Coping with broken trust in AP/DA relationship
Dec 15, 2019 23:29:45 GMT
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katie454e likes this
Post by nikki on Dec 15, 2019 23:29:45 GMT
Hi everyone .... first time posting here and a relative newbie to attachment theory. I discovered it about 2 months ago during therapy sessions I went to in an attempt to figure out what was wrong with my approach to my relationship.
I think I’m AP ( possibly quite severely so but not sure?) and I think he is DA?
I find it a bit scary to share as I know I talk too much and can be too detailed and overthink things. Please don’t hold back on honesty and don’t be afraid to tell me if I’m in the wrong. Honest feedback is always a valuable gift ... especially as I’m still learning.
Bullet point summary of my relationship thus far (Gosh, just reread what I wrote below and it’s awfully long - I’m really sorry!! I have been too afraid to tell my friends the full story so I think I got carried away in the rush of getting it all out).
* I came out of a 15 year long relationship (married for 10 of those) 4 years ago.
* my marriage was ... difficult .... and eventually emotionally and verbally abusive. Not excessively bad though but still unpleasant
* I met Tom (my current partner) 3.5 years ago
* I am currently 41 and Tom is 50
* He’s never been married but, based on what he’s mentioned, has had quite a lot of relationships .... I think 3 or 4 serious ones lasting around the 3-4 year mark but quite a lot of others that lasted less than a year. Longest relationship being 6 years when he was in his late 20s. Tbh I don’t know exact history as I’ve never actively asked detailed questions, just info I’ve gleaned along the way.
* we clicked instantly and he told me loads of lovely things about how he knew I’d be the women’s who would never met him down, how he had always wanted someone like me, that he couldn’t wait for my divorce to come through so that we could move in together ( I had started my divorce before meeting him but it was loooooooong and drawn out process so took years to finally go through)
* I was very honest upfront about my personality type and my weaknesses and explained that, based on my history, i have self esteem and confidence issues and have a tendency to be quite emotional and need reassurance as I often assume everything is my fault and panic. I also told him I wanted to take it slow initially and only see him on weekends that I didn’t have my daughter (her dad has her every other weekend).
* he said he liked the fact that I was sensitive and caring and wore my heart on my sleeve etc etc He said he was patient and happy to take it slow. He told me he loved me within a month or 2 of dating and even said quite early on that he wanted to marry me as soon as I was officially divorced.
* things were great for the first 12 months - we got together every 2nd weekend (fri night to sun morning) and he would call me every night.
* after a year I said it would be good if we could start spending every weekend together but he then said we shouldn’t until the courts finally approved my divorce as it would potentially make my ex angry if he found out via my daughter that I had met someone.
* I was honest and said that while I understood his point, that it did worry me that maybe things were only working BECAUSE we spent so little time together and that I was concerned that when it all became “real” and the courts approved my divorce, that he would get cold feet and run away.
* he reassured me saying I was just worried unnecessarily and that I should just relax.
* but it niggled in the back of my mind and every few months after that I would check in and say I was feeling anxious and was he really still sure he wanted this because if not he could be honest. I explained that it would be silly to continue if he already knew he didn’t want a serious commitment as I was a mother and therefore wasn’t looking for a part time thing.
* this really annoyed him & he started refusing to engage in a discussion - he was never nasty but would just say “stop worrying” ... literally that was the only 2 words he’d say ... never more than that.
* this is when things started going wrong (around the 18 month mark)
* 1st incident was that I found out via a joke a friend of his made that a women he had started working with was calling and texting him almost daily and had been for a few months.
* this upset me as he had never mentioned her to me even in passing. He had mentioned plenty of his other female friends and I had never ever reacted in a jealous way or been weird about him seeing them. I explained that it wasnt the fact she was calling and texting daily but rather that he hadn’t mentioned it and that it made me feel like he was hiding something
* he apologised and said he completely understood that he handled it badly and would dial it down and not communicate with her outside of work.
