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Post by kibbins on Dec 10, 2018 21:19:08 GMT
My relationship with a very DA ex (we never even made it official bc that was too much for him, he said it would raise too much vulnerability) seems to be over.
-Consistently treated me as a last priority, put his friends and work (workaholic) before me, wouldn't invite me to any outings with his friends, stop being able to have sex or even take his jeans off in bed, stopped being able to sleep over, devalued me, but would have flashes of saying nice things to me. Said I was the closest person to him in his life. If anything ever arose argument-wise between us I always had to be the one to reach out. He was thankful every time but I'm tired and I can't do it again.
The thing that is kind of driving me insane is that there was no real or actual end. He watched my dog over Thanksgiving (he refused to invite me to his friends thanksgiving dinner) so I went on a 1-day vacation that he refused to come with me on. When I came back I said I was almost home and he made it clear he was just going to "run the dog out" AKA did not want to hang out with me, even though he was just home by himself. He always said he needed his (a lot of) alone time and had an unhealthy addiction to pornography. So he came outside my apartment in his car and I came outside, he said "she missed you" and I took the dog from his hands and tossed a bracelet of his he had left into his lap, said "bye." and walked away. That was 2 1/2 weeks ago. The last texts were "I'm here" and "One Sec".
He hasn't reappeared on any dating apps and he has no social media and we have no mutual friends. He was very depressed starting months before we ended and tried to blame his inability to be a partner on that. I wish there was more closure. I'll have a couple days when I think less about him and then I find something and remember something sweet he said. I once asked if he ever reached out to an ex when he missed them and he said no, that he had "rigid boundaries" about that stuff, because he couldn't be vulnerable like that. I've been on a couple dates since. I feel numb and almost like I won't ever feel emotionally available ever again.
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Post by sissyk on Dec 11, 2018 18:06:04 GMT
Not sure what others suggest here but could you phone him and ask if he is done done done? And say that the closure of a final conversation would be helpful for you. Seems like you have nothing to lose if it would help you make sense of it.
I'm a big believer in the direct approach, which has helped me cope with my DA/FA s fade.....
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Post by chipper on Dec 11, 2018 19:21:48 GMT
Sorry you're going through this, kibbins.
You'll feel emotionally available again!
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Post by faithopelove on Dec 11, 2018 22:27:36 GMT
Not sure what others suggest here but could you phone him and ask if he is done done done? And say that the closure of a final conversation would be helpful for you. Seems like you have nothing to lose if it would help you make sense of it. I'm a big believer in the direct approach, which has helped me cope with my DA/FA s fade..... I like the direct approach too...makes it hard with a DA but I muster up the courage occasionally. |
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Post by kibbins on Dec 11, 2018 23:44:44 GMT
Contacting him would make him disrespect me more than he already does. That's how these people work. Reaching out is needing them and need is pathetic.
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Post by kibbins on Dec 11, 2018 23:45:57 GMT
The only thing giving me SOME power right now is that I walked away from his car and never texted. I don't know if I'm ready to give that up but I'm also driving myself nuts thinking about him.
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Post by kibbins on Dec 11, 2018 23:52:56 GMT
Did we ever figure out if avoidants miss people?
Btw, this whole thing has made me realize how emotionally unavailable I am myself. Here I am pursuing a guy for almost a year that doesn't even have the capacity to love another person— and before him, a guy who was living here for a few months from another country. Just going after people who feel safe to like who will never meet my needs.
