|
Post by toorational on Feb 21, 2019 12:20:53 GMT
I starting reading the book Wired for Love by Stan Tatkin, which is another book about attachment. I've only read the first chapter so far but one of the center piece of his advice it to create a so-called couple bubble. I'm wondering what DAs feel about this bubble. When I explained this concept to my own DA girlfriend, I immediately sensed some resistance. She was quick to say that it's very important for each of us to have our own independence as well. Here's an excerpt from the book that explains what the bubble is: There's a free preview of that first chapter here as well: stantatkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Wired-for-Love-Extended-Preview1.pdfSo did any of you successfully implement the couple bubble?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 12:52:12 GMT
I starting reading the book Wired for Love by Stan Tatkin, which is another book about attachment. I've only read the first chapter so far but one of the center piece of his advice it to create a so-called couple bubble. I'm wondering what DAs feel about this bubble. When I explained this concept to my own DA girlfriend, I immediately sensed some resistance. She was quick to say that it's very important for each of us to have our own independence as well. Here's an excerpt from the book that explains what the bubble is: There's a free preview of that first chapter here as well: stantatkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Wired-for-Love-Extended-Preview1.pdfSo did any of you successfully implement the couple bubble? I am DA with a lot of progress toward emotional security (but a way to go!) and I love this, but it's because I'm aware and working and not shut down. Prior to awareness and a bunch of work this would have been very off putting for me. It's against everything a DA is conditioned and wired for. It's only possible to get to this and embrace it if you've done a lot of work as a DA, I believe. For the other types it may very well fit the ideal they have always had, maybe fully for AP and partially for FA. I don't know about how FA would see this but it seems they have more couple capacity than DA, until they don't. For a DA in their trance this is against the grain many ways, unfortunately. I'm talking about the parts that entail interdependency, and putting the relationship first. DA are not comfortable relying on anyone else and are always ready to take care of themselves because someone else is bound to fail them or limit their independence.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 13:26:49 GMT
To me it doesn't sound healthy nor realistic in practice. At all. In a hermetic bubble? Sure... But there's a real life, and real people that interfere. It seems good willed but nothing of this can be guaranteed - especially in a long term, thus they're empty promises you'll make to each other. I can imagine it can create even more issues when one person pulls the "but you promised" card.
For example "“I will never leave you.” how can you guarantee that? Why should you? If anything it should be "I'll never abandon you", "I'll never leave without talking to you first/ making an effort to work things out"
“When you are in distress, I will relieve you, even if I’m the one who is causing the distress.” What if you can't relieve them because you don't know how, or simply you're lacking on your own? What if both of you are in distress, which in real life will happen, and you can't see or help the other?
Why not simply acknowledge that we all make mistakes, that we all are flawed humans, that as a couple we have the same objectives. Imho, promises that should be made are: to care, to respect, to take responsibility, to try to understand your partner.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 15:41:06 GMT
To me it doesn't sound healthy nor realistic in practice. At all. In a hermetic bubble? Sure... But there's a real life, and real people that interfere. It seems good willed but nothing of this can be guaranteed - especially in a long term, thus they're empty promises you'll make to each other. I can imagine it can create even more issues when one person pulls the "but you promised" card. For example "“I will never leave you.” how can you guarantee that? Why should you? If anything it should be "I'll never abandon you", "I'll never leave without talking to you first/ making an effort to work things out" “When you are in distress, I will relieve you, even if I’m the one who is causing the distress.” What if you can't relieve them because you don't know how, or simply you're lacking on your own? What if both of you are in distress, which in real life will happen, and you can't see or help the other? Why not simply acknowledge that we all make mistakes, that we all are flawed humans, that as a couple we have the same objectives. Imho, promises that should be made are: to care, to respect, to take responsibility, to try to understand your partner. This is EXACTLY what my thought process was in the past. The very idea of these kinds of statements gave me hives. I see the value of it now, and view it as a set of agreements custom tailored to the needs of the individuals involved. It involves emotional intimacy in terms of recognizing the vulnerabilities and needs of each person for security and commitment. These statements could vary, depending on the partners. The point is, to commit to the security of the relationship. This takes a certain degree of security in the individual. I am much more ready for these kinds of agreements but I would have walked clean away from it had someone suggested it to me in the last. I would have been just glad to get that crap off my radar, actually. It was totally against my nature to think this way. Not that I would intentionally hurt people, etc. But this kind of interdependence just was stifling and ridiculous to me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 16:36:05 GMT
