ergo
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Post by ergo on Mar 12, 2019 16:53:49 GMT
I'll preface this post with noting that I read Jeb's book years ago, and started out life with mild but notable Fearful Avoidant attachment myself. After a lot of therapy, self-help and time with secure partners I moved towards secure and would now consider myself to be pretty secure without any behaviors or feelings reminiscent of problematic attachment.
My current partner is avoidant I believe, although we have never done a test and he might well be FA. Despite being well-read on this topic and watching all new partners very closely, it was covert in this case, and I didn't see it until we were 7 or 8 months into a very happy long-term relationship.
For the first six months, he behaved in ways that indicated secure attachment. He was consistent, happy with lots of time together, easy to make future plans with, volunteered to meet my parents, empathetic and it was just a very easy and comfortable relationship. The "red flags" so to speak reared their head around 7 or 8 months into the relationship where it became apparent that he was...
1/ Holding back emotionally (he'd never said "I love you" despite certainly acting as if he did and he kept sad things from me)
2/ Keeping me separate from certain elements of his life (his parents don't know I exist)
3/ Stressing boundaries, in terms of very rigid routines to make getting closer difficult
4/ Increasingly obsessing over hobbies so he had less time with me or was very tired
5/ Avoiding any kind of emotional conversation about himself (happy to have them about me)
6/ Voiced being "not ready" for our relationship (once we were already in it!!!!)
I'd stress all this was counter-balanced by being particularly loving, very available for me, very much the pursuer throughout and so I felt "loved" and connected until we'd been dating long enough for these behaviors to stand out to me as abnormal. For a very long period, I felt like we were on the same page and even now there are certain avoidant behaviors he just does not have. He doesn't go silent, he doesn't withdraw, he is always affectionate and wants sex, he is generally pretty present.
A frank discussion on the topic led to a confession that his childhood he'd described as happy and loving was actually rather neglectful and that his relationships since have been largely unhappy. He confessed he has emotional blocks on his feelings, fears of commitment and trouble even accessing his feelings; much less actually speaking to me about them.
The above conversation was tearful on both parts, but he expressed very strongly that the relationship meant a lot to him and he did not want to lose it. I'm aware how tough / painful these kinds of situations can be, and it shook me a lot (I felt I had met Mr Right) but I tried to persevere with discussing ways we can resolve whatever ambivalence he has over commitment and vulnerability so we can work through it as it seems we both want to.
We split up briefly for a couple of weeks, and both of us were completely miserable. He came back and seemed so sad and lost and I do feel he genuinely doesn't want to lose me but also feel completely exhausted from the "pushing away" behaviors that are hurtful and are sabotaging a really good relationship. At the suggestion of my therapist (who over years helped me heal my own attachment wounds) we decided to strip the relationship "back to basics" and just date and have fun with one another without pressure.
He jumped at the idea of this suggestion, and said he definitely wanted that, and for us to be exclusive and he seemed very happy and particularly loving towards me with talk of future plans and a really clear impression that he wanted to get past the fear he was experiencing to a lasting future with me. In a lot of ways, he is the perfect boyfriend!
However, I am currently really battling with this internally.
On the one hand, I completely believe him that this problem is fear based and he wants to overcome it. I also believe he is making an effort to do that.
On the other hand, I am experiencing behaviors that are plain hurtful at times and while it's not activating an anxiety or dismissing behaviors in me (thank God!), it's definitely making me feel sad as it would any person.
As an example, I have a holiday booked with a group of people that he was always invited on. He's neglected to answer me, so it looks like I am going without him. Which makes me sad. He didn't even give me a direct answer, he just avoided the topic completely. Then he will do what he always does and while I am away will talk about how much he misses me and wanted to come. And I am just so frustrated by this because both of us would be happier if he came because it's going to be an amazing trip.
As another example, I arranged a big suprise thing for his birthday where basically I'd arranged a day of everything he said was on his bucket list. Silly stuff like going in a rooftop hot tub, having a massage, going to a casino. And I'd booked a day of basically doing all this amazing stuff, assuming that after almost a year together we'd be spending his birthday together.
