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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 5:46:52 GMT
Hey, I have a serious question for any tried-and-true dismissive Avoidant on this forum. I am honestly asking on behalf of my children. Although I am an anxious, I am aware of it now and am consciously focusing on recovery and not being a pathetic idiot anymore. I am ashamed of what I once was, a decade ago and before.
So if it was just me, I am so over my DA ex. I'm tired of it.
But it's my children I am asking for. They're young still. Not only are they happier when they think their parents are getting back together, they are even healthier. How I wish that it had no affect on that, but it does. Too much to go into here.
And either way, whether I gave my DA yet another shot or not, she's still gonna suck me dry financially, so that's irrelevant.
My question is for you DAs is, if I were to do a thing like, say, buy Jeb's book (which I would automatically read for myself anyway), and then give it to my ex, and tell her I'll give her fifty bucks if she ever actually reads it, and never bother her about it again unless she actually reads it and comes to me to collect her fifty bucks---for you DAs: How much do you think a DA is truly capable of changing, in a practical sense? I mean, I think I as an awakened anxious have made some serious strides in curtailing my needs for a great amount of intimacy. I let her know the last time we almost got back together for the children that I don't even care if she touches me or is affectionate, as long as TWICE A WEEK, we are going to have sex at a time that I want. If she wants any more than that (not likely at all), fine. But twice a week, she's giving me her body, no more sexual starvation for the one with the average sex drive. I don't even care if she just lies there and does starfish sex, whatever, I am just no longer going to be sexually defrauded by her almost completely.
I am just wondering if you other DAs thought that a little self awareness would bring a DA around to even that level of physical commitment.
I hope you can appreciate now that, though I am anxious, I am no longer asking for much at all. Just for heaven's sake, if I could just get frickin laid twice a week, every week, at a time of MY choosing (because if she chooses it will be when I am half asleep, I am not falling for that anymore) then she can go do whatever the hell she wants the rest of the time, I don't care. I got plenty of other hobbies now. It's what happens when you're pulling out of this crap cycle.
But it frankly makes me supremely trepidatious that I hear no one talking about any meaningful level of recovery of normalcy for DAs. I don't wanna get back into this and then have her renege on the one meager thing I am asking for (and needing).
Aw crap. If only I hadn't had children with her. I'd be so gone right now. Just a trail of dust blowing in the wind.
(By the way, lest you confuse the fact that we have children together with the idea that we ever had regular sex, take a moment to do the math: two children, 14 years of unprotected sex---now does that give a better appreciation of how rare the sex was?)
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Post by pooched on Oct 6, 2017 16:45:17 GMT
Trinn,
I sense your frustration here. Here's some food for thought.
First, your DA ex may read the book, but will not acknowledge that she is a DA.
Second, why would you want to have sex like that? Is it to punish her? Why not move on? Break the cycle. Heal yourself from your past toxic relationship, take a chance and find someone else. It's much more satisfying and you'll be much happier.
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Post by learningalongtheway on Oct 6, 2017 17:14:48 GMT
I let her know the last time we almost got back together for the children that I don't even care if she touches me or is affectionate, as long as TWICE A WEEK, we are going to have sex at a time that I want. If she wants any more than that (not likely at all), fine. But twice a week, she's giving me her body, no more sexual starvation for the one with the average sex drive. I don't even care if she just lies there and does starfish sex, whatever, I am just no longer going to be sexually defrauded by her almost completely.I am just wondering if you other DAs thought that a little self awareness would bring a DA around to even that level of physical commitment. I hope you can appreciate now that, though I am anxious, I am no longer asking for much at all. Just for heaven's sake, if I could just get frickin laid twice a week, every week, at a time of MY choosing (because if she chooses it will be when I am half asleep, I am not falling for that anymore) then she can go do whatever the hell she wants the rest of the time, I don't care. I got plenty of other hobbies now.  You obviously need professional help.....and I definitely don't think you can expect any lasting change with the mindset you have now. It seems like you don't love her, just move on. |
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Post by satori on Oct 6, 2017 17:41:50 GMT
Hi trinn,
What is holding you back from moving on with your life? It's obvious that the core issues is not your DA. She is just a whipping post at this point for all the anger and frustration that you've build up. Pooched is right, why not move on? Being connected with your DA or anybody else that is toxic in your life is holding you back, but that is the choice you make. Take that energy and invest it back to yourself so you can heal. View this as an opportunity for you to address those outstanding issues within yourself. As pooched said it so eloquently, "It's much more satisfying and you'll be much happier." Take care and keep us posted.