* that was that and I didn’t mention it again
* 6 months later we were spending New Year’s Eve together at home and I suddenly was in intense pain ( later found out my appendix burst). I was scared as I didn’t know what was wrong and said I really needed to go into the emergency room straight away.
* he tried to talk me out of it saying how crazy busy the emergency room would be at 10pm on New Year’s Eve and that we would have to wait hours. He said I should instead stay at home and wait for an ambulance to come (we had called earlier but been told it would only arrive in 2 hours).
* I eventually said the pain was too bad and that I was going to drive myself to the hospital as it was just 10mins away (he doesn’t drive)
* he came with but sat in silence next to me and only held my hand briefly if I specifically asked. He wasn’t nasty or unkind just totally cold and seemingly very irritated
* I was extremely upset by this and after 2 days confronted him and told him how alone and sad it made me feel
* he apologised (not in a big way though) and spent most of the time explaining how it’s just because he hates hospitals due to bad experiences in the past
* I didn’t really feel comfortable with his explanation but knew that if I remained upset & brought it up again he would be frustrated. I worried that he was right and that I was creating a mountain out of a molehill. I ended up apologising for overreacting and never mentioned it again.
* My divorce came through in May last year and Tom started coming round every weekend. He would come after work on fri and then set his alarm to wake up at 8am on Sunday so he could be out the door approx 9.30 am. He has never even to this day stayed 1 full sunday with me - he always leaves no later than 10am. Ever.
* Mid last year for my 40th birthday we were heading off for a romantic weekend away. I had noticed that for a few days he had been acting weird and secretive with his phone. I ended up snooping (very bad I know!) and found a message from a woman that was very flirty with lots of hearts and kiss emojis. He had clearly deleted all preceding messages - I could tell the message I saw from her was clearly mid conversation but I couldn’t see any other previous messages in his Whatsapp. To be fair his response was friendly but not flirty. What upset me was that he said “sorry, I can’t text you much this weekend as I’m away with some friends”. He was in fact away with me for my 40th!
* I confronted him and his response was basically to say that it was nothing, just a friend who he met with travelling abroad the month before and that she just wanted to learn about london and that he didn’t think he needed to tell me.
* he refused to answer any questions about who she was and what kind of conversations they had had.
* I told him that I thought his answer was BS as her messsge was flirty ... I said that of course I understood that sometimes it’s nice to be flirted with and that I would understand if he just got a bit carried away because he is human after all, but that I just needed the truth. He said I was imagining things and that it was 100% platonic and that I was ridiculous for being upset and that he had done nothing wrong.
* He promised to block her number but I found out when I checked his phone 2 weeks later that they were still messaging (and he was still deleting the message history)
* The reason he gave for staying in contact was that he doesnt like being told what to do and that he wasnt doing anything wrong anyway.
* I tried to explain that the issue wasn’t the texting per se but rather the fact that he knowingly continued to do something I very clearly told him hurt and upset me.
* He refused to discuss it saying he had already told me nothing happened.
* I was not able to let it go and it massively effected me and made me paranoid and very mistrustful. I did the wrong thing of every few months getting upset and wanting to talk which I know in retrospect was not helpful
* About 6 months later I came home one Friday earlier than expected and he was already at my house. I overheard a conversation he was having with what sounded like a work colleague... he had said he was feeling stressed at work and she had responded with something like “oh what can I do to help/cheer you up” (I assume as I couldn’t hear her). His response was “well a bit of pussy would be nice”.
* I totally freaked out and got super angry. I won’t pretend I was calm and reasonable and kind. I was not. I shouted and called him an asshole and cried and shouted some more for at least 45mins before pulling myself together and calming down.
* He said I was totally overreacting and it was just a joke.
* He point blank refuses to tell me who she was or whether she was a friend or work colleague. He wouldn’t tell me anything and said it wouldn’t achieve anything and that i was just wanting details to punish him and make him feel embarrassed and like a naughty school boy
* It came out during this argument that despite denying it at the time, he had in fact kissed the girl I had found the text messaged from a few months earlier.