Absolutely agree with nullified. To add on, it can be unhealthy to have these statements if you’re in an unhealthy mindset to begin with. But assuming both are secure and committed, these statements are actually important in explicating that commitment to creating security in relationships. Healthy adults are aware that things change and these statements are meant to demonstrate commitment right now and in the foreseeable future with no intent to change unless absolutely necessary. I don’t think anyone in their right mind truly takes it literally that NEVER really means NEVER EVER EVER. One thing that used to trigger me is when my exes will use caveats in their commitment declarations - I know it because I have used them myself in rships that I was DA myself in, with no real intention to commit truly. Erps.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 16:49:53 GMT
To me it doesn't sound healthy nor realistic in practice. At all. In a hermetic bubble? Sure... But there's a real life, and real people that interfere. It seems good willed but nothing of this can be guaranteed - especially in a long term, thus they're empty promises you'll make to each other. I can imagine it can create even more issues when one person pulls the "but you promised" card. For example "“I will never leave you.” how can you guarantee that? Why should you? If anything it should be "I'll never abandon you", "I'll never leave without talking to you first/ making an effort to work things out" “When you are in distress, I will relieve you, even if I’m the one who is causing the distress.” What if you can't relieve them because you don't know how, or simply you're lacking on your own? What if both of you are in distress, which in real life will happen, and you can't see or help the other? Why not simply acknowledge that we all make mistakes, that we all are flawed humans, that as a couple we have the same objectives. Imho, promises that should be made are: to care, to respect, to take responsibility, to try to understand your partner. This is EXACTLY what my thought process was in the past. The very idea of these kinds of statements gave me hives. I see the value of it now, and view it as a set of agreements custom tailored to the needs of the individuals involved. It involves emotional intimacy in terms of recognizing the vulnerabilities and needs of each person for security and commitment. These statements could vary, depending on the partners. The point is, to commit to the security of the relationship. This takes a certain degree of security in the individual. I am much more ready for these kinds of agreements but I would have walked clean away from it had someone suggested it to me in the last. I would have been just glad to get that crap off my radar, actually. It was totally against my nature to think this way. Not that I would intentionally hurt people, etc. But this kind of interdependence just was stifling and ridiculous to me. I don't think this has anything to do with my insecure attachment but rather a world view. I pointed out it's rather unrealistic than an attempt to high-jack one's independence. It does sound like a BUBBLE to me, an unrealistic one.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 16:51:16 GMT
This is EXACTLY what my thought process was in the past. The very idea of these kinds of statements gave me hives. I see the value of it now, and view it as a set of agreements custom tailored to the needs of the individuals involved. It involves emotional intimacy in terms of recognizing the vulnerabilities and needs of each person for security and commitment. These statements could vary, depending on the partners. The point is, to commit to the security of the relationship. This takes a certain degree of security in the individual. I am much more ready for these kinds of agreements but I would have walked clean away from it had someone suggested it to me in the last. I would have been just glad to get that crap off my radar, actually. It was totally against my nature to think this way. Not that I would intentionally hurt people, etc. But this kind of interdependence just was stifling and ridiculous to me. I don't think this has anything to do with my insecure attachment but rather a world view. I wasn't correcting you, I was only remarking that your sentiments match mine previously. What it means is up to you, just marveling at how you articulated my past world view so perfectly.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 16:51:51 GMT
Absolutely agree with nullified. To add on, it can be unhealthy to have these statements if you’re in an unhealthy mindset to begin with. But assuming both are secure and committed, these statements are actually important in explicating that commitment to creating security in relationships. Healthy adults are aware that things change and these statements are meant to demonstrate commitment right now and in the foreseeable future with no intent to change unless absolutely necessary. I don’t think anyone in their right mind truly takes it literally that NEVER really means NEVER EVER EVER. One thing that used to trigger me is when my exes will use caveats in their commitment declarations - I know it because I have used them myself in rships that I was DA myself in, with no real intention to commit truly. Erps. Well said, I concur!