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Post by sissyk on Dec 12, 2018 14:11:02 GMT
The only thing giving me SOME power right now is that I walked away from his car and never texted. I don't know if I'm ready to give that up but I'm also driving myself nuts thinking about him. Perhaps in a week or so if he hasn't reappeared, you will feel steady enough to contact him to get some closure as an act of claiming your power for yourself on your terms. Because you want to understand and hear directly from him that he is done done done. It sounds like you had a difficult relationship but that is a reasonable wish of a reasonable person as you were part of each others lives in a significant way for a while. If he doesn't respect that, that is about him and not you. If he can't or won't respond, you will know you stood up for yourself and what you needed to start to feel better. |
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Post by faithopelove on Dec 12, 2018 23:02:46 GMT
Did we ever figure out if avoidants miss people? Btw, this whole thing has made me realize how emotionally unavailable I am myself. Here I am pursuing a guy for almost a year that doesn't even have the capacity to love another person— and before him, a guy who was living here for a few months from another country. Just going after people who feel safe to like who will never meet my needs. Hey...I haven’t figured out if avoidants miss people enough to try again. At least that’s what I’ve experienced with my DA. He pursued and wanted to be “all in” for 6 months. He was loving, attentive- red flags near the end of our relationship and in his speaking of his history being closed off to all other women. I thought we were solid and unbreakable. I believed him with my whole heart when he said I’d never be able to get rid of him. Fast forward one year since our break up and he’s still shut down emotionally. I feel like he only wants me for physical reasons- we see each other 1-2 times a month and he has me in and out of his house within the hour. He claims he never said he views me as only physical but he also doesn’t communicate how he thinks of me. I only know he broke up with me and hasn’t been willing to talk on the phone or show any concern in a year. He very rarely initiates texts. He has also said he feels incapable of being in a relationship and in a “weird place.” So tired of investing in someone who never seems to care about me or miss me. He remains alone and prefers alone to communication. He doesn’t seem happy- he tells me he’s not ok, but he’s also unwilling to address any issues. The wonderful guy I fell in love with seems to be no more. I’m at a loss, but I stopped reaching out last Friday when he was too busy that weekend to see me. The excuses are so transparent. |
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Post by kibbins on Dec 12, 2018 23:49:38 GMT
sissyk I was reading your thread last night and I related to a lot of parts.. this guy also told me he was "bad at relationships" from the start but there was a period when he was really trying. The most vulnerable this guy ever got with me was in late September when he wrote something like: "When we were just friends I think I felt safer because I didn't have to worry about you not liking me and it felt more like we were equals. But obviously I have stronger feelings for you than just friends. I want to be able to give you what you need emotionally because so much about us being together makes sense to me. I want to be someone you turn to in times for support and be someone that you feel safe with." After THAT, things slowly unraveled. He distanced, I had to reach out a couple times in times of not talking, he said it made more sense for him to be alone because he didn't want to feel like he was hurting people. I asked if he was happier alone and he said probably not but that he didn't feel like he was hurting anyone. He also said he was depressed, needed to "learn how to be a partner" (but he stopped going to his therapist, so, obviously didn't care that much), stopped bothering inviting me around his friends altogether, took back his offer to see a therapist with me, etc etc. I'm really trying to investigate my part in this- like I wrote above I did think maybe it was because I am emotionally unavailable which I feel emotionally numb towards other people right now as I still have major feelings for this guy.., but actually we did have such a great connection humor wise and just in general that was really rare for me (he commented on it also) and I feel like he is a really "high-quality" person also in a lot of ways. Then today I was reading about how your guy wouldnt have sex.. this guy was like that at the beginning for a few months. it took maybe 6 weeks to even kiss each other. then there was maybe a 3 month period that was pretty solid sex-wise, then he just stopped being able to. when i questioned him about it, he said "it turns out, i can only either be sensitive/open, or sexual, but not both at the same time, and obviously this is a huge problem as i have let you in and now i can't be physical...." BTW, it happened with his ex also. i would imagine that if he was older, (were 31) he would probably have shut off entirely. if i ever get over this, i need to at least be friends with him, to see what happens. faithopelove --- so strange what is with all these people using the term "weird place". he said that all the time. or "dark place" sometimes. does your guy have a job/leave the house/have a social life? with D there were a couple times when he came over when he wanted sex and he was still into me at that point, but afterwards he had to leave, and it kinda brings back how he said he can either be sexual or emotionally intimate, i don't even think he felt