|
|
Post by lovebunny on Dec 28, 2019 15:14:01 GMT
I've gone out a few times with this woman. Similar life goals, we have fun together, she seems empathetic and self-aware. She's always been the more aggressive one, touching me more, kissing me first. After our last date, during a long, hot make out session, she whispered in my ear all the wonderful things she wanted to do to me. We'd been drinking (a lot) though, so when she invited me to her place, I said I didn't want our first time to be sloppy drunk and put her in a cab.
Last night, she came over for dinner. I felt excited to move things forward. I got all pretty, cleaned my house, cleared my schedule. Yes, I had expectations, despite warning myself not to.
After dinner and a game, we started making out. When things started to heat up, she climbs off me to tell me she's nervous because she's still feeling damaged from her last girlfriend, they were together 8 years ended 6 months ago. She says she can do casual sex, but feels that with me, this wouldn't be casual. She says I'm all these wonderful things and is very attracted to me, but just doesn't feel ready to take it to the next level. It's not me, it's her (how many times in my life must I hear this goddamned phrase??) She said she's "scared" of me. So now, I'm thinking I have been attracted yet again to an FA, who will make sure things never move forward. Yet again, I scare someone because I'm so loveable, yet they can never possibly love me.
My body's response was to completely shut down, the emotional equivalent of going fetal. This started happening to me a couple of years ago while in a toxic relationship. When I'm overwhelmed by feelings of rejection or abandonment, I freeze. Externally, my eyes go glassy, I put my head down, I have trouble speaking. My whole body feels heavy and numb. Inside, I am using all my resources to not break down in tears, not beg for love, not to fall apart in front of my rejector, like I would've when I was a younger woman. I skimmed the thread on here about avoidants doing something similar, though they seem to actually numb their emotions, while I only manage to mute my response to my emotions.
I explained I needed a moment to move out of my heart and into my head. Once I could gather my thoughts, I acknowledged she had every right to say no to sex, and/or no to a relationship with me. So what, then, does she want. Just friends? Casual sex? Nothing?
She said she didn't think of me casually, and "doesn't want to be friend-zoned just yet," couldn't we just get to know each other more? I said sure, but also was honest that sex was typically how I explored my romances. I also said I really am not sure about dating someone who is hesitant to be with me. I don't want to chase anyone, or feel like I'm in a push-pull. I want someone for whom I am a "hell yes" and they're a "hell yes" for me.
We tried to lighten the mood, put in a movie. But I couldn't seem to get my soul back into my body, and she said "You're pouting." I admitted yes, though not on purpose. Finally, after the fourth time she asked me if I wanted her to leave, I said yes, mostly because I could see she was uncomfortable and I felt exhausted. But first I gave her a long, heartfelt, non-sexual embrace, though it was like moving my limbs through molasses to accomplish it. I truly do not want her to feel bad or guilty for expressing her needs. She texted me when she got home "thank you for dinner," I texted "thank you for coming over," she texted "You're a wonderful human."
Then I curled up in bed and tried to let the tears come, but the truth is, I'm still frozen.
I don't know what to do, or if I should do anything. Apologize for getting upset, though it wasn't intentional? Try to be patient and keep getting to know her without expectations (am I capable?) Cut her loose and hope some middle-aged, queer, relationship-ready woman shows up in my life? Is the proverbial ball in her court, or mine? So confused, and I hate feeling confused. I want reciprocity and clarity. But it's only been a few dates, maybe I am being unfair and of course anxiously attached. The whole thing feels fragile right now, if indeed there even is a "thing" anymore.
|
|
|
|
Post by anne12 on Dec 28, 2019 17:31:48 GMT
Sounds like you collapsed ?
Do you think that it could be a
good idea to wait with sex until you are getting further into a relationship ?
And maybe hold back with drinking ?
Can you regulate ?
When you are more regulated, what do you think would be the most loving thing to do for you ?
Yes this woman says a lot of nice things, that you like, but what do YOU want ?
Why are you interested in a woman who is not over her ex yet ?
