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Post by dhali on Jan 22, 2020 23:16:24 GMT
I was getting along, and then did the inevitable emotional slip, and was thinking about what went all horribly wrong. I have come to the conclusion that the main culprit was conflict avoidance. Hard conflict avoidance. She swallowed her emotion when I did something bothersome, and I never had a chance to rectify the issue because I never knew about it. Meanwhile, she was still love bombing me.
She is, in general a people pleaser. Also, as a result, not very vulnerable. But she definitely has strong boundaries in the relationship (her using the bathroom, even just to get ready for bed was extremely private for her- don’t ever cross that boundary. Not even as a joke). Anyhow, what struck me as hurtful to me was how she’s so sweet to everyone else, and everyone loves her, because she’s fun and makes others feel special. And in the end for me, she had built up all this resentment towards me, and unleashed an ugliness I didn’t know existed.
Anyhow, I view the most breakup more from a conflict avoidance perspective where things had built, and she had enough internal conversations to basically start disliking me. Does this fit into being FA? As i find resentment, different than avoidant. Plus most avoidants aren’t so outgoing. This also follows a pattern of relationships, nearest I could figure. She doesn’t cycle as she hates all her ex’s. Resentment afterall.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 22, 2020 23:34:02 GMT
dhali, yes, this can fit FA. My people-pleasing FA exes were very resentful of me over the smallest and pettiest things when they each broke up with me, and it was completely due to their inability to communicate coupled with deactivation and nitpicking to push me away. Then when they had distance outside the relationship, they came back idealizing me and our friendship, resentment gone. Since she holds on to her resentment forever, it may be she's FA and has additional issues as well. Did she show any signs of borderline personality disorder? Once you're "split black" for good with them, they generally hold that grudge and hatred forever. Even if you didn't actually do anything to cause it, and they just got triggered by whatever.
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Post by serenity on Jan 23, 2020 0:42:59 GMT
I was getting along, and then did the inevitable emotional slip, and was thinking about what went all horribly wrong. I have come to the conclusion that the main culprit was conflict avoidance. Hard conflict avoidance. She swallowed her emotion when I did something bothersome, and I never had a chance to rectify the issue because I never knew about it. Meanwhile, she was still love bombing me. She is, in general a people pleaser. Also, as a result, not very vulnerable. But she definitely has strong boundaries in the relationship. Anyhow, what struck me as hurtful to me was how she’s so sweet to everyone else, and everyone loves her, because she’s fun and makes others feel special. And in the end for me, she had built up all this resentment towards me, and unleashed an ugliness I didn’t know existed. Anyhow, I view the most breakup more from a conflict avoidance perspective where things had built, and she had enough internal conversations to basically start disliking me. Does this fit into being FA? As i find resentment, different than avoidant. Plus most avoidants aren’t so outgoing. This also follows a pattern of relationships, nearest I could figure. She doesn’t cycle as she hates all her ex’s. Resentment afterall. Conflict avoidance was the nail in the coffin in my LTR with my ex. We are still in contact through work, still talking; I would say the detachment of friendship is a better match for our incompatible romantic needs. Over the past 4 or so months, we've gradually discussed some of his mindset during his last deactivation. It was way out there, his paranoia and negativity. He literally invented stuff in his head, stewed on it for months without saying a word. What I've come to realize about him is this is all part of his distance strategy. He doesn't want to resolve conflict or have his negativity challenged, as that would bring us close. And close = threat in an avoidants mind. We had resolved conflicts in the past, only for him to invent new ones (that he won't mention for months), and then newer ones. The goal posts endlessly shift. I call it a no win scenario, and also it just feels bad having a partner you know will always look for the worst in you, and invent negativity and conflict if need be. These people have very poor understanding of emotional triggers and the way they affect object constancy. I feel they would have to be fully aware and take charge of their negative thinking to get past inventing stuff to hate about their partners (and all the destructive behaviors that follow on from that). But that kind of growth would serve closeness and intimacy, rather than the distance they often prefer. I love my ex and care about him a great deal. I can't think of any way to interact with him other than as a detached friend now. |
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 2:09:39 GMT