comfortable viewing me both ways. so had to flee after. i read some thing about "madonna and the whore syndrome" with avoidants and also narcissists, coming down to either you are the madonna or the "whore", but the madonna is their mother figure, and after awhile when you cross into that role it feels almost incestual to them and they cant be sexual anymore, unless you cross back and they deactivate from the connection. who knows if this applies to any of these cases. i am very curious about the fact that my guy hasnt gotten back on dating apps. that was the only place he met women. but also, he told me he distrusts women, so he probably is comfortable just not having any in his life right now. enough time has gone by NC (3 weeks) that i could reach out, i would just need to think long and hard about how to word this. i also had the insane idea to mail him a package ("accidentally") from Amazon that he would need to contact me about because this used to happen all the time since i used to get stuff mailed there and when i would order things on my phone it sometimes auto-sent there. and just see if he contacts me. hahaha. he probably wouldnt even know what to do. he told me he never reaches out after a breakup even if he greatly misses the person bc he cant deal w the vulnerability and that his entire life was a "fear and shame spiral". yet, he has this high powered job at an ad firm. anyway........... oh, did i mention he still shares his location with me on iphone? i almost wish i didnt have it. i thought about accidentally "running into" him, but he doesnt really go anywhere but work and home, so its almost worthless lol. sorry thats so long. hope you guys were in the mood for a book! |
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Post by faithopelove on Dec 13, 2018 2:09:15 GMT
sissyk I was reading your thread last night and I related to a lot of parts.. this guy also told me he was "bad at relationships" from the start but there was a period when he was really trying. The most vulnerable this guy ever got with me was in late September when he wrote something like: "When we were just friends I think I felt safer because I didn't have to worry about you not liking me and it felt more like we were equals. But obviously I have stronger feelings for you than just friends. I want to be able to give you what you need emotionally because so much about us being together makes sense to me. I want to be someone you turn to in times for support and be someone that you feel safe with." After THAT, things slowly unraveled. He distanced, I had to reach out a couple times in times of not talking, he said it made more sense for him to be alone because he didn't want to feel like he was hurting people. I asked if he was happier alone and he said probably not but that he didn't feel like he was hurting anyone. He also said he was depressed, needed to "learn how to be a partner" (but he stopped going to his therapist, so, obviously didn't care that much), stopped bothering inviting me around his friends altogether, took back his offer to see a therapist with me, etc etc. I'm really trying to investigate my part in this- like I wrote above I did think maybe it was because I am emotionally unavailable which I feel emotionally numb towards other people right now as I still have major feelings for this guy.., but actually we did have such a great connection humor wise and just in general that was really rare for me (he commented on it also) and I feel like he is a really "high-quality" person also in a lot of ways. Then today I was reading about how your guy wouldnt have sex.. this guy was like that at the beginning for a few months. it took maybe 6 weeks to even kiss each other. then there was maybe a 3 month period that was pretty solid sex-wise, then he just stopped being able to. when i questioned him about it, he said "it turns out, i can only either be sensitive/open, or sexual, but not both at the same time, and obviously this is a huge problem as i have let you in and now i can't be physical...." BTW, it happened with his ex also. i would imagine that if he was older, (were 31) he would probably have shut off entirely. if i ever get over this, i need to at least be friends with him, to see what happens. faithopelove --- so strange what is with all these people using the term "weird place". he said that all the time. or "dark place" sometimes. does your guy have a job/leave the house/have a social life? with D there were a couple times when he came over when he wanted sex and he was still into me at that point, but afterwards he had to leave, and it kinda brings back how he said he can either be sexual or emotionally intimate, i don't even think he felt comfortable viewing me both ways. so had to flee after. i read some thing about "madonna and the whore syndrome" with avoidants and also narcissists, coming down to either you are the madonna or the "whore", but the madonna is their mother figure, and after awhile when you cross into that role it feels almost incestual to them and they cant be sexual anymore, unless you cross back and they deactivate from the connection. who knows if this applies to any of these cases. i am very curious about the fact that my guy hasnt gotten back on dating apps. that was the only place he met women. but also, he told me he distrusts women, so he probably is comfortable just not having any in his life right now. enough time has gone by NC (3 weeks) that i could reach out, i would just need to think long and hard about how to word this. i also had the insane idea to mail him a package ("accidentally") from Amazon that he would need to contact me about because this used to happen all the time since i used to get stuff mailed there and when i would order things on my phone it sometimes auto-sent