When I asked him about birthday plans though, he told me he wasn't sure what his plans are and he felt he should be with his family rather than me (he's over 40 so that seems very weird) or that maybe he wanted to just stay in bed alone all weekend. I got angry and told him he could be as miserable as he liked and that I'd booked a big suprise for him and cancelled it all because he was being such a jerk.
He apologised sincerely for it, and told me he was sorry, that he was going to try and stop being so ridiculous and asked me to spend the day before his birthday with him instead. He's still saying sorry now, but I just feel completely exhausted and broken by this. It feels like we can't even just have fun without him needing to do stuff to make a good thing go bad.
It's just exhausting to be pushed away and sabotaged by someone who I know want to be with me, and I am at my wits end with this. I feel like if I walk away now it just confirms everything he believes about relationships. He had a few drinks a few weeks ago and told me how perfect I was, how beautiful, how funny, how great and there was no way I would stay with him. He just seems to have no faith at all.
Can anyone give me any advice here for what we can do for each other here?
I truly love this person, but being repeatedly rejected is taking a toll on me
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Post by alexandra on Mar 12, 2019 17:36:46 GMT
Hi ergo, sorry you're going through this. Sounds very, very possible that he's FA. Has he ever sought therapy? "I feel like if I walk away now it just confirms everything he believes about relationships. He had a few drinks a few weeks ago and told me how perfect I was, how beautiful, how funny, how great and there was no way I would stay with him. He just seems to have no faith at all." This is overmanaging on your end. If you are clearly communicating your issues to him, exactly what you want and what you can and can't accept, then he has the opportunity both to do the same and to step up. If he can't, then you walking away is what's best for you. His sharing his feelings while drunk, and indicating he has low self esteem, are indicative of his problems. Problems that he has to deal with, you can't do it for him. Think back to all the hard work that went into your own journey from FA to secure. What did you need to do for yourself to grow and evolve? Was there anything anyone else could have even done to help you if you weren't driven to help yourself? Are you on any kind of timeline in regards to wanting a family/trying to have children? If so, strongly consider that. He may not be able to overcome his issues on that timeline, which is a real timing incompatibility. Even if that ends up being the dealbreaker reason, he should understand that (I'm sure he understands that he's ambivalent and afraid of commitment which doesn't work for a woman who wants kids). And again, if he spins the reasons you give him that things aren't working to play into a victim mentality, everyone will always leave him, that's his projection that you can't control anyway. So get really clear with yourself about what you want, and then tell him. Maybe talk to him about your journey from FA to secure also and see how he responds. A big tell that my FA ex was not interested in taking action to confront his issues, no matter what he said, was his discomfort and lack of interest in discussing my own journey with me after we'd been on and off 2.5 years. A more secure person could have been present for that discussion instead of incredibly defensive (when we were talking about me, not him, nothing to actually be defensive about). |
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ergo
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Post by ergo on Mar 12, 2019 17:56:13 GMT
Thanks Alexandra. We both have grown up children, so there's no timeline. I am not interested in marriage / moving in together (yet anyway) but just want to be happy in the "now", so a big part of that is a boyfriend who does stuff with me.
The biggest issue that we have is probably around that. He is always volunteering to come to stuff and spend time with me, but at the same time, he will avoid making plans for big things (vacations, birthdays), which affects my life and my enjoyment of my life. I don't want to be going on singles vacations if you see what I mean. On a daily basis, he provides sufficient affection, caring actions, support and all those things so I think this really boils down to quality time as the biggest issue. I don't really ever FEEL not loved because he makes it obvious that I am most of the time.
My therapist thinks he avoids quality time because it leads to intimacy, so she said taking a step back might help. He's admitted he avoids those things because it makes him feel like it's "forever", which he says he's not ready for. She believes time dating more casually for a while, will resolve his fear response of being "not ready". Part of me feels like this is giving him his cake and letting him eat it, but she feels I am acting out of my own fear and that it's understandable for him to have his own baggage to resolve and that if the relationship is overall very good that we both need to extend patience with one another. I really don't know if this will work, but I agreed to it and he seems happy to take any solution which means he can still see me.