Could it be a good idea to set a boundarie and tell her that she maybe can come back when she has got over her ex and then you cold see if you are still available ? Or that you are not interested in dating someone who hasn't moved on from their last relationship.
Maybe you felt your boundaries overstepped ? Or you were overstepping your own boundaries ?
Take care
|
|
|
|
Post by anne12 on Dec 28, 2019 18:44:54 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Dec 28, 2019 19:53:04 GMT
lovebunny, she's saying she's emotionally unavailable still from her breakup but doesn't want to screw things up with you. She knows you're not looking for casual (not wanting your first time to be sloppy drunk indicates that), she doesn't want to hurt you or lead you on if she's not ready to give you that. But she's not saying she can never give you that, she's saying she's not ready yet due to other factors unrelated to you and doesn't want you to just be a rebound. This doesn't mean she's FA, as it is common for people to be emotionally unavailable after breakups. I commend her for being upfront with you, in fact. That's a really good sign. The perceived rejection and fear of abandonment triggered you AP. That stinks, but it's showing you that you still have personal healing you need to do too. Why not take some time to get to know each other and move slow while independently working out your personal issues (you healing your attachment injuries, her healing from her breakup)?
|
|
|
|
Post by serenity on Dec 28, 2019 20:13:52 GMT
Hugs lovebunny,
I guess the way I'd look at it, is you were both very badly triggered because of previous bad relationships. Having your connection needs thwarted would understandably remind you of your FA ex, the way you felt chronically starved and robbed of the connection you needed. Part of you may still feel that desperation for connection, and its a normal consequence of a trauma bond being suddenly severed. It'll take some time to heal, hon. That doesn't mean you can't court this new woman, but try to separate your desperate feelings from what is really happening in this new relationship. You are just getting to know one another. She likes you a lot and sees you as relationship material. But she wants to know you first so she doesn't get hurt.
Something that might help to restabilise your emotions is to just take space for a few weeks. You might find yourself crying and feeling withdrawral. But that will pass. You've been really badly hurt, hon. Its not a terrible idea to go slow with this new woman. For now, try to restabilise?
|
|
|
|
Post by lovebunny on Dec 29, 2019 1:31:11 GMT
Do you think that it could be a good idea to wait with sex until you are getting further into a relationship ? And maybe hold back with drinking ? Can you regulate ? Thank you Anne12, and for the article. I'm starting to regulate, finally. It's also been a super-busy, stressful week work-wise on top of this. I'm a drinker--but I think she's even worse. I always get sexual quickly. I love sex, plus good sex is important to me, I don't want to get involved in a relationship with a person only to find I'm not a match in that way. You know how they say women look for love and find sex, men look for sex and find love? I'm like a man. I tend to explore my feeling for a person through sex. She said last night, when I brought up this concern, something along the lines of "I can tell by how we kiss and touch each other that we will be sexual compatible. It's part of what scares me." |
|
|
|
Post by lovebunny on Dec 29, 2019 1:36:54 GMT
lovebunny , she's saying she's emotionally unavailable still from her breakup but doesn't want to screw things up with you. She knows you're not looking for casual (not wanting your first time to be sloppy drunk indicates that), she doesn't want to hurt you or lead you on if she's not ready to give you that. But she's not saying she can never give you that, she's saying she's not ready yet due to other factors unrelated to you and doesn't want you to just be a rebound. This doesn't mean she's FA, as it is common for people to be emotionally unavailable after breakups. I commend her for being upfront with you, in fact. That's a really good sign. Thank you Alexandra, I think you're right, she's not FA, except situationally. She's way too in touch with her feelings. But see, if I tell someone I want to "take it slow" and "be friends first," it's because I'm not that into them, but maybe I see good things about them, and I'm hoping I'll catch feelings for them later. So I have a hard time seeing what she said as a good sign. |
|
|
|
Post by lovebunny on Dec 29, 2019 1:41:05 GMT