there. and just see if he contacts me. hahaha. he probably wouldnt even know what to do. he told me he never reaches out after a breakup even if he greatly misses the person bc he cant deal w the vulnerability and that his entire life was a "fear and shame spiral". yet, he has this high powered job at an ad firm. anyway........... oh, did i mention he still shares his location with me on iphone? i almost wish i didnt have it. i thought about accidentally "running into" him, but he doesnt really go anywhere but work and home, so its almost worthless lol. sorry thats so long. hope you guys were in the mood for a book! Hey, Kibbins....our exes sound a lot alike! Except mine always wants the sex, but like you said, maybe he can’t handle both. He did a pretty good job at handling both for 6 months before distancing, breaking up with me and completely shutting down emotionally. I think sex with me still feels safe to him bc he can separate the physical from the emotional. Of course, it’s not ok with me and not fulfilling to have physical without emotional. I’ve been doing it “his way” the detached way for 12 months now and it isn’t at all fulfilling to me. I know he’s not happier this way either but he feels safer and I think that matters to him more than anything. He has said this summer that he didn’t mean to be tough but has a hard time trusting. I can vouch for that! I don’t at all like this distant, cold relationship and I now think this is the real him and that loving, wonderfully supportive guy can’t be that way for long without feeling engulfed. He’s very much an introvert and is glad to sit home and be a hermit. He goes out with friends or co-workers about once every few months- and he never goes further than a few miles from his house. He’s extremely responsible to his obligations as both dad and in his leadership position at work. He seems to handle those duties/responsibilities, but cannot handle the intimacy of a successful personal life. I kept seeing him casually and physically in hopes of rekindling what we had but I realize in doing so he never had to experience the full loss of me in our break. I have probably, more than anything, been enabling him to be a dysfunctional avoidant. Do you think you will reestablish contact? I feel I’m the one overinvesting and since he’s not showing care or concern than I should create that space and see if he steps up. I’m tired of this pattern and ready to draw my line in the sand that we are either working on us or we want different things and I’ll move on. He said recently he knows he’s “not right” so he understands if I move on. Always seemingly unworthy, hopeless and defeated. He may just say “fine, leave,” but I need some closure to this...and deserve someone who’s there for me. You deserve that, too. Amazon Lol |
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Post by faithopelove on Dec 13, 2018 2:15:32 GMT
I wonder is it possible for a DA to feel safe and loved at the same time? And in the choosing between the two, will they always choose safety?
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Post by alexandra on Dec 13, 2018 2:21:50 GMT
I wonder is it possible for a DA to feel safe and loved at the same time? And in the choosing between the two, will they always choose safety?
Depends if they want to heal/change, and where they are in the process.
Also depends on the type of love (if it's love with limited intimacy, sure).
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Post by mrob on Dec 13, 2018 5:48:12 GMT
Contacting him would make him disrespect me more than he already does. That's how these people work. Reaching out is needing them and need is pathetic. I disagree. Treating yourself as a sovereign individual actually promotes respect. You’ve just got to be prepared for the answer you don’t want to hear. |
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Post by sissyk on Dec 13, 2018 13:38:28 GMT
sissyk I was reading your thread last night and I related to a lot of parts.. this guy also told me he was "bad at relationships" from the start but there was a period when he was really trying. The most vulnerable this guy ever got with me was in late September when he wrote something like: "When we were just friends I think I felt safer because I didn't have to worry about you not liking me and it felt more like we were equals. But obviously I have stronger feelings for you than just friends. I want to be able to give you what you need emotionally because so much about us being together makes sense to me. I want to be someone you turn to in times for support and be someone that you feel safe with." After THAT, things slowly unraveled. He distanced, I had to reach out a couple times in times of not talking, he said it made more sense for him to be alone because he didn't want to feel like he was hurting people. I asked if he was happier alone and he said probably not but that he didn't feel like he was hurting anyone. He also said he was depressed, needed to "learn how to be a partner" (but he stopped going to his therapist, so, obviously didn't care that much), stopped bothering inviting me around his friends altogether, took back his offer to see a therapist with me, etc etc. I'm really trying to investigate my part in this- like I wrote above I did think maybe it was because I am emotionally unavailable which I feel emotionally numb towards other people right now as I still have major feelings for this guy.., but actually we did have such a great connection humor wise and just in general that was really rare for me (he commented on it also) and I feel like he is a really "high-quality" person also in a lot of ways. Then today I was reading about how your guy wouldnt have sex.. this guy was like that at the beginning for a few months. it took