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Post by nyc718 on Aug 15, 2019 0:45:05 GMT
I have written recently about my break up with my FA boyfriend. In an effort to understand attachment types more, I want to learn more about the mindset.
I know my ex FA bf has some limitations that will prevent him from going further in a relationship. I wonder if since he doesn't seem to know anything about his attachment type and how his actions play into his relationships, (he is 53) is he bound to just keep having limited relationships forever? I mean, he might well be able to somehow come to an understanding of his attachment type, but is someone like him worried about being alone, or is he perfectly happy going from one relationship to another, one doesn't work out, just go on to the next?
From the conversations we had about any relationships he had, I realize that he would tell me the things wrong with the women he dated. I have no doubt that I will be the next story about what was wrong with me to the next woman he dates.
I have no intentions of being offensive with my post, so apologies if it in any ways comes off as such. My mindset is so different from his. I don't feel like fights or misunderstandings mean a relationship are over. I don't completely shut down when there is conflict. I am trying to get more understanding about the mindset. I admit I felt blindsided by his ghosting me after a fight, so I am trying to understand it. For me, I would never do that because to me that is emotional abuse. But if I am understanding correctly, it's an action that many FAs must do to protect themselves, not thinking of the impact to anyone else.
I truly do have love and compassion for him, and I know a former version of myself could not have felt that way for him, I would have had to hate him. But I don't hate him. I want him to find happiness with or without me.
Thank you for your feedback.
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Post by mrob on Aug 15, 2019 1:00:53 GMT
Read Jeb’s “Bad Boyfriends” book. It describes FA attachment in detail, and I can say, in my case, it’s accurate. It also describes all the other attachment styles, because it takes two to tango.
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Post by nyc718 on Aug 15, 2019 1:14:15 GMT
Read Jeb’s “Bad Boyfriends” book. It describes FA attachment in detail, and I can say, in my case, it’s accurate. It also describes all the other attachment styles, because it takes two to tango. I am currently starting the Avoidant book by Jeb. I am looking forward to learning about it all. It's been insightful as well as painful. Thank you. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 1:16:48 GMT
I think the fear of abandonment is way greater than the fear of being alone. at least when i'm alone, that state is a consistent and stable one since it does not have a variable factor i.e., someone else that may change anytime for no rhyme or reason.
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Post by nyc718 on Aug 15, 2019 1:29:13 GMT
I think the fear of abandonment is way greater than the fear of being alone. at least when i'm alone, that state is a consistent and stable one since it does not have a variable factor i.e., someone else that may change anytime for no rhyme or reason. Interesting, thank you. But if the fear is abandonment, why would he ghost me even if after a fight? Do you feel like someone can't love you enough and will therefore abandon you? I wouldn't have abandoned him ever. I am only not in touch because he's the one who seems to be abandoning me! Luckily I don't have that fear of being abandoned, though I miss him very much. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 2:05:47 GMT
I think the fear of abandonment is way greater than the fear of being alone. at least when i'm alone, that state is a consistent and stable one since it does not have a variable factor i.e., someone else that may change anytime for no rhyme or reason. Interesting, thank you. But if the fear is abandonment, why would he ghost me even if after a fight? Do you feel like someone can't love you enough and will therefore abandon you? I wouldn't have abandoned him ever. I am only not in touch because he's the one who seems to be abandoning me! Luckily I don't have that fear of being abandoned, though I miss him very much. well, i cannot speak to what he thinks, just to what I think. also, i don't recall what your fight was about or how it played out, so i'm speaking only for myself and in generic terms. ymmv! my thought processes are more like... it's just better to leave now than later when eventually someone gets sick of me and actually truly leave me cos i am too much (of course), and it'll eventually happen anyways, so might as well just cut it short. we're already fighting over stupid things, how will we stay together when shit gets real and we actually have something serious to fight about? this person does not work WITH me, only against me. if this person can be against me and engage in conflict over something stupid, lord help me when things get real and i really need a partner then - he's not going to have the teremity to stick it out with me. i don't really want to fight - i always lose anyways. it's too risky to fight, it creates too many opportunities for someone to leave me because they're unhappy with me and with what i want. see, now that i stand up for myself, i already get into a fight over