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Post by amber on Jan 31, 2020 2:06:38 GMT
I’ll answer for me.. 11 years living together/married. I basically got fed up living the life she wanted me to live. I felt it was all her goals. Not that I had strong opinions about it until a few years leading up to the end. I felt she nagged me incessantly towards her objectives (when really, it was ours) and I just wanted to be left alone. Everything was zero sum. I win or she wins. I took no responsibility for a damned thing. Afterall, I was the one unhappy. Basically, I didn’t want to be around anymore and withdrew Out of curiosity what were her goals that she nagged you about? Did you try to talk to her about your problem with it? Did she listen if you did? |
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Post by mrob on Jan 31, 2020 3:56:27 GMT
I’ll answer for me.. 11 years living together/married. I basically got fed up living the life she wanted me to live. I felt it was all her goals. Not that I had strong opinions about it until a few years leading up to the end. I felt she nagged me incessantly towards her objectives (when really, it was ours) and I just wanted to be left alone. Everything was zero sum. I win or she wins. I took no responsibility for a damned thing. Afterall, I was the one unhappy. Basically, I didn’t want to be around anymore and withdrew School holidays, it’s been a bit crazy here. Exactly what dhali said. I pull more weight than what I ever have. The only hard boundaries I had were where we lived and (sort of) how much debt we were in, of course, linked. That was all I had left, and when I wouldn’t cooperate, ie fall in, that’s when it fell apart. Every six months Real estate pamphlets would appear with circles around places. Family from the other side of the world would tell me we had to move. People that no idea that we were in the middle of a boom that blind Freddy could see was ending. I got one holiday of my choice in six years. All other holidays were spent going overseas to see her family, do nothing and suck up every bit of money we had. I could go on. The big thing was that I was always guilty. I couldn’t go to work without guilt, but I kept being told I needed a full time job, even though she earned far more than I ever could, and that was ok, but I couldn’t spread myself thin enough. |
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Post by dhali on Jan 31, 2020 4:47:27 GMT
Yeah, that’s how I rationalized it too. It all seems so reasonable to leave in anger because of it. But the reality is that the goals were hers, but I never knew I didn’t want them, until it was already well on the path. At that point, you’re sorta stuck. Not to mention, at the time, not really knowing what the hell I wanted. Plus you know you owe so much of the structure of your life to the other person. The though lot of leaving (also because I felt divorce would be a huge failure, and my ego was tied up into it), wasn’t much of an option. Suck it up. And you look around at married couples, and everyone seems to be sucking it up. So why upset the apple cart? I basically trained my ex to walk around my eggshells as a result of my resentment. Of which she never had an opportunity at fixing things between us. At the time, I couldn’t have told you half of this stuff, because I was unaware. The main feeling I had was- I just want to be left alone. And if I were alone, I wouldn’t have “her” chores. Why is it I have to make sure all the dishes are cleaned every night? What if I don’t want to do them tonight? Well, it would have consequences. But if I lived alone, I could do what I wanted when I wanted. If I were tired, and wanted to spend the next day outside, I could not do my dishes for 2 days living alone! How is this my life where I don’t get to do what I want to do?? That’s the sorta shit that would rattle around my brain. Or if I had a work trip, I’d have to deal with her anxiety of sleeping alone (there’d always be a long drawn out discussion). And I’d lose my shit. Like, wtf? I have to go in this trip. My ability to say - “I can imagine it’s difficult. I’m sorry you have to go through that. Please let me know what I can do to help make that time easier, and I’ll gladly help, because I love you”. Instead I was annoyed. Maybe I deserve my last fa (I kid. Sort of)
My ex knew I was unhappy, and I think she saw me as an enigma. It doesn’t help that I have very high intelligence so that she probably though she was out to lunch a lot. She was all in. While I think she’s an amazing human, and the best one I’ve ever had in my life, I do not miss being with her. At all. Never did once I left. Oh, and my life and values are all so radically different now.
