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Post by iz42 on Dec 17, 2019 1:31:37 GMT
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Post by confusedm on Dec 17, 2019 2:22:45 GMT
I'm not sure if she's a narcissist. She often displayed empathy about others. The attention-seeking and validation seeking rings a bit true. But when we got together the second time around, she said she often feels like such a weirdo but feels so comfortable being with me and also said she knows she appears to have a hardened outside but she's really sensitive on the inside. Had cried to me about her friends not showing up for her. Doesn't sound like a narcissist that thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread. Most of her posts on Instagram are of just her (not many at all with friends or places), even a couple of her topless with emojis covering her breast, and often posts selfies and pictures in bathing suits on her story. She is an extremely outgoing and bubbly person that makes friends with anybody anywhere. She definitely knows guys vie for her though. Can definitely relate to the whole doubting my reality. Going from being told how in love with me she was, spending so much time with me, being so affectionate, all those things literally with no change up to 2 days before ending things and then absolutely out of nowhere all of a sudden ending things with reasons that make pretty much no sense whatsoever. I've questioned absolutely anything. "They reminisce about the ways their narcissistic partners treated them in the idealization phase, wondering if the new person in the abuser’s life is being treated better." Definitely connect with this. I constantly think about how amazing things were between us and completely excuse, rationalize, look past the messed up things she did throughout our time knowing each other. Thinking the good is the real her and I only got the bad things because we weren't together at those times and somebody is going to get only the best of her. I thought I was an amazing boyfriend and partner until she unloaded all those "reasons" on me which had made me question and second guess everything. There is definitely a part of me that hopes because we are connected like we are that once she grows up a bit and figures her shit out and I figure my shit out, we may get another real shot at it. But I am trying to focus on me and my stuff and get my confidence and happiness back for me because I don't like feeling how I do. |
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Post by amber on Dec 17, 2019 5:23:51 GMT
I have had all the same feelings. You idealise them and then worry they will meet someone else and have an amazing relationship. Not gonna happen unless they work on themselves. Do you know your attachment style? You remind me of myself and I have AP style; it’s fairky classic to idealise partner and ignore the bad things/ red flags as you just focus on keeping the connection as the most critical thing, often regardless of how you are being treated. Did you have parents that were hot/ cold? Sometimes loving, sometimes distant? This creates the AP attachment style
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addict
Junior Member
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Post by addict on Dec 17, 2019 8:25:49 GMT
When you say what I perceive as closeness and love will suffocate her and what she believes is important space and independence... I'm curious about this. Sorry about the time, misinterpreted your post. OK, so you know the thing you mentioned about her seeming to enjoy a date but then going cold afterwards. That's a good example. You probably go on a decent date, have a fun time, and perceive her as doing the same. Now, as a non-avoidant you see that and think "Oh, thats good, we should spend more time together." That's not really how an avoidant thinks (the following statement is a gross over-generalization but it should get the point across) . The avoidant goes on that date, has fun, and then is overwhelmed with the closeness and then disconnects afterwards. This disconnect can be as short as a few days, to going on for a few weeks/months depending on the avoidant. If you don't respect this need for space, its very likely to cause huge problems in the relationship. Even if you do, if the avoidant isn't actively addressing this issue (as you should actively address being what someone would refer to as "clingy" during this time) - then it very likely will continue to get worse over time. Now thats a simple date - the status quo. Now lets move on to some of the things you're talking about. Once you start getting into really important topics: relationship goals, long term commitments, fixing a broken relationship - these are one way tickets to a relationship's destruction with them unless they are actively self-correcting. The expectations absolutely suffocate and stress them to the extent where they feel they have to leave. When you get back together things go great, then they pull away, you pursue, the relationship blows up - thats the typical pattern in something like this and you've indicated it a couple of times. She's right, she can't love you the way you love her. Even if you are willing to do your best to love her for how she is, and wait for her to fix it - A) theres no guarantee that will ever happen and B) she probably associates so much stress with the relationship that it will never be stable again. She's always going to feel the weight of those expectations and the relationship will always "suffocate" her. Thanks cukie, you've helped me to understand this too....especially how they can be after opening up or after a date |
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Post by confusedm on Dec 17, 2019 15:17:16 GMT