something stupid. i can never stand up for myself because that comes at a cost of relationships - for me to be in a relationship (romantic, work, friends) with someone, there is no space for me. in my mind, it's already over, there's already abandonment happening. now it's over something small, but over time, it'll just repeat itself and it can only get worse. the love is not consistent - there's conflict introduced and it means that our relationship is not consistent as well. it can end any time, and who the hell knows when. conflicts are extremely difficult for me. conflict means taking opposing stances in an aggressive. conflict means walking away from me, even if it is temporarily. but it does mean that you HAVE walked away from me and who is to say it wouldn't happen again? conflict means we are not on the same team and i am on my own, simply because i stood up for myself. if I am willing to engage in conflict, regardless of whether or not it's serious, it means I'm willing to walk away from that relationship right there and then. there's a part of me that goes - if that person is fighting with me, then how can this person ever truly be in my corner? I cannot trust that this person is in my corner, particularly when things are difficult. i cannot trust you. there's too much instability and uncertainty over whether this person is in it with me. this risk is amplified when things are difficult, so when i need this person the most, that's when they're also most likely to leave. that is just way too much risk to deal with. i don't feel like someone can't love me enough. what i feel, especially when fighting over stupid things, is that this person prioritizes him/herself over me and is willing to abandon me at anytime. it also depends on how aggressive the fight was -- if there was anger and aggression directed towards/against me, i will never trust that person again because it means that, through no fault of my own, simply because I had a different view, this person whom i make myself vulnerable to is willing/able to direct that anger at me. your love means very little if it doesn't come with protection, giving, and gentleness. now i'm not saying that you're none of those things, but insecures may perceive those things very differently, particularly in conflict. there're fears of abandonment which I think are triggered by inconsistency, however that is perceived (inconsistency in affection, disruption of relationship through conflict, etc). inconsistency means i get abandoned over again and again by the same person. they leave then they come back, and conflicts mean exactly that. during conflict, they leave. after conflict, they come back. this is not to say that we cannot have differing views - if that differing views were shared in discussion, rather than over conflict, I think that's perfectly fine. we're a team working on different views, and there is no "stance" taken nor an assumption that my wants are orthogonal to yours. so conflict doesn't mean differing views for me - it means we're actually fighting, even if it is very mild. |
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Post by nyc718 on Aug 15, 2019 3:21:45 GMT
Interesting, thank you. But if the fear is abandonment, why would he ghost me even if after a fight? Do you feel like someone can't love you enough and will therefore abandon you? I wouldn't have abandoned him ever. I am only not in touch because he's the one who seems to be abandoning me! Luckily I don't have that fear of being abandoned, though I miss him very much. well, i cannot speak to what he thinks, just to what I think. also, i don't recall what your fight was about or how it played out, so i'm speaking only for myself and in generic terms. ymmv! my thought processes are more like... it's just better to leave now than later when eventually someone gets sick of me and actually truly leave me cos i am too much (of course), and it'll eventually happen anyways, so might as well just cut it short. we're already fighting over stupid things, how will we stay together when shit gets real and we actually have something serious to fight about? this person does not work WITH me, only against me. if this person can be against me and engage in conflict over something stupid, lord help me when things get real and i really need a partner then - he's not going to have the teremity to stick it out with me. i don't really want to fight - i always lose anyways. it's too risky to fight, it creates too many opportunities for someone to leave me because they're unhappy with me and with what i want. see, now that i stand up for myself, i already get into a fight over something stupid. i can never stand up for myself because that comes at a cost of relationships - for me to be in a relationship (romantic, work, friends) with someone, there is no space for me. in my mind, it's already over, there's already abandonment happening. now it's over something small, but over time, it'll just repeat itself and it can only get worse. the love is not consistent - there's conflict introduced and it means that our relationship is not consistent as well. it can end any time, and who the hell knows when. conflicts are extremely difficult for me. conflict means taking opposing stances in an aggressive. conflict means walking away from me, even if it is temporarily. but it does mean that you HAVE walked away from me and who is to say it wouldn't happen again? conflict means we are not