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Post by iz42 on Sept 18, 2019 4:16:52 GMT
NC is really hard. I am constantly tempted to break it. I guess the only good part is that my anxiety has gone way down. I'm realizing how stressful it was to be constantly waiting for my FA ex to return or stop stonewalling. Even when things were good, I was always slightly on edge, waiting for the next deactivation. It was a roller coaster of inconsistent reinforcement. I was on a downward spiral to the point where I felt like I would never be able to step away. At the end, my emotions were amplified -- I was feeling rage, jealousy, and bitterness at levels that I've never experienced before. That certainly got my attention. There were compounding factors with substance abuse and other women cycling in and out, and I know that those elements put my situation outside the realm of attachment, but on the other hand, those elements seem like symptoms of larger issues. And seeing my ex as FA makes a lot of sense and helps me understand our dynamic. There was abuse involved, and I go back and forth about this, but I don't think he intended to hurt me in the ways that he did. I definitely struggled with enmeshment and emotional codependency, though I think this perspective is useful as well: motivationandchange.com/can-we-let-the-myth-of-codependency-go-away/. I used his attention and the whole roller coaster of emotion as a distraction from problems in my own life. The calm is strange but at some moments I can see myself starting to feel more solid, which is a step in the right direction. When you're conditioned to expect highs and lows and inconsistency over a period of years, it's incredible to realize that relationships don't have to look like that. |
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Post by serenity on Sept 18, 2019 5:21:30 GMT
Thanks for writing this iz42, its encouraging to hear that you are starting to feel less anxious and on more solid ground right now. I feel the rollercoaster served to help me avoid grief and other problems caused by the relationship itself as well. But I believe I was drawn in by his better nature, and his consistent love and attention, which felt secure for many months. Looking at what the relationship became, I honestly don't think I'd have chosen that. And I don't choose that.
You know something that helped me find my way out of this, apart from this forum, is my married male friends. There were times when I confided my relationship hardships in them, and I realized, it kind of hurt them seeing a woman like me choose a flakey irresponsible guy. They made choices and sacrifices every day to benefit their kids and wives, the actively tried to better themselves and be good people. They were perfectly capable of cheating and being jerks, but chose not to be. And here I was, rewarding someone who didn't try at all. My freinds tried to alert me, care for me, talk to me when they could see i was hurting and dissociating. I think if I let the relationship go on, I would have lost their respect, I would sent the message that their efforts to be good people don't count, and I didn't want to lose such good stable people from my life.
You're right, relationships very rarely look as bad as what you've experienced. Stay strong! I will too.
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Post by iz42 on Sept 18, 2019 20:06:22 GMT
serenity that’s really interesting about your married male friends. I don’t actually have many of those, perhaps just one online friend who would qualify  But I know what you mean — it’s frustrating for friends on the outside to see someone putting up with a partner treating them so badly. So yes, perhaps you would have lost their respect in some ways. But these things often take time and patience too. I appreciated my friends’ perspectives but they were hard to hear. Especially after I cut off contact I needed a lot of support and empathy. At that point my best friend basically said I should have known better than to get involved with him. I know she meant well but it made me want to beat myself up even more than I already was. I’ve been wondering about what constitutes abuse and whether my ex has NPD or narcissistic traits. I find that all of these labels are a little blurry and nobody fits perfectly into one box. Saying that he was verbally or emotionally abusive sounds extreme and I wonder if I’m overblowing things. He was charming, inconsistent, and flirted with other women while we were together. I suspect that he cheated on me. He made me feel like I was overreacting to his alcoholism for a long time. He had trouble taking responsibility and empathy was lacking. But maybe I can’t actually say that there was abuse? Maybe I overreacted? I don’t know. Clearly it was my own issues that kept me around for so long. Glad to hear you’re staying strong!! It’s not easy.
