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Post by gaynxious on Jan 7, 2019 23:12:29 GMT
There is a lot out there that discusses dismissive and fearful as simply avoidant, lumping them in together as though avoidant is the primary description of their behavior and the anxiousness differentiating the two from each other. On here I have seen many posts about trying to determine if someone is dismissive or fearful but I never see anyone asking if someone is anxious or fearful.
Is it rare for someone that is fearful to be so anxious they present as anxious or does the nature of being fearful mean that the avoidant traits typically dominate? Or is there likely some sort of selection bias in the literature and the community here?
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 7, 2019 23:53:42 GMT
There is a lot out there that discusses dismissive and fearful as simply avoidant, lumping them in together as though avoidant is the primary description of their behavior and the anxiousness differentiating the two from each other. On here I have seen many posts about trying to determine if someone is dismissive or fearful but I never see anyone asking if someone is anxious or fearful. Is it rare for someone that is fearful to be so anxious they present as anxious or does the nature of being fearful mean that the avoidant traits typically dominate? Or is there likely some sort of selection bias in the literature and the community here? I think, if I understand you’re question, that the anxious and fearful aren’t confused bc the anxious don’t exhibit the avoidant tendencies- they present both high in anxious and high in approachability. Whereas, FA present high in both anxious and avoidant and DA as high avoidance and low anxiety. I think the fearful fluctuates between avoidant and fearful depending on the partner and situation. So, they may present anxious and you’ll see that trait dominating at times, but the avoidance will also present when triggered. Likely the longer you’re with an FA, the more you’ll see both traits. I am confused by the FA attachment vs DA. If someone appears to be FA for months and admittedly shut down in the past, and then shuts down for several months and is severely avoidant, does that mean that possibly they were DA all along? I guess I’m wondering at what point does an FA take the turn to DA who is only presenting deactivating behaviors and not acting fearful? That’s confusing to me. Maybe if it’s confusing I should assume it’s FA attachment. |
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Post by 8675309 on Jan 8, 2019 0:21:43 GMT
They can go anxious or avoidant depending on the triggers/partner.
@faithhopelove Im sure some can be a mix of DA/FA depending on partner just like other attachments. Like my avoidant triggered the crap out of me and I have some DA too.
Even when my guy circles back hes in the anxious state but doesn't really act anxious, he acts 'normal' as in not over texting, needing validation, etc, the usual anxious behaviors. In a way he acts secure and then goes avoidant after some time.
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 8, 2019 0:28:53 GMT
They can go anxious or avoidant depending on the triggers/partner. @faithhopelove Im sure some can be a mix of DA/FA depending on partner just like other attachments. Like my avoidant triggered the crap out of me and I have some DA too. Even when my guy circles back hes in the anxious state but doesn't really act anxious, he acts 'normal' as in not over texting, needing validation, etc, the usual anxious behaviors. In a way he acts secure and then goes avoidant after some time. Curious, what do you call over texting? My ex and I see each other casually and in this “new” relationship at times he doesn’t respond to a text. I don’t know whether I’m over texting or he’s shutting down. I try not to take it personally but I’d like to be realistic. |
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Post by 8675309 on Jan 8, 2019 0:56:07 GMT
@faithhopelove Texting all day all the time... and if I dont respond quickly keep texting. For me anyways. Example we may chat a bit during the day about something then not text the rest of the day or a bit again in the evening. Sometimes we dont text much at all. Ive been really slammed with work lately so I would not be texting as much but Id still check in, send a kiss emoji or the like to say hi. Hes the same way until hes triggered and goes avoidant then I barely hear from and he ghosts out. I usually let him do all the reaching out at this time and stay consistent in responding and when I reach out its usually a question or the like. I had a talk with mine last night(hes back) about attachment and he mentioned when he just doesn't want to talk to people and gets in a mood, he doesn't talk to anyone. I dont think its a total shut down but like a funk state and some of its some depression instead of total deactivation. We had a a good talk last night. He knows I understand him now and how much learning attachment has changed my life, it can change his too. Also I told him I looked up anxiety so I can understand what he goes through and he can talk to me about it even if he doesn't understand how he really feels. I said he can just say Im having one of my moments lets talk later or I need a few days, what ever is needed I can give him the space. Told him how he gave it to me and how I learned to sooth it by understanding what the cause was. He can learn to sooth his, he seemed a bit excited when I said he can eliminate most of it by understanding was causes it and but it might be some painful stuff... he talked openly about what a jerk his mom is. She still is to him... My anxiety is nothing in comparison and I dont even feel it anymore. Last night was the first time I was totally in my secure state with him. I could tell today as I was not drained like usual. He has general anxiety not just FA. He seems to cope ok with the general and the relationship anxiety triggers him harder.
