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Post by blacksnow2 on May 7, 2019 17:18:47 GMT
I don't know where else to put this but I'm pretty sure it's one of the main reasons why I am the way I am, and what drives my FA-ness.
So I do this thing where I analyze people, and myself, very deeply. We're talking about pretty accurate psychological profiles, and as complete as they can get. I wasn't always like this. I learned this skill when I experienced ongoing trauma during my preteen years. I was sort of frozen in place, unable to do much and nowhere to turn. So I shut off and observed others and tried to figure them out in order to prevent further trauma, rejection, neglect, and abandonment.
In my mind, if I could figure people out, then I could be in control. But actually, it is this exactly that made things worse for me and causes me to have so many triggers.
Since I do this to prevent rejection, I enter almost all situations by reading way too much into others and my environment (microexpressions, emotions, motives, etc.), so I know exactly how to chameleon. I think there is something fundamentally wrong with me, which is why I don't feel comfortable enough to be myself, hence I must chameleon. But, and this is where it screws me up, that's exactly why I grow so resentful and am prone to lashing out and pushing others away. I'm not being authentic, so I may come out of those situations "unrejected", but actually I do not get what I truly need or want.
All this time I thought this was part of being meta or self-aware. Now I get that it's not. And although I know what it's like to be liberated from it on the many days I've experienced being centered, some things will trigger me into stress and I'll revert back to doing it.
So what is this? Just an extreme case of self-consciousness? Does anyone else do it?
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Post by blacksnow2 on May 7, 2019 17:29:05 GMT
I also wanted to add, as ironic as it is, reading so much into other people and myself prevents me from truly seeing them and myself.
Make it stop. It's absolute torture. I can't believe I've lived like this for so long.
Edit: oh wow, wait. The realizations are pouring in. So this is also the reason why I sometimes feel so empty, because when you remove all of internal analytical dialogue and the constant prying, there is little else there. Like I feel as if I have no other 'me', this is me, this is what I do and have done over the years. Which is also why I feel like I'm not connected at all to people if there's space between us, if I'm sharing myself in other ways, like talking about what interests me OUTSIDE of psychoanalysis. It seems so fake and feels wrong. It's so weird to be separate.
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Post by alexandra on May 7, 2019 18:31:39 GMT
This sounds like a type of projected distancing behavior to cope. Rationalize to squash emotions, also if you don't share your own emotions you can't get truly rejected for who you "really" are. Do you think it has helped you disassociate? Maybe it's in that family of coping mechanisms?
I don't think it drives your FA-ness, because trauma "drives" it, but it's probably a symptom / manifestation that helped you at the time you started doing it, and now doesn't.
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Post by blacksnow2 on May 7, 2019 18:55:24 GMT
It definitely seems related to dissociation. I find myself often feeling so awkward now because I am free to ’be’ but I haven’t ‘been’ for so long, I feel raw. Like I have to relearn socializing and remain above the water instead of drowning from all the things I absorb.
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Post by epicgum on May 8, 2019 0:57:35 GMT
I don't know where else to put this but I'm pretty sure it's one of the main reasons why I am the way I am, and what drives my FA-ness. So I do this thing where I analyze people, and myself, very deeply. We're talking about pretty accurate psychological profiles, and as complete as they can get. I wasn't always like this. I learned this skill when I experienced ongoing trauma during my preteen years. I was sort of frozen in place, unable to do much and nowhere to turn. So I shut off and observed others and tried to figure them out in order to prevent further trauma, rejection, neglect, and abandonment. In my mind, if I could figure people out, then I could be in control. But actually, it is this exactly that made things worse for me and causes me to have so many triggers. Since I do this to prevent rejection, I enter almost all situations by reading way too much into others and my environment (microexpressions, emotions, motives, etc.), so I know exactly how to chameleon. I think there is something fundamentally wrong with me, which is why I don't feel comfortable enough to be myself, hence I must chameleon. But, and this is where it screws me up, that's exactly why I grow so resentful and am prone to lashing out and pushing others away. I'm not being authentic, so I may come out of those situations "unrejected", but actually I do not get what I truly need or want. All this time I thought this was part of being meta or self-aware. Now I get that it's not. And although I know what it's like to be liberated from it on the many days I've experienced being centered, some things will trigger me into stress and I'll revert back to doing it. So what is this? Just an extreme case of self-consciousness? Does anyone else do it? This is my experience as well, almost to a "t". Also in my preteen years I struggled and was bullied a lot. I came to the opinion that people are not safe, are cruel and stupid and need to be controlled and manipulated in order to protect myself. (Or I need to run away and/or push them away to protect myself). I can resonate with the hyper responsiveness to micro-expressions (I've gone over this a LOT in therapy). It makes things worse because I don't trust people I can't be direct in what I need and want and it frustrates me, which leads to passive aggressively lashing out or running away. In my own experience as an adolescent I feel that I learned to ruthlessly climb (from the very bottom at age 12) the social ladder to protect myself all while hating it and hating everyone around me for their part in it. I felt bad for the kids who were not as smart or as strong as I was and so could not figure out how to play the game as I did. I felt that school shootings by those kids (ala colombine) were moral and justified, and that the other kids deserved to die and that if a shooting happened at my own school I would also deserve to die for the role that I also played. I would caution that I have read a quote from Neil Strausse that went along the lines of, "A lot of people think that they have issues because of bullying in their childhood, but they don't realize how their upbringing set themselves up to be victims of bullying".