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Post by number9 on Sept 18, 2019 20:58:36 GMT
Thanks for writing this iz42, its encouraging to hear that you are starting to feel less anxious and on more solid ground right now. I feel the rollercoaster served to help me avoid grief and other problems caused by the relationship itself as well. But I believe I was drawn in by his better nature, and his consistent love and attention, which felt secure for many months. Looking at what the relationship became, I honestly don't think I'd have chosen that. And I don't choose that. You know something that helped me find my way out of this, apart from this forum, is my married male friends. There were times when I confided my relationship hardships in them, and I realized, it kind of hurt them seeing a woman like me choose a flakey irresponsible guy. They made choices and sacrifices every day to benefit their kids and wives, the actively tried to better themselves and be good people. They were perfectly capable of cheating and being jerks, but chose not to be. And here I was, rewarding someone who didn't try at all. My freinds tried to alert me, care for me, talk to me when they could see i was hurting and dissociating. I think if I let the relationship go on, I would have lost their respect, I would sent the message that their efforts to be good people don't count, and I didn't want to lose such good stable people from my life. You're right, relationships very rarely look as bad as what you've experienced. Stay strong! I will too. I totally get that re: men who support the idea of us being treated better. One of my male friends was so outraged about what I've been "putting up with" that he (half-jokingly) tried to grab my phone so he could text a few choice words to my FA boyfriend and then delete him from my contacts! I'm still thinking about how I can get out of the situationship, which is so complicated because of shared friends and creative projects. "No contact" is pretty much impossible, so I'm just trying to figure out how to do it -- as if I need an "exit strategy" and a good place to land when I'm over-the-top with sadness about it all. Your message to stay strong is very encouraging. I hope you are doing as well as can be! |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 18, 2019 22:01:56 GMT
iz42, I'd say making you doubt your reality is abuse. Even if it was to support his continued addiction and not intended to hurt you, it's still pretty major manipulation.
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Post by iz42 on Sept 19, 2019 0:51:12 GMT
alexandra that was my gut response too. It was very confusing because sometimes he would acknowledge the problem and other times it was all about me being uptight. It went back and forth and kept me thinking that he would come around, similar to the hot/cold messages I was getting in general. learned a lesson because I truly believed that if I could explain things in the right way he would understand my perspective and stop gaslighting me. That's just not how it works.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2019 1:30:24 GMT
alexandra that was my gut response too. It was very confusing because sometimes he would acknowledge the problem and other times it was all about me being uptight. It went back and forth and kept me thinking that he would come around, similar to the hot/cold messages I was getting in general. learned a lesson because I truly believed that if I could explain things in the right way he would understand my perspective and stop gaslighting me. That's just not how it works. I had that experience too, and my role in this situation is that I was not certain of myself if I was being unreasonable/uptight/whatever, and thus was swayed by him. I looked to him to validate my discomfort, and of course that validation would come only when he had resources to deal with it. I felt gaslit too, because my inner world is so open to his influence that I chose to believe everything he says, even if they're contradictory, rather than have my own truth and take his inconsistencies as is - inconsistencies. |
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Post by serenity on Sept 19, 2019 6:12:03 GMT
serenity that’s really interesting about your married male friends. I don’t actually have many of those, perhaps just one online friend who would qualify But I know what you mean — it’s frustrating for friends on the outside to see someone putting up with a partner treating them so badly. So yes, perhaps you would have lost their respect in some ways. But these things often take time and patience too. I appreciated my friends’ perspectives but they were hard to hear. Especially after I cut off contact I needed a lot of support and empathy. At that point my best friend basically said I should have known better than to get involved with him. I know she meant well but it made me want to beat myself up even more than I already was. I’ve been wondering about what constitutes abuse and whether my ex has NPD or narcissistic traits. I find that all of these labels are a little blurry and nobody fits perfectly into one box. Saying that he was verbally or emotionally abusive sounds extreme and I wonder if I’m overblowing things. He was charming, inconsistent, and flirted with other women while we were together. I suspect that he cheated on me. He made me feel like I was overreacting to his alcoholism for a long time. He had trouble taking responsibility and empathy was lacking. But maybe I can’t actually say that there was abuse? Maybe I overreacted? I don’t know. Clearly it was my own issues that kept me around for so long. Glad to hear you’re staying strong!! It’s not easy. I have experiences like that as well, iz42. Some friends will not understand, others will say `you picked an abuser, its your fault' and others will feel afraid to hear about people like this and say stuff like `you should have known'. It can be frustrating when you are misunderstood. You picked someone for the love they gave you, like everyone else does. You stayed because love is not a switch you can easily turn off , at the first sign of strife. There's no way you can know a person is an abuser in intimate relationships, without getting to know them intimately. Most of their freinds don't see that side, because they are not intimate with them. Luckily my male friends just think my ex lacks class, is a flake, and lacks responsibility in relationships. For them, guys like that deserve consequences for their behaviour. Regarding dealing with NPD, I'm sure you came to this conclusion yourself, but you gotta just move on because they can't change. Whether you frame it via mental health, or attachment theory, Narcs have the inner resources to punish you very, very badly for having healthy boundaries with them. The conscience isn't there, they are self serving only. Whatever good qualities he has, that man is not worth your valuable attention, and you can do a whole lot better. |