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Post by amber on Jan 31, 2020 5:01:36 GMT
Yeah, that’s how I rationalized it too. It all seems so reasonable to leave in anger because of it. But the reality is that the goals were hers, but I never knew I didn’t want them, until it was already well on the path. At that point, you’re sorta stuck. Not to mention, at the time, not really knowing what the hell I wanted. Plus you know you owe so much of the structure of your life to the other person. The though lot of leaving (also because I felt divorce would be a huge failure, and my ego was tied up into it), wasn’t much of an option. Suck it up. And you look around at married couples, and everyone seems to be sucking it up. So why upset the apple cart? I basically trained my ex to walk around my eggshells as a result of my resentment. Of which she never had an opportunity at fixing things between us. At the time, I couldn’t have told you half of this stuff, because I was unaware. The main feeling I had was- I just want to be left alone. And if I were alone, I wouldn’t have “her” chores. Why is it I have to make sure all the dishes are cleaned every night? What if I don’t want to do them tonight? Well, it would have consequences. But if I lived alone, I could do what I wanted when I wanted. If I were tired, and wanted to spend the next day outside, I could not do my dishes for 2 days living alone! How is this my life where I don’t get to do what I want to do?? That’s the sorta shit that would rattle around my brain. Or if I had a work trip, I’d have to deal with her anxiety of sleeping alone (there’d always be a long drawn out discussion). And I’d lose my shit. Like, wtf? I have to go in this trip. My ability to say - “I can imagine it’s difficult. I’m sorry you have to go through that. Please let me know what I can do to help make that time easier, and I’ll gladly help, because I love you”. Instead I was annoyed. Maybe I deserve my last fa (I kid. Sort of) My ex knew I was unhappy, and I think she saw me as an enigma. It doesn’t help that I have very high intelligence so that she probably though she was out to lunch a lot. She was all in. While I think she’s an amazing human, and the best one I’ve ever had in my life, I do not miss being with her. At all. Never did once I left. Oh, and my life and values are all so radically different now. Interesting... the “I want to do what I want when I want” reminds me of how teenagers behave (no criticism meant here), I just wonder if some younger part of you was running the show. I feel for your ex if she was all in and you maybe weren’t fully;I think it’s one of the worst things having stronger love or feelings for someone in a r/ship. Have you ever felt an equal love for a partner? |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 31, 2020 5:33:23 GMT
I think it’s one of the worst things having stronger love or feelings for someone in a r/ship. Side tangent. This is actually part of AP conditioning. I know because I used to feel it. I don't know about FA or DA, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in there as well. It's related to fantasy bonding, the transactional nature of insecure attachment, and fear of being abandoned / abandoning yourself. Probably also some childhood dynamic that caused it as well. I'm not sure that there can be a feeling of equal love with insecure attachment. Because security isn't looking at it this way... it's just loving someone and that being okay, not about need. There's no me versus them if there's a proper balance of trust in self and others. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Jan 31, 2020 6:06:27 GMT
I think it’s one of the worst things having stronger love or feelings for someone in a r/ship. Side tangent. This is actually part of AP conditioning. I know because I used to feel it. I don't know about FA or DA, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in there as well. It's related to fantasy bonding, the transactional nature of insecure attachment, and fear of being abandoned / abandoning yourself. Probably also some childhood dynamic that caused it as well. I'm not sure that there can be a feeling of equal love with insecure attachment. Because security isn't looking at it this way... it's just loving someone and that being okay, not about need. There's no me versus them if there's a proper balance of trust in self and others. The old adage "if you can't love yourself, you can't love another", but the reality is, if you can't love yourself, you can't receive love from another, the true unconditional love. |
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Post by dhali on Jan 31, 2020 6:39:22 GMT
Dualcitizen- so true for me. My ex wife would tell me wonderful things about me all the time. I never heard them. I heard only the bad things. Thankfully I’ve fixed this.
Anyhow, picking at this scab has been a painful exercise as I became a bit too focused on my ex, once again. I think I’m getting to a place where I’m sort of shocked I got pulled in. I should have noticed the red flags much sooner, and disengaged. It was clouded by dopamine, and a seduction of sorts. I’ll be damned if she isn’t the sexiest thing out there. But damn it came at a cost. And I got wrapped up in it all. I feel a little foolish now. But, having said all that, I did a crap ton of work on myself over this period too. I’m a better human for it.