* This made things even worse and it made me extra needy for reassurance and I became clingy and kept trying to re-establish intimacy.
* I absolutely know I made many classic AP mistakes and used protest behaviour (such as being quiet and aloof for a bit hoping to make him feel guilty and then being very emotional and loving)
* I also tried to discuss the situation every 3 weeks. I would try to pretend everything was okay but after 3 weekends I would cave in and usually break down in tears and say how anxious and worried I was and that please please could he explain what had happened and give me some sort of reassurance that he realised it was wrong and that he had hurt me. I explained that the act itself wasn’t the thing that really upset me, but rather the fact that he appeared to believe he had done nothing wrong and therefore never apologised. I said this worried me because if he didn’t believe that what he had done was wrong, that I didn’t have any trust/faith that he would do it again.
* Each conversation went worse and worse and we just said the same things over and over. Me emotionally explaining how I was feeling hurt and needed reassurance and an apology and him saying I was creating a problem out of nothing. He would say that he could see the real me now and that I pretended to be a nice person but that in fact I was very very nasty. That I only wanted to talk purely to punish him because i knew he hated talking. He said I got joy out of psychologically torturing him and just wanted to embarrass and punish him for my own sick pleasure. Usually after about an hour of this he would storm out and refuse to talk or text for a day or 2.
* I then found out that on Sunday’s he was visiting 2 different women in their apartments or sometimes going out to a pub or bar. Every time we spoke on Sunday night and discussed what we had each been up to during the day he always said he had spent the day alone wandering g around the city or just gone home. He said both women were just friends and that he had done nothing wrong.
* I tried to explain that it was the lying that was the issue not the fact that he was seeing friends .... I also said that it seemed weird to me that he would lie about something that was innocent.
* He said it was because of my bad reactions in the past and that he didn’t tell me to avoid drama.
* Eventually by about Oct this year he just refused to see or speak to me for days on end
* I left him alone for 2 weeks but then got panicky and again made all the classic AP mistakes - 4 or 5 call attempts in a row and maybe 5-10 long text messages.
* We have seen each other twice since beginning Oct and both times I’ve tried my best to explain how I’m feeling to him and what I need. I try very hard to make all my statements about me & how I’m feeling rather than focused on the specific things that happened although it’s hard not to reference the situations. I explain how the lies and secrets make me anxious and mistrustful. That the kiss or the flirty call are not in themselves such big issues but rather the fact that he would not talk it through and explain it to me. I also say that while I know he finds talking difficult, that I need some reassurance that he understands how upset I am and that I need to feel like he realised that what he did is hurtful and to help me in rebuilding trust. I explain that I know I too have many faults and that I am trying to learn how to deal with things in a healthier and less emotionally chaotic way but that I need him to open up and help explain to me what he needs too so that I can try to meet these needs
* His response both times has been as before ..... he says he loves me and misses me but that due to my “talking nonsense” he doesn’t know if he can still be “in love” with me.
* That he is convinced that the only reason I want to talk is to punish him like a schoolboy and make him feel bad. He says that the real problem is that I insist on talking and that if I had just stopped doing that everything would have been fine with us but that my obsession with wanting to talk things through has created the problem
* He says he can no longer trust me and that he fears I will always want to handle future problems by talking and that it never works to talk
* He says I, like all women, just enjoy creating drama and conflict
* that the real issue is that I am too needy and that actually my real problem with him is the fact that I want to trap him into spending Sunday’s together and that he needs space and time alone (this is confusing as he spends all week alone and I keep saying I would only like to spend occasional Sunday’s together or at least just have him come back in the evening and stay the night)
So I guess I’m just looking for any nuggets of feedback about any part of my situation.
How can I get better at dealing with things in a more secure way but at the same time not just pushing all my needs aside and pretending everything is fine (which I know he would prefer).
What am I doing wrong? Is it wrong to want to talk/discuss these issues.... I am trying so hard to put myself in his shoes but in my heart I don’t feel it’s fair to expect me to just not discuss the lies/secrets. I also in my heart don’t believe it’s unreasonable for me to be very deeply hurt and want some explanation and acceptance of responsibility from him.