In terms of my healing, no, I could not have done that alone. I needed a therapist, and friends, and reading and actively participating in understanding how I got there and how to get out. However, I do think a loving relationship with a secure person would definitely have been an enormous help. As it happened, during that period I only ever attracted people who also had attachment issues, so all my relationships made things worse and not better. I do think our relationship though is extremely healthy. We manage conflict and difficulties with a lot of kindness and patience, and there's no "come here, go away" dance going on. He's always needed a lot of space, and I have always been totally relaxed about giving it.
On the positive, we did discuss my own journey, and he was very interested and says that the conversation really helped him to see he's got to make changes. He's not in denial or anything, he's not blaming me, he's not making excuses but I do think he is not equipped to resolve this in any way, shape or form. So if he won't go to therapy I wonder how we can do this alone.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 18:16:34 GMT
"....the relationship is overall very good ..."
IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH:
"I am currently really battling with this internally"
"I am experiencing behaviors that are plain hurtful"
"being repeatedly rejected is taking a toll on me"
"I do think he is not equipped to resolve this in any way shape or form."
The only advice I have would be to help yourself come to terms with the reality of the toxicity of this relationship, by becoming willing to open to the idea that you are perhaps in the denial and or bargaining stages of grief. These defenses protect one from the emotional impact of a loss that seems unbearable and preventable.
You seem to be grasping at straws here. Deep down you probably have the answers, I may be wrong, but I would guess that is where the internal battle is coming from. Your own conflict.
Also, you might want to examine your own beliefs about love and a great relationship if you think that these things entail you having to try really hard against overwhelming odds , with no end in sight, while feeling rejected, sad, and hurt. But somehow, hopeful. This is a very painful mindset to be in, it seems.
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Post by alexandra on Mar 12, 2019 18:19:33 GMT
ergo, okay, that makes sense. I don't agree with your therapist that if you just hold back and accept less than what you want then in more time it will fix the problem. I am not a therapist, though. BUT. I see what the therapist is getting at, and she's not wrong if he's actively researching or seeking to help himself. The concern is if he's not, then he's just going to keep repeating his patterns over and over and not grow. I'm not suggesting a person can change attachment all by themselves without interacting with others, but I believe it's extremely difficult to do if you are not actively putting in the hard work to do it. So nothing you say, no example you set, can convince him to try IF he's not ready to confront his issues yet. You said he is trying, though, which should mean his actions and words are aligned. If that's the case, I still believe you need to figure out what you want, what progress you'd need to see over what time period to be enough to stick around with him. Like maybe for example, within 6 months, you'd feel safer if he researched a therapist and started attending, and also joined you for a more "serious" celebration or activity once every 3 months (perhaps followed by a week of some distance or space for him so he doesn't feel engulfed with panic and can reset). Just an example, I don't know what you need or works for you. But I do know if he's not seriously doing some hard work to face his issues, it's unlikely to change much in the long run.
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ergo
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Post by ergo on Mar 12, 2019 18:28:20 GMT
I honestly don't know if I am in denial, now you say it I want to think about that carefully. The truth is, until the last couple of months I thought I had a great relationship, so this has felt like being blindsided a little. I just didn't see any of these issues at all. He was the most loving boyfriend, so I wasn't expecting this and trying to add it all up is hurting my head. I think my therapist is probably in the same boat as me on this one. She's had eight months of how great things are and then all of a sudden all this from nowhere. Maybe she is in denial too!
I agree with you about holding back and accepting less than I want. I think she's probably wrong on this one, as it makes it all about him. Of course that's what he wants. But it's making ME really miserable here because what I really want is my boyfriend back with none of this stuff.
I was thinking maybe putting a time frame on it.
What bothers me is that maybe he does "get past" all this and make the decision to stop doing those behaviors, but like you say it doesn't fundamentally change his attachment style. I know when I had attachment issues, I was completely capable of love with the right person, and want to believe he is too but maybe I am just putting myself through hurt.
