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Post by amber on Jan 23, 2020 10:12:45 GMT
I also didn't indicate that it was a small and petty thing that blew up. Just something that if discussed early on would have been dealt with in a normal relationship. Value shaping/agreeing sort of stuff in a relationship. We weren't that far off, but she got triggered by some cavalier comments I made, she swallowed the emotion. Never discussed it, and then the antenna was up for anything remotely close that I would say... anyhow a conversation at the first "offense" would have settled things. I just don't want to portray it as petty. I do think value disagreements are troublesome. It's just I wasn't part of that conversation. But once that ball got rolling, I got gunnysacked. I kept thinking after the end (sort of in shock still) - does this woman expect the perfect mate to just shoot right into her lap? Sometimes I'm careless with my words. Sheesh. She had me thinking that was abnormal. I know it's not. If I were to guess, she just sees us as incompatible. But it's not like I knew that was brewing. And, in reality, we are, but not for the reasons she thinks. This happened to me too. My ex FA disconnected after a falling out we had, in which I got upset and over emotional (I apologised the next day profusely and fully owned it, we made up and things seemingly were back on track), then a month later he ended it stating I undermined his trust from that conflict and he didn’t feel strongly enough for me after that. So my take on this is some people, and maybe more FA but maybe all insecurely attaches people, are looking for the near perfect partner, and when u show up with your flaws they can’t handle it. My therapist reckons that my ex was expecting me to be the perfect mama he never had, and to take full responsibility for his feelings, to not have needs. Basically he’s projecting his parent shit on me. So maybe your ex has unresolved parent issues that get massively triggered when someone says things that trigger he and she can’t handle it in Adult way |
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Post by anne12 on Jan 23, 2020 11:35:13 GMT
amber ...near perfect partner... According to an attatchment/SE teacher - The difference between ambivalent and desorganised and what they unconsciously want: For the desorganized, what was missing was the perfect unconditional love. Unlike the scary, unpredictable, chaotic, and cross-border from childhood. Just as your therapist have told you. For the disorganized, it has to be the perfect partner - it's about life and death.They look for the ideal partner. The desorganised sometimes does on the conscious level want a calm and predictable relationship. But they can have a tendency to want intencity and drama in their relationship. (Unconsciously) Wants their partner to be "the perfect partner". They have a tendency to put their partner on a piedestal. And their partner can easily fall of the piedistal. Ambivalent - Purpose: Wants to get the love and attention they once experienced with their parents, but which disappeared. The ambivalent need not to put the other on a pedestal the same way as the desorganised. They identify love with yearning and Longing. They can begin unconsciously to find faults in their partner, but not to get the other down from the pedestal, but to protect themselves from giving themselves to their partner and experience real love ( love it is not going to last. - (yes, yes you love me right now, but what about tomorrow ?)
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Post by mrob on Jan 23, 2020 11:38:39 GMT
Everyone here knows that I don’t want to cohabitate. I Make it clear early on. If somebody gasps, or doesn’t accept that’s reasonable immediately, I move on now. I didn’t always, and what would happen was the movement would get closer and closer with the intention firmly set upon white picket fences, sooner or later. I would feel engulfed, my senses would be prickling and deactivation followed. Then I’d think, what am I on about? Then it’d start all over again....
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 15:34:08 GMT
dhali , huge red flag to have nothing but bad things to say about every ex, regardless of attachment style. No one's ever the exception, it will eventually happen to you. It shows black and white thinking, lack of taking responsibility, lack of good judgement (if everyone is so bad, you choose terrible partners, you are a terrible partner, or most likely both!), distrust of others, and general inability to sustain relationships long term. I'd argue it can be a sign of a personality disorder... something's wrong with object constancy. Most people will look at most of their exes with some balance, not all good or bad... though having a couple bad news exes because you just didn't realize they were crappy at first may not mean anything. I do think the object constancy thing is at play in the situation described. It was combined with, you can't even engage because it's so out of left field, gunnysacking. |
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Post by annieb on Jan 23, 2020 16:26:12 GMT
Probably off topic, but as an FA, who is reformed (I no longer test FA), I have to say that the way I have changed, there is no way my former exs would even be attracted to me anyway. I am outspoken now and they would simply get defensive. As an FA I held a lot of that in. Not to beat the OP down, but it's good to always see your part in things. Would you have been attracted to someone, who would immediately let you know if something is amiss?
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 17:34:08 GMT
I don't think you have to worry about me analyzing my part. I get that this thread looks like me playing the victim. I am not doing that. I'm really trying to understand if my ex was FA. The not caring about her ex's suggests no. And the people pleasing aspect always bothered me - as why the hell then is everyone else good enough, but not me? It's a somatic thing for me, and not rational.
