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Post by unluckyinlove on Jan 30, 2019 4:17:17 GMT
..and I maintain that this is the difference between Dismissive and Fearful avoidants. High versus low self esteem. I’ve wondered if that was the major difference as well. I’ve seen various posts from people trying to determine the difference and it doesn’t seem to be a clear consensus. I decided to identify my ex as FA because of his terribly low self esteem. He does seem to have DA qualities too though. He doesn’t seem to have the anxiety that the FA has but I decided he just hides it well....and I think he masks it as anger. I just kinda decided that since BOTH FA/DA fall under avoidant, then they are going to be very similar. |
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Post by mrob on Jan 30, 2019 4:48:39 GMT
..and I maintain that this is the difference between Dismissive and Fearful avoidants. High versus low self esteem. He’s DA though and feels unworthy of love and attention. Is it possible to have healthy self-esteem and believe that no cares about you or loves you? Could it be more of a trust that prevents the believing rather than low self-esteem? I don’t think it’s possible to have high self esteem and feel intrinsically unloveable. No. I also think that people are quick to label others as Dismissive without looking past the projection, because their experience is of being dismissed. Most people are deeply hurt by the way avoidants of both types act, and most avoidants are in full flight from this stuff ourselves! I think the best reference is the book. Not the boards. We’re a bunch of amateurs feeling our way through with our own rubbish. The book outlines the differences well. |
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Post by annieb on Jan 30, 2019 16:55:15 GMT
..and I maintain that this is the difference between Dismissive and Fearful avoidants. High versus low self esteem. He’s DA though and feels unworthy of love and attention. Is it possible to have healthy self-esteem and believe that no cares about you or loves you? Could it be more of a trust that prevents the believing rather than low self-esteem? I don't think DAs have healthy self-esteem. I think they have managed to construct something that resembles high self esteem, but I don't believe it is healthy real self esteem. I think healthy self esteem is out of reach for both FAs and DAs. However, I think that both have a chance working on it, I really hope so, anyway. |
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Post by gummydrop on Jan 30, 2019 19:41:07 GMT
Avoidants don't have high self-esteem, they just fake it well. Outwardly they can appear confident, successful, even gregarious with many friends. Unfortunately, inside they are suffering: hyper-sensitive to any form of criticism, feel unseen as though they can't be their real self, and most of their friendships are just shallow acquaintances.
There's a reason it's called insecure attachment.
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Post by epicgum on Jan 30, 2019 20:19:05 GMT
Avoidants don't have high self-esteem, they just fake it well. Outwardly they can appear confident, successful, even gregarious with many friends. Unfortunately, inside they are suffering: hyper-sensitive to any form of criticism, feel unseen as though they can't be their real self, and most of their friendships are just shallow acquaintances. There's a reason it's called insecure attachment. Yes I can relate to that. However, how to distinguish Fa from DA? |
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 30, 2019 22:03:18 GMT
He’s DA though and feels unworthy of love and attention. Is it possible to have healthy self-esteem and believe that no cares about you or loves you? Could it be more of a trust that prevents the believing rather than low self-esteem? I don’t think it’s possible to have high self esteem and feel intrinsically unloveable. No. I also think that people are quick to label others as Dismissive without looking past the projection, because their experience is of being dismissed. Most people are deeply hurt by the way avoidants of both types act, and most avoidants are in full flight from this stuff ourselves! I think the best reference is the book. Not the boards. We’re a bunch of amateurs feeling our way through with our own rubbish. The book outlines the differences well. Plus, it’s all a spectrum and not clear cut lines. I do think my ex is dismissive based on all the research I’ve found. It seems a lot of his fear is rooted in mistrust and the inability to give and receive love. |
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 30, 2019 22:05:48 GMT
Avoidants don't have high self-esteem, they just fake it well. Outwardly they can appear confident, successful, even gregarious with many friends. Unfortunately, inside they are suffering: hyper-sensitive to any form of criticism, feel unseen as though they can't be their real self, and most of their friendships are just shallow acquaintances. There's a reason it's called insecure attachment. Yes I can relate to that. However, how to distinguish Fa from DA? DA shut down, very hard time trusting, a lot of doubts- believe they can only rely on themselves and are better off alone. FA are more open to relationships and seeking a partner- then run. |
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 30, 2019 22:07:37 GMT
He’s DA though and feels unworthy of love and attention. Is it possible to have healthy self-esteem and believe that no cares about you or loves you? Could it be more of a trust that prevents the believing rather than low self-esteem? I don't think DAs have healthy self-esteem. I think they have managed to construct something that resembles high self esteem, but I don't believe it is healthy real self esteem. I think healthy self esteem is out of reach for both FAs and DAs. However, I think that both have a chance working on it, I really hope so, anyway. I agree! |
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 30, 2019 22:08:43 GMT
..and I maintain that this is the difference between Dismissive and Fearful avoidants. High versus low self esteem. I’ve wondered if that was the major difference as well. I’ve seen various posts from people trying to determine the difference and it doesn’t seem to be a clear consensus. I decided to identify my ex as FA because of his terribly low self esteem. He does seem to have DA qualities too though. He doesn’t seem to have the anxiety that the FA has but I decided he just hides it well....and I think he masks it as anger. I just kinda decided that since BOTH FA/DA fall under avoidant, then they are going to be very similar. I took the quiz for my ex and he came up as a strong DA. I think my answers were accurate, or close enough |
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 30, 2019 22:22:13 GMT
..and I maintain that this is the difference between Dismissive and Fearful avoidants. High versus low self esteem. I just posted this on a new thread. Explores the differences between DA and FA. Great channel |
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Post by leavethelighton on Jan 31, 2019 1:09:57 GMT
An interesting media connection-- this reminds me of a scene from the movie I was watching last night, "Perks of Being a Wallflower."
