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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 3:39:00 GMT
Hi, This is my first post.
I am a DA female, in a relationship with a FA heavy on the anxious, or perhaps just anxious with some protest behavior that looks avoidant. I don't look into that too much because I can't guess what is in his head and don't care to try. I do see the anxious part and try to provide reassurance. To a point. I won't over do the soothing because I think he needs to be able to take care of that reasonably well. He's an adult and I want to be supportive and understanding without being overly burdened by it all.
I'm conflicted and hoping to hear from other dismissive avoidants.
I have a difficult time with the intensity of the emotion in the relationship.
I mean the intensity that seems to stem from my boyfriends abandonment fear. How he responds to my need for my own space and time, especially after a conflict.
I'm a lot more emotionally available than in the past, and don't believe I present a huge abandonment risk with my attachment style. I am able to communicate openly and with emotional depth and sincerity. I have worked a lot on communicating my true needs, thoughts, and feelings. I feel pretty good about my capabilities there. I show up consistently. I still also value my own time and quiet alone space.
I do deactivate from time to time, most recently last night after some inconsideration shown to me, perhaps just carelessly , but not the first time, and this time it got to me.
My boyfriend and I had planned to watch a movie and relax together after a dinner he had a commitment to.
Long story short, the dinner ran over time and he felt unable to break free, although he did text me during at some points to reaffirm our movie plan. (!)
Finally he came home too late to watch the movie.
I had already decided to go to bed.
I am pretty tolerant and can certainly be flexible, but feel very irritated by the fact that he didn't communicate that the plan wasn't viable (he agreed it was too late by the time he arrived back).
I arranged my evening around this plan, and then just wasted my time waiting (occupying myself, preparing popcorn, etc. ) when I could have occupied myself in a more satisfying way.
It's happened a couple times and I just feel annoyed and disinterested. I stayed the night there but was wishing I was just home, because I felt resentful and confused about whether this is worth it to me. I know I was deactivated, I lose attachment and affection feelings in that state but I have learned to ride it out, and not do anything drastic. I know my feelings will ebb when I feel disrespected or invalidated. They return and I state my needs and feelings and just go from there. But in the interim I really prefer to be away from the source of my frustration or dissatisfaction. I feel much relief with distance and space and only stayed the night to avoid more conflict and emotional drama.
In the morning, I politely explained that I understood that time got away and he was unable to keep our plan, but asked that in the future he be more mindful of my time and communicate with me that a plan is changing . I explained that I arranged my evening around our plans and would have done things differently and pursued my own interests that night had I received a heads up before he actually showed up too late.
So, I feel healthy for having been assertive. My issue right now is that I am feeling disinterested and turned off, and just feel confused if it's just my deactivation, or if my intuition is pinching me, saying he's really not a good mate for me.
He received my comments and request well and admitted the lack of consideration and apologized. I guess my answers will come as time goes on and I determine if there is enough mutual respect and consideration to keep me interested. I have to see if this is going to be a pattern.
Another issue is I have no desire to spend the evening with him this evening. I'm just turned off. So I am home and have explained truthfully I am tired and need to rest. The other part I didn't share is I am kind of tired of him, the focus on his needs and wants and preferences, and the lack of consideration for my own. And, I can feel the prickly anxiety from me taking space after a disappointing evening. I know he wanted to make it up to me but I'm not feeling it and truthfully feel that I would be further annoyed by any drama. Or that anxious needy edge I feel from him.
He tends to blame himself for lots of things that have nothing to do with him, and then also get defensive when he truly has crossed a line. It's tiring and frustrating.
Anyway. Are there any dismissive avoidant individuals here who can relate to this kind of thing? The deactivation and confusion and loss of interest? The confusion about "is this a problem, or am I just deactivating?"
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Post by ocarina on Jan 6, 2019 11:13:10 GMT
Hi @mickey - yes I can relate to your experience.