Am I just delusional and unable to see that it’s all just my fault?
I think I’m AP ( possibly quite severely so but not sure?) and I think he is DA?
I find it a bit scary to share as I know I talk too much and can be too detailed and overthink things. Please don’t hold back on honesty and don’t be afraid to tell me if I’m in the wrong. Honest feedback is always a valuable gift ... especially as I’m still learning.
Bullet point summary of my relationship thus far (Gosh, just reread what I wrote below and it’s awfully long - I’m really sorry!! I have been too afraid to tell my friends the full story so I think I got carried away in the rush of getting it all out).
* I came out of a 15 year long relationship (married for 10 of those) 4 years ago.
* my marriage was ... difficult .... and eventually emotionally and verbally abusive. Not excessively bad though but still unpleasant
* I met Tom (my current partner) 3.5 years ago
* I am currently 41 and Tom is 50
* He’s never been married but, based on what he’s mentioned, has had quite a lot of relationships .... I think 3 or 4 serious ones lasting around the 3-4 year mark but quite a lot of others that lasted less than a year. Longest relationship being 6 years when he was in his late 20s. Tbh I don’t know exact history as I’ve never actively asked detailed questions, just info I’ve gleaned along the way.
* we clicked instantly and he told me loads of lovely things about how he knew I’d be the women’s who would never met him down, how he had always wanted someone like me, that he couldn’t wait for my divorce to come through so that we could move in together ( I had started my divorce before meeting him but it was loooooooong and drawn out process so took years to finally go through)
* I was very honest upfront about my personality type and my weaknesses and explained that, based on my history, i have self esteem and confidence issues and have a tendency to be quite emotional and need reassurance as I often assume everything is my fault and panic. I also told him I wanted to take it slow initially and only see him on weekends that I didn’t have my daughter (her dad has her every other weekend).
* he said he liked the fact that I was sensitive and caring and wore my heart on my sleeve etc etc He said he was patient and happy to take it slow. He told me he loved me within a month or 2 of dating and even said quite early on that he wanted to marry me as soon as I was officially divorced.
* things were great for the first 12 months - we got together every 2nd weekend (fri night to sun morning) and he would call me every night.
* after a year I said it would be good if we could start spending every weekend together but he then said we shouldn’t until the courts finally approved my divorce as it would potentially make my ex angry if he found out via my daughter that I had met someone.
* I was honest and said that while I understood his point, that it did worry me that maybe things were only working BECAUSE we spent so little time together and that I was concerned that when it all became “real” and the courts approved my divorce, that he would get cold feet and run away.
* he reassured me saying I was just worried unnecessarily and that I should just relax.
* but it niggled in the back of my mind and every few months after that I would check in and say I was feeling anxious and was he really still sure he wanted this because if not he could be honest. I explained that it would be silly to continue if he already knew he didn’t want a serious commitment as I was a mother and therefore wasn’t looking for a part time thing.
* this really annoyed him & he started refusing to engage in a discussion - he was never nasty but would just say “stop worrying” ... literally that was the only 2 words he’d say ... never more than that.
* this is when things started going wrong (around the 18 month mark)
* 1st incident was that I found out via a joke a friend of his made that a women he had started working with was calling and texting him almost daily and had been for a few months.
* this upset me as he had never mentioned her to me even in passing. He had mentioned plenty of his other female friends and I had never ever reacted in a jealous way or been weird about him seeing them. I explained that it wasnt the fact she was calling and texting daily but rather that he hadn’t mentioned it and that it made me feel like he was hiding something
* he apologised and said he completely understood that he handled it badly and would dial it down and not communicate with her outside of work.
* that was that and I didn’t mention it again
* 6 months later we were spending New Year’s Eve together at home and I suddenly was in intense pain ( later found out my appendix burst). I was scared as I didn’t know what was wrong and said I really needed to go into the emergency room straight away.