To add: Just like today, I didnt reach out and let him come to me, I now know he needs that space after we spend time together. Im the type to text last night was hot or the like the next day. haha. Now I dont and its ok.
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 8, 2019 1:21:37 GMT
@faithhopelove Texting all day all the time... and if I dont respond quickly keep texting. For me anyways. Example we may chat a bit during the day about something then not text the rest of the day or a bit again in the evening. Sometimes we dont text much at all. Ive been really slammed with work lately so I would not be texting as much but Id still check in, send a kiss emoji or the like to say hi. Hes the same way until hes triggered and goes avoidant then I barely hear from and he ghosts out. I usually let him do all the reaching out at this time and stay consistent in responding and when I reach out its usually a question or the like. I had a talk with mine last night(hes back) about attachment and he mentioned when he just doesn't want to talk to people and gets in a mood, he doesnt talk to anyone. I dont think its a total shut down but like a funk state and some of its some depression instead of total deactivation. We had a a good talk last night. He knows I understand him now and how much learning attachment has changed my life, it can change his too. Also I told him I looked up anxiety so I can understand what he goes through and he can talk to me about it even if he doesn't understand how he really feels. I said he can just say Im having one of my moments lets talk later or I need a few days, what ever is needed I can give him the space. Told him how he gave it to me and how I learned to sooth it by understanding what the cause was. He can learn to sooth his, he seemed a bit excited when I said he can eliminate most of it by understanding was causes it and but it might be some painful stuff... he talked openly about what a jerk his mom is. She still is to him... My anxiety is nothing in comparison and I dont even feel it anymore. Last night was the first time I was totally in my secure state with him. I could tell today as I was not drained like usual. He has general anxiety not just FA. He seems to cope ok with the general and the relationship anxiety triggers him harder. Wow, that’s great that he’s open to talking about his issues. My ex recently apologized and stated that he sometimes shuts down but it’s not really open to discussion with him- he just occasionally will open up for a brief moment. Also, I’m not sure how to respond bc it seems to shut him down further. My texting may be 1 or 2 times a day- unless I’m backing away and giving him space, then I’ll go days w no contact. If he doesn’t respond at the first or possibly second text sent later than I stop reaching out that day. At times I reach out and we’ll banter back and forth several times for the evening. The contact seems to be totally at his will and discretion, depending on his mood, and I follow his lead. Unfortunately he doesn’t communicate his needs. I’m left guessing- and I’ve told him that. I’ve lately been more confident and less worried or calculating and started to reach out more like I would to any friend - just so I’d be less anxious about it and feel more true to myself. He also has these funks and has a hard time trusting and I feel if I withdraw too long with no texting (several days to weeks) - it sets back any trust and my anxiety builds. He’s tough. Walls are still activated after a year. |
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 8, 2019 1:27:37 GMT
@faithhopelove Texting all day all the time... and if I dont respond quickly keep texting. For me anyways. Example we may chat a bit during the day about something then not text the rest of the day or a bit again in the evening. Sometimes we dont text much at all. Ive been really slammed with work lately so I would not be texting as much but Id still check in, send a kiss emoji or the like to say hi. Hes the same way until hes triggered and goes avoidant then I barely hear from and he ghosts out. I usually let him do all the reaching out at this time and stay consistent in responding and when I reach out its usually a question or the like. I had a talk with mine last night(hes back) about attachment and he mentioned when he just doesn't want to talk to people and gets in a mood, he doesn't talk to anyone. I dont think its a total shut down but like a funk state and some of its some depression instead of total deactivation. We had a a good talk last night. He knows I understand him now and how much learning attachment has changed my life, it can change his too. Also I told him I looked up anxiety so I can understand what he goes through and he can talk to me about it even if he doesn't understand how he really feels. I said he can just say Im having one of my moments lets talk later or I need a few days, what ever is needed I can give him the space. Told him how he gave it to me and how I learned to sooth it by understanding what the cause was. He can learn to sooth his, he seemed a bit excited when I said he can eliminate most of it by understanding was causes it and but it might be some painful stuff... he talked openly about what a jerk his mom is. She still is to him... My anxiety is nothing in comparison and I dont even feel it anymore. Last night was the first time I was totally in my secure state with him. I could tell today as I was not drained like usual. He has general anxiety not just FA. He seems to cope ok with the general and the relationship anxiety triggers him harder.