I have learnt to work my way round this kind of issue - I think for any attachment type, making decisions in a swirl of emotions is difficult - it's like being lost in a maze of feelings and reality with a hefty dose of past experience triggering mixed in.
I have become skilled at sitting with emotions (it's taken a long time) in order to eventually reach some kind of place of mental clarity at which point I am better in touch with the reality of the situation and better able to respond without the response coming from a place of reactivity and confusion.
It is possible to detach without deactivating if you see what I mean - and when you're feeling triggered (which is really what deactivation does to a DA) then actually conscious detachment is a good idea as long at the alone time is spent actually dealing with the underlying feelings rather than pushing them away or distracting. It sounds as though you need space and that in itself is important - as long as this is accompanied by compassionate communication on your part, his reaction is really just that - his reaction and not your responsibility.
It may be that after processing, you feel you're done - or that there's enough there to encourage you to roll with the relationship and see how things go, either way the decision is best made when the hurt has been processed and is not raw and dictating your behaviour.
Relationships are between two people and both need to be able to deal with their own side of the street (to a large extent) in order to make them healthy partners - it's not an easy thing and these boards are scattered with stories where one or both sides are unable to do that and chose to blame and shame their partners instead. Do your bit and the rest will follow.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 14:56:55 GMT
"Recentment, disatisfaction, irritated, annoyed and disinterested, felt resentful and confused, disinterested and turned off....."
"In the morning, I politely explained that I understood that time got away and he was unable to keep our plan,
And that made you feel...? What ? (EX. not important, left out, ignored, hurt, sad, lonely, abandoned ect.?) And did it remind you of something from your past ? Did you also tell him this ?
Diden´t you tell him about your feelings, because you do not want to be seen as vulnarble, needy, weak, pathetic ect ? (Shadow word/shame word)
but asked that in the future he be more mindful of my time and communicate with me that a plan is changing . I explained that I arranged my evening around our plans and would have done things differently and pursued my own interests that night had I received a heads up before he actually showed up too late." Can you go back to him and explain more ? Do you think it would help you not to deactivate ? I didn't tell him about my negative feelings because he says that I over react and he becomes defensive and insulting when he feels rejected. He feels rejected if I have a negative reaction to something he says or does. Thats the emotional intensity that I believe is stemming from his fear of abandonment which I mentioned in my original post. As far as my internal feelings, I don't feel safe being vulnerable about them with him now because of huge "rejection" drama he has displayed any time I am not happy. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 14:57:44 GMT
He makes it all about him and HIS feelings.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 15:18:21 GMT
Hi @mickey - yes I can relate to your experience. I have learnt to work my way round this kind of issue - I think for any attachment type, making decisions in a swirl of emotions is difficult - it's like being lost in a maze of feelings and reality with a hefty dose of past experience triggering mixed in. I have become skilled at sitting with emotions (it's taken a long time) in order to eventually reach some kind of place of mental clarity at which point I am better in touch with the reality of the situation and better able to respond without the response coming from a place of reactivity and confusion. It is possible to detach without deactivating if you see what I mean - and when you're feeling triggered (which is really what deactivation does to a DA) then actually conscious detachment is a good idea as long at the alone time is spent actually dealing with the underlying feelings rather than pushing them away or distracting. It sounds as though you need space and that in itself is important - as long as this is accompanied by compassionate communication on your part, his reaction is really just that - his reaction and not your responsibility. It may be that after processing, you feel you're done - or that there's enough there to encourage you to roll with the relationship and see how things go, either way the decision is best made when the hurt has been processed and is not raw and dictating your behaviour. Relationships are between two people and both need to be able to deal with their own side of the street (to a large extent) in order to make them healthy partners - it's not an easy thing and these boards are scattered with stories where one or both sides are unable to do that and chose to blame and shame their partners instead. Do your bit and the rest will follow. Thanks Ocarina. Yes, I am detaching and doing my bit. I'm