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Post by bluefranky on Aug 14, 2019 2:48:56 GMT
Do they not come back to center when enough time apart has allowed and in finding center, can they not see that the good in our hearts hopefully out weighs everything else...in simple words what is stopping them from wanting to reconcile with someone who only wants to love them... And I know I sound like such a sap but I can't help myself
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Post by bluefranky on Aug 14, 2019 2:54:00 GMT
Sherry .... You had said earlier'he just never lets me go'.... Would this imply that when you try to leave he has found the key to holding on to both of you?... In the very brief texting exchanges that I had with my gal at the beginning of The Break-Up I sensed very vaguely that perhaps she was looking for me to fight for her like crazy even though she insisted her feelings and thoughts remained as they were.... I wonder if I should have fought harder in spite of her rejection.. might it have made a difference?... Might it still?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 11:53:50 GMT
Sherry .... You had said earlier'he just never lets me go'.... Would this imply that when you try to leave he has found the key to holding on to both of you?... In the very brief texting exchanges that I had with my gal at the beginning of The Break-Up I sensed very vaguely that perhaps she was looking for me to fight for her like crazy even though she insisted her feelings and thoughts remained as they were.... I wonder if I should have fought harder in spite of her rejection.. might it have made a difference?... Might it still? I really have no idea, but if you want to try reconciling with her I would suggest just reaching out to her candidly. That's the only way to know. As far as my relationship, I don't get to the point of breaking up- he just is able to work with my ebbs probably because he experiences them also and it's just not alarming and threatening to him. It's a flow and we work with it, and both are in therapy. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 12:05:05 GMT
It's important to remember here that what you think is love and what you value in a relationship is different to what other people think is love and that they value in a relationship.
You can't know what's best for another person- a dismissive's needs and emotional home is likely not going to feel like home to you in the long term.
There are standard building blocks for a healthy relationship- trust, commitment, consistency, emotional integrity and openness, to name a few. But the floor plan and decor that suits an avoidant is likely what you would not choose for yourself. It's just a different style of living I find.
I highly recommend attachment therapy to anyone still stuck or grieving, having difficulty letting go. Find your secure relationship with someone able to reciprocate. It's not possible to fix another person, and it's also not possible to truly know what it is that they need- they have to be able to identify that for themselves and build that with a partner who is healthy enough to work side by side.
I'll be on the boards less as I move into a very busy season with work. I do wish you all the best!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 14:38:15 GMT
I'd like to add, that my life as an avoidant is not void and empty. There is a richness to it outside of people, that I cherish and call home.
You might feel pity for a person born blind, or with some sort of handicap that you believe would render life less beautiful. Well, that's not how I see my life, not at all. Sometimes a lack in one area allows a richness in another. It is true that I am grieving connections I couldn't make, and a sense of isolation. However, I have had profound experiences of belonging in other ways, namely in nature and this magnificent cosmos that surrounds us. There is life outside of ourselves and contentment has not entirely eluded me.
We aren't all cut from the same cloth. What is profoundly moving and comforting to me, might not impact you the same way. There is not just one way to have a full life. There is not just one way to express the wholeness of who we are. Even those people who find a secure relationship will suffer and experience lack in some way or another- it may be through poor health, disappointment in professional life or success, we all suffer in one way or another.
You may see the dismissive who left you as a person crippled and incapable of the joy you think you know how to find- but what about you? Is your health and happiness so readily accessible that you are able to manifest it in spite of the limitation s you see in others? You may be mistaken in your perceptions. It's very easy to look at another person and say "If you would only do this or that, I could be happy." That's a handicap in itself.
I do wish everyone here the best as they find their own true center. It's not outside of you, by the way.
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Post by bluefranky on Aug 14, 2019 19:00:12 GMT
thank you Sherry...I hear what you are saying and I appreciate your candor. I am far from anything healed.....and my only desire here was to find a way for both of us to heal separately and yet in time together, however that might be possible. Clearly, I don't want to lose her.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 19:52:01 GMT
thank you Sherry...I hear what you are saying and I appreciate your candor. I am far from anything healed.....and my only desire here was to find a way for both of us to heal separately and yet in time together, however that might be possible. Clearly, I don't want to lose her. I understand! It's a long road. |
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ted
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Post by ted on Aug 16, 2019 15:57:55 GMT
Just have to get this down on paper somehow and move on...
I am sure I am partly to blame keeping the AP rose-colored glasses on for several months. I have my own issues to work on, but can't help ruminating on all the things I should have picked up on.