This is all very hard
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 18:58:17 GMT
I honestly don't know if I am in denial, now you say it I want to think about that carefully. The truth is, until the last couple of months I thought I had a great relationship, so this has felt like being blindsided a little. I just didn't see any of these issues at all. He was the most loving boyfriend, so I wasn't expecting this and trying to add it all up is hurting my head. I think my therapist is probably in the same boat as me on this one. She's had eight months of how great things are and then all of a sudden all this from nowhere. Maybe she is in denial too! I agree with you about holding back and accepting less than I want. I think she's probably wrong on this one, as it makes it all about him. Of course that's what he wants. But it's making ME really miserable here because what I really want is my boyfriend back with none of this stuff. I was thinking maybe putting a time frame on it. What bothers me is that maybe he does "get past" all this and make the decision to stop doing those behaviors, but like you say it doesn't fundamentally change his attachment style. I know when I had attachment issues, I was completely capable of love with the right person, and want to believe he is too but maybe I am just putting myself through hurt. This is all very hard I'm really sorry you are experiencing this. I can relate to a lot of what you have written, only add more anxiety on his end to make for a completely up and down push pull "I can't live without you I need you I love you" coupled with repeated avoidance and distancing and hurtful behavior. He was FA with a heavy dose of anxious. I am recovering DA, making leaps and bounds toward secure as I resolve some internal faulty messaging myself. I grappled with the stages of grief, to include sadness, denial, anger, bargaining, also. I broke up with him once, and then cut all contact absolutely after he pursued a relationship (friendship )thingy with me again. It was so unpleasant the second go round, what with even more awareness and boundaries and standards for myself, that I catapulted into acceptance when I let it go completely, recently. I feel at peace and at ease; and free to live and love safely. I've got no plans for a relationship soon but I know I won't repeat that pattern. Just want to let you know that recovering from this kind of backtracking and disappointment and toxic dynamic is possible. I've been there and I know how it sucks but there is a better life after this kind of disappointment and heartbreak. |
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Post by faithopelove on Mar 12, 2019 23:11:58 GMT
I'll preface this post with noting that I read Jeb's book years ago, and started out life with mild but notable Fearful Avoidant attachment myself. After a lot of therapy, self-help and time with secure partners I moved towards secure and would now consider myself to be pretty secure without any behaviors or feelings reminiscent of problematic attachment. My current partner is avoidant I believe, although we have never done a test and he might well be FA. Despite being well-read on this topic and watching all new partners very closely, it was covert in this case, and I didn't see it until we were 7 or 8 months into a very happy long-term relationship. For the first six months, he behaved in ways that indicated secure attachment. He was consistent, happy with lots of time together, easy to make future plans with, volunteered to meet my parents, empathetic and it was just a very easy and comfortable relationship. The "red flags" so to speak reared their head around 7 or 8 months into the relationship where it became apparent that he was... 1/ Holding back emotionally (he'd never said "I love you" despite certainly acting as if he did and he kept sad things from me) 2/ Keeping me separate from certain elements of his life (his parents don't know I exist) 3/ Stressing boundaries, in terms of very rigid routines to make getting closer difficult 4/ Increasingly obsessing over hobbies so he had less time with me or was very tired 5/ Avoiding any kind of emotional conversation about himself (happy to have them about me) 6/ Voiced being "not ready" for our relationship (once we were already in it!!!!) I'd stress all this was counter-balanced by being particularly loving, very available for me, very much the pursuer throughout and so I felt "loved" and connected until we'd been dating long enough for these behaviors to stand out to me as abnormal. For a very long period, I felt like we were on the same page and even now there are certain avoidant behaviors he just does not have. He doesn't go silent, he doesn't withdraw, he is always affectionate and wants sex, he is generally pretty present. A frank discussion on the topic led to a confession that his childhood he'd described as happy and loving was actually rather neglectful and that his relationships since have been largely unhappy. He confessed he has emotional blocks on his feelings, fears of commitment and trouble even accessing his feelings; much less actually speaking to me about them. The above conversation was tearful on both parts, but he expressed very strongly that the relationship meant a lot to him and he did not want to lose it. I'm aware how tough / painful these kinds of situations can be, and it shook me a lot (I felt I had met Mr Right) but I tried to persevere with discussing ways we can resolve whatever ambivalence he has over commitment and vulnerability so we can work through it as it seems we both want to. We split up briefly for a couple of weeks, and both of us were completely miserable. He came back and seemed so sad and lost and I do feel he genuinely doesn't want