working through my end, even posting here to do some talking through it. I slept very well, which was sorely needed. I am going to have some coffee and read, and just take care of myself today. He and I messaged a bit last night about mundane things. I kept it light because 1) I hate dealing with heavy issues over text 2) I don't want to talk about it until I am rested 3) I am not sure further discussion is warranted on this unless and until it happens again, and I will reassess. I don't want to go deeply into my feelings with him at this point because I am trying to decipher them myself. So, I am going to just have some peace and self care and my own process for today. We usually face-time for communication because it's the best other than face to face in person so we will probably do that later. I am not interested in doing that until I have some more time in myself and my own routines and environment. I just would like to enjoy my simplicity and refresh myself, get back to me. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 15:24:01 GMT
What is a negative feeling ? Unless he is BDP, NARC, ASPD ect. do you think it would be a good thing to try to dare to open up ? Have you read the threads in the general discussion forum and in the secure forum ? I open up to him when he is not displaying anxious behavior about the future of the relationship over conflict or disagreement. I feel annoyed by his lack of consideration for my time. I was enjoying a nice and hard to come by visit with a good female friend which I cut short to keep our plan. Im not sure this has to be so complicated. I didn't feel rejected or anything. He basically stood me up and while it's been addressed, there are some other things giving me pause. One of the things is his emotional reaction of I go more deeply into something, by sharing negative feelings like "irritation, annoyance"... those things seem to trigger him and he goes on the defensive and invalidates me. I think that is very disrespectful. As long as I keep it surface and polite without letting him know I am annoyed and turned off, there is less emotional entanglement and messiness. Ive been very open with my heart with him but during conflict it just makes things triggery (worse) and the risk really is me wanting to leave and not come back. I just hate the way when I have feelings he gets triggered, rejected, and defensive. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 15:31:07 GMT
What is a negative feeling ? Unless he is BDP, NARC, ASPD ect. do you think it would be a good thing to try to dare to open up ? Maybe you can write it down and prepare yourself. Do you know how to talk with a soft tone of voice, kind eyes ect. and use (I feel...). Sometimes it can also help to put your hand on your heart, when you are talking about, how you are feeling. It can remind you that you are takling about yourself and it can show the other person, that you are talking about you and that you are not a threat.
Have you read the threads in the general discussion forum and in the secure forum ? I have read those threads. Im not sure you're getting where I am coming from. I feel legitimately annoyed by being left hanging. I have limited down time myself and would have enjoyed to make better use of it. I feel angry. I don't feel necessarily bad other than I believe I deserve more consideration. I was kept waiting by my father all my childhood as he failed to show up. I have worked through a lot of child pain. At this point I would just like some courtesy, as a grown woman. At some point, it does become about adult relating and mutual consideration, does it not? I believe I am questioning the viability of my feelings for him because of the way he invalidates my feelings when I address a legitimate complaint. He is so afraid of the relationship ending over any conflict, so it seems he escalates them. As long as I am not annoyed, we are all good. If I am annoyed , my reaction, to him, is not legitimate because he loves me SO MUCH. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 16:36:31 GMT
I'll give an example of how my boyfriend's emotional focus on himself and whether he is adequate creates difficulty for me and how I feel unsupported because of it.
These are the issues that are causing me to question the viability of the relationship simply because I don't feel "seen" and supported as he views my struggles through his own lense and tried to fix things in his way instead of supporting me in finding my own solutions.
I am at an age where my hormones are beginning to become imbalanced.
I have also had some health struggles that contribute to that.
I am working through it.
So, I shared that I feel my hormones are not in balance and it's causing me stress.
I feel hungry all the time, I am experiencing insomnia, and my libido is suffering.
I told him I want to have my levels checked and see what I can do about this.
His response was to feel sad that I cannot fall asleep at his house, it must be because I don't feel comfortable in his home.
He knows that he snores and he feels responsibility for my insomnia, even though I have slept through his snoring in the past with earplugs.
He surely will internalize my challenged libido ( I have been happily participating in sex with regular frequency but have had issues with completion).