try to separate your desperate feelings from what is really happening in this new relationship. Its not a terrible idea to go slow with this new woman. For now, try to restabilise? Thank you, Serenity. Yes, that is exactly where I struggle. My perception may not be the reality. At one point, she said to me "I'm kind of surprised you're taking this as a rejection." I didn't remember that until today, after I calmed down. I still don't know if I should say anything to her or just let it be. Leaning towards saying I'm sorry I shut down on her and didn't mean to put pressure. |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Dec 29, 2019 3:33:16 GMT
lovebunny , she's saying she's emotionally unavailable still from her breakup but doesn't want to screw things up with you. She knows you're not looking for casual (not wanting your first time to be sloppy drunk indicates that), she doesn't want to hurt you or lead you on if she's not ready to give you that. But she's not saying she can never give you that, she's saying she's not ready yet due to other factors unrelated to you and doesn't want you to just be a rebound. This doesn't mean she's FA, as it is common for people to be emotionally unavailable after breakups. I commend her for being upfront with you, in fact. That's a really good sign. Thank you Alexandra, I think you're right, she's not FA, except situationally. She's way too in touch with her feelings. But see, if I tell someone I want to "take it slow" and "be friends first," it's because I'm not that into them, but maybe I see good things about them, and I'm hoping I'll catch feelings for them later. So I have a hard time seeing what she said as a good sign.
First, before I launch into this, I want to say I do think you've been doing the right thing, pausing and asking yourself questions and assessing what the situation actually is and connecting back to your feelings about it. I hope you'll uncover your answers in regards to what you want as the anxious trigger calms down.
In response to the above, lovebunny , you're AP. Not everyone is the same, especially if they have a different attachment style. When I was AP, saying I wanted to move slow either meant I wasn't into someone so didn't want to sleep with them or I was REALLY into someone and scared to screw it up. And if I really meant I wasn't that into them, I'd stop seeing them after just a few dates anyway. But now when I say it and I'm not AP, it doesn't mean anything except I want to get to know someone before jumping into bed because I'm looking for something that will lead to marriage and I want to make sure we're compatible before I get extremely invested. I can also basically tell sexual compatibility from kissing, and I see no reason to rush into more as there will be plenty of time for that. I actually want to move slowly with everyone at this point in my life, and it bugs me that some people take that as rejection (yet it also tells me something about their level of insecurity and our compatibility in that way). That also doesn't mean being prudish or lacking in affection, it just means I want the other person's expectations managed if I don't want to all out sleep with them immediately, and for them to know it has nothing to do with them and isn't a reflection on how I feel about them. If they choose not to believe me at this point, when I'm being honest, that's their problem. It's also too bad for them because my being slow at first doesn't at all reflect how our sex life would be if we got together!
The guys looking for sex and finding love thing I think is more tied to it's tough for (let's just generalize by saying secure) guys to think as objectively when they're clouded by lust, so it's easier for them to tell how they feel about a woman after the fantasy has passed. Sex is used for different things by different people, but AP are more likely to use it for validation, anxiety relief (seems to reinforce that a partner is still interested / not in a state of getting abandoned), and because they feel like longing (which can also be lusting) = love. Again, that's a generalization, and I'm not assuming I know how you feel in terms of your sexuality and how you use it to connect with people, but I am trying to give some other perspectives to consider.
It's possible this woman is FA, but I see no evidence of it yet. I don't think being unavailable after a breakup is even "situational" FA, it's just temporary lack of emotional availability. Do you know why her last relationship ended? How do you think you might feel 6 months after a breakup of 8 years? If it was a decent relationship, I imagine I'd still feel somewhat closed off and unavailable and upset. That's a heck of a lot of life transition, too, having someone leave a big hole after all that time. So I see it as a good thing she said this because I'm not looking for any hidden meaning and am taking her words at face value. From that perspective, I think she's being fair and honest with you, and a good communicator. However, when I was AP, I would also look for hidden meaning based on how I felt about myself, and try to fill in any perceived blanks with the most negative narrative about myself as possible, expecting the potential partner was of course not that into me.