maybe 6 weeks to even kiss each other. then there was maybe a 3 month period that was pretty solid sex-wise, then he just stopped being able to. when i questioned him about it, he said "it turns out, i can only either be sensitive/open, or sexual, but not both at the same time, and obviously this is a huge problem as i have let you in and now i can't be physical...." BTW, it happened with his ex also. i would imagine that if he was older, (were 31) he would probably have shut off entirely. if i ever get over this, i need to at least be friends with him, to see what happens. faithopelove --- so strange what is with all these people using the term "weird place". he said that all the time. or "dark place" sometimes. does your guy have a job/leave the house/have a social life? with D there were a couple times when he came over when he wanted sex and he was still into me at that point, but afterwards he had to leave, and it kinda brings back how he said he can either be sexual or emotionally intimate, i don't even think he felt comfortable viewing me both ways. so had to flee after. i read some thing about "madonna and the whore syndrome" with avoidants and also narcissists, coming down to either you are the madonna or the "whore", but the madonna is their mother figure, and after awhile when you cross into that role it feels almost incestual to them and they cant be sexual anymore, unless you cross back and they deactivate from the connection. who knows if this applies to any of these cases. i am very curious about the fact that my guy hasnt gotten back on dating apps. that was the only place he met women. but also, he told me he distrusts women, so he probably is comfortable just not having any in his life right now. enough time has gone by NC (3 weeks) that i could reach out, i would just need to think long and hard about how to word this. i also had the insane idea to mail him a package ("accidentally") from Amazon that he would need to contact me about because this used to happen all the time since i used to get stuff mailed there and when i would order things on my phone it sometimes auto-sent there. and just see if he contacts me. hahaha. he probably wouldnt even know what to do. he told me he never reaches out after a breakup even if he greatly misses the person bc he cant deal w the vulnerability and that his entire life was a "fear and shame spiral". yet, he has this high powered job at an ad firm. anyway........... oh, did i mention he still shares his location with me on iphone? i almost wish i didnt have it. i thought about accidentally "running into" him, but he doesnt really go anywhere but work and home, so its almost worthless lol. sorry thats so long. hope you guys were in the mood for a book! Hey kibbins, you read my whole novel so I am happy to read your book!  Here is what helped me....Forget about his rules, his psyche, the tea leaves of his latest text. Pull the camera back. What do you want here? What are you willing to accept and not accept? I think we tend to play defense with these DA/FA types...rather than going on offense. (I hear DAs groaning at my phrasing but you get what I mean) After mulling and mulling, I decided I WOULD be happy with being just friends forever. This would preserve the good stuff in our connection but acknowledge the fact that being in a real relationship with him would be in some ways agony as he is so bad at communicating and very closed off in certain ways--and I'm not sure he even wants to ever be that close to anyone or me in particular. I also want a relationship partner to be THRILLED to be with me even when things get a little messy and he is too self protecting to show his hand like that or feel it. Maybe write an email that is 100 percent direct but don't send it for a while. Put your name in the To line so you are not tempted and make the subject line for now DO NOT SEND. What did you value about him and your time together? In a very gentle but direct way what didn't work? Is there an honest and desirable win win in the future like being friends IF YOU WANT THAT that you both might value? Just be straight but kindly. In a few weeks or whenever you feel you can do fine without him, you could consider sending. I sent a direct text along these lines and as you read, didn't hear and didn't hear. He eventually texted saying we should get together in the New Year. We will see if he follows through. It was worth the risk as I felt I was being direct and true to myself. If he fled that was good evidence. I cried and cried when he didn't respond for a week. I kept playing Frank Sinatra's My Way to make me feel better about what I had done. It is fine if you are sad and obsessed right now. You had a real connection because you are a loving caring person. Part of the draw of my DA was I was moved by his lonely life and his regret at not getting married, having kids etc. That was compassion and while I know it was not my job to fix or rescue, I felt it because I am a empathetic person. I claim that as a good quality as you should. Feel the sad feelings and they pass and have less power--don't worry if you should or shouldn't be on a timetable. It is a gift we have a wide range of emotions and can feel deeply. Also--frankly--I am an aged crone (in my 50s) with almost grown kids from a first marriage. If you are in your 30s, do you want a life partner for the next few decades? To share a mortgage and have kids with and go to funerals of loved ones? You may want to look for a life partner who is sturdier to handle the big stuff ahead. |
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Here is what helped me....Forget about his rules, his psyche, the tea leaves of his latest text. Pull the camera back. What do you want here? What are you willing to accept and not accept?