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Post by iz42 on Sept 21, 2019 3:48:14 GMT
Thank you serenity. At this point I'm still debating whether he is full blown NPD or just has some traits. Or FA behaviors that look narcissistic. But I do absolutely deserve better. |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 21, 2019 7:30:45 GMT
Thank you serenity. At this point I'm still debating whether he is full blown NPD or just has some traits. Or FA behaviors that look narcissistic. But I do absolutely deserve better. When I've had both my FA exes use nitpicking over long periods of time to distance and avoid when triggered by our closeness, I've wondered if they were narcissists. But once their triggering episodes ended, they were back to normal and sweet. So they don't have pathological personality disorders, but they lean into self-protection above anything else and it wasn't fair to me and I couldn't live that way. So the only reason it mattered was in deciding if I wanted to stay friends in the future or go no contact forever if it was a personality disorder. |
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Post by iz42 on Sept 22, 2019 20:04:32 GMT
alexandra He was back to normal and sweet when the triggering episodes ended too. So I don't know. And yeah - I'm going to have to make a call eventually about whether we can be friends in any capacity. I know that's a long way off now and I don't need to worry about it yet. I need to work on myself and get over him altogether before I can even consider being friends. I'm hurting a lot right now. I've been good about staying off of social media until today when I impulsively checked his new girlfriend's page and saw a photo from a romantic getaway that they had last weekend. I learned my lesson there. I feel sick and like I've been punched in the gut. I won't be able to take care of myself if I keep getting triggered like this. I just can't know about what they're up to. This is the third person he's dated since we broke up and the others only lasted a month or two. But this seems different - they look really happy together. He gave me all of these nitpicking reasons why he can't have a serious relationship with her but it appears that he's leaving that stuff behind.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 23, 2019 0:04:00 GMT
iz42, appears... if he hasn't worked on his issues, you know they will repeat. Even if it takes a while. His nitpicking her to someone else, and to his ex at that, shows he's not done the work. I've had FA exes do that, and even though they committed to the women in some capacity they complained to me about, the one relationship that survived is not one I'd want. He's not going anywhere and will stay with her, but it's obvious from how he talks about it that he still keeps himself emotionally one foot out the door. Ugh, no thanks. Keep it out of your life for now and make more room for yourself. Hopefully one day you'll heal enough to be happy for him if he is happy, but that's much easier said than done when it comes to exes in new relationships... or maybe after enough distance, you won't even care about who he's seeing or not seeing.
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Post by iz42 on Sept 29, 2019 2:46:42 GMT
Thanks alexandra . Your advice was wise as always. I have an update: I've been slowly healing from this latest social media trigger and doing ok overall, when my ex's current girlfriend called me out of the blue. It was so weird that I wasn't sure whether to pick up, but I thought maybe there was an emergency. She was drunk and she said she'd gone through his phone and looked at all our texts. She kept apologizing for his behavior and asking me what she should do about their relationship. Apparently he has started drinking again. The whole thing felt soo inappropriate. I was so shocked I could hardly speak. Today I feel super icky and like I know too much about what's going on. Despite all of this I think they will stay together. I just happened to get pulled into a big fight. I don't know what to do. Obviously I still need to maintain NC with him but the whole conversation really threw me off. If she had approached it differently I probably would have been ok with it, but I feel kind of violated that she looked at our texts. It feels like she crossed a line. This is a huge lesson about not trusting what you see on social media... but it doesn't make me feel better at all. I feel gross.  |
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Post by dhali on Sept 29, 2019 3:51:40 GMT
That’s sort of sad. You’re on the better side of the line. Being that woman sounds like a tough way to live. Attachment issues could be mitigated immensely by just reminding one self to have self respect. And if you don’t have it, ask yourself what a person with self respect would do. Do that, and you will develop self respect. Who cares how it feels just do it. That woman has no self respect.
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Post by iz42 on Sept 29, 2019 18:30:25 GMT
dhali Yeah, just seemed like extreme AP behavior. It seems that he is triggering her too, which isn’t a big surprise. I understand what you meant about self respect but sometimes our attachment activations are very strong.
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But I know what you mean — it’s frustrating for friends on the outside to see someone putting up with a partner treating them so badly. So yes, perhaps you would have lost their respect in some ways. But these things often take time and patience too. 
