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Post by happyidiot on Oct 26, 2019 3:40:20 GMT
Now that I am able to love myself though, I seem to meet a whole lotta FAs! Is it payback? lol. Might be a combination of the fact that avoidants are over-represented in the dating pool, especially as you get older, combined with just being able to see people's attachment issues more clearly now that you know more about it. I keep wondering the same thing though! Is it karma, that I get to be on this side of it now? |
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Post by stu on Oct 26, 2019 3:40:43 GMT
I guess I was asking if you think being with an unaware FA would be a good idea for the OP. I think like you mentioned that certain things can help even an unaware FA, however eventually without awareness about what's going on or looking for guidance with challenges. At some point the de activation and pull away still happens. Maybe being with someone very secure, loving, and patient is very helpful in many ways. And is healing in different senses as well. But then there is the aspect of self work as well, and if the person is willing to move into that or not. Perhaps a relationship with a solid person can help them get comfortable and then along with that mentioning or having an open conversation about working through personal challenges and self growth could be put into an aspiration for both people to learn and grow together, and they get to do that. But I feel a lot of people myself included get into this situation where we do our best to be that person for someone, and give things are all. But in some cases the person will shut down and flee at the fear and push of their own inner pain when it comes up. I think some people just aren't in a place to be able to process it yet, no matter how much love and support they have on the outside. And for the other person the relationship or connection will just come to a sudden end. I guess I am referring to the idea of sticking around hoping that eventually things can turn for the better and change in a positive direction. But that's not seeing the situation or person as they are. And is focused on potential rather then reality. A lot of what I am saying is not totally sensical and abstract because im also talking through my own thoughts and recent experiences. And so some of my posts are coming out in a kind of stream of consciousness way. So do not worry if it doesn't all make complete sense haha. I am just trying to make sense of everything myself too. Well it's not necessarily my place to decide who is a "good idea" for someone to be with, because we are all looking for different things. Some people see relationships as valuable and opportunities for growth, even if they don't last forever. My secure ex who I broke up with never ever regretted being with me or thought it was a waste of time. I just do not think ghosting is cool, I find it cruel, and I suggest direct communication rather than tolerating it and acting like nothing happened. FAs can be treated with care and compassion towards our phobia of conflict, sure, but we don't need to be treated like fragile babies, everything on our terms, everyone staying silent about the slightest thing they think might upset us. If the FA person shuts down and flees then so be it. I say this as someone still reeling from my serious partner just shutting down and fleeing from me. Of course and that is all very true and makes sense. I hope my posts do not come across as treating someone with FA as being anything negative. I just think for someone who is unaware and not willing or able to work on themselves and has a lack of communication skills. A relationship would be an extremely difficult thing to navigate. And often at the detriment of a lot of needs of one person in the situation, if they have those needs present. My saying things wasting my time or feeling regretful are just a reflection of the hurt and pain I currently feel after doing nothing but being a great guy, but getting the receiving end of some really harsh distancing behavior, discarding, and replacement with another dude in place of me. |
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 26, 2019 3:53:06 GMT
This is all very true and great to take into consideration, but do you think it would be considered in the case of an FA who is not currently working on themselves seriously, and has a larger awareness about whats going on for them? I did all of these things and was the most caring, patient, and kind person I could be to my FA. Being loving and dependable which she seemed to appreciate and recognize. however the de activations and pushes to get you away can be severe when they aren't fully aware and caught in the middle of that. I don't think its healthy for anyone to get romantically attached to an FA who is not currently self aware or getting any help through their issues. Everyone is deserving of love of course, but getting emotionally entangled to the point of a sexual and romantic relationship with someone who is unaware or not prepared to work through their things just doesn't seem like its ever a healthy pairing for anyone involved or leads to anything positive or rewarding. I remember first reading about avoidant attachment and how a relationship with someone who is secure can help the insecure move more towards secure themselves. But someone with disorganized attachment and emotional trauma has a lot going on, that might not be rectified by having a solid and consistent oak tree of a person in their life, alone. And sometimes having someone not to feed their cycles can make the trauma come out worse, all of these things can be helpful and therapeutic if someone knew what was going on with them and was in full force of wanting to heal themselves and moving past everything that comes along the way as it comes up. But without those things in place a person will just handle the distress in the way which was always easiest for them for their own self preservation and survival. I'm not sure I really understand what you are asking. I'm just saying that it's not actually helping either person to