|
|
Post by kibbins on Jan 4, 2019 17:46:26 GMT
It is nice when the door opens, even if just a litte bit or for a moment at a time, for honest and open communication and reflection. I instinctively would say though, take a step back and let him take the lead on what he wants to do with this perhaps new-found information - if he feels seeing a therapist will benefit him, I think it is important that he takes that first step and starts actively looking for one and gathering information. It might be easy to fall back into that pattern of wanting to take care, take over responsibility and take the leading role - but I honestly think, it is wonderful to, as a caring friend, provide certain information and inspiration if the other person is open to it, but I would then take a step back and see what the person wants to do with this information instead of already taking the lead on figuring out the next step(s). Especially for us who are anxious preoccupied and are so used to trying to figure things out and fix things (ultimately also so that WE can feel secure and better), it might be an important part of healing our wounds, to instead of taking the reigns, feel also when it is time to let go and let the other person figure out their own issues. After bringing up the information and seeing it is well received, it is great to offer support, but firstly, you need to look after yourself and your own needs and he for his. Oftentimes, for DA´s, that behaviour of ours to at times overextend ourselves trying to "figure them out and fix them", even if we might only perceive it as being loving and supportive, can feel smothering and daunting and at times intrusive, perhaps not right away, but after some time. This is just my insight and it might not be the case in your twos dynamic :-) Yeah, I screwed up. I already went too far unfortunately :/ and now I'm going to leave him alone. The only thing that was really discussed about his attachment was that he related to that screenshot, but I didn't explain the FA connection or dissect it.. anyway, it sucks because I know if he doesn't see a new therapist things will go back to how they were and he won't know why. And if I press it then he will get freaked out. Although i do know he wants to fix it but i think he thinks the problem is his depression when it isn't. So there's no way for success here |
|
|
|
Post by ocarina on Jan 4, 2019 19:59:38 GMT
kibbins sorry you've been though this - difficult times. It's important to recognise that although you feel you know what's right for him, everyone has their own journey and your first responsibility it so be kind and supportive to yourself - showing him the way, whilst it may feel to you as though you are being supportive, is basically routed in unsolicited advice which doesn't feel good to anyone - particularly not a DA. His path may well be very different from yours, but something we all learn along the way is that other people are not for fixing - and that what seems totally clear and obvious to us, may well be very far from their reality. Treat yourself with kindness by recognising that you can't control anyone but yourself and that at this point, coming back to yourself and recognising and embracing the pain - while letting go of him with as much love as you can muster.
|
|
|
|
Post by happyidiot on Jan 4, 2019 23:12:36 GMT
think he thinks the problem is his depression when it isn't. I'm sure the two are intertwined. |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 5, 2019 22:35:49 GMT
There was something alexandra wrote on here that struck me a bit, bc it sounded so much like D. What he did to his ex. And me. Today, I sent him the screenshot. We were in a conversation about why he wasn't ready for marriage and I said I knew why and he prodded me. I didn't feel like delving into a whole shpiel about attachment issues AGAIN so I sent him this tinypic.com/r/9qzcdz/9Hours later, he said "that is very me." I don't know how to stress the importance of him seeing a therapist about this without him taking it as me trying to change some fundamental thing about him, when I think he really just needs to talk to someone about his trauma..... I'm glad I'm able to describe things in a way that resonates. That may make it easier to understand the problem and possible steps to solve it. However, and it does sound like you know this on some level, you can't influence him to do something he doesn't already want to do on his own. I think you're right, he needs professional help with his trauma, because that is the core of it. But that's not up to you. You can try to gently tell him, once, briefly and as a friend, that you think it's still a great idea for him to start therapy and are supportive of that. But searching for doctors for him is overstepping for a few reasons. First: unless he's come to you to ask for your help in doing it, it actually shows you don't trust him to really do it himself and are swooping in to help achieve the goal YOU have for him, even though that's not your intention. Second: you should know if he's serious about confronting his issues. If he can't even take this step, he isn't and he's not ready. All talk, and actions not aligning. Third: there's more commitment and he can take more pride in starting the process if he's picked his own doctor and done it himself. And feeling pride, accomplishment, and true self worth is something all insecurely attached types need to build up, no matter which insecure style. I tried everything with my ex. We went from, he was thinking about therapy on his own and I was happy to hear that and supportive, to him (in retrospect) getting triggered to pull me back in -- which for some reason caused him to change his mind about therapy, maybe because my responsiveness gave him an ego boost but certainly because he wasn't seriously ready to start it yet --, to him insisting he was fine now and didn't need therapy, to him deactivating again, to him dumping me again, to him giving me the silent treatment for a month, to him starting a new simpler relationship another month later with a woman 10 years my junior that's been going on for a few months now. He has told me he doesn't think I did anything wrong the second time around, and I don't think I did either (EXCEPT that I didn't stick to my boundary that we'd only get back together if he started therapy... I wanted to see the effort to know we wouldn't just repeat). And what I'm seeing instead is he's completely repeating his patterns and looking to distract himself instead of trying something truly different (like, healing), and if I continue to be supportive and stick around like he still wants me to (as a friend!) it's only hurting me at this time. If he was ever ready to do the work and still wanted me in his life, I'm certain he'd let me know. I'm mostly saying, be careful, because I can sense the underlying hope in your post, and I've been there, but the only possibility it may pan out the way you want it to at all is if he's ready and willing. You can't do anything more to get him there, and really need to look out for youself when the problem is someone else's issues. Because he's in no place to look out for you and take responsibility for not being (unintentionally) hurtful towards you, so you're the only one who can have your own back. If you're no longer speaking, then try to take the opportunity to re-focus on youself and not put as much thought into what he needs to do. Easier said than done, but truly best for you. |
|
|
|
Post by kibbins on Jan 9, 2019 8:20:09 GMT
thanks. so just kinda reflecting on the history here and writing it out...
