Avoidants: Are you a caretaker?

Maybe you could start a thread about being a securely attached in a relationship with a DA and seek advice on how to give more to him? Perhaps someone has some good advice for you on that.

I'm a DA looking specifically for insight on healing the pattern of overgiving as it relates to the attachment style conditioning. There is one other DA on the forum that has experience with this (she doesn't seem to be at a point in her awareness and healing to have difficulty receiving either), but I've been able to get some helpful feedback with objective information on the possible root causes.

I wish you the best in being able to give more, though. He sounds as if he is not able to receive easily, but that is not really in line with where the other DA and I are at with this issues and I don't know how to respond other than to wish you the best with it. It sounds like a stand alone topic for secures.

I'm hoping the thread won't get sidetracked by partner accounts of how hard it is to give, as there is so little available support for the issue I have presented for discussion and very little DA interaction here on the forum. I could see where you might be trying to be helpful but I don't relate to having difficulty receiving at this point and I also don't have any advice for your situation of a casual relationship and the give and take dilemma for a secure.

Thanks, I can see what you're saying stayhappy. However, even with an aside on interdependence and receiving, there is an issue with the other side of the line. Specifically I am looking at the giving end. I know you say you're secure and you're sharing about a give/take dilemma with a DA, but when I look at the broad view of your situation I see a young DA male who isn't interested in a long term relationship and the current agreement is that you will be dating others. In that case, there would definitely be an aversion to receiving, and I agree with you that guilt is probably a big factor. Receiving in a casual relationship from women who want a serious relationship but are settling for casual, is something I have seen DA men have conflict about. This is because they know that there is a level of give and take that is expected in a committed relationship and they need to keep a line between what they are doing and what is ultimately desired. Of course, this resistance to receiving continues even in more serious relationships until one addresses the barriers to interdependence. That fear of depending on others or needing others is strong because we all need others but DA were not able to rely on caregivers when they were truly dependent and were forced to gain premature independence to take care of themselves. Sometimes, in the case of ebmeshment, that responsibility extends to taking care of others and I think that is most influential in my case. I'm taking a good hard look at enmeshment as a form of abandonment and how that factors in for me, in this whole mess.

Ocarina and I both have experience with partners who give initially , which we like! And then the giving dries up, which we don't like. So as you say it's not really applicable, although receiving is one side of the interdependence coin that I've definitely made a lot of progress in. In fact, an awareness of and expectation for interdependence and balance is what caused me to leave my last partner who was unable to show up and be consistent in a healthy way.

That said, there is something specifically about overgiving that I am seeing come from high demand and the typical conditioning of a DA child being expected to gain independence and take on an unusual burden of responsibility from a very young age. I'm not currently in an overgoving capacty because I ended the dynamic which was unhealthy, and I'm just trying to delve deeper into that so I appreciate your input in that regard.

I have a well developed capacity to receive and be interdependent and that's why the last relationship didn't cut it for me. I and am trying to suss out the nuances of my own internal dynamic so I don't end up in imbalance, either with giving or receiving. I would absolutely love to be a part of a team where the giving I do is reciprocated and I have had that in some areas, but obviously still am finding my way. It's a long road. But for me, the problem isn't an inability to receive it is giving to partners who don't reciprocate on either an emotional or practical level, consistently. It's hardwired in me to protect and provide. I'm working on taking that down a notch lol.

Im not AP or avoidant.(though I do have a chunk of DA in my attachment)

I am a natural giver though. Many secures are, ones that I know anyways. Also being a female, we are just more giving naturally in general usually.(not to say men are not but hope the point is received here haha) I am secure in myself and I am totally my sun sign, the glass is half full, go in in trusting, always see the good in people, can give without a return pay it forward type.

ocarina this is not the article specifically about DA attachment and overgiving, but it there is a good description of a couple of facets of my upbringing. My therapists have said that being an emotionally sensitive child likely contributed to my shutting down the way I did in the toxic environment of my home. We also were poor and the section in here about undersourced parents mentions an outcome of overgiving and finding partners who take more than they give. I don't know if emotional sensitivity is a factor in your makeup, but sensitive kids respond in their respective ways more intensely, whether they go to hyper-or hypo-arousal. I know that a lot of DA are deeply emotionally sensitive people and the emotional over regulation of deactivation protects and conceals that.

Anyway, it a good read if it applies.

medium.com/@imilo/invisible-wounds-of-the-sensitive-empathic-and-emotionally-intense-child-357a938660d2

And tfw last short word.... I think so many of us feel in some way broken whilst in reality we are all travelers on a journey- there’s no goal here rather a willingness to embrace the process wherever we are st and whatever life throws at us.

I hesitate to add to this thread because I self-identified and came on the board as AP based on my most recent relationship to make sense of the state I was in.

However, I might actually be DA/FA in general (but always thought the avoidant part as the norm), and am firmly DA when it comes to my parents whom I don't talk much about here. The pain is much deeper and recessed in me, compared to the AP craziness I experienced. the AP craziness was very much more physical and salient, while the DA side of me is very much more cool and well, dismissed. this is the first time i'm talking about them, so it might be disjointed because i haven't fully processed it myself.