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Post by serene13 on Oct 6, 2017 18:18:38 GMT
Hey Trinn - I'm going to add this to the above replies. We can all sense your complete unhappiness, frustration, and resulting bitterness from your relationship. If the only reason you are considering this is your kids, they can sense your utter despair. They may want their parents together, but I completely doubt that want you this unhappy. They would be much better off with at least one healthy, happy parent. You would not be doing them any favors by going back into this relationship. I believe you need to figure out how to be their best parent on your own.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 19:43:28 GMT
Trinn, I sense your frustration here. Here's some food for thought. First, your DA ex may read the book, but will not acknowledge that she is a DA. Second, why would you want to have sex like that? Is it to punish her? Why not move on? Break the cycle. Heal yourself from your past toxic relationship, take a chance and find someone else. It's much more satisfying and you'll be much happier. A) There's no moving on from someone with a direct siphon tube into your wallet. No money. B) children are young still. So no time to meet anybody as well as no money. C) I can handle going it alone, but as stated, children have had their health affected more than I wanted. When I first divorced my way out of the marriage license at least, I was carefully weighing which would be harder on them, growing up in dysfunctionality, or growing up with divorced parents. It was a close call narrow decision either way, but I may have chosen the path that was slightly harder in them. I don't know. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 20:36:20 GMT
In answer to A - I think it's worth challenging you thinking here - detachment may not be possible logistically but it is absolutely possible, preferable and healthy to emotionally detach from a person or a situation which is damaging you.
B - Children are still young - so when the time it right plenty of time to meet someone - money is irrelevant.
C - Difficult one, but doing what's best for yourself has a knock on affect for your kids - whatever you decide detachment is the place you need to get to here - so that your ex's behaviour no longer derails you and you can view the situation for what it is - with equanimity and kindness rather than hatred and blame. Isn't that what we all strive to teach our kids? Not that life is easy, but that life it full of ups and downs that can be handled in whatever way we choose.
Not easy
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 22:46:55 GMT
When you have children, truly your life is no longer your own. Not if you're not a psychopath or whatever.
Had I only known there could be such a bleak, painful, long, dead trudge of a dysfunctional cycle between two people, I would never have even dated.
Too dangerous. I thought I was being rational at the time. I set out to deliberately find someone NOT like my mother. And on a personality and temperament level I did; but on the subconscious level, on the "emotionally unavailable vibes" level, without my realizing it my subconscious was honing right in on that superficial love bombing thing she did, like a moth to an incinerating flame.
That such a sick dynamic as this is even possible between two people makes dating and mating soooo not worth it. As if there were not already a dozen other societal puss sore issues that make it not worth the risk, there's also this.
Yeah, it's pretty creepy when just fulfilling one's most rudimentary conjugal duties for a few minutes a week is too much to ask of a DA. Crickets. I hear crickets and silence.
What a nightmare.
You folks with no young children tying you to your source of frustration, you have no idea. No idea. Any advice you could give is like listening to advice on parenting from non-parents. Yeah. Sure. Whatever.
I can check out all I want, but I can't LEAVE. And, over time, as my DA notices I am checked out, she starts to slowly, glacially, progressively drop the paranoid robot act and gradually (albeit temporarily) act like a real, live, non-vulcan human being again. The more checked out I get, the more she'll eventually (albeit temporarily) match me with her feigned attempt at artificial affection for me.
I have to keep seeing her. Multiple times a week. For many years to come. As we switch off children duties.
That means I gotta KEEP checking myself out to a newer, stronger level, every time she recalibrates and tries to give me just enough more vague pseudo-affection to rope me in yet again.
In other words, it's a sick game I gotta keep playing, over and over and over, for years to come with this person.
This is so beyond effed up I don't even have words for it anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 3:57:20 GMT
- Children are still young - so when the time it right plenty of time to meet someone - money is irrelevant. Ha. I couldn't let this one go. Only a female could write this. Listen, when you're a dude, and if it's a relationship with a female you're after, money is ALWAYS relevant. You can learn seduction tactics and pump and dump women with very little money, but you can't do a relationship with a female with very little money. It's like an ugly woman trying to have a relationship with a man: men might use her for a night, but if she's ugly, good luck getting more than beer-goggle one night stands. When it comes to money: a man will finance a woman for life, but never will a woman do the same for a man for very long. Hypergamy is reality. |
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Post by DearLover on Oct 7, 2017 11:26:36 GMT
I stayed in a dysfunctional relationship from much more than I should because of my child. I had exactly the same fears. I can guarantee to you that your children will be happier with divorced parents than in a dysfunctional household with two sick role models pretending they are ok. You work on yourself and give them an example of self love and self acceptance if she won't. Of course they will still become adults who have some challenges to deal with in the area of intimacy but this will be their path to walk on. You walk yours.
