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Post by 8675309 on Jan 8, 2019 18:58:42 GMT
I’d feel the same way...
And you sound like you’re gaining secure status. Awesomeness.
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 8, 2019 22:35:34 GMT
Some people even with open communication won’t or can’t deal with their flaws. Does feel crazy. Even when clearly presented to their faces. Sounds like you did everything you could do and ultimately did what you had to do. Thank you. Yes, I did everything I could and learned about doing too much, in terms of compensating for the poor emotional boundaries of a partner. I have to tighten up my boundaries by recognizing when something is amiss and and not accepting it in order to not look like the bad guy. I can see he lives in his own emotional alternate reality. I can't live there with him. It was frustrating that he wanted to be sentimental and reluctant to end things when I went to get my things from his house. As if he wasn't sure this is the way to go. It's true that some of the best times I ever had with a man, I had with him. But the price was high. His needs and perspectives reigned supreme, and it's not fun to receive a lecture on my inadequacies nearly every day. Especially when I'm the only one making adjustments. I don't know what he is holding on to, but I am not going to get caught in sentimentality and wishing for what simply wasn't happening. What was happening caused both of us stress and unhappiness and I can't drag that out with fantasies of what might have been. He's extremely wishy washy and I saw that last night. I've asked for no contact because I don't want to ride the merry go round with him. Perhaps he tended to express doubts about the relationship and question it's viability, when he didn't really mean it and was just looking for me to assure him and make things right for him. I was always maintaining that we were working a day at a time for a future, but he pulled that away in little fits that I have learned is called protest behavior. One time too many. This time I just agreed that it sucks and made a quick exit. I guess he is surprised and a little stunned. I think in the long run it's absolutely the best thing that could happen here, for both of us. Sorry 😞 I know it’s so hard. Matters of the heart are complicated. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 22:39:50 GMT
I’d feel the same way... And you sound like you’re gaining secure status. Awesomeness. Thanks, I'm glad I made a decision. I'm feeling relieved but emotionally hung over from the stress of it all. Really looking forward to some time for myself to recharge and regain my peace. I'll consider myself secure when I don't get myself involved in this toxic crap :/ Actually, I have no desire to be "involved" for a long time I'm sure.... but I'll continue working on whatever comes up for me as a single DA. I'm going to exit the forum as I found what I needed here, thank you ocarina .... Best of luck to you in 2019! |
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Post by leavethelighton on Jan 9, 2019 1:12:36 GMT
. . . I have read that an anxious person might delay response or pretend to be unavailable once an avoidant reaches out. Maybe to "turn the tables" or something. I have tried to understand some things I see from him so I can be more tolerant. He does seem to want to "reject" when he feels "rejected". . . .
I was thinking about this the other day as I've done it. I think it's a bit of a safety thing like-- wow, this person is doing what I've wanted them to do by reaching out, but I still don't trust it because of their past avoidance/disappearance/detachment/etc. and don't want to get hurt again, so I'm going to see whether or not they keep reaching out before I can step back.
Of course the tragedy is that the person who reached out may then perceive disinterest where there's really a lot of (hesitant) interest.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 1:43:13 GMT
. . . I have read that an anxious person might delay response or pretend to be unavailable once an avoidant reaches out. Maybe to "turn the tables" or something. I have tried to understand some things I see from him so I can be more tolerant. He does seem to want to "reject" when he feels "rejected". . . .
I was thinking about this the other day as I've done it. I think it's a bit of a safety thing like-- wow, this person is doing what I've wanted them to do by reaching out, but I still don't trust it because of their past avoidance/disappearance/detachment/etc. and don't want to get hurt again, so I'm going to see whether or not they keep reaching out before I can step back.
Of course the tragedy is that the person who reached out may then perceive disinterest where there's really a lot of (hesitant) interest.
i have soooo much trouble with this! it is the inability to act in good faith towards other people combined with the distrust that you are protected by yourself, and most importantly, a lack of trust in the good faith and tensility of the relationship. I think deep down, i believe that the relationship isn't a real one, and so there really isn't anything to fall back on in times of hurt. with friends i know for a long time that have proved themselves to be stable and long lasting, when i get hurt, i don't take it personally at all and welcome their attempts to reconcile. if you (or I) really decided that i didn't want this anymore, i would step away; what happens is that both parties try and then get rebuffed when someone doesn't respond exactly the way we want them to, then the hurt gets doubled and it adds up. this is an insecure thing, not just an anxious or an avoidant behavior - i've seen in both anxious and avoidants. |
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Post by ocarina on Jan 9, 2019 12:37:28 GMT
@mickey I'm glad you found this helpful.