Early on told me she said she told her girlfriends she really needed to "find time" to get a relationship
Occasionally told me about this "navy seal" boyfriend she had in her 20s
Constantly busy, always working (regional sales person), social danced 5+ times a week, always out with her girlfriends
Would only see me a few hours at a time, felt like I was on a time clock
Told me from day 1 she wanted to delay intimacy because of her experience with jumping in too quickly in a 2nd marriage
I am no Don Juan, but she kissed like a 10 year old girl, thought she just was inexperienced or holding back
Touched me (grab my arm, hand on shoulder, thats it) but there was a sense I was always at arms length
When we went away together, although we agreed to go slow (separate rooms) managed to touch her more intimately and looking back almost felt like she was made of stone
Once we spent three days away at her parents homes, that seemed to trigger a massive deactivation and her inventing conflicts that weren't there
Realized she was affectionate texting me, but never voiced it
Really into getting body massages like it was a substitute for intimacy, when we went away she said she had a surprise for me ... a couples massage :-(
I'd open up about how I envisioned relationships from day 1 (In a non threatening philosophical manner) and realized most of the time she'd just nod an agree and never opened up
Even at the point she knew I was probably going to call it quits, it seems she still wanted to keep the relationship going at this ever dwindling pace
Literally checked out mentally a few times I was sitting next to her but like she wasn't there
The only time I really ever saw her smile ear to ear and show massive joy is when she was playing with her dogs
When she tried to reverse dump me, she had a lame excuse that she was having trouble "putting into words"
Her mother was very cold and controlling to the point she moved in with grandparents as a teen
She was very charming in the first few months we had a great time, but then as we got close the behaviors started to emerge and accelerate
Just feel like a fool.
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Post by bluefranky on Aug 23, 2019 16:13:02 GMT
Ted....I have read your last post and line for line, we are talking about the same experience and observations...not kidding. The changes were very subtle, I might add, so much so that you hardly saw them ... but always had this sense that something was not right, something was very different. The massage thing....wow. Same same, across the board.
She never vocalized her reason for leaving other than saying of herself: "I guess at some point, "I was changing". Attachment turned off for her at some point (as it did many times before where she would go away for several days trying to make sense of it all through finding a reason....and when we would reconvene, there would be no dialogue (again, neon red flags as big as planets which for my own reasons, I refused to deal with...probably because I was of the delusion that if I only showed her love and support of the kind I thought was real and good and wholesome, she would "come around".
.....As a wise uncle says from time to time: "I only don't know!"
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ted
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Post by ted on Aug 23, 2019 18:34:44 GMT
bluefranky , yeah rings true, I hoped in my mind before I understood this that she was just timid or having trouble being vulnerable, and my kindness and caring would bring her past that. Of course we know now when they felt they were getting close to us it was time for them to deactivate and head for the hills. worse yet I did have indirect contact from her exactly 30 days past NC. I had helped her with her website and when I realized things were going south I trained her intern to take it over. boom in comes an email from the intern (who I offered to help in the past) who was trying to move a few things on the website forward and didn't know how to proceed. I wrote a nice email giving her some guidance (business like not mentioning the Ex) knowing full well she would forward to the Ex, but she was such a sweet girl I couldn't turn her down, hoping that would send her on her way.... you know where this is going to go... 2 days later in comes an email from the intern, the Ex finds an issue with the web site and emails the intern who is in a panic and forwards me the email trail. In it I find "You and he ought to look at this together." (he being me) and "Again please check with him…". Even though I had loosely promised the Ex if she needed a few reference for people she could hire to help her, clearly she is trying to get me to help her by using the intern as a middle man. This is someone I haven't had contact in 30 days and only saw face-to-face for 2 hours in early June. Granted at some level I asked for this, but putting the poor intern in the middle because she doesn't have the decency to ask me directly. Think I a have a DA and a narcissist on my hands. No matter. Won't break no contact again, she's shown her true colors...and I've got to smarten up and work on myself. Thanks for the input.
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Post by bluefranky on Aug 23, 2019 19:05:58 GMT
alternate reality stuff
....so glad I have been NC for 4 months, in many ways. I am way too naive in these matters
and way too vulnerable emotionally to handle any more than is on my plate.
God is looking out for me, in spite of myself.