I was the wife who lied there like a dead fish while my exH would penetrate me to satisfy himself. If I felt anything it was nausea. It was degrading for both of us. Plus he would turn even more passive aggressive, sometimes violent, if I refused. I did it for my child...I was the A_P and he was the FA. I really wanted intimacy and growth at the beginning of the relationship. I believed he could heal and I could help. I saw too much potential and ignored the reality.
I am healing now and working on becoming SECURE but it took a 9 months relationship with a PND (after being single for two years relentlessly working on myself) to wake me up for good. It is arduous work but very rewarding too.
I wish you the best and lots of strength.
I recommend David Deida books. Some men find some answers through him. And even I do as a female.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 13:14:28 GMT
I let her know the last time we almost got back together for the children that I don't even care if she touches me or is affectionate, as long as TWICE A WEEK, we are going to have sex at a time that I want. If she wants any more than that (not likely at all), fine. But twice a week, she's giving me her body, no more sexual starvation for the one with the average sex drive. I don't even care if she just lies there and does starfish sex, whatever, I am just no longer going to be sexually defrauded by her almost completely.I am just wondering if you other DAs thought that a little self awareness would bring a DA around to even that level of physical commitment. I hope you can appreciate now that, though I am anxious, I am no longer asking for much at all. Just for heaven's sake, if I could just get frickin laid twice a week, every week, at a time of MY choosing (because if she chooses it will be when I am half asleep, I am not falling for that anymore) then she can go do whatever the hell she wants the rest of the time, I don't care. I got plenty of other hobbies now. You obviously need professional help.....and I definitely don't think you can expect any lasting change with the mindset you have now. It seems like you don't love her, just move on. And if you think that sexually defrauding a spouse is acceptable, then you need help yourself. And your poor hapless spouse needs it even more. You're the reason there is a burgeoning MGTOW movement. Modern Western females with your all-take-no-give mentality are exactly the cause of that. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 13:28:14 GMT
Trinn I get that this is a very difficult time. The majority of people on here have at some point along the way been in a similar situation, or at least feeling something akin to the anger, hurt and frustration that you're going through.
It may feel like you have no choices here - and you you can talk yourself into that and it will become a reality.
In fact we all have choice - doesn't make it easy but you are not tied into a life of misery ever after unless you choose this path. You have mentioned children - yes they change your life but how you see that change is up to you. It may seem I have no experience here but as a woman who left a toxic relationship with my six children in tow, the youngest being 2 years old at the time, I think I have some qualification to speak here.
And yes - as you mentioned earlier, I am a woman. I feel sad that you have tarred us with the same brush as your ex wife - is it really true that all women go for in a man is money? Maybe I am the one exception in the world but I truly doubt it. When I left my relationship I forged a new career scraped my way in the world for some years but have eventually reached a point where my world is rebuilt, I am financially comfortable, have great relationships with all my kids and a working business relationship in my dealings with my ex. When I left I had a choice - to spend life bitter and angry and live as an eternal victim or to deal with the very real hurt and physical an emotional damage I had suffered and attempt to build a new existence
What I am really trying to say is that it might pay to question your assumptions, challenge your thinking. Your ex is a fixed and there is nothing you can do about that but you genuinely can change your reality by changing your thinking and your reactions. Distance is possible even when you are tied financially and with children.