to lose me but also feel completely exhausted from the "pushing away" behaviors that are hurtful and are sabotaging a really good relationship. At the suggestion of my therapist (who over years helped me heal my own attachment wounds) we decided to strip the relationship "back to basics" and just date and have fun with one another without pressure. He jumped at the idea of this suggestion, and said he definitely wanted that, and for us to be exclusive and he seemed very happy and particularly loving towards me with talk of future plans and a really clear impression that he wanted to get past the fear he was experiencing to a lasting future with me. In a lot of ways, he is the perfect boyfriend! However, I am currently really battling with this internally. On the one hand, I completely believe him that this problem is fear based and he wants to overcome it. I also believe he is making an effort to do that. On the other hand, I am experiencing behaviors that are plain hurtful at times and while it's not activating an anxiety or dismissing behaviors in me (thank God!), it's definitely making me feel sad as it would any person. As an example, I have a holiday booked with a group of people that he was always invited on. He's neglected to answer me, so it looks like I am going without him. Which makes me sad. He didn't even give me a direct answer, he just avoided the topic completely. Then he will do what he always does and while I am away will talk about how much he misses me and wanted to come. And I am just so frustrated by this because both of us would be happier if he came because it's going to be an amazing trip. As another example, I arranged a big suprise thing for his birthday where basically I'd arranged a day of everything he said was on his bucket list. Silly stuff like going in a rooftop hot tub, having a massage, going to a casino. And I'd booked a day of basically doing all this amazing stuff, assuming that after almost a year together we'd be spending his birthday together. When I asked him about birthday plans though, he told me he wasn't sure what his plans are and he felt he should be with his family rather than me (he's over 40 so that seems very weird) or that maybe he wanted to just stay in bed alone all weekend. I got angry and told him he could be as miserable as he liked and that I'd booked a big suprise for him and cancelled it all because he was being such a jerk. He apologised sincerely for it, and told me he was sorry, that he was going to try and stop being so ridiculous and asked me to spend the day before his birthday with him instead. He's still saying sorry now, but I just feel completely exhausted and broken by this. It feels like we can't even just have fun without him needing to do stuff to make a good thing go bad. It's just exhausting to be pushed away and sabotaged by someone who I know want to be with me, and I am at my wits end with this. I feel like if I walk away now it just confirms everything he believes about relationships. He had a few drinks a few weeks ago and told me how perfect I was, how beautiful, how funny, how great and there was no way I would stay with him. He just seems to have no faith at all. Can anyone give me any advice here for what we can do for each other here? I truly love this person, but being repeatedly rejected is taking a toll on me Sorry- I know it hurts. A lot of the things you described remind me of my ex DA. I also felt bad walking away last month bc I didn’t want to reinforce his beliefs that relationships don’t work out. He told me a few times in the past 16 months that I deserve better than him. His doubts are great and he has no faith. I was believing for us. It was his terms. I accommodated. Many similarities between our situations, but my ex isn’t willing to talk about issues or seek change. He only admits defeat. If your FA is willing to become self-aware and move toward secure then it could work BUT I would want to see evidence of this before I accepted the idea that he was willing. Let him prove himself to you. Relationships require patience and understanding, but they also require team effort and a person willing to step up. We can’t do that for them. If you were in anxious mode you’d have that push/pull dynamic. Even secure, you shouldn’t settle for less than what you want and deserve. It was so hard for me to step away. I just couldn’t be calm and secure enough to make him want us again. Think about your journey. Think of your worth. If you stay choose a time limit on how long you’re willing to accept his ambivalent behavior and hurtful actions. Make your choices from a place of strength and security and don’t feel guilty if you need to walk away to do what’s best for you. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 23:38:11 GMT
ergo i'm so sorry to hear that this is so tough on you (and him). sometimes a relationship can only go so far, and if it has reached a limit, then it's best to leave it while it's still beautiful. I think the real question is how far can you take this rship and will it evolve to another level? This is something that he needs to deal with by himself for himself. This is a process that requires time and effort and repeated engagement with the process - this might take a toll on you. I think what you need to do is to assess carefully if he's willing and able to do the work. it sounds like you might need to do some processing yourself to decide if you can stand by and watch him do the work without getting too involved/taking it personally. it clearly affects you now personally, and that makes it hard for you to 1. be yourself and 2. be a support. think of what you need first and foremost then extend the help that you can afford to give without spiralling out of control yourself.
