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Post by unluckyinlove on Jan 16, 2019 0:21:02 GMT
I’ve already told my story on another thread, but I’m still having trouble getting closure. I’m hoping another FA (or someone with experience!) can help shed light on what my FA BF may be feeling post breakup.
I am 2 months into BU initiated by my BF of almost 3 years. He first BU with me in May 2018 citing that he didn’t see a future with me, but he loved and adored me (said for the first time at BU). He returned in June saying he really did love me, missed me terribly and can’t see a future W/O me. He BU again in July and returned in August saying basically the same things. Rollercoaster!!
This last time he returned, he admitted that he was just scared and running (obvious to me) and he had NEVER returned to an ex before. He said even though he would miss exes, he was solid in his decision to BU and no one was ever memorable enough to stay….except for me. He told me that he knew he needed to do the work to earn my trust back, but when I took him back, it seemed that he just settled back in. Had I known of attachment styles, then maybe I would have been more understanding that his return was enough to prove his love, and this was just the best he could express it. But in my ignorance, I misinterpreted his failure to actually do the work to reconnect as a lack of interest.
I questioned if he really loved me or just missed my companionship, so I asked him one night if he was still attracted to me. He said I was making him feel uncomfortable, he blew up in anger and then just left. That’s the last time I saw or spoke with him. There were a few texts over the following two weeks as I tried to urge him for a conversation (he kept avoiding). Via texts, he told me that he thought everything was good and then I just hit him with this “barrage of insecurities” and he “can’t keep up with my constant need for validation”. Technically, there was never a mention of BU this time (obvious of course)…he just refused a conversation because “there was nothing more to say”.
I feel so hurt and disappointed by the way he left.….no respect of a conversation, no goodbyes, no real closure. It all feels so impulsive and unsettled. He even left all of his clothes behind which makes real closure even harder. He quit his job and moved as well so I feel like he is literally running from all of it.
We are in NC, I’m seeing a therapist, journaling, trying to force myself out of the house, exercising and doing everything I can think of to try to push forward but I don’t feel like I’m making any progress. I don’t expect him to come back, but it would comfort me to get another FA perspective. Could he realize/regret his impulsiveness, and could he realize that he left a good thing? Could he look at me as the one that got away? Is it possible for the FA or has he just buried those feelings? It just feels so much to me that he’s moved on and is never looking back…of course that is only my assumption because we have both been in NC. I’m just hoping a little validation helps gives me some closure. Thanks in advance.
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Post by mrob on Jan 16, 2019 1:48:41 GMT
I hate to say it, but the closure is in the leaving. The most I’ve been able to say is “I’m sorry” when pushed, and that’s all any contact would be seen as, if I were in his position.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 16, 2019 5:16:11 GMT
Had I known of attachment styles, then maybe I would have been more understanding that his return was enough to prove his love, and this was just the best he could express it. But in my ignorance, I misinterpreted his failure to actually do the work to reconnect as a lack of interest. I don't think this was an ignorant mistake on your part. You weren't getting your needs met, and you felt negative about it as a result. That was perfectly legitimate, because your ex came back to you without doing his own work on his attachment issues. So you were actually right, this left you with the option of: walking on eggshells to keep the peace, letting him cycle and recycle endlessly, tell him what you need to see if he can step up and face the problems. You tried to speak up, but you didn't like the answer. However, he didn't run because you spoke up. He ran because he is avoiding his issues, and there's nothing YOU can do about that because it has nothing to do with you. Mrob is right. Closure here comes from you, not your ex. Have you dug into your own attachment style? There's reasons you'd put up with this sort of ambivalence that have nothing to do with your ex. When you start to address those, closure follows. I've been through a similarly heartbreaking push-pull situation with an FA ex who was an incredible match outside of his own issues (which unfortunately made a healthy relationship impossible). So far, he would come and go based on his own whims forever if I'd let him, never allowing for closure if I took him at all his words. But because I worked on my attachment issues, my boundaries get a little better each time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 11:49:06 GMT
Hi, I'm sorry you're hurting. I read your post a few weeks ago. I think you were doing things the right way with him by being open and patient with him. You've also done the right thing by going to therapy, journaling, and allowing yourself to feel everything. I think you're on the right path even if it feels like you're not making progress. You're deep in the throes of it, but you're also deeply into recovering. Give it time, you will get there and the wound eventually will lessen.