To add: Just like today, I didnt reach out and let him come to me, I now know he needs that space after we spend time together. Im the type to text last night was hot or the like the next day. haha. Now I dont and its ok.
So, after you’re together does he seem to pull back? My ex (DA/FA) pulls back immediately after we’re close....anywhere from 2-5 days. If I don’t initiate contact though I don’t think he will for a very long time bc he broke up w me and doesn’t want to give me false hope. It’s strange to me but that’s how his mind works, plus he already struggles w not feeling worthy. |
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Post by 8675309 on Jan 8, 2019 1:50:30 GMT
@faithhopelove
It was a really big step and I almost expected not to hear from him today! LOL I'll see how it continues. Rght now I accept who he is with no expectations, baby steps. I did tell him... this may trigger you to run and its ok, process it, I know you need time for things like this. I swear I saw this sense of relief in him that he knows I understand him. He even commented at least someone understands me.
He pulls back a bit, sometimes I didn't hear from him the next day at all or it was limited contact like today, he didnt reach out till a bit ago. Other times its very limited contact and ghosts out. Usually its after we have seen each other two weeks in a row.
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Post by happyidiot on Jan 8, 2019 2:05:47 GMT
gaynxiousYes FA is confused for AP too! I totally thought I was AP at first. It's because I have a strong anxious side and the romantic relationships that stood out to me were the few where I was pulled into a very AP mode. Have a look at my threads. Attachment type is a spectrum, and it's also dynamic.
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 8, 2019 2:44:50 GMT
@faithhopelove It was a really big step and I almost expected not to hear from him today! LOL I'll see how it continues. Rght now I accept who he is with no expectations, baby steps. I did tell him... this may trigger you to run and its ok, process it, I know you need time for things like this. I swear I saw this sense of relief in him that he knows I understand him. He even commented at least someone understands me. He pulls back a bit, sometimes I didn't hear from him the next day at all or it was limited contact like today, he didnt reach out till a bit ago. Other times its very limited contact and ghosts out. Usually its after we have seen each other two weeks in a row. It must be a relief for him to feel someone is patient and understanding. I avoid using words like trigger with mine but maybe I should talk more freely. I tend to be more open in texts but he never responds well to texts about serious topics. I agree with the baby steps- my DA acts like an abused animal that is afraid to trust, approach and be loved. I’m willing to be there- he just doesn’t believe me. His honesty w me and loyalty enable me to be more understanding...and believe in his buried feelings. |
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 8, 2019 2:46:35 GMT
@faithhopelove It was a really big step and I almost expected not to hear from him today! LOL I'll see how it continues. Rght now I accept who he is with no expectations, baby steps. I did tell him... this may trigger you to run and its ok, process it, I know you need time for things like this. I swear I saw this sense of relief in him that he knows I understand him. He even commented at least someone understands me. He pulls back a bit, sometimes I didn't hear from him the next day at all or it was limited contact like today, he didnt reach out till a bit ago. Other times its very limited contact and ghosts out. Usually its after we have seen each other two weeks in a row. What did you say may trigger him to run? Spending time together? |
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Post by 8675309 on Jan 8, 2019 3:03:53 GMT
@faithhopelove It was a really big step and I almost expected not to hear from him today! LOL I'll see how it continues. Rght now I accept who he is with no expectations, baby steps. I did tell him... this may trigger you to run and its ok, process it, I know you need time for things like this. I swear I saw this sense of relief in him that he knows I understand him. He even commented at least someone understands me. He pulls back a bit, sometimes I didn't hear from him the next day at all or it was limited contact like today, he didnt reach out till a bit ago. Other times its very limited contact and ghosts out. Usually its after we have seen each other two weeks in a row. It must be a relief for him to feel someone is patient and understanding. I avoid using words like trigger with mine but maybe I should talk more freely. I tend to be more open in texts but he never responds well to texts about serious topics. I agree with the baby steps- my DA acts like an abused animal that is afraid to trust, approach and be loved. I’m willing to be there- he just doesn’t believe me. His honesty w me and loyalty enable me to be more understanding...and believe in his buried feelings. I totally spoke freely and used the terms like triggered like I would with a friend/boyfriend. I did not care if it triggered him, thats his thing. I was talking calmly about healthy things when were were snuggled and relaxed, I will not walk on eggshells again, he runs, he runs. I straight up said if he wants it to work he has to meet my needs too, I can meet his, he just needs to talk to me instead of running, I have your back, i'll pick you up when you're down, I'll hug you when you need it and I'll leave you alone when you need it. I did not bring up commitment or bf/gf status though.