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ergo
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Post by ergo on Mar 13, 2019 11:47:37 GMT
Posting here was really helpful, I am so glad I did.
It reminded me of how easy it is to fall into the patterns, and I am at least please to say I am not stuck in the dance of intimacy. If I have to walk away for my own welllbeing, I will be sad, but I will do it. If he pushes me away I feel frustrated and annoyed as it feels destructive, but I don't feel like I am going crazy, so this is all good news from the standpoint of my own security.
Making a list of my needs and what I will / won't do was really helpful, thank you for that advice. I did so last night and have a lot of clarity to help me to strike that balance between empathy and boundaries. I don't think enabling him will help him in the long run anyway.
Progress of sorts with him in the sense that we discussed this fairly reasonably and I told him my needs, my boundaries and he accepts them. I also told him that he must be getting help or taking actions to move forwards with this and he agreed. I also told him he has my support, but it doesn't mean I will tolerate fallout and he accepts that too.
He listened to me, and said he is sorry for being such a jerk and he wants to spend his birthday with me. He apologised also for pushing me away. I think the problem of course is that even this is part of the push / pull dance and he's able to apologise and come closer for the exact reason that he pushed me away for a few days. I don't think he has the awareness to understand this yet about himself.
He won't go to therapy (I think maybe this is very hard for an avoidant who can't talk to anyone very easily?) but he has agreed to work hard on resolving this. So I have given him a few books that really helped me as a starting point (he loves to read anything and everything) so I think that will help at least as a beginning point. Some on attachment, some on healing from trauma, some on vulnerability and self awareness and he's said he's going to apply himself to self-knowledge (which for me was half the journey).
We've agreed I am here to talk to, but can't replace a therapist. I also gave him some print offs I kept from my own therapy on some of the basic stuff like putting words to your emotions and practicing that, as well as the list of avoidant de-activitng strategies and have asked him to read those and observe in himself when he is doing that stuff. He's not very emotionally aware, but he's incredibly intelligent so I think he can take a philosophical approach to learning about this stuff which is a big step in the right direction.
I think I am going to observe how this goes. We're now talking about the elephant in the room, we're really good at talking about difficult stuff and I know that's hard for him but I think he knows I am on his team whether we are together or not. I think right now sticking to my boundaries and openly telling him when behaviour is hurtful will be really important.
As a recovering FA, I can also see that he and I are very different. I leaned more towards anxious and he leans more towards dismissing but I was always very good at being self-aware and feeling my feelings, whereas I feel like he is very alienated from his own inner world. Learning about how and why that happens will benefit him, even if not for this relationship.
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Post by 8675309 on Mar 13, 2019 13:20:24 GMT
Sorry you're going through this.
My FA acted secure too then signs started to show, quicker than yours so you were way more invested than I. We never got to a commitment stage. he acts 'secure' on his circle backs too but I obviously know better now. I stumbled here/learning attachment because he made me anxious and Im not and anxious person at all, Im secure attached. I was like what is wrong with me! LOL
"He's not very emotionally aware, but he's incredibly intelligent so I think he can take a philosophical approach to learning about this stuff" Mine is aware hes off but does nothing to change it yet, he has not hit his 'bottom' and he many never but I hope he gets there one day, he is a smart man and very logical in other areas.