I'm not FA, but I think the guy that I dated for seven months was and the end was also very unsatisfying. The closure is in him leaving and also some people never apologize. It could be that he is burying feelings and it will come up later, but maybe even if they do come up- it doesn't mean he'll ever apologize to you or give you that meaningful, empathetic ciosure/explanation/apology that you want. Some people are incapable of it. Some people are too ashamed to apologize. Some people think that after time it's pointless or too late. Some people are afraid. And some people, unfortunately, don't know how to mentalize properly and understand why someone needs an apology.
It's incredibly sad and infuriating I know- to invest time and love into someone and in moments see how incredibly invested they are and then just nothing. It's hard to wrap around when your heart can hold so much, but that's why closure is on us. To heal ourselves regardless of what the other person is doing/thinking/feeling. We can't wait around that.
Also, as alexandra said - you weren't getting your needs met. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if someone is FA or if someone is of another attachment style not meeting your needs. You deserve the consistent intimacy you give and don't need to compromise so much for it.
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Post by happyidiot on Jan 16, 2019 21:27:28 GMT
@unluckyinlove
I'm FA, although I'm probably more self-aware and in control of my actions than many of the FA people who spur their confused exes to make posts on these forums, so keep in mind that that may affect my insights in that what I'd be thinking or doing in this situation may be very different from what your ex thinks/does. I have dated multiple men who were much more strongly FA than me though and were the type to do what you describe your ex doing, so I know a thing or two about them.
What exactly made you ask if he was still attracted to you? Did you say more than that? If it was something that minor that proceeded him running in terror then I feel like he was already looking for any excuse to jump ship (which is common). His reaction was extreme. An FA person may (subconsciously) look for excuses to start a fight or find reasons it can't work or that you aren't The One. That is not your fault. It's a way to prevent closeness because closeness feels unsafe.
As for closure, it sounds like you are hoping to know if he is thinking about you and regretting running away from you. No one can know, but the sad reality is that it is possible that he has successfully buried his feelings. You may never know. I totally understand that strong desire to know, but you can't. It's like if only you knew that he felt bad and missed you it would prove something about your value, right? Assume he has no understanding about how he feels about you or why he does what he does. What helped me find closure was understanding attachment theory and realizing that it says nothing about my worth if a man flees from me, and doesn't mean he never had feelings for me. But it means he is not a suitable partner. And it helped me to give up any hope that the person is ever coming back and to fully let go of any notion of getting answers from him.
I hope you're ok.
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Post by unluckyinlove on Jan 17, 2019 0:09:43 GMT
[/quote]
Mrob is right. Closure here comes from you, not your ex. Have you dug into your own attachment style? There's reasons you'd put up with this sort of ambivalence that have nothing to do with your ex. When you start to address those, closure follows.
[/quote]
Alexandra: I’ve taken two online attachment quizzes (not sure how accurate they are but both came from therapist’s websites). Both indicated that I am mostly secure with AP tendencies. That sounds right. I think a fully secure would have probably left a long time ago, however I’m not completely AP because this relationship has been VERY slow moving from the start and I’ve been very patient (and content!) with the pace. I’m also not a jealous person and have maintained NC in all three BUs. He’s the one that’s come back each time.
