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Post by kathy94 on Dec 18, 2018 6:55:29 GMT
I’m having trouble wrapping my brain around this. In the past when my ex left I assumed he left because he thought I was crazy. That I was annoying. That he just didn’t like me and I just kept chasing him despite his clear message that I wasn’t it for him. What I came to learn- as I’ve said so many times- is I hurt him. I couldn’t see that at all when we were young. As we got older I started to see that he must have had pain in his life that he took out on me but never in my wildest dreams did I ever think it would have actually been pain I caused him that he was taking out on me! Now here I am, as always it seems reflecting back on our recent encounter (months ago, but recent by our standards) and again- my brain can not accept that I hurt him. Not because I think he can’t be hurt but because I don’t think I have the capability- that I am not important enough to him to cause him emotional pain. What is that?!? I still think that I am just a Nuisance! It’s not that I don’t think I affected him- I clearly did. I know I made him mad and I triggered him. But to say to myself that at this time in our lives I hurt him- my brain immediately stops and asks “who do you think you are? You’re not important enough for that” It’s so strange. Anyone have thoughts on this? I can realate. I can’t decide if my FA is hurt by me or just doesn’t care about me and doesn’t want to deal with me. It’s the fact he has blantantly ignored me for two weeks and I just think you don’t do that unless someone hurt you? Are you an AP or FA? What about your ex? |
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 18, 2018 8:02:10 GMT
I’m having trouble wrapping my brain around this. In the past when my ex left I assumed he left because he thought I was crazy. That I was annoying. That he just didn’t like me and I just kept chasing him despite his clear message that I wasn’t it for him. What I came to learn- as I’ve said so many times- is I hurt him. I couldn’t see that at all when we were young. As we got older I started to see that he must have had pain in his life that he took out on me but never in my wildest dreams did I ever think it would have actually been pain I caused him that he was taking out on me! Now here I am, as always it seems reflecting back on our recent encounter (months ago, but recent by our standards) and again- my brain can not accept that I hurt him. Not because I think he can’t be hurt but because I don’t think I have the capability- that I am not important enough to him to cause him emotional pain. What is that?!? I still think that I am just a Nuisance! It’s not that I don’t think I affected him- I clearly did. I know I made him mad and I triggered him. But to say to myself that at this time in our lives I hurt him- my brain immediately stops and asks “who do you think you are? You’re not important enough for that” It’s so strange. Anyone have thoughts on this? I can...it is only recently that I was able to consider that my actions, behaviors and words at times did not convey the care and love I thought they did and instead were hurtful to B. I recently apologized to him (note, he never said flat out I hurt him, I came to this awareness on my own) for any word, behavior or action that was hurtful, disrespectful, uncaring, unloving towards him. Obviously we do the best with what we know at the time and when we know better, we do better. Thank you for sharing. |
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Post by faithopelove on Dec 18, 2018 12:03:15 GMT
I’m having trouble wrapping my brain around this. In the past when my ex left I assumed he left because he thought I was crazy. That I was annoying. That he just didn’t like me and I just kept chasing him despite his clear message that I wasn’t it for him. What I came to learn- as I’ve said so many times- is I hurt him. I couldn’t see that at all when we were young. As we got older I started to see that he must have had pain in his life that he took out on me but never in my wildest dreams did I ever think it would have actually been pain I caused him that he was taking out on me! Now here I am, as always it seems reflecting back on our recent encounter (months ago, but recent by our standards) and again- my brain can not accept that I hurt him. Not because I think he can’t be hurt but because I don’t think I have the capability- that I am not important enough to him to cause him emotional pain. What is that?!? I still think that I am just a Nuisance! It’s not that I don’t think I affected him- I clearly did. I know I made him mad and I triggered him. But to say to myself that at this time in our lives I hurt him- my brain immediately stops and asks “who do you think you are? You’re not important enough for that” It’s so strange. Anyone have thoughts on this? I can realate. I can’t decide if my FA is hurt by me or just doesn’t care about me and doesn’t want to deal with me. It’s the fact he has blantantly ignored me for two weeks and I just think you don’t do that unless someone hurt you? Are you an AP or FA? What about your ex? Yes, my ex DA has told me he’s not normal and has a hard time trusting. I hurt him when we were together and he hurt me with his dismissive ways - I hurt his trust and belief in us and now he dealt with that hurt by disconnecting. Normally our minor conflicts wouldn’t have affected a person so greatly, but to a DA, it was all it took to erect those hard, stone walls in defense. I hurt him, but the crime didn’t fit the punishment and after a year of being there for him with no conflicts, he still won’t open his heart to us. |
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Post by mrob on Dec 18, 2018 15:55:10 GMT
That’s really interesting. I have the same thing in relationships, and was probably how I got smaller and smaller in my marriage. My ex-wife was just resentful because she had to do more and more, as I shrank away. I just didn’t believe I was significant.