sweep things under the rug. I'm not saying that communicating gently and directly is going to magically cure one's partner's FA-ness. But it's better than the alternative of not saying anything about things that are bothering you, even with an unaware FA. They will feel more unsafe if they feel like neither of you can talk about anything or the rare occasion when you talk about tough issues it's a huge scary fight. And if simply speaking of it at all makes them flee, then I think it's for the best. My longest, healthiest, most secure relationship was with an oak tree who loved me unconditionally and no it didn't heal my attachment issues, but it did help. It was way less triggering to me than other relationships and it did help me in my healing, long before I knew a thing about attachment theory. And that particular relationship was quite secure for a considerable amount of time. But no, it didn't mean that I became secure and then everything was great forever. I still eventually deactivated and didn't understand what was going on. I want to address where you say that they will feel more unsafe if it can't be talked about. Does an FA prefer the partner to bring up any issues, or do they want to bring it up when they feel comfortable? How does an FA best receive this kind of talk that is heavy for them? |
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 26, 2019 4:11:54 GMT
Now that I am able to love myself though, I seem to meet a whole lotta FAs! Is it payback? lol. Might be a combination of the fact that avoidants are over-represented in the dating pool, especially as you get older, combined with just being able to see people's attachment issues more clearly now that you know more about it. I keep wondering the same thing though! Is it karma, that I get to be on this side of it now? They are definitely more in the dating pool as you get older, which SUCKS for me, I'm in my 40s. I had read about that, but I also know just by experience being out there, UGH. SO MANY avoidant men out there. It's so much easier to pinpoint them now for me. And it's depressing how many there are. |
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Post by happyidiot on Oct 26, 2019 4:28:58 GMT
I want to address where you say that they will feel more unsafe if it can't be talked about. Does an FA prefer the partner to bring up any issues, or do they want to bring it up when they feel comfortable? How does an FA best receive this kind of talk that is heavy for them? I think the only way an FA person can feel comfortable bringing up difficult subjects is when they are purposely making an effort to communicate more directly and there is a demonstrated history of difficult subjects being discussed between the two people without anything particularly bad happening. FAs don't prefer to bring up tough stuff ourselves, our nature is to avoid, and to fear confrontation/conflict. Bringing the thing up when the FA person is extremely triggered isn't going to get good results. But I don't think letting it go too long works either, as the longer it goes the more nerve-wracking it can get in some cases. I'm very self-aware and have made enormous amounts of progress and as we speak I am not talking to someone I care a lot about about something I find scary because they are not reaching out to me or saying anything either. This has been going on for weeks. This person is also FA, more avoidant than me, and I'm confident they will just never say anything if I don't but I'm hoping they will. It's like a standoff. Not really an equivalent situation because I'm feeling hurt by this person's actions, it's not like I did something shitty like ghosting and am just avoiding acknowledging it, but just to illustrate how hard it is to bring up tough stuff. If you bring up issues in a scary way, then no, an FA doesn't prefer that and may shut down. But if you bring them up with skill (you can look up tips on the best ways to bring up tough subjects to anyone, starting with saying loving stuff, talking about your feelings as opposed to blaming them or telling them what to do or what you think they think, staying calm, listening, etc) I think that is the best way to potentially get through to someone. I'm trying to think if I have EVER seen an FA person in the wild bringing up a tough subject, something that their partner (or friend) might be mad at them about, on their own. I'm drawing a blank. I have certainly never had an FA that ghosted me come back and eventually bring up the fact that they ghosted me on their own. These are just my opinions based on my experiences as an FA that has known a lot of FAs and suspected FAs. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 26, 2019 8:25:49 GMT
I think the only way an FA person can feel comfortable bringing up difficult subjects is when they are purposely making an effort to communicate more directly and there is a demonstrated history of difficult subjects being discussed between the two people without anything particularly bad happening. Oh gosh, yes, this. The last short-term thing I had with an FA had like 4 conversations with tense relationship topics over 3 months as we tried to define things or not. Each one was calm and respectful, but I kept having to remind him that I'd never punished him for being honest... because he always held back at first and acted like I would. And then he'd think about it and say hey, that's true, and he'd relax a bit. I was definitely getting projected on and had to keep subtly reminding him I was safe (except then because I was "safe" and he was still unaware and not working on it, he didn't feel triggered anxious enough to want to fully commit, can't win). |
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Post by serenity on Oct 26, 2019 9:15:08 GMT
I'm so impressed you were able to walk away at the right time Alexandra. I can imagine it was still hard on you, as you liked him. But well done! It gives me some hope that these experiences can make us wiser and stronger.
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Post by mrob on Oct 26, 2019 10:03:56 GMT
I just look at that and think...God, we’re hard work!!!
