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Post by howpredictable on Jul 14, 2017 5:31:42 GMT
I understand all too well why an Anxious/Preoccupied person might be drawn to a Dismissive Avoidant. But I can't quite fathom what the draw would be in the opposite direction.
To give this comment some context:
I am a Avoidant myself, but a few months ago ended a longer relationship with a much MORE AVOIDANT partner (he was very clearly of the Dismissive variety). During the relationship I became much more Anxious, in the face of his very high levels of Avoidance.
So I've seen (and lived) both sides of this equation.
Now, I'm back to dating a selection of men. True to form, my Anxious Attachment-related issues have subsided and my Avoidance is in high gear again. The elusive guys I'm dating are quite appealing, while the needy / anxious ones are turning me off. In fact, I just cut one of them off entirely, he was literally triggering a state of anxiety in me, even from just texting me somewhat often and asking me out so persistently. I was starting to feel smothered, and like I had to run.
I assume that the Avoidant I dated would have had similar anxiety from having to deal with me and my relative "neediness" that surfaced during our relationship. And I'm sure now that we're broken up and NC, he's feeling nothing but relief from the "demands" of our relationship. But since he was likely feeling imposed upon and enmeshed and subsumed and smothered right from the beginning, I wonder what would have been the appeal of dating the Anxious version of me?
I can see why an Anxious person would be drawn to an Avoidant one, if only because of the "thrill of the chase" -- i.e. there is a challenge at play and in the face of an aloof Avoidant partner there can be a great deal of potential validation to be had in the (impossible) event that the Avoidant eventually allows for closeness intimacy. Not to mention the Anxious person's past childhood/family dynamic, repetition compulsion, etc etc. that creates an irresistible pull.
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Post by abolish on Jul 14, 2017 13:28:42 GMT
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guava
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Post by guava on Jul 14, 2017 22:51:04 GMT
What types of behavior do you classify as anxious or needy though? I have noticed that everybody has their own definition. For example, I consider myself to be pretty secure in relationships. However, my DA ex told me I was being needy during times when no other person would have considered that needy. For example, he told me that he wants to be with somebody who understands if he needs to not talk for two weeks while working on a project and that he knew I wouldn't be okay with that. Or another time I was extremely ill and needed his help with a few things around the house and he considered that as needy.
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guava
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Post by guava on Jul 14, 2017 22:53:36 GMT
3) they just want benefits of a relationship, feel lonely or whatever, want to conform to the society's expectations so they look for a partner, a secure person won't tolerate their behaviour so they're left with anxious who are attracted to them- little work for them Also, Abolish, that is interesting that you said "little work for them" -- my ex used to say just that. He said he wanted to put in as little work as possible into relationships. Is this a common thought amongst people with DA? |
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Post by abolish on Jul 15, 2017 17:30:29 GMT
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soho
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Post by soho on Aug 23, 2017 15:46:12 GMT
Wondering if there was a conclusion on this. Is it about getting attention, being heard and having fun?
And what makes will motivate a dismissive person to stay in a relationship?
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Post by howpredictable on Aug 23, 2017 18:38:11 GMT
Since starting this thread, I ran into my Ex and asked him this same question. He said that he knew he has a pattern of suddenly leaving relationships, and that with me he was trying hard to "break the pattern". Clearly, the experiment was not a success. I will have to thank him later.  |
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soho
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Post by soho on Aug 23, 2017 19:54:35 GMT
Since starting this thread, I ran into my Ex and asked him this same question. He said that he knew he has a pattern of suddenly leaving relationships, and that with me he was trying hard to "break the pattern". Clearly, the experiment was not a success. I will have to thank him later. Not impressive indeed. That's sad. Seems his dismissive drive is stronger than his ratio. |
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Post by jaleesa on Aug 24, 2017 11:20:39 GMT
3) they just want benefits of a relationship, feel lonely or whatever, want to conform to the society's expectations so they look for a partner, a secure person won't tolerate their behaviour so they're left with anxious who are attracted to them- little work for them Also, Abolish, that is interesting that you said "little work for them" -- my ex used to say just that. He said he wanted to put in as little work as possible into relationships. Is this a common thought amongst people with DA? In my experience it is. My ex never said it, but I could feel it. He never wanted to do things together and never initiated anything. He was definitely in for all the benefits and when the going got tough, he bailed on me every time. He always said that a relationship should be easy and drama-free. Although I agree with that to a certain extent, he did not make it easy for me at all haha. |
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Post by abolish on Sept 1, 2017 8:57:20 GMT
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Post by jaleesa on Sept 1, 2017 9:38:49 GMT
I'm not an expert, but yesterday I read that it's all about control. DAs are good as long as they feel in control. Avoidant + avoidant will often lack the 'glue' that makes them stick together, because they both avoid and can't give each other the reassurance or validation they actually need on an unconscious level. This is probably why anxious and avoidants are drawn to each other. I guess avoidants need to be chased, because this reassures them that their anxious partner will stay no matter what. It's very contradictory though. They need validation and connection but run from it at the same time, which creates this toxic pattern of push-pull.