We had an open talk about attachment, the elephant in the room as you say or as I call a third party relationship. His attachment, him, then me. haha.(really a situation-ship) Told him if he wants materials, links, etc I will provide them. he has to want this on his own so I dont send any info, he didn't ask and I dont pressure him to look. He will look it up or ask when he is ready. He is at least aware attachment exists even if it takes him 5 more failed relations to get there.
Its great he at least wants to learn about it and you're openly talking. Im in the same mindset as in how and why for himself even if Im no part of it. Ive told him this more than once, I want him to be able to live life without such anxiety, fears, etc. I just cannot imagine living this way and my hurt hurts for those that do. He knows I dont live like this, I know he sees how calm and stable me/my life is.
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Post by fairysalad on Mar 13, 2019 14:04:53 GMT
Hi Ergo. I'm a fairly new member here myself, and posted a few weeks ago about my break up with my partner. Also received some very helpful, supportive messages and was hoping I could maybe do the same for you.
Your story really resonated with me, as right up to the idyllic start and red flags not becoming apparent until a good few months in, I could have been reading my own story. I had moved from AP closer to earned secure through lots and lots of therapy and self-reflection. A note there would be that I didn't know about attachment theory until after my break-up, when I stumbled across the description of DA attachment, and the DA/AP dynamic.
Not everyone's story is the same, and not everyone's story will end in the same result. But I would like to gently remind you to be careful with your heart, and try to stay vigilant and aware in your relationship. My partner was able to talk to me, for the most part, and show desire to stay in the relationship too. He was physically affectionate, and I do believe honestly tried to show he cared as much as he was able. But he was often saying that he invested, whilst acting like I was not a priority, and sometimes acting like he cared and was fully invested whilst telling me he wasn't sure he was capable of being in a loving relationship.
I did not hear 'I love you' from him until around two and a half years in. And he kept telling me how much he wanted things to work out right up until the week he broke things off.
I didn't realise until the relationship ended how damaging it had been to my self-esteem and the progress I had made in therapy. I'm now here struggling to put my pieces back together, while he has been able to return to the safety of solitude. I was willingly blind to the signals he was sending about being unable to be fully emotionally present, and latched on to the sweet moments and occasions where he moved closer rather than further away.
Even though it was pointed out on this forum that my ex most likely had some narcisstic tendencies as well as DA ones, I do not think he is a bad person. Nor am I suggesting your partner is either. But truthfully, he may not be able to offer you what you truly need in terms of safe, loving and emotional connection without therapy. And it would not be a short journey with that therapist. Mine also refused to go to therapy, and why would he? He is doing what feels safe. Change will not happen simply through love and patience, and you may find yourself losing parts of you by always denying your needs and trying to meet his.
See if you can honestly answer whether this relationship gives you what you need. Not based in 'if onlys' and promises made that you don't know can be kept. Just him, as he is now, potentially never able to offer any more than he can now. Making the choice to walk away in love for yourself, and for him will be far less painful than struggling against the tide for years until it is no longer possible for either of you.
Saying this as someone really wishing I had the courage to walk away when the first red flags popped up. I'll never hate my ex, I was equally complicit in staying. But the message you send to your self-esteem staying in something where your needs are not met is not a good one. My break up is still raw, so I hope nothing I have said has seemed unnecessarily harsh or pessimistic.
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ergo
New Member
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Post by ergo on Mar 13, 2019 18:57:14 GMT
Great advice, thank you. I've known about this for all of about 5 weeks, so I want some time to talk to him and understand a bit more and also to figure out what I want going forward.
We'd previously talked about past relationships, and he described two where the partners were clingy and wouldn't let him have any time to himself, and one where they lived apart for the majority of a decade. So I am thinking now, with the benefit of hindsight, that he's been avoidant all his life and has no idea. Meaning maybe those first two people were AP and the second one might also have been avoidant. Either way, it doesn't sound now like he's ever had a healthy relationship so I know I have some big thinking to do here about this.
It's funny that with the benefit of earned secure, this actually isn't messing with my head or feeling personal so I think I am just going to lay it out and say I love him and want to be with him but he has to work towards secure attachment because I am not able to have a close-loving relationship with someone who is simultaneously sabotaging intimacy. I know that would make me really unhappy.