So, what he doesn't realize is that his emotional responses to my struggles create more of a burden for me, where I have to explain and reassure and try to convince him I am not lying when I say I think I have hormone issues. I'm not trying to spare his feelings, by making something up.
His insecurity cannot accept my reality. But I hesitate to share this BECAUSE OF THE EMOTIONAL RESPONSE.
Nor can he offer the support I would like. No woman enjoys the change of life. I think it's emotionally vulnerable for me to discuss it as Ihave in factual terms. I've already shared the difficulty of feeling less attractive, etc... the insecure parts. Now, I would like to get some darn sleep.
So, I feel he is not available for me to support me with my needs because he makes it about him, and it triggers his fear that I will not be happy with him, he cannot make me happy. Ironically, it's his insecurity that is my biggest burden. I feel that all else can be handled- people deal with hormone issues all the time.
But fearing abandonment over the hormone issues is just one more thing I am struggling to find the energy to deal with.
As I write this out I feel discouraged about this relationship. It seems so imbalanced. When his knee hurts, I help him feel better with massage and heat. When I suffer, I have to soothe him. He doesn't ask for soothing, but countering his assertions that it's all his fault amounts to that. I feel tired and like I can't get through to him. I really would appreciate some faith in my capacity to identify and resolve a KNOWN Real Life Issue with Women of My Age Experiencing Hormonal Imbalance in Perimenopause.
Is it so hard?
I guess I am venting but I am also figuring out what is bothering me about this dynamic. I don't feel supported in a reasonable way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 16:39:09 GMT
Yes I think I get it. You are still angry: "He received my comments and request well and admitted the lack of consideration and apologized." It sounds like there is more to it. Do you have to get back, and put a more firm boundarie, do you think ? What will you do in the future ? EX: I grew up waiting for my dad, and it make me feel ignored.
If this happens again, I will ask you to get back to me within 30 minites. Otherwise I will leave and go back home to myself ect..... Maybe he is not for you? Yes, maybe he is not. He responded positively in this case I believe because I did NOT share my feelings this time. But I would like to be able to share my feelings honestly, it would feel safer emotionally to me. My feelings trigger his abandonment. I think I am getting some more clarity. Thank you. |
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laura
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Post by laura on Jan 6, 2019 16:59:00 GMT
Am I allowed to respond? I'm an AP. I know you want DA's to respond but I really think you sound practical with your thinking. Your thinking is respecting yourself and him
I just wanted to say that I was annoyed with him just by reading your entry. It reminded me of things I used to deal with. It is my understanding you were staying at his place? Regardless, he knew you were waiting for him. He obviously could text. It's just kind of rude.
I can understand you needing a little break. I would be a little turned off myself. And, this is coming from someone who gives too much of myself and asks for very little in return.
You seem very level headed and insightful. I wouldn't say it's a red flag but it's definitely a yellow one. If he is interested in keeping this relationship then he needs to communicate better.
On a side note, my ex avoidant thought he was being very clear with me. In hindsight, I am not sure if he was or if I was only listening to what I wanted to hear. It's important to set clear boundaries with AP's. Make sure we understand. Communication is everything.
I wish my ex boyfriend had an ounce of your insight. You sound very compassionate and kind. AP's can be very draining and exhausting.
This is what I tell people:
"You have to put up with me [X] hours a day. I have to deal with myself 24/7. Trust me. You get the better end of the deal!"