dhali, yes, this can fit FA. My people-pleasing FA exes were very resentful of me over the smallest and pettiest things when they each broke up with me, and it was completely due to their inability to communicate coupled with deactivation and nitpicking to push me away. Then when they had distance outside the relationship, they came back idealizing me and our friendship, resentment gone. Since she holds on to her resentment forever, it may be she's FA and has additional issues as well. Did she show any signs of borderline personality disorder? Once you're "split black" for good with them, they generally hold that grudge and hatred forever. Even if you didn't actually do anything to cause it, and they just got triggered by whatever. Well, she doesn’t hold her ex’s in high regard. It was something I did take note of, even in the honeymoon period. Obviously, I thought I was different, and some of the complaints seemed reasonable. One ex is friends with her mom, so she basically knows everything about him and really doesn’t care about him. At all. I just though it was a pathetic orbit on his account. But basically it’s a string of her breaking things off and never looking back. Not everyone gets the dislike, but she defiantly doesn’t want anyone back. Once she asked me: do you think people need to be with someone else. I said yes, she challenged it because she said her mom was fulfilled single with her friends and doesn’t want anyone. She then asked if I had a woman who got away. I was a bit confused, and asked, you mean like pine for an ex? No, I don’t pine for any ex’s (I do now with her I suppose, But that’ll pass). She said she didn’t either. She mentioned her mother has a guy who is her one that got away (her mom seems to be a DA to me, and generally pretty emotionally ugly to my ex). But anyhow, I never heard her say a positive thing about an ex until the day before she broke it off with me (we was doing a reflection, I think comparing me, unbeknownst to me at the time). As for the friend thing... yeah, I’m pretty sure she’d be my friend. But then I’d have to see her with her new boyfriend, and that’s sorta inappropriate, to me. We do share a friend group, and I bumped into her at a party once, 2 months after the breakup. I was cordial, but cold. She approached me to say hi and ask how are things. I said good, thanks. This is the only exchange after the breakup, which ended with me hanging up the phone immediately after she did it. I interpreted her approaching me as if nothing was wrong and that we were cool, as her not giving a fuck about me anymore, and it was painful. The lead up to the breakup was very ugly on her side. I still can’t believe I kept my cool, but I was honestly confused. What is “split black”? |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2020 2:21:10 GMT
dhali, huge red flag to have nothing but bad things to say about every ex, regardless of attachment style. No one's ever the exception, it will eventually happen to you. It shows black and white thinking, lack of taking responsibility, lack of good judgement (if everyone is so bad, you choose terrible partners, you are a terrible partner, or most likely both!), distrust of others, and general inability to sustain relationships long term. I'd argue it can be a sign of a personality disorder... something's wrong with object constancy. Most people will look at most of their exes with some balance, not all good or bad... though having a couple bad news exes because you just didn't realize they were crappy at first may not mean anything.
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Post by kittygirl on Jan 23, 2020 3:33:25 GMT
ha...Not totally pertinent but I love this quote so much and what Alexandra said sort of reminded me of it:
“If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.”
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 3:58:35 GMT
I do understand that.. however there is always nuanced reasons why we ignore red flags.
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Post by Dualcitizen on Jan 23, 2020 4:07:34 GMT
I do understand that.. however there is always nuanced reasons why we ignore red flags. If she has an F-A tendency, "conflict avoidance" is just one issue of many. The "people pleasing" aspect is exactly the same as my story. Couldn't catch up too busy, BUT, was ensuring she went out of her way to help people that had no real direct tie to her in numerous ways. Those people idealise her for her generosity, in the meantime, as the lover, shafted for quality time spent. So fully get it. It's steeped in the enmeshment with the parents/caregiver and validation. Also can totally relate to the "critical inner voice". My girl, exactly the same, stories made up without expressing any of it to me, and then just making the mind up on those stories, and express after the fact. Try and talk about it, but mind made up without communication at all. There is simply nothing you can do. They must work on themselves and actualise self love and understand how they have been "programmed" in effect. I just cannot see a relationship happening otherwise. I wouldn't beat yourself up for one second. You literally cannot effectively communicate. And if there is another guy in the picture, the same will happen to him, guaranteed! |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2020 4:32:08 GMT
Splitting black is responding to a trigger, due to something real or perceived, by suddenly seeing a person as all bad, because they hurt you and the person who splits can't hold the idea that a good person can make mistakes or cause pain, and a bad person can sometimes do good. So they project all good on someone if that person makes them happy in the moment or all bad if they feel hurt. Because people who split generally can't emotionally regulate, they'll eventually just label someone split black as evil, stay away, protect yourself, so even if that person treats them well they'll still have devalued them forever in self-defense. Which again, may be about something totally made up in the first place. "People with BPD have trouble regulating their emotions effectively. They may experience splitting, which is a term that refers to seeing things as all good or all bad. Splitting means having difficulty holding opposing thoughts. A person who experiences splitting is unable to weigh positive and negative attributes of a person or event or recognize that good and bad attributes can be true at the same time. A person with BPD frequently sees things in black and white terms, which means things and people are seen as either all good or all bad. They may even perceive themselves in these rigid, all or nothing terms. They don’t believe good people can be bad sometimes or can make mistakes, which can lead to becoming consumed with anger toward people who fall short of idealistic thinking. Splitting is considered a coping mechanism that helps a person with BPD avoid getting hurt. It allows them to discard things and people they have decided are all bad. In spite of the fact that it is meant to be a coping mechanism, splitting can cause a person with BPD to experience intense episodes of rage or depression that may last for days." www.clearviewwomenscenter.com/blog/splitting-in-bpd |