I have had all the same feelings. You idealise them and then worry they will meet someone else and have an amazing relationship. Not gonna happen unless they work on themselves. Do you know your attachment style? You remind me of myself and I have AP style; it’s fairky classic to idealise partner and ignore the bad things/ red flags as you just focus on keeping the connection as the most critical thing, often regardless of how you are being treated. Did you have parents that were hot/ cold? Sometimes loving, sometimes distant? This creates the AP attachment style Well I just took a quick Attachment test and got I got 18 Secure, 5 Avoidant/Dismissive, 7 Ambivalent/Anxious, 3 Disorganized so I guess I'm mostly secure with anxious tendencies? But yeah I definitely idealize. I mean some of the things she did that are messed up, she did when we either weren't exclusive or dating at all, so I'm able to rationalize those away, and maybe rightfully so since we weren't together? But at the same time, we are connected through my best friend and her sister, she knew the situation, I think I'm a good person and my attitude towards the whole thing was that it was a very sticky situation and I would never do anything to hurt her or anything like that, so I would think if she were a good person, she would think along the same lines. But she didn't, so I don't know what to think. I really don't remember my parents being hot and cold. I remember them being pretty loving and affectionate. They did get divorced around the age of 11 or 12 and it was not an amicable one. For years I was stuck in between some of their bullshit. I guess I'd also ask if there's anything in my posts that stands out as behavior/things I did that would trigger an avoidant? If not, what kind of things tend to trigger them so maybe I can figure out where it went wrong? Would these things trigger somebody more secure? I just so don't think I was suffocating or anything so very confused what could have set her off. |
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Post by alexandra on Dec 17, 2019 19:52:22 GMT
I really don't remember my parents being hot and cold. I remember them being pretty loving and affectionate. They did get divorced around the age of 11 or 12 and it was not an amicable one. For years I was stuck in between some of their bullshit. This could definitely impact your emotional availability and make you scared of a real and healthy commitment. This is a formative age, and a divorce that wasn't amicable, and which continued to impact you for years, can certainly make you emotionally unavailable and attracted to and running after someone emotionally unstable as you try to deal with and correct these old feelings. Have you been talking to the therapist about this? I guarantee it's a deeper cause for your current pain and patterns than the breakup. Again, read the link in this post in the general section for more information: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2372/overcoupling-stress-response |
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Post by confusedm on Dec 17, 2019 23:16:25 GMT
Yea we've touched on it a bit. She believes I've had some dormant depression since then but was so busy with school and friends and all that that it was mostly masked. I've definitely been unhappy pretty much since I entered the workforce about 8 years ago. Boring jobs, comparing myself to others, and a plethora of other things has definitely lead to me not being the best version of me. Not happy, not confident, low self-esteem. So when I got together with her the first time I was finally deeply happy but then when she blindsided me, I had these issues that I'm guessing lead me to go down the proverbial rabbit hole and blame myself incessantly and not feel good enough and all things like that. Much like what happened the second time around because I never got over her from the first time because we kept seeing each other in group settings and hooking up a few times so that compounded it.
I know I have stuff to work on for sure!
I've started gratitude journaling, meditating, working out, running, Jiu Jitsu, taking singing lessons, playing more guitar again, reading again.
Working on creating an interesting and fulfilling life where I am confident and sure of myself and love myself because I know that's where I need to be.
I think if I can get to that place, should I choose to have another relationship (which at this time, I really don't think I want to), I will be a stronger individual and bring more value to the relationship, and should things go poorly, I'd expect to still be hurt but not to totally break.
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Post by serenity on Dec 18, 2019 3:10:46 GMT
I'm not sure if she's a narcissist. She often displayed empathy about others. The attention-seeking and validation seeking rings a bit true. But when we got together the second time around, she said she often feels like such a weirdo but feels so comfortable being with me and also said she knows she appears to have a hardened outside but she's really sensitive on the inside. Had cried to me about her friends not showing up for her. Doesn't sound like a narcissist that thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread. Most of her posts on Instagram are of just her (not many at all with friends or places), even a couple of her topless with emojis covering her breast, and often posts selfies and pictures in bathing suits on her story. She is an extremely outgoing and bubbly person that makes friends with anybody anywhere. She definitely knows guys vie for her though. That's a great link by iz42. Here's another one that explains both triangulation and intermittent reinforcement a bit. blogs.psychcentral.com/recovering-narcissist/2017/07/the-powerful-effect-of-love-bombing-and-intermittent-reinforcement-on-children-of-narcissists/Triangulation in your situation is her making it known she has the interest of other men, as well as leaving you for other men intermittently since you've known her. Most articles about this refer to conscious manipulators like narcissisists, because its a strategy they use to cause insecurity and exert control over partners. But it doesn't matter if this is done consciously, or unconsciously, or by narcissist or an avoidant, the effect on you as a partner is the same. It'll make you feel competetive, diminished, fearful, and inflate her social value in your eyes. Those articles show how toxic it can be for you, and gives some suggestions as to how to deal with it. Triangulation in relationships is deal breaker for me personally, I would never tolerate it. Healthy couples earn and build trust together, not play games to undermine it. |
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Post by maxymax on Mar 7, 2020 9:08:09 GMT
delete
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Post by confusedm on Mar 7, 2020 9:10:47 GMT
Mostly venting here...