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Post by kathy94 on Dec 18, 2018 16:25:47 GMT
That’s really interesting. I have the same thing in relationships, and was probably how I got smaller and smaller in my marriage. My ex-wife was just resentful because she had to do more and more, as I shrank away. I just didn’t believe I was significant. It’s so fascinating hearing things from an FAs perspective. it’s crazy you’d think you’re not significant. you’re all we ever think about .. |
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Post by kathy94 on Dec 18, 2018 16:27:23 GMT
kathy94 I don’t know what I am. I fluctuate. I test FA in past relationships, DA to my parents and siblings, secure in my marriage. I definitely have both anxious and avoidant tendencies. I’m kind of over trying to classify myself as I don’t know that it matters. My ex? I don’t know what he is either. I’ve called him DA but he could be FA. Again I don’t think it matters and I can’t analyze him- I don’t want to anymore. Do you see that I am not trying to answer if he cares about me. I am not asking IF he was hurt or what that means. I am asking why my brain won’t accept that I can be significant to someone. I’m looking at the way my own thoughts are twisted against me. I am trying to identify the thoughts and find new ones to replace them with that are more real and benefit me. I know these thoughts are lies. It just bothers me that I still can’t shake them. I actually think your stuff might be triggering that line of though in me a little. That’s ok, it’s good actually- it just means it’s something I still need to work through. It’s just crazy hearing you guys don’t think you’re significant? My FA guy is all I think about. Crazy to think that he might think I don’t care. Do FAs just not Belive we care about them? |
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 18, 2018 17:42:58 GMT
That’s really interesting. I have the same thing in relationships, and was probably how I got smaller and smaller in my marriage. My ex-wife was just resentful because she had to do more and more, as I shrank away. I just didn’t believe I was significant. Thank you for sharing this mrob. Was there something that could have been done (or not done) to help you believe you were important? |
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Post by anapol on Dec 19, 2018 1:15:45 GMT
That’s really interesting. I have the same thing in relationships, and was probably how I got smaller and smaller in my marriage. My ex-wife was just resentful because she had to do more and more, as I shrank away. I just didn’t believe I was significant. It’s so fascinating hearing things from an FAs perspective. it’s crazy you’d think you’re not significant. you’re all we ever think about .. Truer words have never been spoken! |
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Post by mrob on Dec 19, 2018 2:00:06 GMT
It’s not that you don’t care, it’s that I’m insignificant. Like all this, it’s an inside job. I believe it’s the low self esteem part of the F in FA that does it.
I’ve gone along in situations for so long and had such a hard time mustering the courage to stand up for myself, and when I have, I’m labelled as a commitment phobe! And then I doubt myself afterwards. That’s the cycle, and how, I believe, an FA will come back again, then be triggered and run, again and again until everyone is sick to death of the dance. That’s why, when I read the “Bad Boyfriends” book, it was obvious where I fitted. The damage caused, and the hopeless state I find myself in if I don’t change.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 19, 2018 2:10:19 GMT
The more anxious someone is, attachment-style speaking, the worse their view of themselves/self-esteem/identity. That's a big part of what causes the anxiety. So anyone on that side of things is going to feel anxious and less-than a lot of the time. APs can get lost in that narrative that their partners don't care as much, but to that end, AP and FA are on the same side of the coin. It's just FA can also deactivate too, depending on which of their fears is triggered, whereas AP usually won't. Everyone still has insecurities and sensitive feelings that can be easily hurt, even if they don't show it obviously, because that's part of the attachment issues. It's not an us-versus-them thing.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 19, 2018 2:18:10 GMT
It’s not that you don’t care, it’s that I’m insignificant. Like all this, it’s an inside job. I believe it’s the low self esteem part of the F in FA that does it. I’ve gone along in situations for so long and had such a hard time mustering the courage to stand up for myself, and when I have, I’m labelled as a commitment phobe! And then I doubt myself afterwards. That’s the cycle, and how, I believe, an FA will come back again, then be triggered and run, again and again until everyone is sick to death of the dance. That’s why, when I read the “Bad Boyfriends” book, it was obvious where I fitted. The damage caused, and the hopeless state I find myself in if I don’t change. Interesting mrob...so all the cheerleading, the caping, the encouraging from a person with AP...does it make you feel worse in the end? Does it feel like pressure? Does it feel like the other person doesn't really see you? Just trying to get a better perspective on your experience of things. |