The issue with this one is that I believed I was moving slow with someone who had been hurt from his prior relationship (his wife was having two affairs…one with a mutual friend of theirs). This would create insecurity in anyone regardless of attachment style!!! I thought with time, healing and patience, his emotional hesitation would work itself out. I only started to realize the deeper emotional availability issues when he started the breakups (when our relationship was actually going well!). I only discovered the FA attachment style after this last BU. I wish I had realized it sooner but as you said, I can’t put my needs on hold and it still doesn’t excuse his outright temper tantrum and his REFUSAL to even discuss it no matter how I try to approach. I realize now that although wrong on her part, there is strong evidence that his wife had the affairs because she felt neglected and ignored in the relationship. His issues were there prior to his marriage. It all makes sense now, but it’s frustrating that knowledge is hindsight….and I already fell in love with him.
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Post by unluckyinlove on Jan 17, 2019 0:10:47 GMT
Hi, I'm sorry you're hurting. I read your post a few weeks ago. I think you were doing things the right way with him by being open and patient with him. You've also done the right thing by going to therapy, journaling, and allowing yourself to feel everything. I think you're on the right path even if it feels like you're not making progress. You're deep in the throes of it, but you're also deeply into recovering. Give it time, you will get there and the wound eventually will lessen. I'm not FA, but I think the guy that I dated for seven months was and the end was also very unsatisfying. The closure is in him leaving and also some people never apologize. It could be that he is burying feelings and it will come up later, but maybe even if they do come up- it doesn't mean he'll ever apologize to you or give you that meaningful, empathetic ciosure/explanation/apology that you want. Some people are incapable of it. Some people are too ashamed to apologize. Some people think that after time it's pointless or too late. Some people are afraid. And some people, unfortunately, don't know how to mentalize properly and understand why someone needs an apology. It's incredibly sad and infuriating I know- to invest time and love into someone and in moments see how incredibly invested they are and then just nothing. It's hard to wrap around when your heart can hold so much, but that's why closure is on us. To heal ourselves regardless of what the other person is doing/thinking/feeling. We can't wait around that. Also, as alexandra said - you weren't getting your needs met. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if someone is FA or if someone is of another attachment style not meeting your needs. You deserve the consistent intimacy you give and don't need to compromise so much for it. Thank you for reading my other post! I know it was super long. Yeah, I know him well enough to know that he won’t ever apologize. He’s had so many burned relationships just in the time he and I have dated (friends, roommates, employers, his own daughter!) and with every single one that he’s told me about, he’s always the victim and it was always their fault. I don’t expect him to be different with me. It’s going to be MY fault no matter what. I am just more and more curious if what the FA SAYS and what he actually FEELS are different. Thank you for your support! |
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Post by unluckyinlove on Jan 17, 2019 0:17:15 GMT
@unluckyinlove I'm FA, although I'm probably more self-aware and in control of my actions than many of the FA people who spur their confused exes to make posts on these forums, so keep in mind that that may affect my insights in that what I'd be thinking or doing in this situation may be very different from what your ex thinks/does. I have dated multiple men who were much more strongly FA than me though and were the type to do what you describe your ex doing, so I know a thing or two about them. What exactly made you ask if he was still attracted to you? Did you say more than that? If it was something that minor that proceeded him running in terror then I feel like he was already looking for any excuse to jump ship (which is common). His reaction was extreme. An FA person may (subconsciously) look for excuses to start a fight or find reasons it can't work or that you aren't The One. That is not your fault. It's a way to prevent closeness because closeness feels unsafe. As for closure, it sounds like you are hoping to know if he is thinking about you and regretting running away from you. No one can know, but the sad reality is that it is possible that he has successfully buried his feelings. You may never know. I totally understand that strong desire to know, but you can't. It's like if only you knew that he felt bad and missed you it would prove