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Post by tnr9 on May 8, 2019 1:07:09 GMT
If it helps any...i am other focused as well...primarily because being me was not ok when I was a kid...so it was much safer to try to read into others....but my slant has been a bit distrusting and paranoid and I don’t just trigger on micro facial changes....it is much broader....Facebook likes, IM response time. And it sucks because in the end...I am trying to control what is not in my power to control and I read into all kinds of every day things and make them mean stuff they don’t. I mean, I love that I got an extra dose of imagination....but it got twisted along the way into some self negating story line. I don’t want to hijack your thread...just wanted to add that I relate a bit.
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Post by blacksnow2 on May 11, 2019 13:30:53 GMT
This is my experience as well, almost to a "t". Also in my preteen years I struggled and was bullied a lot. I came to the opinion that people are not safe, are cruel and stupid and need to be controlled and manipulated in order to protect myself. (Or I need to run away and/or push them away to protect myself). I can resonate with the hyper responsiveness to micro-expressions (I've gone over this a LOT in therapy). It makes things worse because I don't trust people I can't be direct in what I need and want and it frustrates me, which leads to passive aggressively lashing out or running away. In my own experience as an adolescent I feel that I learned to ruthlessly climb (from the very bottom at age 12) the social ladder to protect myself all while hating it and hating everyone around me for their part in it. I felt bad for the kids who were not as smart or as strong as I was and so could not figure out how to play the game as I did. I felt that school shootings by those kids (ala colombine) were moral and justified, and that the other kids deserved to die and that if a shooting happened at my own school I would also deserve to die for the role that I also played. I would caution that I have read a quote from Neil Strausse that went along the lines of, "A lot of people think that they have issues because of bullying in their childhood, but they don't realize how their upbringing set themselves up to be victims of bullying". OMG yes. This is totally me. I was bullied too, and I couldn't stand up for myself because I had moved countries and couldn't speak English at the time, I sort of went mute. Couldn't fit in at school, couldn't fit in at home either, so no support anywhere. It was devastating. This is at the root of it. So I'm guessing the psychoanalysis wants to check whether people are safe or not. but no matter how much I know about them, I'm still terrified at the thought that they will betray me or hurt me in some way. So I question their motives frequently. I'm bad at being direct about what I need too, especially if my alarms are going off thinking the person is unsafe. What an entire mess. Yes, I tried to ruthlessly climb the social ladder too when I moved again and was no longer a "loser" + knew the language. Suddenly I was the cool girl, I had so many (fake) friends. I didn't do this in college. But I repeated this pattern again in the workplace only to realize "I hate everyone anyway, why do I want to fit in here? what is my goal?" and now it makes sense that I'm trying to avoid being myself and possibly ostracized like I was back then. Wtf. Wtf wtf. I feel shook right now. The school shooting thing, I remember thinking "great I don't care, it means less people in the world". So I can relate a bit to those dark thoughts. That's a nice quote, however I'm starting to realize my family sort of played a secondary role in my trauma. Because before all of this, I was top of the class, made people laugh, outgoing, had true friends, etc. all from being myself. Then it all went to shit. I feel now I'm finally getting back what I lost. Thank you for helping me understand myself better.
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Post by blacksnow2 on May 11, 2019 13:38:14 GMT
If it helps any...i am other focused as well...primarily because being me was not ok when I was a kid...so it was much safer to try to read into others....but my slant has been a bit distrusting and paranoid and I don’t just trigger on micro facial changes....it is much broader....Facebook likes, IM response time. And it sucks because in the end...I am trying to control what is not in my power to control and I read into all kinds of every day things and make them mean stuff they don’t. I mean, I love that I got an extra dose of imagination....but it got twisted along the way into some self negating story line. I don’t want to hijack your thread...just wanted to add that I relate a bit. I trigger on social media likes too. Well, I used to. It was very bad. One dislike and I'd be like WHY? I used to get anxious just getting new notifications (email or PMs). Even anonymously, if I revealed something I found to be shameful, I'd avoid the forum/board for days on end. There used to be no continuation, I needed different accounts for different things/compartmentalization, so no one could have an accurate picture of me and know my weaknesses. This thankfully no longer happens, but I'm with you on that. You didn't hijack my thread.