I'm not trying to get back. I don't want to get back. I'm just trying to make sense of the emotionally draining experience that makes/made no sense to me. Am I the right person for her? No. Do I work on myself daily? yes. Am I the perfect human? no. Do I tend to get anxious when I feel someone pulling away that I am into? Yes. And pulling away isn't defined by me as taking too long to answer a text message.
Am I blaming her? No. Well, sort of. But for sure, my careless comments came from a place of insecurity and without that, things wouldn't have gone down the way they did. And I did it more than once. False bravado that certainly backfired. I have to live with that. I have worked on being more present, focusing on my self-esteem, further developed my spiritual practice, taken social skills classes (to great effect), and I've been in therapy. Quite frankly, it would be difficult to find someone else who does as much personal development as me. So much so, that I think I've past the point where it would be intimidating to any future dates. I don't think you have to worry about me owning my stuff. Either way, it wouldn't have ever worked. And yes, because of her, ultimately - not that I wouldn't have been playijg my part, but because I don't think she could be with someone long term due to her conflict avoidance. And if she fixed this? Well, I don't think she ever will, but if she did? I agree, we wouldn't be compatible. And btw, she isn't my first girlfriend. I've dated women who have strong backbones - this isn't about a proclivity for women who bury their feelings. I know my part in this. I know I was attracted to someone who showered me with praise.
And as is typical on this board, I really only addressed the FA/people pleasing/conflict avoidant/not caring about ex's aspect. It then blew up into (not my doing BTW) a discussion about serious consideration for personality disorders, and blowing trivial things up. None of which I have attributed to her, and don't think is a relevant branch to go down. At least in this specific case. I'd agree if I started attributing these things to her even though it's dubious, then yes, I'm seeking out reasons it's not my fault. I see that a lot on here.
Now, does it matter what my ex is or isn't? No, I suppose it doesn't. But this whole board is filled with people trying to gain insight into their ex's. Is that healthy? I don't know. Hopefully it helps me in the future. I get that the focus is external when doing this. I'm also trying to make sense of a senseless situation.
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Post by annieb on Jan 23, 2020 19:12:53 GMT
dhali - My question was more of would you have been attracted to her if she was outspoken and would have spoken up immediately at the first sign of conflict? Would you have considered continuing dating her at that moment?
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 19:38:28 GMT
The answer is yes, and I think it would have been a minor misunderstanding and brought us closer. It never happened. Now if she rammed it down my throat, then it probably would have put me on the defensive, but if it was brought up as a concern to be discussed. Absolutely.
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Post by annieb on Jan 23, 2020 19:44:00 GMT
The answer is yes, and I think it would have been a minor misunderstanding and brought us closer. It never happened. Now if she rammed it down my throat, then it probably would have put me on the defensive, but if it was brought up as a concern to be discussed. Absolutely. What if you didn't have choice in how it was presented? |
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 20:00:18 GMT
Then maybe, maybe not. If someone screams at me, my aperture isn't going to be particularly wide. If it's done respectfully, because I deserve respect, and I was always respectful to her, then it would be fine.
Conflict resolution is a skill. I have also worked on that btw (part of my social skills stuff). I'm better than most at this point. But is someone comes in hot and doesn't want to be talked down, there's not much I or anyone can do. If they come in direct, I can certainly work with that, and appreciate it. Direct communication is best.
Anyhow, if she came in hot, I'd probably immediately validate her feelings (today), without taking blame. What comes after that would largely be up to her.
In the end, the way it went down was her screaming at me for something I said that only tangentially with a stretch of the imagination could be linked to her real issue. She used that as the impetus to break it off, after trying to figure out how to do it for at least a week (based on my reflections). So it made no sense to me at the time, and I expressed that I understood what she was saying, and while I didn't agree, because of who she is, I had to give it serious weight and welcomed the opportunity to learn more about why my thinking may be wrong on the issue. That certainly disarmed her - which is how I found out about her conversation with herself for the previous 2 months. Because I couldn't disarm that. And she was right, I couldn't. That was already cemented. I'd like to think had it been brought up early I would have handled it the same - consider the issue and discuss. But I'll never really know.
I do believe relationships are largely about empathy and understanding another person's perspective. You don't have to agree, but you have to empathize. That takes listening. So, yes, I would continue a relationship where that opportunity exists. In fact, I want a relationship exactly like that. And I've been in relationships with assertive women FWIW, and I've had no issue with that.