something about your value, right? Assume he has no understanding about how he feels about you or why he does what he does. What helped me find closure was understanding attachment theory and realizing that it says nothing about my worth if a man flees from me, and doesn't mean he never had feelings for me. But it means he is not a suitable partner. And it helped me to give up any hope that the person is ever coming back and to fully let go of any notion of getting answers from him. I hope you're ok. Thank you for your insight and I appreciate your reply. Why did I ask if he was attracted to me? I should preface by saying that we were drinking A LOT of whiskey that night. Since we had been back together, we picked right back up on the friendship connection, but I wasn’t feeling the romantic one. He had told me both BUs that he only cared as a friend but then when he returned he told me he really loved me..…so in my mind.....which is it? He had stopped telling me he loved me (not that he said it much to begin with). It was also the week of Thanksgiving and I found out he was driving 3 hours out of town to see his family and hadn’t even mentioned it, nor invited me. He had been preoccupied with work and other life stuff and he hadn’t touched me physically in a month and a half. So…I asked him if he was attracted to me. He didn’t answer so I asked again about 10 minutes later and he said I was making him feel uncomfortable. So my liquid courage kicked in and I asked why he couldn’t answer the question? I told him we’d been dating almost 3 years.....we were still spending holidays separately, he hadn’t touched me in a month and a half and he’s stopped telling me he loved me…what was I supposed to think? Then I said I couldn’t just “shut up and be happy” (which is what pissed him off and sent him out the door). I know I came at him wrong and I totally understand his defensiveness but I apologized to him via text and asked him to let me know when we could talk. He only said that we had nothing more to talk about. I don’t think he was looking for a reason to leave again….he even admitted in texts that he thought everything was cool and I just hit him with this…..so his reaction was definitely just an impulse to run. He had even told me the last time he came back that he would never breakup with me again….he was in it to stay (so he just left this time....man of his word I guess!). It is tough to think that he’s buried his feelings for me. I have an email I read on occasion just to try to bring myself some comfort. He sent it to me about a month after the first BU (that had only been 6 mo prior….how much can feelings really change?). In that email, he rambles on and on about how much he missed and adored me and how he knows I think it was easy for him to walk away but it wasn’t (he had broken up on impulse that time as well). He goes on to tell me how lucky he was to have someone who looked past all his faults and baggage and stood by his side. He said he wished he could be all of the things I needed and he felt like he lost his best friend. He apologized for being so numb and rambled on about how beautiful and smart and funny and etc I was. He came back two days after he sent that email. I totally get what you are saying that he might have buried his feelings, but I also thought that back then and he proved otherwise. So IDK what he’s thinking now and I just wish I knew it was the same as he felt then. I do know that you are right about me having to look at it differently as us just not being right for each other. It’s just hard because it FELT so right….more so than anyone else I’ve ever dated. |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 17, 2019 0:57:08 GMT
I only discovered the FA attachment style after this last BU. I wish I had realized it sooner but as you said, I can’t put my needs on hold and it still doesn’t excuse his outright temper tantrum and his REFUSAL to even discuss it no matter how I try to approach. I realize now that although wrong on her part, there is strong evidence that his wife had the affairs because she felt neglected and ignored in the relationship. His issues were there prior to his marriage. It all makes sense now, but it’s frustrating that knowledge is hindsight….and I already fell in love with him. I did this too. Twice. The first time, the guy was a year out from a divorce so I thought it was that and he just needed some time. They split amicably, but it eventually sounded like he was avoidant and neglecting her and she was anxious. The second time, the guy was a fair bit younger than me and I thought it was a maturity difference and he just needed some time. Nope... and I blamed myself both times, until I figured out FA, so I think you can see the theme here. I'm glad you recognize that he's treated other people this way so he was bound to eventually do it to you, too. It wasn't what you did. In my opinion, once the anxiety-related physical attraction goes with these guys, they're no longer hopped up on