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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 15:04:35 GMT
Here's a good article that discusses hyper- and hypo- arousal and how to work with it to expand your window of tolerance for it - good read I thought. My issue is hypo- arousal, but not nearly as bad as it used to be. I didn't experience a lot of deactivation in my last relationship except for in the jarring moments that I have shared in other threads. I have experienced deactivation post-breakup though. I can feel it in response to an anxiety related to abandonment, and also from having gotten it "wrong". Logically I know that relationships serve to teach us about ourselves and give us opportunities to grow, but the pain of it triggers a feeling of having abandoned and endangered myself- which can trigger deactivation also. From what I understand, that threat of abandonment will kick an anxious person to hyperarousal and a dismissive to hypoarousal. The anxiety is present but manifests in opposite ways. Very unpleasant both ways, I'm sure. Anyway, it's a good read, for all types. The term "Wondow of Tolerance" can be searched for more information, also. www.goodtherapy.org/blog/psychpedia/window-of-tolerance |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 15:09:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 15:18:19 GMT
Also, for those who move into HYPER arousal with their DA partner and don't understand the withdrawal and inability to engage with the aroused energy in you, it's because of the dysregulation moving into hypoarousal going on in the DA. It's a very suppressing and exhausting mechanism, and when one feels tired and fatigued or numb the natural action is to retreat and emotionally and perhaps even physically, LAY DOWN in a quiet place. It takes longer to come out of hypoarousal than it does to come out of hyperarousal.
Hyperarousal has a feeling of anger and impatience and aggression which I believe most DA are very sensitive to and triggered by. So the "Trap" is more than an emotional one, it's a physiological one.
I'm just sharing that for information purposes, as I know there are not many DA here.
I'm curious about the FA experience of deactivation also, from a personal perspective. My experience is
trigger>brief anxiety >dysregulation(still an opportunity to repair) > hypoarousal (hibernation!)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 23:43:27 GMT
@nullified thanks for this excellent piece of information. as I mentioned in the other thread, I was mostly focused on the AP side of me because it's something I didn't understand in myself, and frankly, I'm probably more secure-DA with most people except when it comes to serious committed relationships with men i want to marry (twice). I think I've moved past the AP stage and am getting quite bored with being that - interestingly, especially after working up the courage to have that honest conversation with DA-friend. if anything, that also reduced my (physical) desire to reach out to my exDA.
I think I've always been in hypo-arousal mode more than hyper-arousal, based on these descriptions e.g., memory issues and dissociation. definitely so when it comes to stressful situations. this has often been picked up on by others and i was told that i was cold and clinical, but i should emote and be more passionate, and be more "human". I think about 10 years ago, I decided I should experience life like other people seem to be doing i.e., have and give in to emotions, be less rational and clinical, be more "human-like", like a social experiment. but I actually really never learnt how to do all of that growing up, and the past 10 years have been a roller coaster ride of experiencing emotions and giving my personal power away to those who abuse it, intentionally or unintentionally, and getting in hyper-arousal inducing situations. there is a lot to be said here about integrating the two contrasting experiences, and hopefully it'll lead to me a truly conscious, healthy, integrated, and aligned self.
my experience with deactivation in general is trigger > fear/anger > shut down (dysregulation) > hyper/hypoarousal.
> hyperarousal when I perceive I'm being made fun of, misunderstood, not heard, confused and not having information to make my own choices. when someone is being illogical or withholding information from me intentionally or unintentionally, it really makes me angry because of a loss of control and autonomy over my own situation.
> hypoarousal when I perceive i'm being shut out, demanded of things I'm not ready to give, when i'm confused, when i feel my safety is threatened, when i feel I cannot speak up either literally (words can't come out from my mouth) and figuratively (i don't know what to say). when i feel like my emotions have nowhere to go and will not be received, i retreat into myself and those emotions go into a void.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 0:51:32 GMT
@shiningstar, you're welcome! I thought it was just such a great way to present this information, especially the graphic. I am a visual person and when I saw this it really made an impact.
I can experience hyperactivation as well but really just with my family. I'm DA with my mother but worked to secure mostly with her and my sibs. But there was a very sick dynamic and I was the youngest and blamed and vilified heavily in an abusive dynamic. So I've had activation in confrontation with them, at times. But in intimate relationships I go hypo.