Well because my ex is in my social circle I got to hear about how she went on the boat he was sailing on for a week and then he came back to our city and has now been living with her for two months, went on vacation with her and her entire family for her mother's 60th, and now I get to hear how she trained to get a job with the same sailing company as him and will be living on boats with him for the summer.
If she's so avoidant and can't handle intimacy and closeness and needs distance how the hell is she able to handle literally living with this kid for so long? She had literally only been in person with this guy maybe 15 days before "making it official". And now 1 or 2 months into this relationship he's literally living with her? What the actual f***
It's sickening. The "funny thing" is, one of the times she was with this kid back in end of July/early August on another one of his boats for a week, she had been "dating" another guy for about a month at that point, having posted pictures of them on instagram together, went on this vacation with her now bf, f***ing him all week, and I'm SURE the entire time texting the guy back at home telling him she can't stop thinking about him and wishing he was there and all that, then she came back to this other kid, brought him to her family's vacation home, planned to go to one of his family member's wedding before dumping him cold. Then a month later she goes to UK to see this boat servant and all of sudden it's her boyfriend and he's living with her and on her family's vacation.
I know I'm externally focusing in this post but I'm just venting. I'm so f***ing angry and hurt. That was supposed to be me!
I don't understand if she's supposedly so scared of closeness and intimacy and conflict avoidant how the hell she's able to literally live with this kid 2 whole months
She ended things with me and apparently another guy because I did things she wanted to do too much, she felt partly contained, I based too many decisions on her; then how the hell has this new relationship not set those things off? This kid knows nothing about NYC, doesn't have any friends here, has no life of his own here, she has no time to herself because he's literally living with her with nothing to do without her, she has to bring him to everything, he's not making a majority of plans not knowing anythnig or anybody here, he's literally always doing what she wants to do because what else is he doing!? he's got nobody else to hang out with separate from her. WTF!??
What the hell does this kid have that I don't? What he can sail a boat and she loves boats? I just do not get it at all.
Logically I think that she's really not a good person or at least not somebody I should want to be with considering a lot of things she's done but I still miss her, still want her back, still emotionally feel messed up over her. I wish I could somehow get the logic to click with my emotions. I wish I could genuinely hate her. Instead I feel like if I had been the guy for her she never would have done the things she did and so far it seems she's treating this new boat servant boyfriend like the best thing since sliced bread and wouldn't even think about doing similar things to him that she did to me.
Battling to keep my internal monologue about me and all the good things I'm doing to change my life. How I'm working on improving myself and she's not doing s***. That I have so much going for me. That she doesn't deserve me. But you know how no matter what you say in your head to yourself but you still have that sinking feeling in your chest and gut? yea...
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 7, 2020 15:44:03 GMT
Mostly venting here... Well because my ex is in my social circle I got to hear about how she went on the boat he was sailing on for a week and then he came back to our city and has now been living with her for two months, went on vacation with her and her entire family for her mother's 60th, and now I get to hear how she trained to get a job with the same sailing company as him and will be living on boats with him for the summer. If she's so avoidant and can't handle intimacy and closeness and needs distance how the hell is she able to handle literally living with this kid for so long? She had literally only been in person with this guy maybe 15 days before "making it official". And now 1 or 2 months into this relationship he's literally living with her? What the actual f*** It's sickening. The "funny thing" is, one of the times she was with this kid back in end of July/early August on another one of his boats for a week, she had been "dating" another guy for about a month at that point, having posted pictures of them on instagram together, went on this vacation with her now bf, f***ing him all week, and I'm SURE the entire time texting the guy back at home telling him she can't stop thinking about him and wishing he was there and all that, then she came back to this other kid, brought him to her family's vacation home, planned to go to one of his family member's wedding before dumping him cold. Then a month later she goes to UK to see this boat servant and all of sudden it's her boyfriend and he's living with her and on her family's vacation. I know I'm externally focusing in this post but I'm just venting. I'm so f***ing angry and hurt. That was supposed to be me! I don't understand if she's supposedly so scared of closeness and intimacy and conflict avoidant how the hell she's able to literally live with this kid 2 whole months She ended things with me and apparently another guy because I did things she wanted to do too much, she felt partly contained, I based too many decisions on her; then how the hell has this new relationship not set those things