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Post by mrob on Dec 19, 2018 2:31:23 GMT
It’s not that you don’t care, it’s that I’m insignificant. Like all this, it’s an inside job. I believe it’s the low self esteem part of the F in FA that does it. I’ve gone along in situations for so long and had such a hard time mustering the courage to stand up for myself, and when I have, I’m labelled as a commitment phobe! And then I doubt myself afterwards. That’s the cycle, and how, I believe, an FA will come back again, then be triggered and run, again and again until everyone is sick to death of the dance. That’s why, when I read the “Bad Boyfriends” book, it was obvious where I fitted. The damage caused, and the hopeless state I find myself in if I don’t change. Interesting mrob...so all the cheerleading, the caping, the encouraging from a person with AP...does it make you feel worse in the end? Does it feel like pressure? Does it feel like the other person doesn't really see you? Just trying to get a better perspective on your experience of things. The first few things, yes. I don’t cope well with overt praise or encouragement. I’ve had to learn how to take a compliment. It’s not that I feel they don’t see me. I’m not comfortable with everything being seen to the extent of an AP. That, more often than not is seen as holding back. |
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 19, 2018 3:33:07 GMT
Interesting mrob...so all the cheerleading, the caping, the encouraging from a person with AP...does it make you feel worse in the end? Does it feel like pressure? Does it feel like the other person doesn't really see you? Just trying to get a better perspective on your experience of things. The first few things, yes. I don’t cope well with overt praise or encouragement. I’ve had to learn how to take a compliment. It’s not that I feel they don’t see me. I’m not comfortable with everything being seen to the extent of an AP. That, more often than not is seen as holding back. I really appreciate you sharing. When you say "That, more often than not is seen as holding back" could you clarify for me who is thinking the other person is holding back(is that you or the other person's perspective of you)..and what is it that is perceived as being held back. I don't want to make any assumptions since it is not quite clear to me. |
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Post by mrob on Dec 19, 2018 7:21:52 GMT
The first few things, yes. I don’t cope well with overt praise or encouragement. I’ve had to learn how to take a compliment. It’s not that I feel they don’t see me. I’m not comfortable with everything being seen to the extent of an AP. That, more often than not is seen as holding back. I really appreciate you sharing. When you say "That, more often than not is seen as holding back" could you clarify for me who is thinking the other person is holding back(is that you or the other person's perspective of you)..and what is it that is perceived as being held back. I don't want to make any assumptions since it is not quite clear to me. For example, in the early stages, I might forget to tell her of an important event that has happened in the day, because I don’t even think of it. Then it’ll come out in casual conversation and she’ll say “Why didn’t you tell me that? I share all my important things with you”. It hadn’t crossed my mind, which becomes extended to her saying she mustn’t be important in my life, to her saying that I’m holding back. So, now, I have to tell her everything, and I feel no sense of personal sovereignty, and end up feeling engulfed. This is pretty fresh, even though I’ve been able to stop that absolute terror of total engulfment. |
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 19, 2018 11:49:19 GMT
I really appreciate you sharing. When you say "That, more often than not is seen as holding back" could you clarify for me who is thinking the other person is holding back(is that you or the other person's perspective of you)..and what is it that is perceived as being held back. I don't want to make any assumptions since it is not quite clear to me. For example, in the early stages, I might forget to tell her of an important event that has happened in the day, because I don’t even think of it. Then it’ll come out in casual conversation and she’ll say “Why didn’t you tell me that? I share all my important things with you”. It hadn’t crossed my mind, which becomes extended to her saying she mustn’t be important in my life, to her saying that I’m holding back. So, now, I have to tell her everything, and I feel no sense of personal sovereignty, and end up feeling engulfed. This is pretty fresh, even though I’ve been able to stop that absolute terror of total engulfment. Oh wow...I understand a desire to know about events etc..but to tie that to her feeling not important to you...that is her own insecurity. I am sorry mrob...that is tough and I can understand why that feel very invasive/engulfing. Do you really have to tell her everything or is that your attempt to over correct the forgetting to tell her about the events? You don't have to answer that if you don't want to, just something that you can mull over. Finding balance between autonomy and closeness can challenging....I know I struggle with it too. |
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