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 17:29:47 GMT
Am I allowed to respond? I'm an AP. I know you want DA's to respond but I really think you sound practical with your thinking. Your thinking is respecting yourself and him I just wanted to say that I was annoyed with him just by reading your entry. It reminded me of things I used to deal with. It is my understanding you were staying at his place? Regardless, he knew you were waiting for him. He obviously could text. It's just kind of rude. I can understand you needing a little break. I would be a little turned off myself. And, this is coming from someone who gives too much of myself and asks for very little in return. You seem very level headed and insightful. I wouldn't say it's a red flag but it's definitely a yellow one. If he is interested in keeping this relationship then he needs to communicate better. On a side note, my ex avoidant thought he was being very clear with me. In hindsight, I am not sure if he was or if I was only listening to what I wanted to hear. It's important to set clear boundaries with AP's. Make sure we understand. Communication is everything. I wish my ex boyfriend had an ounce of your insight. You sound very compassionate and kind. AP's can be very draining and exhausting. This is what I tell people: "You have to put up with me [X] hours a day. I have to deal with myself 24/7. Trust me. You get the better end of the deal!" Wow, thank you for this kind response. I was just reflecting on the things I love about him and softening a little bit. Your reply actually helps me feel validated in my feelings but also able to be understanding of his fears also. There are a lot of things about him that I cherish. One is his ability, when not triggered, to relate on a deep level. This is something I have worked hard on and it is so special to me to be able to share my deepest thoughts and dreams and perspectives and be appreciated and nurtured. When he isn't triggered, I feel that he understands and loves and supports me in a very meaningful way that inspires me to be more and more of who I am. In that way, being with him helps me to evolve into my most genuine, highest self. When he is not triggered I feel loved and understood and respected. When he is triggered I feel betrayed and kind of tricked and manipulated. And attacked! He actually says hurtful and invalidating things when he is "hot". He goes on the offense. So, maybe with more time today to just take care of my annoyance I will have a better take on things. If I can let him know that I am actively looking for answers and relief about my hormones, and just work though that in plain sight with him looking on, regardless of his insecurity, he will be able to see the process and trust it and not take it personally. And, Iwill hopefully find the answers. I don't want to keep having the conversation with him because it feels kind of like beating a dead horse so I will just do my thing and let him witness it. I did reach out to him this morning as I suspect he is feeling doubtful that I care. I do care. I am conflicted but I want to see things clearly and not sabotage. It's difficult to navigate deactivation. What's real? What's a red flag? What is legitimate, what is pattern and habit? In the absence of a big emotional attachment (as happens with deactivation) I have to rely on reasonableness and be open to input. I think my annoyance is legitimate. Both with the incident last night and the tendency to make my issues about him. But maybe there is a way to navigate it that takes into account both of our internal vulnerabilities. I need to do some exercise and take a walk to let it just rest for now I think. I think I'm doing what I can, I just want to do something else for a bit today. If I move in any direction right now, either strongly to or strongly away from the situation, I won't have confidence I am doing the right thing for either of us. It just takes me time to find the middle ground, and know what is real and not just reflex. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 17:58:01 GMT
Also, I am fully aware that if he felt triggered by me not staying at his place and being distant because of my feelings and need to have my own time, I may deal with some rejecting protest behaviors today.
I have read that an anxious person might delay response or pretend to be unavailable once an avoidant reaches out. Maybe to "turn the tables" or something. I have tried to understand some things I see from him so I can be more tolerant. He does seem to want to "reject" when he feels "rejected". This is the emotional intensity that needs to be navigated. I feel more angst about this than the original incident where I set my boundary about my time.
I think my deactivation is more about not feeling able to approach him without backlash than the original irritation.
Sure, I made my boundary. He responded well. But I felt that I had to protect and consider him more than he considered me the previous evening. I guess acceptance and tolerance is the key but I have to know when the balance shifts too much away from taking good care of me.
So, I have reached out this morning to say that I took a sleep aid and slept well, but that I want to explore the underlying issue and not rely on sleep aids. I also asked how he slept because he often suffers from not enough sleep also. So it seems like a good way to reach out with concern for both of us?
I also said that a friend of mine asked us on a double date.
I'll know his frame of mind when I hear back, and take it from there.