on the same team and i am on my own, simply because i stood up for myself. if I am willing to engage in conflict, regardless of whether or not it's serious, it means I'm willing to walk away from that relationship right there and then. there's a part of me that goes - if that person is fighting with me, then how can this person ever truly be in my corner? I cannot trust that this person is in my corner, particularly when things are difficult. i cannot trust you. there's too much instability and uncertainty over whether this person is in it with me. this risk is amplified when things are difficult, so when i need this person the most, that's when they're also most likely to leave. that is just way too much risk to deal with. i don't feel like someone can't love me enough. what i feel, especially when fighting over stupid things, is that this person prioritizes him/herself over me and is willing to abandon me at anytime. it also depends on how aggressive the fight was -- if there was anger and aggression directed towards/against me, i will never trust that person again because it means that, through no fault of my own, simply because I had a different view, this person whom i make myself vulnerable to is willing/able to direct that anger at me. your love means very little if it doesn't come with protection, giving, and gentleness. now i'm not saying that you're none of those things, but insecures may perceive those things very differently, particularly in conflict. there're fears of abandonment which I think are triggered by inconsistency, however that is perceived (inconsistency in affection, disruption of relationship through conflict, etc). inconsistency means i get abandoned over again and again by the same person. they leave then they come back, and conflicts mean exactly that. during conflict, they leave. after conflict, they come back. this is not to say that we cannot have differing views - if that differing views were shared in discussion, rather than over conflict, I think that's perfectly fine. we're a team working on different views, and there is no "stance" taken nor an assumption that my wants are orthogonal to yours. so conflict doesn't mean differing views for me - it means we're actually fighting, even if it is very mild. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 3:31:38 GMT
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hola
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Post by hola on Aug 15, 2019 20:40:44 GMT
I have written recently about my break up with my FA boyfriend. In an effort to understand attachment types more, I want to learn more about the mindset. I know my ex FA bf has some limitations that will prevent him from going further in a relationship. I wonder if since he doesn't seem to know anything about his attachment type and how his actions play into his relationships, (he is 53) is he bound to just keep having limited relationships forever? I mean, he might well be able to somehow come to an understanding of his attachment type, but is someone like him worried about being alone, or is he perfectly happy going from one relationship to another, one doesn't work out, just go on to the next? From the conversations we had about any relationships he had, I realize that he would tell me the things wrong with the women he dated. I have no doubt that I will be the next story about what was wrong with me to the next woman he dates. I have no intentions of being offensive with my post, so apologies if it in any ways comes off as such. My mindset is so different from his. I don't feel like fights or misunderstandings mean a relationship are over. I don't completely shut down when there is conflict. I am trying to get more understanding about the mindset. I admit I felt blindsided by his ghosting me after a fight, so I am trying to understand it. For me, I would never do that because to me that is emotional abuse. But if I am understanding correctly, it's an action that many FAs must do to protect themselves, not thinking of the impact to anyone else. I truly do have love and compassion for him, and I know a former version of myself could not have felt that way for him, I would have had to hate him. But I don't hate him. I want him to find happiness with or without me. Thank you for your feedback. As an FA I can give you mine. I grew up in an extremely toxic household. Every single disagreement escalated into world war III and the world coming to an end. Huge massive fights, constant threats of divorce, threats of leaving, threats of it's over. Then what followed was massive silent treatments. Days and days of everyone ignoring each other, making each other feel like they don't exist and the biggest FEAR of all, the feeling that you are NOT loved and don't matter. Intense loneliness is all I got. So as an adult, whenever there is any kind of disagreement, I get an insane fear that it's over and they're leaving. So I tend to shut down when that happens, I self protect because that's what I learned to do to keep myself safe and ok. Drama, yelling/screaming and fights are a HUGE trigger for me and I do not tolerate it. At. All. I'll just walk away. You have to understand that not everyone grew up the way you did. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 0:17:15 GMT
