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Post by mehere on May 7, 2020 15:36:24 GMT
The negatives were me sharing that the coach felt it was due to his source fracture wound and resulting behaviors that I wasn't falling in love back. He got defensive about why he had worthiness issues and the source fracture to begin with even tho I explained nobody is blaming you for what happened in your childhood. Its just that now youre left with results of that and its time to look at it and not just say this is who I am and its not my fault and isnt a problem. He had been spiraling since we started dating and went from being into health and fitness.... to obsessing about his body and material possessions nonstop, overanalyzing our relationship and needing constant external validation from everyone close to him. Working out incessantly and taking steroids and other harmful drugs to get the body he wanted (all while having type 1 diabetes). I couldnt respect him any longer and i certainly couldnt date him. That being said hes a kind loving romantic thoughtful person and perhaps will meet a woman willing to deal with all that or maybe will have some kind of rock bottom and change 🤷 The internal dialogue thing is very real yes. I struggle to analyze what my inner dialogue is and articulate it also without being too brutally honest, so tactfully. I think I've learned to do ok with it. With my last relationship the source wound guy..i was very open about not feeling the same as him. He was insecure to begin with tho so this really did a number on him. I was open about look I'm working on figuring out is this because of my issues, or is it that we arent compatible, can we work thru this or what. He got very defensive when i shared with him what the coach and i talked about. Im starting to wonder if anyone is my match or did i come into this lifetime with other goals, romantic love not being meant for me this time 🤔 My bar is set very high and I'm picky and its not great i sometimes wish i could be as easily pleased as so many other people seem to be. One big thing is that the coach helped me realize i need someone who is also on the personal development/ awakening path who is also growing and learning otherwise I've already outgrown them since im so driven in that way. Don’t quote me on this, but because you shared the inner dialogue (which is kudos to you for sharing) and the other person became defensive was because perhaps the negatives that were part of your dialogue were not really who he was or what he was doing, but that they were projections? That’s the only thing I can think of that could go wrong with “communicating” this inner dialogue. |
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Post by annieb on May 7, 2020 15:37:56 GMT
Thank you so much for sharing all of that. Would you mind explaining "object constancy"? I'm not familiar. Something ive done which helps in the short term at least is making list of the man's positive qualities and focusing on those. Its a tug of war tho as my mind just wants to keep going with reasons we aren't compatible or why its not working and won't work. I'll likely need to seek coaching next time im "in it" with someone but hoping to do as much work while single as i can. I honestly never regret ending it a single time tho. I feel relieved and happy and never miss them or try to get them back. I feel sad and disappointed but ready to move on. I end it with eyes wide open not out of lashing out or over reacting or feeling triggered. I really think of them as lovely but for someone else. So I'm not sure. Thank you for writing and I’m very sorry to hear about what you went through. I can relate somewhat as FA (hopefully former FA soon) especially to the kind of sadness that comes with not being able to reciprocate love. I had two DA exes and they both had trouble with object constancy with a partner (me). I was goody two shoes with both of them and they projected negative qualities on me so that they could break up with me. They negatively interpreted my actions and devalued me. I believe one of them was also a full blown narcissist. I was able to talk to my last ex (he was still chasing me after the breakup and calling), who was DA and I told him about this and that he lacked this object constancy and that he projected onto me and he literally cried. He was so very sorry and I believed him. Because I think at that point despite his devaluation of new his feelings for me really had grown. I think the breakup was very difficult for him because I think he was starting to be aware of his narcissism. And yet a few smarts later he would start with devaluation again. I used to have an anxiety (unrelatedly to these guys) and I would have a really negative thought loop about myself going on in my head. This had gone on for years. Say I would be late for work and all of a sudden the thoughts would come in: I’m a loser, always late, why can’t I get it right, etc. etc. I had been in therapy at that point maybe three months after my last breakup. At around three months mark in therapy I sat down in my room one evening and I almost spoke out loud - I love me. This was a first for me in my life (I’m 40). So a few days later I’m rushing off to work and I feel the familiar negative thoughts creeping in and lo and behold I actually caught myself thinking this negative loop. And in that moment I was able to stop it, I said, none of these things are true, you (me) are lovely, you do a great job at work and you’ll get there 5 minutes late, which is your grace period anyway, it’s all good, mama! So here I am wondering if a DA would be able to achieve a cognitive intervention with their negative thought loop/ projections/ devaluation of the other person? Can you become aware of this thought pattern and stop yourself? Because you know that if you lose this