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Post by mrob on Jan 31, 2020 6:40:13 GMT
I think it’s one of the worst things having stronger love or feelings for someone in a r/ship. Side tangent. This is actually part of AP conditioning. I know because I used to feel it. I don't know about FA or DA, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in there as well. It's related to fantasy bonding, the transactional nature of insecure attachment, and fear of being abandoned / abandoning yourself. Probably also some childhood dynamic that caused it as well. I'm not sure that there can be a feeling of equal love with insecure attachment. Because security isn't looking at it this way... it's just loving someone and that being okay, not about need. There's no me versus them if there's a proper balance of trust in self and others. Thankyou. And yes for this FA, both sides. I’ve had it where someone is all in and I’m not. I’ve waited for the feelings and they haven’t come. Or I’ve been in and it’s plain to see they’re not. |
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Post by amber on Jan 31, 2020 6:54:41 GMT
I think it’s one of the worst things having stronger love or feelings for someone in a r/ship. Side tangent. This is actually part of AP conditioning. I know because I used to feel it. I don't know about FA or DA, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in there as well. It's related to fantasy bonding, the transactional nature of insecure attachment, and fear of being abandoned / abandoning yourself. Probably also some childhood dynamic that caused it as well. I'm not sure that there can be a feeling of equal love with insecure attachment. Because security isn't looking at it this way... it's just loving someone and that being okay, not about need. There's no me versus them if there's a proper balance of trust in self and others. Fantasy bonding is where you love the potential of someone rather than them as they are? It’s hard to imagine a love that isn’t based on all the things you just mentioned, I’m not sure I’ve ever experienced this |
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Post by serenity on Jan 31, 2020 7:29:10 GMT
Side tangent. This is actually part of AP conditioning. I know because I used to feel it. I don't know about FA or DA, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in there as well. It's related to fantasy bonding, the transactional nature of insecure attachment, and fear of being abandoned / abandoning yourself. Probably also some childhood dynamic that caused it as well. I'm not sure that there can be a feeling of equal love with insecure attachment. Because security isn't looking at it this way... it's just loving someone and that being okay, not about need. There's no me versus them if there's a proper balance of trust in self and others. Fantasy bonding is where you love the potential of someone rather than them as they are? It’s hard to imagine a love that isn’t based on all the things you just mentioned, I’m not sure I’ve ever experienced this I guess for me personally, secure attachment only came from consciously choosing secure men. Its happened for me personally twice, and I felt secure from the honeymoon onward. In my longest relationship, trust and security (the real kind) increased with time through many shared experiences and facing hardships together over 15 years. In relationships like that one, you see a trajectory of trust, that grows with time. You can't have trust by `imagining' it or `feeling secure on your own'....it comes from choosing a trustworthy partner who loves you and has your back through thick and thin. We dealt with many hard things together, from expressing boundaries, dealing with difficult people in our lives together, financial success and ruin, ectopic pregnancy and me losing my ability to bear children and nearly my life as well, natural disaster, starting business and charity ventures together. None of that would have worked if we weren't both empathetic people committed to loving one another. I got into some troubled relationships young, with people a lot like my FA/narc mother. So I really get how some people never break out of that pattern and form their opinions about relationships based on `their type'. One guy was physically abusive and that made me seek help in my teens. My therapist showed me how to compassionately self parent, and consciously choose good partners. I think I am lucky, in that my main caregiver through childhood was my secure Dad, and although I am vulnerable to falling for abusive people, I feel chemistry for men who are secure like my father. I think this is the case for most people..there is someone secure they had in their lives young, that can allow them to connect to secure partners if they choose it. Awareness and making conscious decisions makes a lot a difference IMO. |
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Post by dhali on Jan 31, 2020 21:04:48 GMT
Radical acceptance by Tara Brach will get you there, imo. Not to discount therapy, but there are all sorts of ways to achieve a different, healthier perspective.
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Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 1, 2020 0:12:25 GMT
Side tangent. This is actually part of AP conditioning. I know because I used to feel it. I don't know about FA or DA, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in there as well. It's related to fantasy bonding, the transactional nature of insecure attachment, and fear of being abandoned / abandoning yourself. Probably also some childhood dynamic that caused it as well. I'm not sure that there can be a feeling of equal love with insecure attachment. Because security isn't looking at it this way... it's just loving someone and that being okay, not about need. There's no me versus them if there's a proper balance of trust in self and others. Fantasy bonding is where you love the potential of someone rather than them as they are? It’s hard to imagine a love that isn’t based on all the things you just mentioned, I’m not sure I’ve ever experienced this Fantasy bond is an illusion of closeness and connection. Staying in a codependent relationship, giving up yourself to a relationship, reliving the enmeshment with the parent via the relationship, with no real communication etc. That's how I understand it |
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