, because pain is your body saying "I'm being hurt, do something to stop it NOW" I absolutely agree with this epicgumAs an FA, I ghost a lot, because I am already out of my window of tolerance and my rational relational self is offline, and all I can think to do is scramble to make my life smaller, and I end up ghosting, and then feel too ashamed to come back around and explain |
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