Anyway, I will be checking out more info on this and different exercises to help . I do like to meditate but I can't use that so much in deactivation because I go to sleep, go too far down into parasympathetic, it's self soothing with calm isolation and that's the last thing I need to heal deactivation lol. It helps me to physically move, to have body awareness and contact. Even a long hug or holding my hand would help me, but that's not always available to me. Actually massage helps also, it's deeply relaxing but it's contract and body aaareness. Contact with another human helps me. It's difficult to engage much if I'm shut down though. I'll see what those exercises are!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 1:25:37 GMT
oh, now that you mention it, I do remember that more active forms of yoga is very good for combatting deactivation and being very much more in your body. If you're hyper, do things like yin and hatha. if you're hypo, it's better to engage in more rigorous activities - vinyasa and power for example.
i think I chose not to go hypo in these committed relationships because i think if i do, the relationship would die even faster. if i go hypo, there's very little way out of it, and i didn't want that. i guess hyper isn't great either huh.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 2:00:58 GMT
oh, now that you mention it, I do remember that more active forms of yoga is very good for combatting deactivation and being very much more in your body. If you're hyper, do things like yin and hatha. if you're hypo, it's better to engage in more rigorous activities - vinyasa and power for example. i think I chose not to go hypo in these committed relationships because i think if i do, the relationship would die even faster. if i go hypo, there's very little way out of it, and i didn't want that. i guess hyper isn't great either huh. It isn't, lol. I think I would be destructive in hyper, if that was my automatic direction. I don't have a choice between hyper and hypo. I can only halt the hypo if I catch it in time. I have gone hyper in brief spurts right before shut down, once I'm at a safe distance. Gawd, what a mess, these things. It's gotten much better though. I've come a very long way. I still hate hypo when it happens to the full extent but that's rare and really just recently in response to the breakup even though I initiated it for my well being. It's just paralyzing. But it doesn't last as long or hit as hard. So, progress is all I am asking of myself. |
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Post by faithopelove on Mar 5, 2019 2:44:29 GMT
Here's a good article that discusses hyper- and hypo- arousal and how to work with it to expand your window of tolerance for it - good read I thought. My issue is hypo- arousal, but not nearly as bad as it used to be. I didn't experience a lot of deactivation in my last relationship except for in the jarring moments that I have shared in other threads. I have experienced deactivation post-breakup though. I can feel it in response to an anxiety related to abandonment, and also from having gotten it "wrong". Logically I know that relationships serve to teach us about ourselves and give us opportunities to grow, but the pain of it triggers a feeling of having abandoned and endangered myself- which can trigger deactivation also. From what I understand, that threat of abandonment will kick an anxious person to hyperarousal and a dismissive to hypoarousal. The anxiety is present but manifests in opposite ways. Very unpleasant both ways, I'm sure. Anyway, it's a good read, for all types. The term "Wondow of Tolerance" can be searched for more information, also. www.goodtherapy.org/blog/psychpedia/window-of-tolerance@nullified Thx for sharing- great read and visual for increased empathy for both sides!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 3:02:13 GMT
oh, now that you mention it, I do remember that more active forms of yoga is very good for combatting deactivation and being very much more in your body. If you're hyper, do things like yin and hatha. if you're hypo, it's better to engage in more rigorous activities - vinyasa and power for example. i think I chose not to go hypo in these committed relationships because i think if i do, the relationship would die even faster. if i go hypo, there's very little way out of it, and i didn't want that. i guess hyper isn't great either huh. It isn't, lol. I think I would be destructive in hyper, if that was my automatic direction. I don't have a choice between hyper and hypo. I can only halt the hypo if I catch it in time. I have gone hyper in brief spurts right before shut down, once I'm at a safe distance. Gawd, what a mess, these things. It's gotten much better though. I've come a very long way. I still hate hypo when it happens to the full extent but that's rare and really just recently in response to the breakup even though I initiated it for my well being. It's just paralyzing. But it doesn't last as long or hit as hard. So, progress is all I am asking of myself. now that I've been on the AP side for a while, it's definitely destructive, and loudly so because there's alot more explicit expression of emotion. however, I see how being DA is quietly destructive to well-being and relationships - it feels like covert abuse compared to the overt abuse of an AP. I use abuse loosely here, don't get into a knot everyone. for me, I think the focus should be how do you widen and stay in the window, and practicing that, rather than worry about being hyper/hypo, though I am trying to also develop strategies to deal with it when i'm heading there. I have no idea how to halt the hypo, because it literally feels like my body is wooden and dissociates into multiple pieces. it is a way for me to push out the overwhelming energies of other people, whom i can't (or don't know how to) tell that their energies are overwhelming. they aren't technically doing anything wrong besides just being themselves, and sometimes that energy level is too high for me. This doesn't apply only to APs, but to anyone who is just overly energetic in nature such that it's leaking out all over them is stressful for me when I'm caught unawares. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 3:07:17 GMT
Yes I'm not at all saying that deactivation isn't destructive to a relationship, but under fight mode in hyper I think I would make a mess of things lol.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 3:08:30 GMT
Yes I'm not at all saying that deactivation isn't destructive to a relationship, but under fight mode in hyper I think I would make a mess of things lol. haha as i did! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 3:13:19 GMT
Yes I'm not at all saying that deactivation isn't destructive to a relationship, but under fight mode in hyper I think I would make a mess of things lol. haha as i did! 😬Small blessings for being hypo? lol Not really. But! I do get supper chill and lay down for long periods of time. Rest is good. 😑😵 Naw, I can't make light of it, it's very isolating and when I am in it I cannot see my way out and feel somewhat hopeless and as though everything I loved was a mirage. I hate it. It all just sucks so bad. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 3:26:56 GMT
lol, now that I'm back to "normal" I really do have fleeting thoughts that being avoidant/hypo is just much easier, but it's also really boring and a waste of time on earth. The point of life is to experience the beauty of it, and by getting rid of the pain, you really can't see the beauty as well. the AP just sees all the beauty but feels all the pain without having the beauty and so is tripping all the time.