be well Ted!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 20:10:12 GMT
Gentlemen. If you see someone who is Not Enough For You , and then try to make them Enough For You by throwing everything you have on the counter, and they are still Not Enough For You, you can find all the fault in them that you want but sooner or later you will have to see that you've got issues. You think you're the Gods of Love? ted sounds angry and controlling and spiteful and bluefranky sounds steeped in rescue fantasies and illusions. Avoidants are not your problem. Your problem is that you chased an avoidant and thought you knew better. Not everyone wants what you want and guess what- they let you know that. Somewhere is an avoidant complaining about an AP- read the descriptions of your toxic type and that could take you down a notch. I can't tolerate AP behavior in a relationship, and a lot of AP will say the same about an AP partner so it's not just me. You're only human and so is everyone else. Get off your pedestal, You're not the answer for anyone- and they aren't the answer for you. |
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Post by averyleigh on Aug 30, 2019 0:04:58 GMT
Gentlemen. If you see someone who is Not Enough For You , and then try to make them Enough For You by throwing everything you have on the counter, and they are still Not Enough For You, you can find all the fault in them that you want but sooner or later you will have to see that you've got issues. You think you're the Gods of Love? ted sounds angry and controlling and spiteful and bluefranky sounds steeped in rescue fantasies and illusions. Avoidants are not your problem. Your problem is that you chased an avoidant and thought you knew better. Not everyone wants what you want and guess what- they let you know that. Somewhere is an avoidant complaining about an AP- read the descriptions of your toxic type and that could take you down a notch. I can't tolerate AP behavior in a relationship, and a lot of AP will say the same about an AP partner so it's not just me. You're only human and so is everyone else. Get off your pedestal, You're not the answer for anyone- and they aren't the answer for you. Dear @sherry, I cannot thank you enough for writing about how you process your emotions. It made me cry in a good way. Your ability to articulate your deactivation is not only eye opening but it is so healing to read. So thank you thank you thank you. It means a lot that you would spend time to help shed some light on your experience. In regards to a few AP members who are having difficulty with understanding that fixing others or doubling down on avoidants, isn’t issues of the avoidants, I hope you can be patience with us. It takes a while for us to realize that other people just don’t process emotions the same way we do. Also on our end it takes a while to get over feeling rejected so we feel more comfortable showing anger than hurt. But the truth is we are deeply hurt because not being heard or rejected is the initial wound that made us AP. But also I can empathize with some who are angered by their encounters with DA’s who happen to be narcs or sociopaths. Narcs, malignant narcs, sadists , sociopaths, etc. can be malicious and enjoy hurting AP’s who are willing to double down to attain approval. So know that occasionally when AP’s come off angered it could be that their anger isn’t directed towards ones with just an avoidant attachment, it could be because they were swindled by a narc, sociopath, etc. with an avoidant attachment...and you could imagine how unpleasant that could be. A lot of people on these forums are just learning about attachment theory and are unaware of their own wounds that need healing; APs struggle with loving themselves enough to know they deserve someone more aligned with their ideas of love and can handle their need of reassurance. Even though they spend the majority of their time speaking about their avoidant person, they don’t realize it doesn’t have anything to do with the person/subject they speak of. The avoidant subject is just a symbol of their own deeply unresolved issues. Anyhow, @sherry I am so thankful you are aware of your feelings & experiences and are willing to share and help us. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 0:44:57 GMT
averyleigh, you are welcome and I am glad that my perspective has helped you! And yes, I do understand pathological dynamics in the AP/DA experience. As an avoidant female, I have been ensnared by Cluster B men, namely BPD type- anxious narcissists. It was extremely emotionally abusive, and something that my therapist has done some explaining and working with me on. I get it- and I hate it as much as anyone. AP's that are spiteful, judgemental, and so superior in their rant really remind me of those experiences. Narcissists and cruel, angry people exist in both ends of the spectrum, unfortunately. However, my sharing and participating here is along the lines of working with my own issues and encouraging others in their own growth. I think it does a body good! So, I appreciate what you've written here, thank you.
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Post by averyleigh on Aug 30, 2019 14:52:17 GMT
averyleigh, you are welcome and I am glad that my perspective has helped you! And yes, I do understand pathological dynamics in the AP/DA experience. As an avoidant female, I have been ensnared by Cluster B men, namely BPD type- anxious narcissists. It was extremely emotionally abusive, and something that my therapist has done some explaining and working with me on. I get it- and I hate it as much as anyone. AP's that are spiteful, judgemental, and so superior in their rant really remind me of those experiences. Narcissists and cruel, angry people exist in both ends of the spectrum, unfortunately. However, my sharing and participating here is along the lines of working with my own issues and encouraging others in their own growth. I think it does a body good! So, I appreciate what you've written here, thank you. Dear @sherry, Thanks for the lovely reply and the reminder that narcs, sociopaths, etc. do not exclusively have an avoidant attachment and can have any kind of attachment. I needed that reminder because I think it’s easy for AP’s like myself to vilify DA’s because of past hurt. I had time this morning to think about what moved me in your last few posts that made me cry. Your words have given me hope and light. There has been a part of me that felt for a long time that what made me special or important is helping others. If I wasn’t useful to others then I wouldn’t feel whole or confident to the point it became part of my identity. I would double down on trying to save people (who didn’t need saving) to avoid my personal issues. I soon realized this was just a void and I needed to look inward. I also realized I was addicted to the pain, and my needs were intense due to trauma bonding, and was subconsciously trying to relive/ rework the painful patterns of my past through people who were emotionally unavailable. My vibrations were attracting people who were emotionally unavailable because I was emotionally unavailable. It took me a long time to wrap my brain around that. It took me even longer to realize that it wasn’t what the DA was doing to me but I was one half of what was happening to me. I had no idea that reading this forum late last night was going to have this massive effect on me. Hearing you speak about how you view things and how you are fulfilled and happy gave me comfort & joy. Reading your words made me feel good because instead of feeling all the hurt, anger, and resentment I tend to feel, it was just really nice to let it go, and to think that the avoidants that I love that are no longer part of my day to day life are ok and happy, and it is okay that we can exist without one another, happy, fulfilled, and finding our own way. |
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