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Post by mrob on Jan 23, 2020 4:36:34 GMT
I’m sorry, dhali. The nitpicking, then resentment is the FA’s subconscious way of creating distance and avoiding intimacy. It’s all linked. My ex wife was genuinely confused because we seldom argued. I knew my stuff wasn’t rational, and tried to do the opposite. Neither of us were good at confrontation, and consequently never really solved anything. If something came up, we’d have spirited conversation, then she’d get what she wanted because I’d feel like capitulation was the only way to stop the confrontation. Instead, I’d end up hauling myself off to therapy. In the end, I had two hard things I wouldn’t budge on. I felt like I’d compromised everything, because I had, but couldn’t argue properly. |
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 5:40:07 GMT
Got it. There was no splitting black. That’s extreme. I don’t know about all bad, just being critical, and not seeing a holistic person. Basically being done with the relationship. Like I’ve been before. If I breakup, there are times I just want nothing to do with the ex. That’s just her all the time, romantically. I do believe she seeks friendships with people she’s dated and ex’s except for one who was, according to her, a narcissist. But I haven’t really seen or heard her care about those ex’s. It’s not what I would call a friendship.
Oh, and me. Given her conflict avoidance, I doubt she’ll ever reach out, and I have disappeared except for that one run in.
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Post by serenity on Jan 23, 2020 6:51:08 GMT
Got it. There was no splitting black. That’s extreme. I don’t know about all bad, just being critical, and not seeing a holistic person. Basically being done with the relationship. Like I’ve been before. If I breakup, there are times I just want nothing to do with the ex. That’s just her all the time, romantically. I do believe she seeks friendships with people she’s dated and ex’s except for one who was, according to her, a narcissist. But I haven’t really seen or heard her care about those ex’s. It’s not what I would call a friendship. Oh, and me. Given her conflict avoidance, I doubt she’ll ever reach out, and I have disappeared except for that one run in. Splitting is a PTSD symptom too; I have C-PTSD and it was a huge eye opener to realize that I was being excessively negative and even paranoid when I was triggered. Once I realized what i was doing, I became better at self soothing through my distress, then taking time to reflect on the positives of the person who triggered me. I can balance my mind in a few hours now . My ex would split when triggered by too much intimacy, but he took longer to come back than I do. And he'd hold onto some of the negativity, even if it wasn't real. I think Alexandra is right, that if the splitting is permanent, its probably a sign of a personality disorder or just not really understanding their mindset very well. |
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 6:58:04 GMT
I guess what I’m saying is, I don’t think for a second she gives a crap about me anymore. Mainly because she doesn’t about any of her ex’s. I’m not saying she thinks they are all bad, but she justified the breakups by saying negative things about them and absolutely did not want to get back with any of them. Any, ever. Though oddly she is “friends” with a bunch. I just saw them as hangers on. I once stated that I don’t stay friends with too many ex’s as that’s not why I’m dating. She thought that was strange. Anyhow, I don’t think that makes a personality disorder. I just noted it as strange and incongruent with a fearful avoidant.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2020 7:43:05 GMT
dhali, I wasn't saying she necessarily had one either. Was just asking for more information about how extreme it was and explaining why.
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 8:42:49 GMT
I also didn't indicate that it was a small and petty thing that blew up. Just something that if discussed early on would have been dealt with in a normal relationship. Value shaping/agreeing sort of stuff in a relationship. We weren't that far off, but she got triggered by some cavalier comments I made, she swallowed the emotion. Never discussed it, and then the antenna was up for anything remotely close that I would say... anyhow a conversation at the first "offense" would have settled things. I just don't want to portray it as petty. I do think value disagreements are troublesome. It's just I wasn't part of that conversation. But once that ball got rolling, I got gunnysacked. I kept thinking after the end (sort of in shock still) - does this woman expect the perfect mate to just shoot right into her lap? Sometimes I'm careless with my words. Sheesh. She had me thinking that was abnormal. I know it's not.
If I were to guess, she just sees us as incompatible. But it's not like I knew that was brewing. And, in reality, we are, but not for the reasons she thinks.
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