Relationships are a messy murky zone and the older we get the more baggage we carry so it can be very difficult to sift through to the reality.
As an avoidant I take care not to lay blame - the only person who I have responsibility for is myself and a toxic dynamic takes two - have compassion for this person who was only doing his best with what he had to offer - it wasn't right for you but it's good to bear in mind that his behaviour was conditioned and likely unwitting. It made you feel yuck - but it doesn't follow that he is yuck if you see what I mean. Maybe your real need is to be heard? Since it seems that this is what he wasn't able to do - and that this is what triggered the real discomfort within you (at least that's how I read it - forgive me if I have misinterpreted).
I tend to get over relationships very quickly - or I have in the past - and I think this is because I have tended to rationalise and blame rather than allow myself to feel real compassion for both parties and truly experience the sadness that comes from not being heard, the need for real companionship that was missing. I think you absolutely did the right thing in recognising your role as peace keeper - and that's the part that creates the toxic dynamic and the part to play with - the feelings around this. Maybe a dislike of conflict which drives you to tolerate the intolerable?
Rather than focusing on the other, the key for me in this kind of situation is to be with an open compassion for myself and the other person - it doesn't mean agreeing with what they've done, but it does take the focus on their actions and my own internal dialogue and instead allow real healing to take place.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 13:16:35 GMT
ocarina , thanks- are you reading into something here? Being relieved to be done with him doesn't mean he gets all the blame, that may be true in your experiece with yourself but I don't see it that way. It's true that I am disgusted by his behavior. However, earlier in this thread I was and still am concerned with the issues within myself that led and kept me here. And, I've just made a statement that I will consider myself secure when I don't get myself into toxic crap like this. And, that I would continue to work on what comes up for me as a single DA. I am aware that it takes two to tango and I came to this forum with confusion about what was going on in my own head. So- yes I am glad to be done and I'll be over it quickly. But as I said in an early post on this thread, I will be figuring out what has happened in my own thoughts and actions. I don't know if you read all that. I tend to avoid conflict and speaking up and having boundaries in some situations to not be the bad guy. That has roots in my childhood. So does not being heard. So it's important to know where all this started, but it comes down to basic boundaries for me really, and being treated with respect and care both by myself and others. I tolerated and stayed quiet about some things I won't tolerate and stay quiet about again. There is much not included in this thread. You can be sure I will be looking to take better care of myself because his behavior truly did suck and I stayed too long because of my own issues. The issue I have been trying to work through here in this thread is the confusion around "Is this just a refkexive deactivation? or is there something I need to take action on?". The confusion is real, and I am learning through experiences like this that it pays to listen to myself, instead of discounting my discomfort. A theme in this relationship was recognizing that I wasn't being listened to. I have difficulty sometimes taking action with boundaries because of the actual deactivation mechanism that takes place... and I can't see clearly if I am thinking and behaving in habit from the past or appropriately in the present. It just takes practice and walking through situations like this to get my bearings internally.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 16:41:28 GMT
So, I've spent some time reflecting on this experience, this morning. I'd say I could wrap up the thread for myself like this/ I was deactivated and put off by the disrespect he displayed for my time and feelings, by standing me up. I was assertive in making a practical boundary the next morning, but there was something still bothering me. I was trying to distinguish between being deactivated reflexively, and having legitimate feelings and indicators in the present moment, of something that needs to be addressed both in myself and in the relationship. As I talked it out here and walked it out IRL, by showing up presently in spite of a desire to avoid, I learned that my feelings were in fact important indicators of a real problem that I need to confront. Through the thread I was struggling with knowing what to do. However, as I listened to myself and observed the reality of what was actually happening, I realized that I have known all along exactly what I need, and that is to be heard and respected and understood and supported. I realized that I have expressed that and asked for it directly, and then I turned to accepting that he could not give me what I need and was just trying to adjust myself to keep the peace and not be attacked (as he has in the past) for being unreasonable or wrong somehow. Once I got clarity on the whole dynamic and my complicity in it, and recognized that I knew what I needed, had asked for it clearly, and he was unable to deliver, I changed course and exited the dynamic because it is not nurturing and healthy for me. I now have a little more experience walking through the dimly lit tunnel of deactivation and finding my self on the other side in better condition and not worse. So it's been a great thread for me although I realize now there are not too many DA here who could empathize. Your initial posts were very helpful in shining a light ocarina, thank you. And others chiming in to validate the feelings I was having about the situation were very helpful also! Because I was confused, knowing I was deactivated. I don't feel deactivated now, I just feel decisive and clear. And relieved because that was a very stressful environment for me! |