off? This kid knows nothing about NYC, doesn't have any friends here, has no life of his own here, she has no time to herself because he's literally living with her with nothing to do without her, she has to bring him to everything, he's not making a majority of plans not knowing anythnig or anybody here, he's literally always doing what she wants to do because what else is he doing!? he's got nobody else to hang out with separate from her. WTF!?? What the hell does this kid have that I don't? What he can sail a boat and she loves boats? I just do not get it at all. Logically I think that she's really not a good person or at least not somebody I should want to be with considering a lot of things she's done but I still miss her, still want her back, still emotionally feel messed up over her. I wish I could somehow get the logic to click with my emotions. I wish I could genuinely hate her. Instead I feel like if I had been the guy for her she never would have done the things she did and so far it seems she's treating this new boat servant boyfriend like the best thing since sliced bread and wouldn't even think about doing similar things to him that she did to me. Battling to keep my internal monologue about me and all the good things I'm doing to change my life. How I'm working on improving myself and she's not doing s***. That I have so much going for me. That she doesn't deserve me. But you know how no matter what you say in your head to yourself but you still have that sinking feeling in your chest and gut? yea... So....it is really good you are venting here and not...say....in your car, as in being an aggressive driver. The fact is...no one can speak to the dynamic she has with him....it would all just be speculation and really, I don’t think it would be helpful to go down that rabbit hole. Is there any way that you can ask your friends to not talk about her? Is there a way that you can disconnect from her life? I suspect you know this...but hearing about her, seeing her FB, Instagram feeds will only keep you trapped in “why” ruminations. It will never lead to the answers you are trying to seek. Also, comparing yourself to the new guy is fruitless because you are likely comparing what you see on his outside (physical appearance etc) to your inside (feelings, beliefs etc). I think a clean break in anything to do with her will do wonders for your ability to move on. |
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Post by serenity on Mar 7, 2020 22:24:56 GMT
Confusedm, Avoidants can do 3-6 month honeymoons just fine, and she's only been with this new person 2 months. I'd say she is behaving true to type.
I love trn9's suggestions, and totally agree with her. You don't `have to hear' about her. Just gently let your acquaintances/friends know you wish to not hear about her. And stay away from her social media. Its awfully hard to do, but reading about her new relationship is so bad for your mental health and recovery.
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Post by ik2020 on Mar 9, 2020 10:01:09 GMT
So sorry you're going through this confusedm... A lot of us on here have been through it too and know the pain you are currently feeling. As others have said it really is a case of focusing less on her and more on yourself (easy to say and incredibly difficult in practice!) and keep reading the boards... There is so much good advice contained within. I wish you all the best.
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Post by confusedm on Mar 11, 2020 23:55:05 GMT
Confusedm, Avoidants can do 3-6 month honeymoons just fine, and she's only been with this new person 2 months. I'd say she is behaving true to type. I love trn9's suggestions, and totally agree with her. You don't `have to hear' about her. Just gently let your acquaintances/friends know you wish to not hear about her. And stay away from her social media. Its awfully hard to do, but reading about her new relationship is so bad for your mental health and recovery. Maybe but apparently she's also gotten certified to go work on boats with him all summer in europe. That sounds sort of not avoidant? Future plans, commitments, etc... That's not for another 2-3 months and is another 3-4 month commitment to basically living together and sailing around europe. I just don't get it. My roommate who is friends with the people that connect this whole situation actually said to me that they're not even that big of fans of this guy. I just don't understand how she's able to have this guy living with her, he's completely dependent on her and her choices, she gets no room to be her own person and do her own things because he has no life here, and now she's committed to living with him in europe. just like wtf man I am trying to focus more internally but feel it's safe to vent my more external stuff here. I'm training for a triathlon, a marathon, I'm doing BJJ, I'm getting back into music (I sing, play guitar and piano), I'm looking into taking up boxing. I try to give myself positive self talk all the time. I'm doing good things for myself for sure and do feel better. But some of this just fucking kills me and so I come here |
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Post by serenity on Mar 12, 2020 0:10:42 GMT
I would consider that she is likely also narcissistic, which involves its own set of motivations. A submissive younger man, the boating stuff, could be good fodder for instagram and gaining a bunch of attention. Or it could be her future faking during the honeymoon, and she'll back out of it when push comes to shove.
In any case, she wasn't good for you. Please be kind to yourself and stay away from her business? You can do a lot better.
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