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Post by stu on Oct 26, 2019 10:55:15 GMT
I'm so impressed you were able to walk away at the right time Alexandra. I can imagine it was still hard on you, as you liked him. But well done! It gives me some hope that these experiences can make us wiser and stronger. To my knowledge a lot of Alexandra's wisdom and growth was from working through her own attachment issues and earning secure. Which this site and these experiences can help to push all of us to the do the same as well. It's so motivating to hear about and pushes me to do the same. I agree with Serenity. That must have taken a lot of strength and courage to do. |
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Post by stu on Oct 26, 2019 11:03:07 GMT
I just look at that and think...God, we’re hard work!!! Maybe for an unaware and not working through stuff type of person. But an aware and working through their stuff FA can be a huge inspiration and very rewarding to be with in my opinion. Being with someone who is taking ownership over their struggles and actively trying to grow and expand as a human being are the type of people I love to be around. People that pretend to be "perfect" or have it all figured out, and never went through hardship tend to be shallow in their depth as a person. And gernally the type of people I have a harder time relating to over all myself. I think an insecure who earns secure can actually be even more loving and expansive then a person who was always secure and never had to go through any struggles to get to where they are currently. Self examination and self awareness, along with serious self work and growth can lead someone to be a fully actualized human being. And most people don't have the desire to do all of that work unless they go through a lot of suffering to get to the point of wanting that. Aside from the smaller cases of people who just feel inspired or curious about it. |
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 26, 2019 13:04:48 GMT
I just look at that and think...God, we’re hard work!!! I love my FA Bf so much, I would hate to have to leave him, but he is not aware of himself. I feel like I have the tools and emotional ability to help him through this if he wanted to, but then again, it sounds like he would have to lose me, the best person he's ever been with to maybe even start to grow. So, yes, he's hard work all right.. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 26, 2019 16:12:18 GMT
I'm so impressed you were able to walk away at the right time Alexandra. I can imagine it was still hard on you, as you liked him. But well done! It gives me some hope that these experiences can make us wiser and stronger. To my knowledge a lot of Alexandra's wisdom and growth was from working through her own attachment issues and earning secure. Which this site and these experiences can help to push all of us to the do the same as well. It's so motivating to hear about and pushes me to do the same. I agree with Serenity. That must have taken a lot of strength and courage to do. Yes. I spent most of my life unable to do it, and I've done it at least 3 times this year when faced with incompatible offers / situations because of the 2-3 years I put the work in that led to earning secure. I wish I'd seen that perspective much sooner in my life... I think if I had I'd probably have been married 5-10 years ago. But instead I'd hang out for way too long, being a really good girlfriend, until I was left. I did think it was odd I was always the dumpee, never the dumper, but now I know it's because I wasn't dating with gauging compatibility in mind and feeling self-love. I just didn't want to be left once someone I liked also showed some interest, which was even more curious at the time since I'd spent so much time single and surviving just fine alone as well. |
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 26, 2019 16:33:57 GMT
To my knowledge a lot of Alexandra's wisdom and growth was from working through her own attachment issues and earning secure. Which this site and these experiences can help to push all of us to the do the same as well. It's so motivating to hear about and pushes me to do the same. I agree with Serenity. That must have taken a lot of strength and courage to do. Yes. I spent most of my life unable to do it, and I've done it at least 3 times this year when faced with incompatible offers / situations because of the 2-3 years I put the work in that led to earning secure. I wish I'd seen that perspective much sooner in my life... I think if I had I'd probably have been married 5-10 years ago. But instead I'd hang out for way too long, being a really good girlfriend, until I was left. I did think it was odd I was always the dumpee, never the dumper, but now I know it's because I wasn't dating with gauging compatibility in mind and feeling self-love. I just didn't want to be left once someone I liked also showed some interest, which was even more curious at the time since I'd spent so much time single and surviving just fine alone as well. This thing called life is pretty much all trial and error. If anyone has the handbook on life, please contact me! :-) |
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Post by serenity on Oct 26, 2019 21:22:02 GMT
I just look at that and think...God, we’re hard work!!! Aww.. we all love you mrob, just the way you are. Thanks for being here and helping us with our aches and pains. i know it must be rough listening to us whine all the time. You have such a nice nature. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 26, 2019 21:25:24 GMT
I just look at that and think...God, we’re hard work!!! - Know what? My DA isn’t exactly a downhill ride for me and I still think he’s worth it- I still want to stay rather than walk away. He never believed he was worth it either, but you both should bc you are worth it!! 🙂😉 |
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