I think being hypo is great for me as an individual who just wants to get away from shit, but it's really destroying the structures of my life as well. it's focused on preserving the self, while AP is focused on preserving outside of the self (in order to preserve the self). DAs abandon the self through abandoning everyone else, while APs abandon everyone else by abandoning the self, but everyone thinks that they're giving so much to each other. that's how I feel thus far.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 3:31:54 GMT
lol, now that I'm back to "normal" I really do have fleeting thoughts that being avoidant/hypo is just much easier, but it's also really boring and a waste of time on earth. The point of life is to experience the beauty of it, and by getting rid of the pain, you really can't see the beauty as well. the AP just sees all the beauty but feels all the pain without having the beauty and so is tripping all the time. I think being hypo is great for me as an individual who just wants to get away from shit, but it's really destroying the structures of my life as well. it's focused on preserving the self, while AP is focused on preserving outside of the self (in order to preserve the self). DAs abandon the self through abandoning everyone else, while APs abandon everyone else by abandoning the self, but everyone thinks that they're giving so much to each other. that's how I feel thus far. I don't see it this way, I don't see being DA as easily getting away from stuff, nor do I see it as abandoning other people. It's losing MYSELF AND EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY. It's exceedingly sad. I'm not talking about being calm and chill, that's my personality generally. I'm taking about actual deactivation. It's not how you describe it at all, for me. It's crushing. Sometimes I can feel blissful in it but there is always the reckoning when you come to and feel, and realize you have lost time, people are hurting, you're hurting. It's not good. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 3:56:03 GMT
Might it be that you're aware and accepting of this and hence you understand and see how sad and crushing it actually is? When i was pretty unaware as a DA, my conscious process would be that deactivation is pleasing for me though hurtful for others, but if I prod it deeper, I think I feel the same way as you. which is also very scary so that gets pushed down even more. i absolutely agree with you that there is a sense of losing myself and my entire life... when i moved i had deactivated very hard from the family, and I was ready to cut everyone and everything out of my life and rebuild it all on my own, no matter how sad i was.
of course i don't ever intentionally abandon others when all i'm doing is trying to survive, but in hindsight, I think it can appear or be perceived that way. it feels like, for me, i'm dismantling the structures that connect me to life so that i can have respite as an individual (abandon others - everything and everyone) but really, those connections are a crucial part of me (abandon self). there is this need to "clear the weeds" that are holding me down and making me feel lost in all of them, and to find myself again and have a sense of presence/identity/being, i felt like i get rid of all the weeds that are engulfing me. it's not a great feeling because those are simply part of me rather than ropes that tie me down. perhaps i'm not putting this right in words, but i'm certainly not in no way saying that the DAs having an easy time dealing with their insecurities, and having a good time just because they deactivated. like i said before, the pain is very much more recessed in deeper layers, and so it is not as obvious when one is not ready nor willing to see into that part of self.
for me, i think all of it exploded at once when dealing with an AP mum and a DA ex when i moved alone overseas, because both my DA and AP respectively were so triggered at the same time and I was feeling so extreme. the AP was easier to deal with first because it's so LOUD. I experienced alot of grief when i realised that my relationship with my parents were actually fake and that we're really pretty screwed up and just pretending to be the perfect little family and I the perfect little girl. i think that was when i first explicitly dealt with the grief that comes along with the deactivation. not sure if that makes sense.
@nullified, when did you start noticing your avoidance and the deactivation?
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