enough hormones (or anxious triggers) to override their fear. It's what happened to me as well. Just because someone is secure doesn't mean they don't have any anxious or avoidant tendencies, of course. But 3 years is a long time to tolerate this, so my suggestion is this. Dating someone severely insecurely attached can push a secure into an insecure space, and time and distance plus not dating an FA styled person again in the future will probably allow your anxious side to calm down back to normal eventually. But if you can really explore where in youself that anxiety was coming from and why that was your response to his inconsistent behavior (holding it in until you emotionally burst instead of drawing boundaries), it may help you understand this narrative better. Not just understanding his behavior, but making sense of your responses so that you can accept that it's okay you did what you did, as you did the best you could in difficult circumstances, and figuring out what useful information those responses were telling you about youself that you can use in the future. |
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Post by unluckyinlove on Jan 17, 2019 2:12:40 GMT
I only discovered the FA attachment style after this last BU. I wish I had realized it sooner but as you said, I can’t put my needs on hold and it still doesn’t excuse his outright temper tantrum and his REFUSAL to even discuss it no matter how I try to approach. I realize now that although wrong on her part, there is strong evidence that his wife had the affairs because she felt neglected and ignored in the relationship. His issues were there prior to his marriage. It all makes sense now, but it’s frustrating that knowledge is hindsight….and I already fell in love with him. I did this too. Twice. The first time, the guy was a year out from a divorce so I thought it was that and he just needed some time. They split amicably, but it eventually sounded like he was avoidant and neglecting her and she was anxious. The second time, the guy was a fair bit younger than me and I thought it was a maturity difference and he just needed some time. Nope... and I blamed myself both times, until I figured out FA, so I think you can see the theme here. I'm glad you recognize that he's treated other people this way so he was bound to eventually do it to you, too. It wasn't what you did. In my opinion, once the anxiety-related physical attraction goes with these guys, they're no longer hopped up on enough hormones (or anxious triggers) to override their fear. It's what happened to me as well. Just because someone is secure doesn't mean they don't have any anxious or avoidant tendencies, of course. But 3 years is a long time to tolerate this, so my suggestion is this. Dating someone severely insecurely attached can push a secure into an insecure space, and time and distance plus not dating an FA styled person again in the future will probably allow your anxious side to calm down back to normal eventually. But if you can really explore where in youself that anxiety was coming from and why that was your response to his inconsistent behavior (holding it in until you emotionally burst instead of drawing boundaries), it may help you understand this narrative better. Not just understanding his behavior, but making sense of your responses so that you can accept that it's okay you did what you did, as you did the best you could in difficult circumstances, and figuring out what useful information those responses were telling you about youself that you can use in the future. Agree completely. I do believe the anxious in me has been nurtured and presented itself in this relationship. Now that I’m aware of all of this I’m hopeful for future changes in my relationship patterns. Now I wish someone could help me explain to my dog that he’s not coming back. It breaks my heart that she sits in the window every night watching for him. Ugh. |
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Post by 8675309 on Jan 17, 2019 15:36:45 GMT
"Just because someone is secure doesn't mean they don't have any anxious or avoidant tendencies"
Truth. As most of you know my guy pushed me to that place before I understood attachment. I couldn't stand that anxiousness/out of my element and taking the test I do have some avoidance. I see it now after life reflection.
Funny I talked to my mom recently about my guy and told her about this attachment thing, told her about my own attachment and how he made me anxious before I understood attachment. She was like you? Anxious?!? She knows Im not. She can see how I would have some avoidance though. My avoidance didn't develop early child hood, I was given that secure base. It was as I got a bit older.
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Post by mrob on Jan 17, 2019 22:22:04 GMT
Absolutely. That’s my first marriage. I was young and I character assassinated her everywhere I could post breakup, but ultimately, this is it. She was lonely and my best mate was around.