* he tried to talk me out of it saying how crazy busy the emergency room would be at 10pm on New Year’s Eve and that we would have to wait hours. He said I should instead stay at home and wait for an ambulance to come (we had called earlier but been told it would only arrive in 2 hours).
* I eventually said the pain was too bad and that I was going to drive myself to the hospital as it was just 10mins away (he doesn’t drive)
* he came with but sat in silence next to me and only held my hand briefly if I specifically asked. He wasn’t nasty or unkind just totally cold and seemingly very irritated
* I was extremely upset by this and after 2 days confronted him and told him how alone and sad it made me feel
* he apologised (not in a big way though) and spent most of the time explaining how it’s just because he hates hospitals due to bad experiences in the past
* I didn’t really feel comfortable with his explanation but knew that if I remained upset & brought it up again he would be frustrated. I worried that he was right and that I was creating a mountain out of a molehill. I ended up apologising for overreacting and never mentioned it again.
* My divorce came through in May last year and Tom started coming round every weekend. He would come after work on fri and then set his alarm to wake up at 8am on Sunday so he could be out the door approx 9.30 am. He has never even to this day stayed 1 full sunday with me - he always leaves no later than 10am. Ever.
* Mid last year for my 40th birthday we were heading off for a romantic weekend away. I had noticed that for a few days he had been acting weird and secretive with his phone. I ended up snooping (very bad I know!) and found a message from a woman that was very flirty with lots of hearts and kiss emojis. He had clearly deleted all preceding messages - I could tell the message I saw from her was clearly mid conversation but I couldn’t see any other previous messages in his Whatsapp. To be fair his response was friendly but not flirty. What upset me was that he said “sorry, I can’t text you much this weekend as I’m away with some friends”. He was in fact away with me for my 40th!
* I confronted him and his response was basically to say that it was nothing, just a friend who he met with travelling abroad the month before and that she just wanted to learn about london and that he didn’t think he needed to tell me.
* he refused to answer any questions about who she was and what kind of conversations they had had.
* I told him that I thought his answer was BS as her messsge was flirty ... I said that of course I understood that sometimes it’s nice to be flirted with and that I would understand if he just got a bit carried away because he is human after all, but that I just needed the truth. He said I was imagining things and that it was 100% platonic and that I was ridiculous for being upset and that he had done nothing wrong.
* He promised to block her number but I found out when I checked his phone 2 weeks later that they were still messaging (and he was still deleting the message history)
* The reason he gave for staying in contact was that he doesnt like being told what to do and that he wasnt doing anything wrong anyway.
* I tried to explain that the issue wasn’t the texting per se but rather the fact that he knowingly continued to do something I very clearly told him hurt and upset me.
* He refused to discuss it saying he had already told me nothing happened.
* I was not able to let it go and it massively effected me and made me paranoid and very mistrustful. I did the wrong thing of every few months getting upset and wanting to talk which I know in retrospect was not helpful
* About 6 months later I came home one Friday earlier than expected and he was already at my house. I overheard a conversation he was having with what sounded like a work colleague... he had said he was feeling stressed at work and she had responded with something like “oh what can I do to help/cheer you up” (I assume as I couldn’t hear her). His response was “well a bit of pussy would be nice”.
* I totally freaked out and got super angry. I won’t pretend I was calm and reasonable and kind. I was not. I shouted and called him an asshole and cried and shouted some more for at least 45mins before pulling myself together and calming down.
* He said I was totally overreacting and it was just a joke.
* He point blank refuses to tell me who she was or whether she was a friend or work colleague. He wouldn’t tell me anything and said it wouldn’t achieve anything and that i was just wanting details to punish him and make him feel embarrassed and like a naughty school boy
* It came out during this argument that despite denying it at the time, he had in fact kissed the girl I had found the text messaged from a few months earlier.
* This made things even worse and it made me extra needy for reassurance and I became clingy and kept trying to re-establish intimacy.