It was a chill chat we had and seemed to stay pretty relaxed the whole time. We do have fun together so there was a bit of light hearted humor in the mix of this talk even though it was a 'serious' talk. For him, he was pretty open to listening and opened up a bit, well I think he opened a lot for him, I asked and he answered. Lets see how it goes! haha.
And your other question, yes two weeks in a row was a lot for him I guess. I asked about growing to once a week visits and see ya he went.
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 8, 2019 3:15:32 GMT
It must be a relief for him to feel someone is patient and understanding. I avoid using words like trigger with mine but maybe I should talk more freely. I tend to be more open in texts but he never responds well to texts about serious topics. I agree with the baby steps- my DA acts like an abused animal that is afraid to trust, approach and be loved. I’m willing to be there- he just doesn’t believe me. His honesty w me and loyalty enable me to be more understanding...and believe in his buried feelings. I totally spoke freely and used the terms like triggered like I would with a friend/boyfriend. I did not care if it triggered him, thats his thing. I was talking calmly about healthy things when were were snuggled and relaxed, I will not walk on eggshells again, he runs, he runs. I straight up said if he wants it to work he has to meet my needs too, I can meet his, he just needs to talk to me instead of running, I have your back, i'll pick you up when you're down, I'll hug you when you need it and I'll leave you alone when you need it. I did not bring up commitment or bf/gf status though.
It was a chill chat we had and seemed to stay pretty relaxed the whole time. We do have fun together so there was a bit of light hearted humor in the mix of this talk even though it was a 'serious' talk. For him, he was pretty open to listening and opened up a bit, well I think he opened a lot for him, I asked and he answered. Lets see how it goes! haha.
And your other question, yes two weeks in a row was a lot for him I guess. I asked about growing to once a week visits and see ya he went.
Healthy perspective...I’m warming up to that- not walking on eggshells as I grow in my security and letting the chips fall where they may. Best of luck to you...I can def relate to every word you typed! Please keep me posted  |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 8, 2019 3:19:58 GMT
gaynxious, I think there is a selection bias. An FA isn't going to be very avoidant with someone more avoidant, and that avoidant may feel relief with some distancing anyway and not even notice. Most likely, if they did even decide to analyze the FA after the fact, they'd probably just talk about how they seemed oppressive when anxious and assume they were AP... unless maybe they knew a lot about this person's history and that they'd turned off and run away from non-avoidant partners in the past and put the puzzle pieces together. That same FA is going to swing avoidant with an AP. That AP will get caught in the dance, is much more likely to come to the board, ruminate, overanalyze, and know that the FA is some kind of avoidant so not assume they are also straight-forward AP. I can think of 3 examples of FAs off the top of my head who thought they were AP because they'd only dated avoidants, and 1 who thought she was DA but is FA, so it can be confusing all around. I can think of a couple more who I wasn't completely sure about between AP and FA (for example, one I've known a long time ended up testing secure in her relationships and overall but highly FA with her parents). But those are just anecdotal.
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Post by 8675309 on Jan 8, 2019 3:30:48 GMT
@faithholelove
Im totally letting the chips fall. I feel 'normal' again and a weight off my shoulders that I spilled my guts so to speak. It was freeing to just say it and the chips will land where they land. If felt like a different dynamic last night in a good way. I'll certainly will see how things progress. I'll bring up more later, that is enough to sit with for now for him! LOL. It was also satisfying enough for me too for now.
Reality, hes not going anywhere even when hes running from me/shut down. I feel it in my bones.
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