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Post by ocarina on Jan 9, 2019 18:00:12 GMT
Confusion and uncertainty are uncomfortable- I’m glad you found clarity and yes - I can relate to much of your experience especially the accommodation at your own expense. I sense you’re not blaming in either direction and apologies if my last post came across that way. What I was trying to suggest was that underneath the explains/ rationalism etc I have found in myself there’s often a tender vulnerable spot that needs my attention. Tara Brach explains it better than me: www.tarabrach.com/judgment-self-compassion/May not resonate with you - I’m sharing it because I’ve been where you are relationshipwise in the past and it’s helped me. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 18:33:22 GMT
Confusion and uncertainty are uncomfortable- I’m glad you found clarity and yes - I can relate to much of your experience especially the accommodation at your own expense. I sense you’re not blaming in either direction and apologies if my last post came across that way. What I was trying to suggest was that underneath the explains/ rationalism etc I have found in myself there’s often a tender vulnerable spot that needs my attention. Tara Brach explains it better than me: www.tarabrach.com/judgment-self-compassion/May not resonate with you - I’m sharing it because I’ve been where you are relationshipwise in the past and it’s helped me. Yes, this is good stuff, and I am familiar with Tara Brach's stuff. Earlier in my process of discovering all this and working through childhood stuff, I did a lot of work on uncovering and sitting through original wounds, and it's very useful. However, I find now that while old things can be triggered, I am much more in my adult self and needing to fine tune my radar and response to inapropriate behavior. These days, I'm starting to be able to believe that if it feels wrong it is wrong, and it's not just me. I was reading this interesting study that said that due to the style of caregiving (absent or neglectful) and the perception of threats in the environment, we learned to tune out (dismiss) the threats in order to preserve ourselves. We turn to compulsive self reliance. For me, it's been necessary to stop tuning out threats and minimizing my feelings about them, and instead take myself seriously and either ask for help (communication and boundaries) or take action myself instead of fading into the background. I don't feel an enormous emotional process around this breakup at this time, because I was really immersed in a lot of feeling and reflection and awareness of conflict in myself leading up to the break. Now I just feel like enough time and experience with this person enabled me to know what I needed to do to resolve my conflicts, and I did it. I have a lot of positive things going on otherwise and this relationship had become somewhat of a blister hampering my stride. I began to lose my investment in it over time as it became more frustrating and less satisfying and comfortable. I actually feel like I can step forward to other things with more freedom and less negativity weighing me down. I also am feeling the satisfaction of listening to myself and responding appropriately. I feel good about that, not so much sorrow about old wounding. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Jan 12, 2019 3:28:29 GMT
I was thinking about this the other day as I've done it. I think it's a bit of a safety thing like-- wow, this person is doing what I've wanted them to do by reaching out, but I still don't trust it because of their past avoidance/disappearance/detachment/etc. and don't want to get hurt again, so I'm going to see whether or not they keep reaching out before I can step back.
Of course the tragedy is that the person who reached out may then perceive disinterest where there's really a lot of (hesitant) interest.
i have soooo much trouble with this! it is the inability to act in good faith towards other people combined with the distrust that you are protected by yourself, and most importantly, a lack of trust in the good faith and tensility of the relationship. I think deep down, i believe that the relationship isn't a real one, and so there really isn't anything to fall back on in times of hurt. with friends i know for a long time that have proved themselves to be stable and long lasting, when i get hurt, i don't take it personally at all and welcome their attempts to reconcile. if you (or I) really decided that i didn't want this anymore, i would step away; what happens is that both parties try and then get rebuffed when someone doesn't respond exactly the way we want them to, then the hurt gets doubled and it adds up. this is an insecure thing, not just an anxious or an avoidant behavior - i've seen in both anxious and avoidants. Oh yes I agree it is both anxious and avoidant, often part of the downward spiral of that interaction. |
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