great person you will be in pain anyway. So why not interrupt the devaluation and splitting. I know this is easier said than done. If you had to ask me what technique to use, I wouldn’t know. The only thing that had actually changed in my life at the point that I was able to cognitively change my thought pattern was that I valued myself and thought of myself with kindness. I think you don’t miss them because of the negative projections. It’s a relief that they are gone obviously “with all their negative shit”, and you can thrive now. I guess it’s a fallacy of sorts. The object constancy is a term I stumbled on on my research on my last DA (narcissist), which is basically is an ability to perceive and believe that a relationship is intact despite the presence of setbacks and conflict. This sort of thing is what a child develops when they are a toddler, but also later. That despite them throwing a tantrum or pooping their pants, their parents are still there. And of course if a person has a broken family or a parent was absent, alcoholic, etc., a child does not develop this, and instead they develop fear of abandonment. When I read online then indeed making lists of positives and positive scrapbook helped some people to develop object constancy. Apparently one can develop this in adulthood with proper therapy. One thing that hinders this whole thing in my opinion is that while with friends and family this is easier to develop as you know they will pretty much always be there on the periphery even if you don’t talk to them, but with romantic relationships at least I find that my own fear of abandonment is a lot more acute, and I think it’s because of the finality of a potential breakup. |
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Post by dhali on May 7, 2020 15:50:49 GMT
I do t know that I’d latch onto the last person and analyze why you couldn’t attach. He seems to have a host of issues. And someone can’t get mad at you for telling them your truth. Yes, tact is necessary, but the communication issue here is on him. You gave him every opportunity to work on himself and expressed where you were. If he didn’t like it, he could walk. He did t accept you for you as much as you didn’t accept him for him.
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Post by dhali on May 7, 2020 15:57:17 GMT
One other thing to check out.. non violent communication. You may already know about it, but you could do a weekly 1hr get together with an nvc group (like an hour a week), and work on how you both communicate with each other. That’s bonding 101.
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Post by mehere on May 7, 2020 15:59:05 GMT
Def going to research object constancy. Thank you! Thank you so much for sharing all of that. Would you mind explaining "object constancy"? I'm not familiar. Something ive done which helps in the short term at least is making list of the man's positive qualities and focusing on those. Its a tug of war tho as my mind just wants to keep going with reasons we aren't compatible or why its not working and won't work. I'll likely need to seek coaching next time im "in it" with someone but hoping to do as much work while single as i can. I honestly never regret ending it a single time tho. I feel relieved and happy and never miss them or try to get them back. I feel sad and disappointed but ready to move on. I end it with eyes wide open not out of lashing out or over reacting or feeling triggered. I really think of them as lovely but for someone else. So I'm not sure. I think you don’t miss them because of the negative projections. It’s a relief that they are gone obviously “with all their negative shit”, and you can thrive now. I guess it’s a fallacy of sorts. The object constancy is a term I stumbled on on my research on my last DA (narcissist), which is basically is an ability to perceive and believe that a relationship is intact despite the presence of setbacks and conflict. This sort of thing is what a child develops when they are a toddler, but also later. That despite them throwing a tantrum or pooping their pants, their parents are still there. And of course if a person has a broken family or a parent was absent, alcoholic, etc., a child does not develop this, and instead they develop fear of abandonment. When I read online then indeed making lists of positives and positive scrapbook helped some people to develop object constancy. Apparently one can develop this in adulthood with proper therapy. One thing that hinders this whole thing in my opinion is that while with friends and family this is easier to develop as you know they will pretty much always be there on the periphery even if you don’t talk to them, but with romantic relationships at least I find that my own fear of abandonment is a lot more acute, and I think it’s because of the finality of a potential breakup. |
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Post by annieb on May 7, 2020 15:59:14 GMT
The negatives were me sharing that the coach felt it was due to his source fracture wound and resulting behaviors that I wasn't falling in love back. He got defensive about why he had worthiness issues and the source fracture to begin with even tho I explained nobody is blaming you for what happened in your childhood. Its just that now youre left with results of that and its time to look at it and not just say this is who I am and its not my fault and isnt a problem. He had been spiraling since we started dating and went from being into health and fitness.... to obsessing about his body and material possessions nonstop, overanalyzing our relationship and needing constant external validation from everyone close to him. Working out incessantly and taking steroids and other harmful drugs to get the body he wanted (all while having type 1 diabetes). I couldnt respect him any longer and