* I absolutely know I made many classic AP mistakes and used protest behaviour (such as being quiet and aloof for a bit hoping to make him feel guilty and then being very emotional and loving)
* I also tried to discuss the situation every 3 weeks. I would try to pretend everything was okay but after 3 weekends I would cave in and usually break down in tears and say how anxious and worried I was and that please please could he explain what had happened and give me some sort of reassurance that he realised it was wrong and that he had hurt me. I explained that the act itself wasn’t the thing that really upset me, but rather the fact that he appeared to believe he had done nothing wrong and therefore never apologised. I said this worried me because if he didn’t believe that what he had done was wrong, that I didn’t have any trust/faith that he would do it again.
* Each conversation went worse and worse and we just said the same things over and over. Me emotionally explaining how I was feeling hurt and needed reassurance and an apology and him saying I was creating a problem out of nothing. He would say that he could see the real me now and that I pretended to be a nice person but that in fact I was very very nasty. That I only wanted to talk purely to punish him because i knew he hated talking. He said I got joy out of psychologically torturing him and just wanted to embarrass and punish him for my own sick pleasure. Usually after about an hour of this he would storm out and refuse to talk or text for a day or 2.
* I then found out that on Sunday’s he was visiting 2 different women in their apartments or sometimes going out to a pub or bar. Every time we spoke on Sunday night and discussed what we had each been up to during the day he always said he had spent the day alone wandering g around the city or just gone home. He said both women were just friends and that he had done nothing wrong.
* I tried to explain that it was the lying that was the issue not the fact that he was seeing friends .... I also said that it seemed weird to me that he would lie about something that was innocent.
* He said it was because of my bad reactions in the past and that he didn’t tell me to avoid drama.
* Eventually by about Oct this year he just refused to see or speak to me for days on end
* I left him alone for 2 weeks but then got panicky and again made all the classic AP mistakes - 4 or 5 call attempts in a row and maybe 5-10 long text messages.
* We have seen each other twice since beginning Oct and both times I’ve tried my best to explain how I’m feeling to him and what I need. I try very hard to make all my statements about me & how I’m feeling rather than focused on the specific things that happened although it’s hard not to reference the situations. I explain how the lies and secrets make me anxious and mistrustful. That the kiss or the flirty call are not in themselves such big issues but rather the fact that he would not talk it through and explain it to me. I also say that while I know he finds talking difficult, that I need some reassurance that he understands how upset I am and that I need to feel like he realised that what he did is hurtful and to help me in rebuilding trust. I explain that I know I too have many faults and that I am trying to learn how to deal with things in a healthier and less emotionally chaotic way but that I need him to open up and help explain to me what he needs too so that I can try to meet these needs
* His response both times has been as before ..... he says he loves me and misses me but that due to my “talking nonsense” he doesn’t know if he can still be “in love” with me.
* That he is convinced that the only reason I want to talk is to punish him like a schoolboy and make him feel bad. He says that the real problem is that I insist on talking and that if I had just stopped doing that everything would have been fine with us but that my obsession with wanting to talk things through has created the problem
* He says he can no longer trust me and that he fears I will always want to handle future problems by talking and that it never works to talk
* He says I, like all women, just enjoy creating drama and conflict
* that the real issue is that I am too needy and that actually my real problem with him is the fact that I want to trap him into spending Sunday’s together and that he needs space and time alone (this is confusing as he spends all week alone and I keep saying I would only like to spend occasional Sunday’s together or at least just have him come back in the evening and stay the night)
So I guess I’m just looking for any nuggets of feedback about any part of my situation.
How can I get better at dealing with things in a more secure way but at the same time not just pushing all my needs aside and pretending everything is fine (which I know he would prefer).
What am I doing wrong? Is it wrong to want to talk/discuss these issues.... I am trying so hard to put myself in his shoes but in my heart I don’t feel it’s fair to expect me to just not discuss the lies/secrets. I also in my heart don’t believe it’s unreasonable for me to be very deeply hurt and want some explanation and acceptance of responsibility from him.
Am I just delusional and unable to see that it’s all just my fault?