It can be his choice now.
I know I could have gone my entire life being FA and having co-dependent relationships, but you can either face your demons now, next week, next year or never. I am so much happier after I did the work.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 19:54:04 GMT
Great advice, thank you. I've known about this for all of about 5 weeks, so I want some time to talk to him and understand a bit more and also to figure out what I want going forward. We'd previously talked about past relationships, and he described two where the partners were clingy and wouldn't let him have any time to himself, and one where they lived apart for the majority of a decade. So I am thinking now, with the benefit of hindsight, that he's been avoidant all his life and has no idea. Meaning maybe those first two people were AP and the second one might also have been avoidant. Either way, it doesn't sound now like he's ever had a healthy relationship so I know I have some big thinking to do here about this. It's funny that with the benefit of earned secure, this actually isn't messing with my head or feeling personal so I think I am just going to lay it out and say I love him and want to be with him but he has to work towards secure attachment because I am not able to have a close-loving relationship with someone who is simultaneously sabotaging intimacy. I know that would make me really unhappy. It can be his choice now. I know I could have gone my entire life being FA and having co-dependent relationships, but you can either face your demons now, next week, next year or never. I am so much happier after I did the work. You sound like you're in a really balanced and healthy place with it, and that speaks volumes to your own recovery. I felt the same, on so many points. I would have revisited a relationship only if he were willing to be in therapy and working with someone he isn't attached to, as the intimate relationship is triggering for him and sharing anything about that with me is too vulnerable. I'm DA who has been in therapy and I have an ex DA who was in therapy also- it's totally doable for an avoidant who is sincere and dedicated to doing the work. My ex was repeatedly sorry for both his anxious and avoidant episodes and was doing all he could to manage them, but for me it was exhausting and very high maintenance. Really, I just want to relax and enjoy life and intimacy and camaraderie without a lot of drama. I ended up having to do the heavy lifting of managing the healthy, compassionate and supportive relating in the face of roller coaster moods from him. What about if I have a bad day and just need some support and real presence? I couldn't count on it. In fact, if he was in a bad space I could count on getting shit on somehow and then an apology later. Uh, no thanks. That felt horrible. Like you, I can't take it personally, and I have no doubt he would have kept this together if he could have, but it's not what happened. You will know. As you go along and pay attention to your own feelings, needs, and well-being, you will see if it is possible to balance the relationship and whether it is really sustainable or desirable for you. As someone who has come a long way to secure, I have found that I really want a partner who can match my capacity for intimacy and easy relating on a consistent basis. The roller coaster is just not for me. Best to you, whatever happens! I hope he can move forward in his recovery, time will tell! |
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Post by faithopelove on Mar 13, 2019 21:22:03 GMT
Great advice, thank you. I've known about this for all of about 5 weeks, so I want some time to talk to him and understand a bit more and also to figure out what I want going forward. We'd previously talked about past relationships, and he described two where the partners were clingy and wouldn't let him have any time to himself, and one where they lived apart for the majority of a decade. So I am thinking now, with the benefit of hindsight, that he's been avoidant all his life and has no idea. Meaning maybe those first two people were AP and the second one might also have been avoidant. Either way, it doesn't sound now like he's ever had a healthy relationship so I know I have some big thinking to do here about this. It's funny that with the benefit of earned secure, this actually isn't messing with my head or feeling personal so I think I am just going to lay it out and say I love him and want to be with him but he has to work towards secure attachment because I am not able to have a close-loving relationship with someone who is simultaneously sabotaging intimacy. I know that would make me really unhappy. It can be his choice now. I know I could have gone my entire life being FA and having co-dependent relationships, but you can either face your demons now, next week, next year or never. I am so much happier after I did the work. - Sounds like you’re in a really good and healthy place! Keep that perspective you shared...and, as always, time is the best test. He’ll show up or not. I love how you said, and I came to this place as well, “I am not able to be in a close, loving relationship with someone who is simultaneously sabotaging it.” That’s exactly it. The reason to finally fold. |
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