I do still feel confused. So best to lay low and just be normal. I guess? And I want to pay attention to anything else that crops up in myself today. It gets so confusing. I need a break without seeming like I am running away. Not sure how to do that on this particular day!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 18:30:06 GMT
Yes I think I get it. You are still angry: "He received my comments and request well and admitted the lack of consideration and apologized." It sounds like there is more to it. Do you have to get back, and put a more firm boundarie, do you think ? What will you do in the future ? EX: I grew up waiting for my dad, and it make me feel ignored.
If this happens again, I will ask you to get back to me within 30 minites. Otherwise I will leave and go back home to myself ect..... Maybe he is not for you? May I point out, that this reminds me of the circular conversations that happen with my partner when he is anxious. I could quote myself as much as you have quoted me haha! I mentioned, This is not the first time this has happened and this time it got to me. I mentioned, I have other things giving me pause, and that includes the emotional reaction around conflict that triggers his abandonment issues. I mentioned, that I did not feel safe sharing my annoyance. That's why I left it at a mere boundary and statement of preference. So, yes, it does seem to be more to it. Like I said. And am now acknowledging, again. I feel still annoyed after his acknowledgment and apology (as you quoted) because of the tippy-toe way I felt I needed to approach it to keep this from being about his abandonment and unworthiness instead of what the issue was.... true inconsideration in leaving me hanging and a lack of respect for my time. I feel like you might be selectively responding to things that stand out to you instead of grasping all that I have shared here. Of course that is ok but I just notice it as unhelpful and something I struggle with in the dynamic with my boyfriend. It's interesting and I will explore what this means to me. I am trying to work through all that's happening in me today. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 19:21:40 GMT
So, the update.
We did connect via facetime.
The conversation around sleep did include his assertion that he thinks that I am just feeling "out of place"
at his home.
And he did say that the differences between our sleepy hygiene routines are "not his fault".
Haha!
I am laughing because it's so predictable and absurd. I get it, and I care about him anyway.
But he is hypersensitive about self - blaming and defending himself.
Here I am saying all these reasons I am not sleeping well...
routine, hormones, lack of physical exercise? etc etc.
Here I am saying I took a sleep aid at my own home, because I couldn't sleep.
He doesn't take any of that in and jumps right to his own narrative.
Yes it is exhausting.
However. I am focusing on the positives of him, and suggested we go for a walk outside together.
This will take care of my strong wish to get some fresh air and exercise and reset my body rhythms, and also soothe him with time together.
I think that if I am able to help him trust my consistency even when I am not the happiest, maybe he will lighten up and not take everything personally.
I also try to not take things personally, it's a matter of balance and building trust and familiarity I guess.
We all have baggage.
I struggle as a dismissive avoidant because my emotions are unreliable, they disappear or get exacerbated like any person with things to work through.
It's challenging but I'm trying to be constructive and I feel good about trying to fix up a rift and take care of both us the best I can.
Maybe it will be ok if I just keep it simple and don't focus too much on the past or future.
The loss of emotion and attachment and affection is easier to navigate if I just act more "normal" than I feel at the moment, and then it kind of corrects itself.
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Post by ocarina on Jan 6, 2019 19:30:48 GMT
Not taking it personally is important.
It's also important as you recognise, NOT to walk on eggshells around his feelings - that's a painful road to resentment and unhappiness and ultimately if both of you cannot own your own emotions then it's going to be an uphill battle.
DAs are surprisingly good at keeping the peace - but to our own detriment and to the detriment of real intimacy which develops only when both partners feel safe enough to be their own authentic selves.
It gets exhausting always having to be on form in order to buoy a partner up - really exhausting and I don't think it's doable in the long term (or at least it wasn't for me). One of the downsides of having a partner with low self esteem is that it's really easy to assume the role of the cheer leader in the relationship which means it's impossible to be authentic and to have a bad day, without dragging your partner down. These kinds of partners also tend not to make supportive significant others in times of crisis since their own issues take priority.
That having been said every relationship is different - remember to take care of yourself first and allow him the space to do his own work here - if he can't or won't, don't play the light hearted card just to keep the peace.
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