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Post by happyidiot on Jun 7, 2019 6:24:58 GMT
blacksnow2 Yep. I (FA) do this too. I learned to analyze people from a young age because I had to in order to survive. Even then it didn't keep me safe. I learned that I have to be on high alert for any threats and I felt that if only I acted in the perfect way that maybe I would get love. I must have not gotten love because I wasn't perfect. Obviously this is not true, but tell that to my subconscious. When you try too hard to figure people out, make them like you and predict if they are going to hurt or abandon you, you don’t allow your true self to come through, out of fear you may not be acceptable or likable. Your goal is to make others like you, but in the process, you care little if you like yourself, and it drains you emotionally. I am not sure how to stop doing it with romantic partners. I'm not even sure who I am and what I need.
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mamut
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Post by mamut on Jun 7, 2019 15:39:43 GMT
Wow, this is my biggest problem, especially in romantic relationships. I can't live in the moment because if it. Weird that I haven't exactly analysed it yet in therapy.
What I've been doing the last couple of days is trying to focus the energy towards myself. I even imagine myself as a light and all the thoughts as small particles of light leaving me to go someplace else, let's say a romantic partner. The result is they are draining me of my light. So I imagine me calling back the small particles of light, and they join my body again, making me feel empowered. It might sound weird but when I do it, I feel great. I haven't tried it in public yet though.
The thoughts are a waste of energy, which if I focus to what's most important, me, I will be able to be myself and free. I am sick and tired of wasting any more energy on what others are doing. I'll give it a try in public and most importantly, talk it through with my therapist and I'll update.
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laney
New Member
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Post by laney on Jun 11, 2019 10:07:52 GMT
I don't know where else to put this but I'm pretty sure it's one of the main reasons why I am the way I am, and what drives my FA-ness. So I do this thing where I analyze people, and myself, very deeply. We're talking about pretty accurate psychological profiles, and as complete as they can get. I wasn't always like this. I learned this skill when I experienced ongoing trauma during my preteen years. I was sort of frozen in place, unable to do much and nowhere to turn. So I shut off and observed others and tried to figure them out in order to prevent further trauma, rejection, neglect, and abandonment. In my mind, if I could figure people out, then I could be in control. But actually, it is this exactly that made things worse for me and causes me to have so many triggers. Since I do this to prevent rejection, I enter almost all situations by reading way too much into others and my environment (microexpressions, emotions, motives, etc.), so I know exactly how to chameleon. I think there is something fundamentally wrong with me, which is why I don't feel comfortable enough to be myself, hence I must chameleon. But, and this is where it screws me up, that's exactly why I grow so resentful and am prone to lashing out and pushing others away. I'm not being authentic, so I may come out of those situations "unrejected", but actually I do not get what I truly need or want. All this time I thought this was part of being meta or self-aware. Now I get that it's not. And although I know what it's like to be liberated from it on the many days I've experienced being centered, some things will trigger me into stress and I'll revert back to doing it. So what is this? Just an extreme case of self-consciousness? Does anyone else do it? I do this and I used to to this a lot more in the past. I think it's being hyper vigilant to perceived threats due to trauma. Growing up my caregivers could have extreme mood swings and I always had to anticipate those. I still try to hide my own feelings and try to make people around me happy. Little changes in expression, perceived avoidance or subliminal aggression all trigger me. I discovered this very interesting puzzling thing observing secure people: They don't do this. I observed a new girl at work who kind of entered into existing friendship patterns and lunch schedules. She either ignored or never noticed people's slight annoyance at this new person, the fact that conversations went silent when she entered the room. After a while everyone got used to her and her cheerful happiness and she became one of the more popular people around. Another situation I observed was a wife just ignoring or never noticing her husbands neurotic behavior until he was fine again. I would have withdrawn in the first situation and eaten my lunch alone and in the second situation I would have been hyper vigilant and tried to find out what was wrong. I wonder if secure people just see the world through a happier, more positive lens, not picking up these threats that we see. They obviously don't accept major AP or DA behavior, but if it's just little things that trigger us insecure people ... they just see the more positive interpretation instead of the threat, "Oh, he is probably just busy, he'll answer later", "oh how cute, he messaged me several times in a row when he didn't hear from me!" and so on. The expect good things and good things happen to them. The hyper vigilant behavior might have been the survival strategy growing up but it does us a disservice in the real world. What you said about having to chameleon reminded me of the type description on the main page: jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/fearful-avoidant/ "A narcissistic or demanding mother can cause a child to mold him- or herself to please the parent to the point where little remains of the child’s own feelings and personality; they have been trained to display a false personality to gain parental approval "
"What the child learns to display is a false persona more pleasing to the active and admired parents "
"While we all have public faces—versions of ourselves edited for public consumption—the fearful-avoidant have commonly developed a false self, an acceptable outer personality which inhibits spontaneous display of their innermost thoughts and feelings even in intimacy. Those who think of themselves as their friends will often be surprised and hurt when high stress brings out the true personality of the masked one. By hiding their true selves, such people live with a social support network that has been attracted by their fake persona, so that when a crisis occurs, those who might have cared for them aren’t around, and those who are around don’t care for the real person revealed by the crisis."