i certainly couldnt date him. That being said hes a kind loving romantic thoughtful person and perhaps will meet a woman willing to deal with all that or maybe will have some kind of rock bottom and change 🤷 Don’t quote me on this, but because you shared the inner dialogue (which is kudos to you for sharing) and the other person became defensive was because perhaps the negatives that were part of your dialogue were not really who he was or what he was doing, but that they were projections? That’s the only thing I can think of that could go wrong with “communicating” this inner dialogue. Gotcha! So this person couldn’t validate himself (most of us, who are on the metal health path learn at a certain point that the inability to validate ourselves, the codependency and neediness had to be dealt with or else, and most of us where on the rock bottom to come to this realization). Which is basically the bottom of all addictions. And no, it’s very hard to have a relationship with an untreated addict no matter how charming they can otherwise be. I hear you on other people being able to have relationships and being happy at a baseline, and I don’t really know how to get there with my SO, but I have that with my friends and family, and o have to say that I developed these relationships very purposefully myself. I often was the person reaching out and talking and solving issues and having conflict if need be, but I never cut them off. Vs my romantic relationships I can’t say the same about because maybe my fear of abandonment was so much more pronounced. Not sure. But I have a very good feeling about you!  |
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Post by mehere on May 7, 2020 16:02:43 GMT
I have not heard of it thank you for teaching me that! I will keep it in mind for when I'm in a relationship again. First have to overcome this aversion to relationships and actually be willing to enter one! Haha One other thing to check out.. non violent communication. You may already know about it, but you could do a weekly 1hr get together with an nvc group (like an hour a week), and work on how you both communicate with each other. That’s bonding 101. |
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Post by dhali on May 7, 2020 16:04:43 GMT
It also hits the personal development stuff and you do it together.
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Post by dhali on May 7, 2020 19:22:06 GMT
By the way, I don’t actually see you having done anything strange with regards to that relationship you discussed. That guy is a disaster. I say that empathetically. And you’re more than fine asking someone you’re dating to show up as an adult, and to share some values. And if they refuse to examine where their values differ from yours, you should feel some sort of revulsion, imo. I don’t think that’s an avoidant thing. In fact, based on what you wrote, and how you handled the situation, that’s not avoidant. I’m more curious on what’s up with even entertaining half of this stuff? This isn’t the stuff of anything I’ve ever come across. I could empathize, but that doesn’t mean I’m there to save anyone. I don’t think an avoidant would have been even close to as empathetic as you were. You attract a person for a reason.. what’s that reason?
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Post by mehere on May 7, 2020 20:19:05 GMT
So the telling of my last 2 relationships was in response to the question i was asked about what if someone checks more boxes and i am trying a real relationship. Those were times I genuinely wanted that and was giving it a lot of effort. Ive been in a place now for a year where serious relationships make me nauseous and i have zero desire. Im wondering if its because of my DA tendencies and if I work on it will i want that again. I can be SA or DA. *I'm 39 and have never been in love Why am I entertaining what? And what isnt like anything you've come across? In my dating life now I basically run if they want more or first sign of a real issue and keep hurting people inadvertently. Even tho i tell them immediately that I only want to date casually. It doesn't feel good all around. I can usually spot an anxious attachment before we even meet or at most a first date and i dont proceed. Theres a pattern where pretty quickly most men I date seem to spiral or unravel with something that wasn't really or wasn't at all an issue at the beginning. Its very odd and im trying to figure it out. Also the ones i was in a relationship with the "disasters" are ones who made it past my initial screenings of the even bigger disasters and red flags in the dating pool and I start wondering if anyone is actually in a good place to date. Hence feeling judgy. My friends keep telling me to start a podcast with all of my dating stories I've had a lot of real doozies. By the way, I don’t actually see you having done anything strange with regards to that relationship you discussed. That guy is a disaster. I say that empathetically. And you’re more than fine asking someone you’re dating to show up as an adult, and to share some values. And if they refuse to examine where their values differ from yours, you should feel some sort of revulsion, imo. I don’t think that’s an avoidant thing. In fact, based on what you wrote, and how you handled the situation, that’s not avoidant. I’m more curious on what’s up with even entertaining half of this stuff? This isn’t the stuff of anything I’ve ever come across. I could empathize, but that doesn’t mean I’m there to save anyone. I don’t think an avoidant would have been even close to as empathetic as you were. You attract a person for a reason.. what’s that reason? |
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Post by serenity on May 7, 2020 20:27:07 GMT