A huge turning point for me in my understanding of attachment style, and that other people of other styles don't all experience their emotions the same way I do, actually was when my FA ex triggered me (we were trying to work things out between us but hadn't actually talked about what was going on at all, and I thought he wasn't dating anyone and I found out he'd attempted to go on a date, though the woman actually stood him up and it never happened). I immediately confronted him about it, and he said, "I'm not rejecting you." This stuck in my mind for two weeks, before we really sat down and started talking things through, because I couldn't figure out what he meant? It sounded like he was completely rejecting me! And then I realized he was defining rejection differently, and that there was a different point of view where it made sense he'd think that. And that our situation was very murky (because we were both insecurely attached and had years of push pull already), but because of our poor communication up to that point, I was filling in the communication gaps with my own negativity anticipating what would happen. I didn't want to repeat that pattern of ours since it tanked our first relationship go around, and that was also the turning point for me to force myself to be more vulnerable and communicate more honestly with him, and to really listen to him objectively and not project out of my own insecurity.
In regards to what to do next, I don't think you need to apologize at all. Just show up. Figure out what you want, and tell her. Something like, "I'm glad you shared where you are at with me, and thanks for giving me some time to process it. I'm looking for x, y, z right now, so based on where you are too, I think we should move forward with trying a, b, c. How would you feel about that?"
a, b, c could be, we should take a break to work on our own issues independently but I'd love it if you reached out once you felt like you were ready and over your breakup. It could be, I would love to keep getting to know you too so let's take it slow and be friends first. It could be, I'm not comfortable starting a potential relationship without sex because it's really important for how I express myself so maybe we should call it quits and chalk it up to incompatibility. It could be anything -- as long as you're being true to your own needs and boundaries and honestly communicating it once you figured it out. If she's emotionally in tune and mature, she'll appreciate and respect whatever it is you say.
I also think it's worth considering Anne's question about what sparked your interest in yet another unavailable person? And is this part of old patterns? Does that mean you'll be turned off if she becomes fully available?
|
|
|
|
Post by lovebunny on Dec 29, 2019 12:53:29 GMT
alexandra,
Thank you so much for that excellent reply. It honestly did not occur to me while in my emotional shutdown that she might not be rejecting me, that's why I had to come on here and ask. My whole being FELT rejected, and that became my reality. Only when I calmed down and replayed things she said did I start to think maybe I wasn't quite hearing what she was saying.
I didn't ask her why her last relationship ended, figured she'd reveal that to me in her own time. She did at one point assure me she doesn't still "have feelings" for her ex, but she is still "healing" from whatever happened between them. I get that, totally.
I don't think I intentionally seek out emotionally unavailability, of course. I kind of think that's a lot of what's left in the dating pool at my age (late 40's.) I was married for 16 years and out of the dating scene up until 5 years ago.
But one thing I do know about myself, I run emotionally hot, and I am very attracted to people who run emotionally cool. They calm me--until they drive me crazy. I definitely was drawn to her mellow, easygoing vibe. She's friendly, outgoing, and has the most sensitive touch. She has the ability to soothe me when I get over-stimulated.
Thank you for giving me so much to think about. I definitely need to decide if I can handle a slow pace without losing my s**t. I don't want to waste my time or feel tormented, but maybe doing things a little differently than I'm used to wouldn't be so bad.
|
|
|
|
Post by lovebunny on Dec 30, 2019 0:33:39 GMT
Well, I broke down and texted her tonight. I told her I understood her reasons for for pulling back. She replied with basically "I think you're great, and you deserve someone emotionally available."