@ Abolish:
It's hard and you will probably feel like this is never going to end, but it will get easier, I promise! Stick to no contact and try to focus on yourself. In the end it will be worth it!
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Post by abolish on Sept 1, 2017 9:59:21 GMT
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Post by DearLover on Sept 1, 2017 10:08:01 GMT
I agree with the CONTROL idea.
It seems to me that Avoidants constantly shit-test their partners and find very subtle or not so subtle ways to control and exercise power... a secure person won't stick for long. Specially the DA types who have more narcissistic traits... they need to feel superior and have the upper hand/last word and an A~P is the perfect partner for them.
Once they let the guard down, relax a bit more, become a bit more vulnerable, they think that they are loosing control, they start to fear abandonment too, since they don't love themselves they don't believe that somebody will love them if they get to know who they really are.
I know in my heart that I connected deeply and beautifully with my DA in very few occasions and the irony is that I started to love him more for who he is authentically. The facade, the mask his was wearing to project a stronger image to the outer world was turning me off. But since he was so 'busy' we couldn't spend much time together and since he spoiled the whole thing by avoiding me when we needed each other the most, I couldn't express this to him. I didn't exactly know it myself...actually I had the feelings...just couldn't put them into words and linear thoughts. Also I kept concentrating on my behaviour and on what I was doing right or wrong, trying not to scare him away, not knowing that it had little to do with me anyway.
Better work on my security and just be myself in the relationship instead of trying to analyse and curb the preoccupation and anxiety every second of the day.
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Post by meimei on Sept 1, 2017 17:23:35 GMT
Wow- i can relate to so much of what everyone here is sharing.
It appears that since DA's and Ap's are both insecure attachment styles, we validate each other's sense of self worth and or worthlessness. The AP's fear being abandoned so we are subconsciously drawn to those who abandon us. The DA's fear of abandoment is masked by a false sense of entitlement and superiority in which the AP partner validates with their neediness.
I believe that "some" Anxious Preoccupieds may also be codependents. If you do identify yourself as a codependent, do some research about narcissists (narcissists have many of the avoidant traits). Ive read that there is a tendency for codependents to match up with narcissistis which is a highly toxic and abusive duo, that never ends well.
I can sympathize and relate to Dear Lovers experiences in connecting to her partner when he is vulnerable and being his true authentic self. This vulnerable side of my partner that is rarely shown is what I cherish and keeps me feeling that there is hope. But he also states that vulnerability is a weakness and as a creative person who spent many of my younger years writing poetry, its a challenge being with someone who cannot embrace what I hold so dear to my heart.
Probably the most difficult challenge here (for those of us who are preoccupieds) is to respect our partners differences. Loving them means accepting them for who they are today, and not for the potential that we see in them. It is not our duty to change anyone else. We can be supportive and help our partners when they ask for help (which is not often, lol) and focus "change" within ourselves. We can work towards being a more secure person which starts with creating healthy boundaries for ourselves.
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Post by DearLover on Sept 1, 2017 19:13:38 GMT
Yes and yes. That is why I recommended the book "Women Who Love Too Much" in the other thread. This book was recommended to me about 3 years ago when I was separating from my FA ex husband but the title repelled me too much. After a year of being single and a short fling with another FA then yet another year of being single and my last 9 months relationship with my DA ex, I finally cave in and read the book (actually I read the second book, 'Letters from Women Who Love Too Much". I am yet to read the original one. I started reading right before my relationship came to an end. I wish I had read it before it started.
I urge every A~P to at least have a look at these books and see if something there can be useful.
It is a long road but it got to be worth at the end.
And I quote:
"When confronted by a foe
Praise them
Bless them
Let them go"
What gives me comfort is that I ended my relationship out of love for myself and out of love for him because I didn't want to keep complaining and asking him to change. I still love him and I pray that he finds whatever he is looking for, whatever will make him free from pain, whatever will make him happy. It hurts that he chose to ignore me and didn't give me closure, didn't say good bye, but I keep telling myself that this has more to do with his character than mine. Still, not easy.
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