when i first met this guy, he was seeing a therapist semi regularly but they mostly talked about his work bc he thought work was the major problem/concern in his life and he has said he places his value as a person on his job unhealthily. his ex found him this therapist when he had stopped being able to have sex with her. he went to him for her to try to understand why. i am not sure what the therapist said (although i know he doesnt talk about or perhaps even believe in attachment issues) but even now when he was explaining what happened with her to me he said he stopped having sex because he "didnt see her that way anymore, she had become a ball of stress, she wasn't the one, etc". then when he started deactivating from sex with me, he told me, "as it turns out, i can only be sensitive/open or sexual but not both and i have been very vulnerable with you lately, i do want to have sex with you, but sometimes i just need to reset." for totally other reasons that make no sense though, we didn't talk for 5 weeks.
at the beginning of our "relationship" when we would have issues, he would text me and tell me he was going to Jonathan (therapist) to talk about them. But as time went on he went from saying he wanted to build a relationship with me to basically saying that was off the table because he had gone into a depression vortex and "needed to figure out how to be happy with himself first" while still texting me all the time. he stopped seeing the therapist. he didnt see him at all while we werent talking. he didnt work out while we werent talking. spent xmas alone. a couple days after we started talking again, he on his own said he was going to see a new therapist in 2019 and he started working out again. since we are talking now though i am pretty sure the therapist thing is off the table again. and when we're not talking hes too depressed and doesnt see the point, so the whole thing is just. :/ oof.
on saturday i reached out to clarify some things (i actually dont reach out very often. i am FA) and also said i would respect his own journey as far as the new therapist goes and not interfere. i also said i was stating my boundary where i needed him to talk to someone else who wasnt just me about his life so that every time he feels emotions around me it doesnt feel like he is "touching a hot stove". he agreed/thanked me and the whole thing was basically swept under the rug. saw him sunday and things were fine. now its like, things are "fine" again though still kinda feels like the "dance", but mostly because we only see each other once a week and i wish it was more.. and obviously i let some stuff go like that i told myself i wasnt going to talk to him if he wasnt seeing a therapist but its like, when he does see one (albeit it is probably because its not the right therapist), it basically changes nothing, and not talking to him kinda hurts worse, so here i am, just back treading water. we get along so well and are so weirdly similar with things and i miss him so much when we arent talking. i dont know what to do. i doubt he will make the therapist appointment. this morning he made some comment about how he needs to save up so and so money "for when we get engaged" (he will make random comments like this)... yet we are not "together". WHAT AM I DOING. i know this isnt healthy and yet i miss him right now, am talking to other people to try not to get so wrapped up in it, and cant walk away. i have never gotten like this with anyone else. sometimes i think if i just coast along he will open up more and feel more comfortable and things will eventually lead somewhere normal.. there have been baby steps made, like, he lets me sleep over now and that took months. i also think about how he did normal things with his ex like bring her around his family and friends and had an actual titled relationship.. but not with me.. and he made some comment about how it was because hes "become more of a whack job as hes gotten older and used to be able to figure things out while in relationships but now he is gun shy"....ok..
btw as a random side note, he has not met a single friend of mine after 10 months.
|
|
|
|
Post by kibbins on Jan 9, 2019 8:22:36 GMT
alexandra re: your ex's new simpler relationship, did he talk about the new relationship to you, or you figured it out or saw via social media? curious about this part
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 9, 2019 9:11:01 GMT
alexandra re: your ex's new simpler relationship, did he talk about the new relationship to you, or you figured it out or saw via social media? curious about this part We're not really talking, on my end because I don't want to and apparently on his end because he's begrudgingly allowing her to tell him he's not allowed to talk to me. We needed to discuss something else and he ended up bringing up her existence as part of the conversation. He'd avoided doing so for months, but in the unrelated context it didn't make sense not to, then he went into detail (like complaining that she didn't want him talking to me, which made me feel like he was disrespecting us both). I hid him on all social media etc. as soon as he broke up with me again (which I'd also done the first time), and I never look once I do that. |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 9, 2019 9:50:30 GMT
kibbins, I will also say that both my FA exes have eventually complained to me about their new partners within a few months of those relationships starting. They both nitpicked me when they deactivated, and they clearly do it to other women, too. It actually makes me very uncomfortable because I think it's terrible to treat your partner that way (if you're unhappy with each and every partner, face your issues already!), and I try to limit it and change topic when the ex I'm actually friends with complains about his long-term lady. I'd be upset if the more recent ex was super happy with the new gf because of the implicit comparison of course, but I don't want him to be unhappy or making his partners feel bad forever... especially once I'm finally totally over it! I don't wish either of them ill, so what he shared with me didn't make me happy to hear, even if it stung a tiny bit less to confirm he's consistently bringing the same crap to every relationship and it wasn't just me. I'm going to respect this girl's space even if he's being shady about it. It's astonishing to me how little the older unaware FA has changed over several years, which is why I keep suggesting that you be careful if your guy isn't actively trying to work on his problems in a very real way, and that you start to pull the focus back to youself and away from how he might feel. You're right, someone can find a therapist who lets them talk and doesn't help, if they're looking to check the "therapy" box but really want to be comfortably enabled. And if that person continues to do that in spite of experiencing symptoms that never get better or people giving feedback that maybe something is still wrong, that person's not ready to try harder. Sometimes, it's also about the person continuing to repeat the same relationship mistakes with different people until they finally see the pattern! And, as mrob thoughtfully reminded me elsewhere, your guy and my ex may both have more repetition cycles to go through in their process before they can see the problems clearly enough to realize they should be addressed. And you should never put yourself on hold for that.
|
|