"Instead of the dismissive’s defense mechanism of going it alone and covering up feelings of need for others by developing high self-esteem, the fearful-avoidant subconsciously believe there is something unacceptable about them that makes anyone who knows them deeply more likely to reject or betray them, so they will find reasons to relieve this fear by distancing anyone who gets too close."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 8:05:40 GMT
i do that too - overanalyzing everyone including myself, and constantly trying to unpack/understand/interpret someone's actions or interactions. i'm in agreement with the common thread here that this is rooted in perceived social threats due to earlier childhood trauma where inconsistency and volatility were present. i've cut that down alot, partially because i feel like my friends are tired of me and partially because i don't want to engage in that anymore since it doesn't seem to be helping concretely. i used to engage in overanalysing with friends because I saw them as allies in life, and that we go through things together, and therefore I can be myself and share my inner thoughts with them as a way for them to get to know me - i no longer believe any of that.
i think, for me, part of it comes from feeling like i was never quite able to understand the world like the way other people did. i was also often told to think differently e.g., i have to be more kind, i have to be more cheerful, more happy, and this and that, and sometimes those messages are conflicting without having the nuances explained to me in why there're different ways to be in different situations (which is very gaslighting for me as i'm quite logical). i also grew up pretty much alone and with adults - no siblings and i never really got along with people my age. all of it made me feel like i was "too much" and that i was just not a great person unless i behaved in milder, specific ways. If things went wrong, it was my fault because.. I am me, and the problem is me. so i analyze everything and tried not to make too big a misstep.
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Post by annieb on Nov 27, 2019 1:23:55 GMT
I'm analyzer, too. And have annoyed one of my bffs with this, yet she comes to me, when she needs answers in her life and I can analyze and see situations very very clearly. So, it isn't all bad. I think this is one of those things that you need to allow a lot of real input for it to not be disassociative. As in if you are having a real dialogue with people, you can keep analyzing, but if you go off on your own and not listen/ connect with people, then it's a problem. I think it's great that you had this epiphany. I think I had a similar epiphany when I was about 28 and 29, and it helped me just let things go a lot more.
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Post by blacksnow2 on Nov 27, 2019 4:42:07 GMT
Since the last time I posted this, I'm happy to say I don't nearly do this as much and can be more present. But the moment I detect danger, I will enter the analysis loop again. The thing is, it's a really useful skill to have that will never go away, meaning I'll always be able to pick up information and people's motives, but they don't have to be triggering. Apparently good self esteem is the antidote to manipulative and toxic people. Without that, there is no strategy so I fall back onto psychoanalysis. This usually happens when I'm in vulnerable situations, usually new environments, where self esteem temporarily takes a back seat. laney oh my gosh.... what you said about FA's is SPOT ON, like scarily so: This is me. I'm very controlled, it's all a performance for me. I've managed to be a little more real in my outer personality, but it's really not enough. Dammit, my true self is usually pulled out forcefully when I've had enough of something or someone pisses me off and I need to get real. And when I push it through, every bone in my body is resisting it because I feel so entirely exposed and unsafe.
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Post by annieb on Nov 27, 2019 12:39:12 GMT
Since the last time I posted this, I'm happy to say I don't nearly do this as much and can be more present. But the moment I detect danger, I will enter the analysis loop again. The thing is, it's a really useful skill to have that will never go away, meaning I'll always be able to pick up information and people's motives, but they don't have to be triggering. Apparently good self esteem is the antidote to manipulative and toxic people. Without that, there is no strategy so I fall back onto psychoanalysis. This usually happens when I'm in vulnerable situations, usually new environments, where self esteem temporarily takes a back seat. laney oh my gosh.... what you said about FA's is SPOT ON, like scarily so: This is me. I'm very controlled, it's all a performance for me. I've managed to be a little more real in my outer personality, but it's really not enough. Dammit, my true self is usually pulled out forcefully when I've had enough of something or someone pisses me off and I need to get real. And when I push it through, every bone in my body is resisting it because I feel so entirely exposed and unsafe. I was very similar, when I was younger, but once I hit my late thirties, I really couldn't give a damn and became a lot more real. The people, who really mattered still stuck around. I think I became a lot more outspoken and kind of entertaining.
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