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Post by unluckyinlove on Jan 18, 2019 6:37:33 GMT
Absolutely. That’s my first marriage. I was young and I character assassinated her everywhere I could post breakup, but ultimately, this is it. She was lonely and my best mate was around. Ouch. Sorry you had to experience that. If you’re admitting that is what happened in your own situation then I’m guessing it is possible then that my guy sees the truth and knows deep down that he sabotaged a good thing. Regardless, I had a good night. Went to a benefit for a friend that has cancer and saw a bunch of mutual friends. A couple of men that I love and respect very much as friends told me some things I didn’t know (why do you always find out after the fact?!). My guy has had other instances before of running out. Didn’t give me validation that he really loves me but gave me a new perspective that maybe he isn’t the man I thought he was. I feel like this is a great move toward healing for me. |
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Post by mrob on Jan 19, 2019 0:26:53 GMT
I can admit that after 20 years, a ton of therapy and finally finding this. I knew I was insecure then, and I knew I wasn’t doing enough, but No way of putting the two together.
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Post by happyidiot on Jan 19, 2019 0:42:47 GMT
Thank you for your insight and I appreciate your reply. Why did I ask if he was attracted to me? I should preface by saying that we were drinking A LOT of whiskey that night. Since we had been back together, we picked right back up on the friendship connection, but I wasn’t feeling the romantic one. He had told me both BUs that he only cared as a friend but then when he returned he told me he really loved me..…so in my mind.....which is it? He had stopped telling me he loved me (not that he said it much to begin with). It was also the week of Thanksgiving and I found out he was driving 3 hours out of town to see his family and hadn’t even mentioned it, nor invited me. He had been preoccupied with work and other life stuff and he hadn’t touched me physically in a month and a half. So…I asked him if he was attracted to me. He didn’t answer so I asked again about 10 minutes later and he said I was making him feel uncomfortable. So my liquid courage kicked in and I asked why he couldn’t answer the question? I told him we’d been dating almost 3 years.....we were still spending holidays separately, he hadn’t touched me in a month and a half and he’s stopped telling me he loved me…what was I supposed to think? Then I said I couldn’t just “shut up and be happy” (which is what pissed him off and sent him out the door). I know I came at him wrong and I totally understand his defensiveness but I apologized to him via text and asked him to let me know when we could talk. He only said that we had nothing more to talk about. I don’t think he was looking for a reason to leave again….he even admitted in texts that he thought everything was cool and I just hit him with this…..so his reaction was definitely just an impulse to run. He had even told me the last time he came back that he would never breakup with me again….he was in it to stay (so he just left this time....man of his word I guess!). It is tough to think that he’s buried his feelings for me. I have an email I read on occasion just to try to bring myself some comfort. He sent it to me about a month after the first BU (that had only been 6 mo prior….how much can feelings really change?). In that email, he rambles on and on about how much he missed and adored me and how he knows I think it was easy for him to walk away but it wasn’t (he had broken up on impulse that time as well). He goes on to tell me how lucky he was to have someone who looked past all his faults and baggage and stood by his side. He said he wished he could be all of the things I needed and he felt like he lost his best friend. He apologized for being so numb and rambled on about how beautiful and smart and funny and etc I was. He came back two days after he sent that email. I totally get what you are saying that he might have buried his feelings, but I also thought that back then and he proved otherwise. So IDK what he’s thinking now and I just wish I knew it was the same as he felt then. I do know that you are right about me having to look at it differently as us just not being right for each other. It’s just hard because it FELT so right….more so than anyone else I’ve ever dated. I totally understand the longing to have that validation, to know if someone who has left you loves you or is aware that they love you. Like it would be some consolation, even if he's not coming back. Sadly you can't know. One thing that helped me is thinking that those feelings you shared were real and that he meant things that he said at the time, and whether or not he has now buried his feelings is not a statement about your worth and doesn't mean that none of it was real. If he now isn't aware of his feelings it is just a self-protection mechanism, one that he learned long before you even met. Regardless, he is not able to be a good partner to you, all your feelings that it was so right do nothing to overcome his barriers. He is not right for you, because of his unavailability. Sometimes someone who feels very "right" is there to teach us and help us grow, as opposed to good material for a lasting relationship. |
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