I have written recently about my break up with my FA boyfriend. In an effort to understand attachment types more, I want to learn more about the mindset. I know my ex FA bf has some limitations that will prevent him from going further in a relationship. I wonder if since he doesn't seem to know anything about his attachment type and how his actions play into his relationships, (he is 53) is he bound to just keep having limited relationships forever? I mean, he might well be able to somehow come to an understanding of his attachment type, but is someone like him worried about being alone, or is he perfectly happy going from one relationship to another, one doesn't work out, just go on to the next? From the conversations we had about any relationships he had, I realize that he would tell me the things wrong with the women he dated. I have no doubt that I will be the next story about what was wrong with me to the next woman he dates. I have no intentions of being offensive with my post, so apologies if it in any ways comes off as such. My mindset is so different from his. I don't feel like fights or misunderstandings mean a relationship are over. I don't completely shut down when there is conflict. I am trying to get more understanding about the mindset. I admit I felt blindsided by his ghosting me after a fight, so I am trying to understand it. For me, I would never do that because to me that is emotional abuse. But if I am understanding correctly, it's an action that many FAs must do to protect themselves, not thinking of the impact to anyone else. I truly do have love and compassion for him, and I know a former version of myself could not have felt that way for him, I would have had to hate him. But I don't hate him. I want him to find happiness with or without me. Thank you for your feedback. As an FA I can give you mine. I grew up in an extremely toxic household. Every single disagreement escalated into world war III and the world coming to an end. Huge massive fights, constant threats of divorce, threats of leaving, threats of it's over. Then what followed was massive silent treatments. Days and days of everyone ignoring each other, making each other feel like they don't exist and the biggest FEAR of all, the feeling that you are NOT loved and don't matter. Intense loneliness is all I got. So as an adult, whenever there is any kind of disagreement, I get an insane fear that it's over and they're leaving. So I tend to shut down when that happens, I self protect because that's what I learned to do to keep myself safe and ok. Drama, yelling/screaming and fights are a HUGE trigger for me and I do not tolerate it. At. All. I'll just walk away. You have to understand that not everyone grew up the way you did. i hear you hola. my childhood never had screaming matches but it was similar in terms of silent treatments and disagreements that were never resolved and a lack of productive constructive loving conversations that focused on repairing relationships and solving problems as a team. it was toxic in the sense that it was war but a silent one - sometimes there is no difference between that and a normal quiet day, and so I never know whether things are good or not. if things blow up till there's some aggression being expressed e.g., angry faces and walking away, even if it was not a fight with threats made, it really felt like that is the end of the relationship because we can't even fake being ok anymore. |
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Post by nyc718 on Aug 16, 2019 2:58:41 GMT
hola, thanks for your reply and I am sorry about the turmoil in your childhood. I just want to give a little bit of my own background - I was not raised in a functional household at all. My mom was bitter and angry and my father just kind of existed emotionless. I was never able to count on my parents and thus, never had a secure attachment to them. What saved me was that I have an older sister who was consistently there for me, and an even older brother who didn't live with us for most of my childhood because he was older, but he was also pretty consistent. Without them, I wouldn't have survived my childhood as well as I did. I knew from a young age that I wanted to be what I called "normal". I wanted a normal relationship that wasn't full of drama. I did not know anything about attachment styles, but I DID know that I was doing things to sabotage my relationships. I see now that I was a fearful avoidant at that time. I did not have high self esteem though on the outside my life seemed pretty good. But I didn't love myself and I realized at around age 22, 23 that something is not right for me to say that about myself. I knew I was a good person, I had friends, and I wasn't trying to hurt anyone, so I knew I had to start to learn to love myself. I started therapy on my own at 19 because of the awful relationship I had with my mother. Thus began my decades long journey in and out of therapy to deal with self esteem, divorce, life in general. It has been a process over the years, but I have learned to love myself, forgive myself and trust myself that I am not only worthy but that I deserve love as much as I give it generously. Now, that doesn't mean my subconscious doesn't still exist, it does. But I feel that I have come a long, long way to the point that I don't recognize that young insecure person that I was. I relate to her for sure, but I am not her anymore. I have a son that I love so much and he has been raised far differently that I was. He is loved, supported, respected as an individual. He will still face his own obstacles in life, but I will always be here to love and support him. I won't say I have been a perfect parent but I have tried my best. I have acknowledged to him when I was wrong and apologized for times I hurt his feelings. He is worthy of that. I see him as a gift to me, a way to redeem my own childhood in a way. Anyway, I just learned about the actual term Avoidant Attachment a few weeks ago after the ghosting breakup from my FA ex bf. It has been enlightening and very, very helpful in processing this breakup. I thank you all for your input and sharing your feelings and thoughts. I has helped tremendously