The negatives were me sharing that the coach felt it was due to his source fracture wound and resulting behaviors that I wasn't falling in love back. He got defensive about why he had worthiness issues and the source fracture to begin with even tho I explained nobody is blaming you for what happened in your childhood. Its just that now youre left with results of that and its time to look at it and not just say this is who I am and its not my fault and isnt a problem. He had been spiraling since we started dating and went from being into health and fitness.... to obsessing about his body and material possessions nonstop, overanalyzing our relationship and needing constant external validation from everyone close to him. Working out incessantly and taking steroids and other harmful drugs to get the body he wanted (all while having type 1 diabetes). I couldnt respect him any longer and i certainly couldnt date him. That being said hes a kind loving romantic thoughtful person and perhaps will meet a woman willing to deal with all that or maybe will have some kind of rock bottom and change 🤷 Don’t quote me on this, but because you shared the inner dialogue (which is kudos to you for sharing) and the other person became defensive was because perhaps the negatives that were part of your dialogue were not really who he was or what he was doing, but that they were projections? That’s the only thing I can think of that could go wrong with “communicating” this inner dialogue. Thanks for explaining the situation more; I feel those were legitimate reasons to back off from the relationship too. Also, just wondering if you have considered that your attachment style may be FA? FA's often swing avoidant in relationships with Anxious types, and can swing anxious with extremely dismissive partners. Also, DA's usually have a ton of ego defenses and mental roadblocks that you don't seem to demonstrate in your posts. You do seem very empathetic and sensitive like an FA. |
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Post by mehere on May 7, 2020 20:37:03 GMT
Its possible but in the quizzes and such I dont score for FA. I don't really crave intimacy. No trust issues. I love being alone rarely want a serious relationship etc. I don't resonate with feeling afraid or scared of any part of relationships i just feel disinterested or apathetic. I meet most of the list for DA but can also be secure. I am also a psychic medium and empath. So regardless of attachment style i feel everything from other people so much so its in my own body without them saying a word. Ive done a lot of work on myself. Without those components Id probably be a lot less caring but still DA. The negatives were me sharing that the coach felt it was due to his source fracture wound and resulting behaviors that I wasn't falling in love back. He got defensive about why he had worthiness issues and the source fracture to begin with even tho I explained nobody is blaming you for what happened in your childhood. Its just that now youre left with results of that and its time to look at it and not just say this is who I am and its not my fault and isnt a problem. He had been spiraling since we started dating and went from being into health and fitness.... to obsessing about his body and material possessions nonstop, overanalyzing our relationship and needing constant external validation from everyone close to him. Working out incessantly and taking steroids and other harmful drugs to get the body he wanted (all while having type 1 diabetes). I couldnt respect him any longer and i certainly couldnt date him. That being said hes a kind loving romantic thoughtful person and perhaps will meet a woman willing to deal with all that or maybe will have some kind of rock bottom and change 🤷 Thanks for explaining the situation more; I feel those were legitimate reasons to back off from the relationship too. Also, just wondering if you have considered that your attachment style may be FA? FA's often swing avoidant in relationships with Anxious types, and can swing anxious with extremely dismissive partners. Also, DA's usually have a ton of ego defenses and mental roadblocks that you don't seem to demonstrate in your posts. You do seem very empathetic and sensitive like an FA. |
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Post by dhali on May 7, 2020 20:52:31 GMT
Meaning the host of issues that man was dealing with. It’s a lot. I’ve never come across that in dating. Nothing close. What was the attraction?
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Post by mehere on May 7, 2020 20:57:56 GMT
The attraction was some shared interests such as health and fitness and rare alcohol use, no drug use. He was in therapy at the time so i saw it as encouraging that he was working on himself. He was also very open and in touch with a lot of his feelings. Very generous and caring and respectful of my boundaries. Insightful in ways. He got much worse after we started dating or i would have run initially. Meaning the host of issues that man was dealing with. It’s a lot. I’ve never come across that in dating. Nothing close. What was the attraction? |
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early
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Post by early on May 7, 2020 22:24:26 GMT
This is not happening in a vacuum. Your current, potential or future partner is feeling from the other side at the same time.
If he/she is the slightest bit wary, or has been given reason to be, then they know something is off. They may believe it's their problem as well, just from the conversations you have had.
That should be a positive in that they are aware and do maybe care. And if they are open to working on it with you, then even better.
Your list may be an impossible one for anyone to ever tick off due to the list itself. Some people like it that way.
Just a thought.
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