|
|
|
Post by toorational on Feb 21, 2019 17:31:51 GMT
nullified, I'm curious, what did your evolution from DA to more secure look like? What helped you along the way? I first and foremost want to improve my AP tendencies, and I know it's a slippery slope to want to change my DA girlfriend to be more secure, but I'm interested in your journey nonetheless.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 18:51:19 GMT
nullified, I'm curious, what did your evolution from DA to more secure look like? What helped you along the way? I first and foremost want to improve my AP tendencies, and I know it's a slippery slope to want to change my DA girlfriend to be more secure, but I'm interested in your journey nonetheless. It has been a long and painful road over years. I've employed therapy of different kinds, trauma, inner child work, a little attachment therapy but I have had a hard time finding a great therapist for that. Some philosophy, lots of meditation practices, and building good female relationships. I've had twelve step work and abstained from addictions, and come to understand and know myself better with age as well. Just a whole mixed bag. I would discourage you from undertaking any kind of effort to transform a partner who is not aware, willing, seeking answers for themselves. Focus on you, would be my recommendation.
|
|
|
Post by toorational on Feb 21, 2019 19:08:41 GMT
I will try to heed your advice. She knows I'm reading that book and she was the one that asked questions about it. But as she seems put-off by the couple bubble idea, I won't try to impose this on her. I'll try to keep our discussions about the book low-pressure (i.e. not expecting her to change or take the book as gospel).
We both know that the AP and DA pairing is the main challenge in our relationship and we both want to find solutions to that because we want a future together. She often talks about retiring together (we're in our early 40s) so she has no trouble with commitment. I'm fairly hopeful that we can make it work but at this point I'm the only one actively seeking solutions. She is willing to make adjustments though and has done so in the past already. She's putting a bit more effort to stay in contact when we're not together (which is most of the time since we're a LAT couple).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 20:07:25 GMT
I will try to heed your advice. She knows I'm reading that book and she was the one that asked questions about it. But as she seems put-off by the couple bubble idea, I won't try to impose this on her. I'll try to keep our discussions about the book low-pressure (i.e. not expecting her to change or take the book as gospel). We both know that the AP and DA pairing is the main challenge in our relationship and we both want to find solutions to that because we want a future together. She often talks about retiring together (we're in our early 40s) so she has no trouble with commitment. I'm fairly hopeful that we can make it work but at this point I'm the only one actively seeking solutions. She is willing to make adjustments though and has done so in the past already. She's putting a bit more effort to stay in contact when we're not together (which is most of the time since we're a LAT couple). There is a great video on here somewhere that addresses the needs of a DA in a relationship. I think faithopelove posted it, somewhere in the DA section. I thought it was AMAZING.
|
|
|
Post by toorational on Feb 21, 2019 20:15:38 GMT
Thanks, I'll try to find that. You make me realize that I really need to ask my partner what her needs are in this relationship. I've expressed my needs a lot but since she is more private with her emotions, I'm not sure I gave her the opportunity to fully express her needs. At the same time, I don't want to feel invading by probing deep inside of her. She's told me in the past that she already shared her feelings and emotions more with me than any partner in the past. I need to respect the speed at which she's willing to share things.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 20:45:27 GMT
It's the thread called DA Resources. Also, she may say that she is fine and doesn't need anything. It's very hard to articulate needs in a relationship when you're DA, as it is hard to know what they are, or believe they are valid or will be taken seriously. But yes, that's great to ask about them and also, watch what makes her happy and relaxed. Chances are, she's demonstrated her priorities and what she craves. I'm not saying, read her mind, or that it's your job to do that. I think it's healthy for a person to be able to be in touch with themselves and know what they need and how to advocate for that. But that's the challenge. If she isn't there and you want to know, observe her in her natural habitat
|
|
|
Post by toorational on Feb 21, 2019 21:10:35 GMT
One big thing as I mentioned in my other thread is that she absolutely doesn't want to feel pressure in the relationship. No pressure to have sex. No pressure to spend time together. It turns her off big time. I've improved on that and let her initiate more and it's working quite well. We are spending less time together than I'd like but it's always good times. Same for sex.
Thanks for the pointer for the videos, I'll definitely watch them.
|
|