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Post by mrob on Jan 31, 2019 5:05:50 GMT
Sorry, edited because we posted at the same time.
That last paragraph two posts before hits the nail on the head. And yes, I agree, that although FAs may be in the minority (and I’m sure the world is grateful for that) there are more than previously thought.
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 31, 2019 6:36:39 GMT
He’s DA though and feels unworthy of love and attention. Is it possible to have healthy self-esteem and believe that no cares about you or loves you? Could it be more of a trust that prevents the believing rather than low self-esteem? Depends on what you mean by that. I think someone can have what appears to be a high self-regard (this is not necessarily the same as a "healthy" self-esteem) and at the same time have a low regard for others (or humanity in general) so think that other people don't really care for or love you and you can't rely on anyone but yourself. But then again, there is an interesting debate as to whether DA is even a maladaptation or not. I have had a number of DAs tell me they don't think being DA is inherently unhealthy or maladaptive and that it's just society that says it's best to have deep relationships and attachments. They say what's wrong with it provided the DA feels fine and also isn't hurting anyone else? Yes, my therapist had told me that too and I had never considered that a person could have a good self-image but poor self-esteem. She thought that was the case with me and once I thought about it, I knew she was right. Because I had never separated the two, I used to think of myself as having healthy self-esteem. |
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 31, 2019 6:42:19 GMT
I think they are similar but the DA doesn’t have that anxiety or approachability piece. Very distant and closed off and come across as very unfeeling and cold. More consistent than FA. Reluctant to let anyone in. Too great of a risk. My DA let me in and then later changed his mind and still unwilling to trust. [/quote] Yeah my avoidant ex is way too emotional (mainly angry). He’s def FA. The biggest thing that made me question FA vs DA is that they say FA is formed by children who often have to step into a caretaker role of sorts. They aren’t allowed to have their emotions tended to because they are expected to tend to others’ emotional needs. So in adult life when they have someone who wants to engage emotionally, they don’t know how to process and accept that. It makes them uncomfortable and untrusting. Well my ex had never described anything that made me think he had to be in a caretaker role. BUT the more I thought about it, when we first met, he was offering me advice about a dating situation I was in at the time where I wasn’t happy. He was already soothing and caring for me...which was part of my appeal toward him. Also I noticed often that when we disagreed, he would take on a condescending “fatherly” type tone (I hated that!). Also his ex wife was 15 years his junior...so yeah I’m sure he was a bit “fatherly” with her. He didn’t share that much about his childhood, but I am starting to believe that there is a huge probability that there indeed was some type of “fatherly” role or emotional caretaker role that he had to assume in childhood. It’s honestly all so fascinating to me now that I’ve discovered attachment styles. Everything suddenly makes so much sense. Not only with him, but myself and also past boyfriends. I’m more optimistic than ever before about the next relationship being healthy. Awareness is such a huge leap! I just started reading Attached.[/quote] @unluckyinlove Yes, and the DA’s are huge on boundaries for themselves and not crossing others’. Even when we were in relationship my ex would ask if it was ok if he gave me advice. Always extremely respectful, which I appreciated, but I came to see in time that his deference to me was more than just respect. It was also a way of keeping a safe emotional distance and space between us. |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 31, 2019 19:51:05 GMT
But then again, there is an interesting debate as to whether DA is even a maladaptation or not. I have had a number of DAs tell me they don't think being DA is inherently unhealthy or maladaptive and that it's just society that says it's best to have deep relationships and attachments. They say what's wrong with it provided the DA feels fine and also isn't hurting anyone else? Totally agree. These attachment styles are only "maladaptive" if they're causing difficulty in relationships and making the person unhappy because they can't live the life they want. It's possible all that is so suppressed that they don't know they're unhappy, but that's not an onlooker's decision to make. |
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Post by annieb on Nov 26, 2019 16:52:15 GMT
..and I maintain that this is the difference between Dismissive and Fearful avoidants. High versus low self esteem. He’s DA though and feels unworthy of love and attention. Is it possible to have healthy self-esteem and believe that no cares about you or loves you? Could it be more of a trust that prevents the believing rather than low self-esteem? I think in the case of DA, the high self esteem is a mask, DA is basically overlapping with Narcissist. I think that's been discussed here before. In case of FA the low self esteem is also a mask. In my case deep down I actually do love myself, but I keep it covered. When I am in therapy I am able to access that self love. |
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Post by annieb on Nov 26, 2019 16:56:12 GMT
..and I maintain that this is the difference between Dismissive and Fearful avoidants. High versus low self esteem. Agreed, but in both cases it is a mask. In my experience as a FA, I actually deep down have self love and I able to discover it, when I am in therapy. But when I am not actively working on it, the defense mechanism takes over. In my opinion DA is Narcissism/ Codependency and FA is Inverse Narcissism/ Codependency. |
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 26, 2019 21:51:39 GMT
..and I maintain that this is the difference between Dismissive and Fearful avoidants. High versus low self esteem. Agreed, but in both cases it is a mask. In my experience as a FA, I actually deep down have self love and I able to discover it, when I am in therapy. But when I am not actively working on it, the defense mechanism takes over. In my opinion DA is Narcissism/ Codependency and FA is Inverse Narcissism/ Codependency. - Co-dependency doesn’t make any sense to me for a highly independent DA who pushes away intimacy and relationships. Also- the shutting down and focusing on oneself may feel narcissistic when on the receiving end of such a partner, but narcissism spans across attachment styles, and in the absence of gaslighting and other mind games, narcissism cannot be presumed. |
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Post by annieb on Nov 26, 2019 22:28:40 GMT
Agreed, but in both cases it is a mask. In my experience as a FA, I actually deep down have self love and I able to discover it, when I am in therapy. But when I am not actively working on it, the defense mechanism takes over. In my opinion DA is Narcissism/ Codependency and FA is Inverse Narcissism/ Codependency. - Co-dependency doesn’t make any sense to me for a highly independent DA who pushes away intimacy and relationships. Also- the shutting down and focusing on oneself may feel narcissistic when on the receiving end of such a partner, but narcissism spans across attachment styles, and in the absence of gaslighting and other mind games, narcissism cannot be presumed. Co dependency is in essence other esteem - so when a DA pushes away intimacy, they reject the part where they are in any way affected by the "other". While not obvious obsessive and hanging on, katching on, it's still reactive. Narcissism is codependency as in a narcissist projects his her feelings as they are coming from the outside. |
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