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Post by serenity on Jan 24, 2020 1:01:53 GMT
I don't think you have to worry about me analyzing my part. I get that this thread looks like me playing the victim. I am not doing that. I'm really trying to understand if my ex was FA. The not caring about her ex's suggests no. And the people pleasing aspect always bothered me - as why the hell then is everyone else good enough, but not me? It's a somatic thing for me, and not rational. I'm not trying to get back. I don't want to get back. I'm just trying to make sense of the emotionally draining experience that makes/made no sense to me. Am I the right person for her? No. Do I work on myself daily? yes. Am I the perfect human? no. Do I tend to get anxious when I feel someone pulling away that I am into? Yes. And pulling away isn't defined by me as taking too long to answer a text message. Am I blaming her? No. Well, sort of. But for sure, my careless comments came from a place of insecurity and without that, things wouldn't have gone down the way they did. And I did it more than once. False bravado that certainly backfired. I have to live with that. I have worked on being more present, focusing on my self-esteem, further developed my spiritual practice, taken social skills classes (to great effect), and I've been in therapy. Quite frankly, it would be difficult to find someone else who does as much personal development as me. So much so, that I think I've past the point where it would be intimidating to any future dates. I don't think you have to worry about me owning my stuff. Either way, it wouldn't have ever worked. And yes, because of her, ultimately - not that I wouldn't have been playijg my part, but because I don't think she could be with someone long term due to her conflict avoidance. And if she fixed this? Well, I don't think she ever will, but if she did? I agree, we wouldn't be compatible. And btw, she isn't my first girlfriend. I've dated women who have strong backbones - this isn't about a proclivity for women who bury their feelings. I know my part in this. I know I was attracted to someone who showered me with praise. And as is typical on this board, I really only addressed the FA/people pleasing/conflict avoidant/not caring about ex's aspect. It then blew up into (not my doing BTW) a discussion about serious consideration for personality disorders, and blowing trivial things up. None of which I have attributed to her, and don't think is a relevant branch to go down. At least in this specific case. I'd agree if I started attributing these things to her even though it's dubious, then yes, I'm seeking out reasons it's not my fault. I see that a lot on here. Now, does it matter what my ex is or isn't? No, I suppose it doesn't. But this whole board is filled with people trying to gain insight into their ex's. Is that healthy? I don't know. Hopefully it helps me in the future. I get that the focus is external when doing this. I'm also trying to make sense of a senseless situation. This makes a lot of sense, you wishing to understand it. I have the same concerns as you do...that I'm unsure if gaining insights into our exes is the path to healing. Its possibly wiser just to move on. But not processing a traumatic and confusing situation seems even less healthy to me. Might leave us with unresolved anger, trauma, and negativity that will bite us down the track? I can only say that being on this forum has taught me to forgive and resist demonizing someone for their mental health problems. And Dhali, I thought the way you handled your ex demonstrated excellent boundaries on your part. Unlike myself and many others, you didn't get hooked into a long period of intermittent reinforcement after she flipped 180 on you. You didn't accept stonewalling as a substitute for healthy communication. When she started with the strange and hurtful character slurs, you didn't stay around to have your self esteem gradually eroded. I respect what a tough and painful call it was for you to maintain healthy boundaries. I wouldn't second guess yourself. You did real good IMO. |
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Post by dhali on Jan 24, 2020 1:31:40 GMT
Thank you serenity. <3
That’s really sweet.
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Post by Dualcitizen on Jan 24, 2020 2:19:04 GMT
Everyone here knows that I don’t want to cohabitate. I Make it clear early on. If somebody gasps, or doesn’t accept that’s reasonable immediately, I move on now. I didn’t always, and what would happen was the movement would get closer and closer with the intention firmly set upon white picket fences, sooner or later. I would feel engulfed, my senses would be prickling and deactivation followed. Then I’d think, what am I on about? Then it’d start all over again.... The craving of connection...but just can't do it. Something my ex said as well. |
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Post by mrob on Jan 24, 2020 6:04:12 GMT
Everyone here knows that I don’t want to cohabitate. I Make it clear early on. If somebody gasps, or doesn’t accept that’s reasonable immediately, I move on now. I didn’t always, and what would happen was the movement would get closer and closer with the intention firmly set upon white picket fences, sooner or later. I would feel engulfed, my senses would be prickling and deactivation followed. Then I’d think, what am I on about? Then it’d start all over again.... The craving of connection...but just can't do it. Something my ex said as well. See what you did in the other thread when you said “at the moment”? I am absolutely sure. No, never. While my back side points to the ground. Never is a long time, I understand, but it’s not a fleeting thing. |
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Post by dhali on Jan 31, 2020 1:20:21 GMT
I’ll answer for me.. 11 years living together/married. I basically got fed up living the life she wanted me to live. I felt it was all her goals. Not that I had strong opinions about it until a few years leading up to the end. I felt she nagged me incessantly towards her objectives (when really, it was ours) and I just wanted to be left alone. Everything was zero sum. I win or she wins. I took no responsibility for a damned thing. Afterall, I was the one unhappy. Basically, I didn’t want to be around anymore and withdrew
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