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Post by anne12 on Aug 16, 2019 7:05:15 GMT
jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/905/fightingA shut down often happens because the person gets into a trauma whirlwind. If the person is not able to stop and get out of the trauma whirlwind, they have to go all the way through it. It can be a very unpleasant experience. Then the person is not able to use their pre frontal cortex and is not able to stay precent in the precent moment. It is different for different people, what triggers them. Also your body language, your tone of voice and how you look in your face and in your eyes, what kind of words you use, can be triggering. Our old part of our brain divides people into friend or enemy. How aware are you of yourself, when you are fighting/arguing with someone ? And how aware are you of the micro expressions of the other person, that can show you, that the other person is starting to get triggered ? (fight/flight/freeze) Also people have different temperaments, comes from different upbringings ect. that can affect how the person likes to argue/fight. It can also be beneficial to think about why you are fighting and when and what you are fighting about - and being aware of your own triggers and shame buttons. And your own anger pattern. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1468/anger-integrety-boundaries-ect
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Post by nyc718 on Aug 16, 2019 21:34:08 GMT
jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/905/fightingA shut down often happens because the person gets into a trauma whirlwind. If the person is not able to stop and get out of the trauma whirlwind, they have to go all the way through it. It can be a very unpleasant experience. Then the person is not able to use their pre frontal cortex and is not able to stay precent in the precent moment. It is different for different people, what triggers them. Also your body language, your tone of voice and how you look in your face and in your eyes, what kind of words you use, can be triggering. Our old part of our brain divides people into friend or enemy. How aware are you of yourself, when you are fighting/arguing with someone ? And how aware are you of the micro expressions of the other person, that can show you, that the other person is starting to get triggered ? (fight/flight/freeze) Also people have different temperaments, comes from different upbringings ect. that can affect how the person likes to argue/fight. It can also be beneficial to think about why you are fighting and when and what you are fighting about - and being aware of your own triggers and shame buttons. And your own anger pattern. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1468/anger-integrety-boundaries-ectanne12 thank you for this info. So my question is, if someone gets into this trauma whirlwind you speak of, how long and what does it take to get out of it? I was with this man for over a year. This was probably the third or fourth argument we got into during that time. To me, that's not a lot, and to me, that's kind of normal. I don't know what it means to him though, but clearly it means something very bad. For me, I feel like it was a normal misunderstanding and miscommunication where we were both at fault. However, I don't feel like any of those three incidents were anything to break up an otherwise great relationship. Obviously he feels differently. I am just trying to get some understanding. Had I known what I know now, I obviously would have handled it differently, but because I didn't know what I now know, I handled it the way I always have, with some anger at the situation because well, I felt angry. I didn't blow up at him, but I wasn't happy and that was clear. I have seen him angry too though, not at me, but he was angry at his job situation and I swear he took it out on me in a pretty hostile way. I didn't take it personally because I knew it wasn't about me, but it certainly seemed directed at me. I know if I wasn't as strong as I was, I might have burst into tears with the way he was speaking to me. My point is, I feel like he should understand that we have emotions, and sometimes they get the best of us. That doesn't mean it defines us though, right? |
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Post by anne12 on Aug 17, 2019 0:39:00 GMT
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Post by anne12 on Aug 17, 2019 9:07:13 GMT
Also a good advise is to stop using Words like "should" or "shouldn't" "supposed to" ect. about yourself or other people.
It drains your own and other people's lifeenergy and it keeps you in a victim role.
It can also create shame on yourself or another person.
Also parents can shame their child in this way - verbally or non verbally.
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