The teen male protagonist asks his teacher why some people choose to date someone who is ultimately bad for them, who doesn't treat them well. The teacher responds that "we accept the love we think we deserve."
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 31, 2019 3:06:26 GMT
..and I maintain that this is the difference between Dismissive and Fearful avoidants. High versus low self esteem. I’ve wondered if that was the major difference as well. I’ve seen various posts from people trying to determine the difference and it doesn’t seem to be a clear consensus. I decided to identify my ex as FA because of his terribly low self esteem. He does seem to have DA qualities too though. He doesn’t seem to have the anxiety that the FA has but I decided he just hides it well....and I think he masks it as anger. I just kinda decided that since BOTH FA/DA fall under avoidant, then they are going to be very similar. I think they are similar but the DA doesn’t have that anxiety or approachability piece. Very distant and closed off and come across as very unfeeling and cold. More consistent than FA. Reluctant to let anyone in. Too great of a risk. My DA let me in and then later changed his mind and still unwilling to trust. |
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Post by unluckyinlove on Jan 31, 2019 4:08:20 GMT
[/quote]I think they are similar but the DA doesn’t have that anxiety or approachability piece. Very distant and closed off and come across as very unfeeling and cold. More consistent than FA. Reluctant to let anyone in. Too great of a risk. My DA let me in and then later changed his mind and still unwilling to trust. [/quote]
Yeah my avoidant ex is way too emotional (mainly angry). He’s def FA. The biggest thing that made me question FA vs DA is that they say FA is formed by children who often have to step into a caretaker role of sorts. They aren’t allowed to have their emotions tended to because they are expected to tend to others’ emotional needs. So in adult life when they have someone who wants to engage emotionally, they don’t know how to process and accept that. It makes them uncomfortable and untrusting.
Well my ex had never described anything that made me think he had to be in a caretaker role. BUT the more I thought about it, when we first met, he was offering me advice about a dating situation I was in at the time where I wasn’t happy. He was already soothing and caring for me...which was part of my appeal toward him. Also I noticed often that when we disagreed, he would take on a condescending “fatherly” type tone (I hated that!). Also his ex wife was 15 years his junior...so yeah I’m sure he was a bit “fatherly” with her. He didn’t share that much about his childhood, but I am starting to believe that there is a huge probability that there indeed was some type of “fatherly” role or emotional caretaker role that he had to assume in childhood.
It’s honestly all so fascinating to me now that I’ve discovered attachment styles. Everything suddenly makes so much sense. Not only with him, but myself and also past boyfriends. I’m more optimistic than ever before about the next relationship being healthy. Awareness is such a huge leap! I just started reading Attached.
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Post by happyidiot on Jan 31, 2019 4:57:19 GMT
..and I maintain that this is the difference between Dismissive and Fearful avoidants. High versus low self esteem. He’s DA though and feels unworthy of love and attention. Is it possible to have healthy self-esteem and believe that no cares about you or loves you? Could it be more of a trust that prevents the believing rather than low self-esteem? Depends on what you mean by that. I think someone can have what appears to be a high self-regard (this is not necessarily the same as a "healthy" self-esteem) and at the same time have a low regard for others (or humanity in general) so think that other people don't really care for or love you and you can't rely on anyone but yourself. But then again, there is an interesting debate as to whether DA is even a maladaptation or not. I have had a number of DAs tell me they don't think being DA is inherently unhealthy or maladaptive and that it's just society that says it's best to have deep relationships and attachments. They say what's wrong with it provided the DA feels fine and also isn't hurting anyone else? |
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Post by happyidiot on Jan 31, 2019 5:00:23 GMT
I think the best reference is the book. Not the boards. We’re a bunch of amateurs feeling our way through with our own rubbish. The book outlines the differences well. Yes and even Jeb's blog and some other online resources. The only thing I really disagree with is the idea that there are very few FAs, which I've outlined in detail in other threads. |
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