So it was as I thought. She doesn't want to go slow. She just isn't available for a relationship--not with me, anyway. Story of my life.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Dec 30, 2019 1:09:59 GMT
I'm sorry to hear it lovebunny, but I don't think wanting to go slow and being unavailable are mutually exclusive. She tested out the let's go slow waters and saw you were clearly not happy or comfortable with it, so the kindest thing she can do in that case is back off. Because she knows she's not available and you DO deserve someone who is. Hugs, but you'll be okay. You said this was only a few dates, so mourn the potential but be grateful she was so in tune with her own emotions and communicated so directly. I don't think any of this reflects on you. You're just not both looking for the same thing right now. I think it's also good to keep exploring the stuff this situation brought up for you that we've already been discussing in this thread. The more you heal your AP, the easier these "almost" situations get to deal with because you'll be able to take them at face value without all the attachment issues layered on, telling you negative stories about yourself and how you'll end up alone. Without that extra layer, these things can still be painful and frustrating but FAR far less painful. |
|
|
|
Post by lovebunny on Dec 30, 2019 14:30:16 GMT
Thanks, Alexandra (and everyone else too.) It's just very hard to believe it's not a reflection on me. I feel like when the right person comes along, no matter if you're "not ready," you GET ready. It just seems I'm never the right person.
But I know she's doing me a favor, and my last words to her have all been kind ones. It's true I would not be able to tolerate a "situationship" long, and that seems to be all she has to offer me. It's just frustrating, she had so much of what I'm looking for in a partner and our connection felt strong.
I definitely need to figure out how to solve the emotional/physical shutdown that occurs when I feel rejected. It's totally debilitating. I want to feel warm and alive no matter what happens.
|
|
andy
Full Member
Posts: 131
|
Post by andy on Dec 30, 2019 15:25:51 GMT
Hugs. This is very rough. Still, I think there are aspects to be proud of: you know you can't tolerate a situationship and refuse to do it (lots of APs would put themselves through it regardless of the misery it might cause them), you had kind words for her, you can see she's doing you a favour, and you know that one of your long-term goals is to become less quick to interpret and feel things as personal rejection. It might not seem obvious how to achieve that, and it's certainly not easy, but tons of people who could benefit from that don't have self-awareness around it like you do.
Take excellent care of yourself.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Dec 30, 2019 19:21:55 GMT
Thanks, Alexandra (and everyone else too.) It's just very hard to believe it's not a reflection on me. I feel like when the right person comes along, no matter if you're "not ready," you GET ready. It just seems I'm never the right person. I also used to believe this, but honestly it's a very AP perspective that's fueled by pop culture constantly repeating this same message. Now, going through my own attachment healing process and having dated so many avoidants and seeing how they've turned out years later and reading story after story on this board, I think it's completely untrue. Yes, there are some people who are better matches and more compatible for each other than others, but no one actually gets ready for the RIGHT person. They get ready because they were ready to get ready (and probably already doing the work). It's really as simple as that. There's only one person I ever briefly dated that, knowing what I know now, I think he is actually secure and would have been a great partner for me and vice-versa. We were long distance though and I was in my 20s, and while I was fond of him, I was ambivalent and didn't know why (geographic logistics weren't working out at the time anyway). But now I know exactly why, which had to do with me and my attachment wounding not him, and it would have taken me another 10 years to be on the path of ready. He and I still loosely keep in touch as friends. I've met his wife, and he is a truly devoted husband and father. I'm happy for him because he's a great person, but I wasn't near ready and he wasn't going to be able to do a thing to change that. I have no regrets, it was bad timing and that's a real thing in life. Plus, he's not the only "right" match I'm ever going to meet in life. (The reason he's the only one I can pick out in retrospect among the men I've dated is not to idealize him, it's simply because just about everyone else I ever dated was avoidant.) I definitely need to figure out how to solve the emotional/physical shutdown that occurs when I feel rejected. It's totally debilitating. I want to feel warm and alive no matter what happens. This is directly related to your nervous system getting overwhelmed by the perceived survival threat and fear of abandonment. I've gotten triggered this way countless times as well. Continuing to work on earning secure will help you manage this. Part of earning secure is learning how to sit with the trigger as well, but both going through your process and at the same time really leaning into how you feel when you're triggered and what's under it and what calms you both feed into each other towards positive improvement, if that makes sense. You don't need to do all this now. Right now just take care of yourself after being disappointed by this situation. But keep your chin up, because I think you'll be okay and have some clear direction for what you can do next if you want to work on it  |
|