For context, in my familial relationship, there's an overly high level of enmeshment with my mum (anxious) and an overly high level of distance with my dad (avoidant). Aside from my individual relationships with them, I'm often the bridge that holds them together. For example, my mum will use me as a reason to set up her own business (i.e., it's for her financial freedom in the future) to combat my dad's resistance to her plans. My name is often used for legal purposes in her extracurricular business dealings, because she cannot use hers for employment reasons. I often say yes because otherwise she cannot move forth in her plans, but it has led to other "yesses" that I'm alot less comfortable with which subsequently came with financial losses. i agree with ocarina that I tried to do the right things when it comes to my parents, being there for them and doing things that I know they want from me, but really not getting reciprocated at all. it becomes even more frustrating because of the inherent power dynamic between parent-child that prevents me from being on equal footing with them - made worse by an asian background.

i feel like i overgive in terms of family although i believe it is not perceived as that. like what ocarina said, I believed my upbringing was normal because there is no overt abuse but there was a complete lack of give and take all around because there was never genuine conversations based on emotional and needs sharing. I believe my parents think they also overgave, but it's all based on unspoken assumptions of what those needs are, and then blinding giving but resenting it because no-one was taking it or that someone had to take it and fake appreciation. This is a trivial example, when I went on exchange, my mum packed my luggage for me and wanted me to bring many things she was afraid I would need. when i resisted because i knew I wouldn't use them, she would get upset and say things like i don't know how to take care of myself and don't come crying to me when you need it. so in my child's mind, i would give way because i felt like she was just worried and wanted the best for me, and so i should accept that and give appreciation for how much concern she has for me. the result was that i couldn't lift the luggage myself when I was alone, and basically struggled all the way in a foreign country with a luggage full of things i didn't need. Till this day, i never let her touch my luggage and i would pack only 1 luggage that I can lift with one hand. if i couldn't, i wouldn't bring it.

When i was growing up, both parents were absent mostly, emotionally and physically, and I dissociated quite alot through daydreaming, fantasies, and reading - all of which I still do. But in my reality, I always had to hold it together for them because my emoting will make them upset. i wasn't allowed to cry or be excited or be happy, and if I did, it'll be met with annoyance. the only thing they had some tolerance for was when i was annoyed/angry. then it'll be dismissed as "my problems are trivial". I took a double degree because my mum wanted me to do finance but i was kind of crappy at it, so i did economics (to make her happy) and arts (to make me happy). in the recent months, there was an episode where she kept insisting on visiting me (i live overseas) and my refusals were ignored repeatedly i.e., pretending not to hear it. I was highly confused at the conversations because I thought I had already made myself known. This was when I realized that so many of my problems and insecurities stem from this - an ignoring of my boundaries despite me stating it. then i confuse myself because I thought that I didn't state it clearly enough so people didn't hear it, but really, they just choose not to hear it because we're actually not really having a genuine conversation between two souls.

till this day, i feel like i overgive in terms of emotional generosity towards others i.e., giving other pp alot more benefit of the doubt when treated poorly. i consider the other party's emotional state first and then take that into account for my evaluation of the situation so i first provide care to them, before myself. This was also why I ended up with some terrible relationships where i "understood" too much the other person's unavailability/behavior, and then ended up taking too much of a hit myself. in my early days with my exDA, this was also what happened, till he deactivated too hard and i snapped into AP. I would actually give more to DAs than to APs, perhaps because I knew how being with an AP is like and I just avoided engaging with them too much. I knew how to handle my dad better who while he didn't give me anything also didn't take anything away from me - perhaps that's why i like DA men??

lastly, I don't really believe it when people are nice to me because I just have no idea why they are and what they want from me. when my mum has "conversations" with me, it usually is because she needed something from me and wanted me to do something for her i.e., used my name for something. if she asked me if I'm free, it's not because she wanted to spend time with me but there's some event she wants me to attend even though I cbf to do it. if i said no, her response was that I wasn't doing anything else productive anyways so why am i being so difficult. in this case, i would give in because i know she wants me to go there for my own benefit or for her own goals, and that attending it wouldn't hurt me anyways, and i would acquiesce to it.

thanks @nullified for the article. I identified with everything it talked about. regarding my parents, my solution was just to fuck it and move away for my own career's sake (I had initially limited my geographical choices based on their wishes and worries, justifying to myself that i also didn't want to go to those places). with regards to the episode of ignoring me, i called her out on it and said that she was insisting despite me saying no, and that I wasn't abandoning them. i just needed time for myself.

the one thing I do, is that I've never been attracted to an AP who is not situational, just chronically AP no matter who they're with. I find that I have alot of empathetic understanding but am not interested at all to get involved with them, because I can't really talk to them as people even when we're not in a relationship, much less when they get triggered. they don't really see me, right off the bat. It's impossible to have a reasonable conversation with them, and I find that boring. hence, when I was triggered into AP, I was quite disgusted with myself. there was alot of shame and reproach towards myself at how lame I could get - but i think the contrast effect made me see both sides of the situation, and highlighted how much needs to be done in a more holistic way to be truly centered and aligned.

I'm onboard with ocarina about asking myself "is this the life I want for myself" and about finding people whom you can truly relate to (hence my attempt at having difficult conversations). this requires me to be absolutely honest with myself and with others, and the need to be empathetic without rushing in to fill the gap (which I do alot in awkward situations).

OMG hola you sure were parentified. I was called in to help during conflict also- only when I was younger. They divorced when Ibwas 7 or so. They weren't really wanting me to solve things but they were childishly putting me in the middle to get me to take sides. A lot of pressure!!!

I've got super good boundaries with my family know but it makes me unpopular. OOOOPS. 😜 I'm a lot happier even if they have to find a new person to take crap out on. Drat. 😬😋