This may - for a million reasons, seem like an impossibility to you. It takes hard work and more pain and having just come out of a marriage like yours, this must be the last thing you feel like doing. Arduous work as DearLover said - but worth it for you and your children.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 13:36:46 GMT
I stayed in a dysfunctional relationship from much more than I should because of my child. I had exactly the same fears. I can guarantee to you that your children will be happier with divorced parents than in a dysfunctional household with two sick role models pretending they are ok. You work on yourself and give them an example of self love and self acceptance if she won't. Of course they will still become adults who have some challenges to deal with in the area of intimacy but this will be their path to walk on. You walk yours. I was the wife who lied there like a dead fish while my exH would penetrate me to satisfy himself. If I felt anything it was nausea. It was degrading for both of us. Plus he would turn even more passive aggressive, sometimes violent, if I refused. I did it for my child...I was the A_P and he was the FA. I really wanted intimacy and growth at the beginning of the relationship. I believed he could heal and I could help. I saw too much potential and ignored the reality. I am healing now and working on becoming SECURE but it took a 9 months relationship with a PND (after being single for two years relentlessly working on myself) to wake me up for good. It is arduous work but very rewarding too. I wish you the best and lots of strength. I recommend David Deida books. Some men find some answers through him. And even I do as a female. Well of course he would become upset if you refused. How long were the stretches of time in which you refused?? Why is it so difficult for modern females to realize that the second most important reason we men marry you is to have exclusive and REGULAR sex with you? What has gone wrong with modern Western women that they no longer know this most obvious component of a marriage agreement? Women of previous centuries had no such problem understanding this basic marital agreement. Women of non-western cultures today have no problem understanding this basic marital agreement. If you never planned on having regular sex with your husband, then you never should have married him. That's on you. You committed fraud. If it was a psychological problem where sex made you nauseous, then seek help for that. Don't blame him and defraud him. You made the agreement. Would you have been okay if he had stopped going to work? If his workplace made him sick, so he just quit and didn't bother looking for another job, how long would you have been okay with that? |
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Post by learningalongtheway on Oct 7, 2017 18:36:17 GMT
You obviously need professional help.....and I definitely don't think you can expect any lasting change with the mindset you have now. It seems like you don't love her, just move on. And if you think that sexually defrauding a spouse is acceptable, then you need help yourself. And your poor hapless spouse needs it even more. You're the reason there is a burgeoning MGTOW movement. Modern Western females with your all-take-no-give mentality are exactly the cause of that. You misunderstand. Anyone that has an attachment disorder need professional help. Telling you wife to read a book isn't going to help much since it clearly hasn't help you other than identifying patterns of behavior. And most women in a relationship want to have regular sex too. Maybe sex with you is terrible for reasons you don't know of? And in this situation I definitely feel you should go your own way if you're not going to seek professional help. If you think "modern western females with your all-take-no-give mentality", you're not going to be successful in your current or future relationships. |
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Post by DearLover on Oct 7, 2017 18:58:27 GMT
I stayed in a dysfunctional relationship from much more than I should because of my child. I had exactly the same fears. I can guarantee to you that your children will be happier with divorced parents than in a dysfunctional household with two sick role models pretending they are ok. You work on yourself and give them an example of self love and self acceptance if she won't. Of course they will still become adults who have some challenges to deal with in the area of intimacy but this will be their path to walk on. You walk yours. I was the wife who lied there like a dead fish while my exH would penetrate me to satisfy himself. If I felt anything it was nausea. It was degrading for both of us. Plus he would turn even more passive aggressive, sometimes violent, if I refused. I did it for my child...I was the A_P and he was the FA. I really wanted intimacy and growth at the beginning of the relationship. I believed he could heal and I could help. I saw too much potential and ignored the reality. I am healing now and working on becoming SECURE but it took a 9 months relationship with a PND (after being single for two years relentlessly working on myself) to wake me up for good. It is arduous work but very rewarding too. I wish you the best and lots of strength. I recommend David Deida books. Some men find some answers through him. And even I do as a female. Well of course he would become upset if you refused. How long were the stretches of time in which you refused?? Why is it so difficult for modern females to realize that the second most important reason we men marry you is to have exclusive and REGULAR sex with you? What has gone wrong with modern Western women that they no longer know this most obvious component of a marriage agreement? Women of previous centuries had no such problem understanding this basic marital agreement. Women of non-western cultures today have no problem understanding this basic marital agreement. If you never planned on having regular sex with your husband, then you never should have married him. That's on you. You committed fraud. If it was a psychological problem where sex made you nauseous, then seek help for that. Don't blame him and defraud him. You made the agreement. Would you have been okay if he had stopped going to work? If his workplace made him sick, so he just quit and didn't bother looking for another job, how long would you have been okay with that? The only time he would actually look at me, talk to me, 'listen' to me or even touch me was when he wanted sex. And he was always drunk when he wanted sex...coupled to the fact that he would go weeks without washing...I think that even you Trinn would be turned off by this. He worked hard but played even harder...he spent all of our money (I worked as much as he did but also was sole responsible for child duties and household duties as well as finance's administration) in bars after work, buying alcohol, cigarets and drugs for himself and his "friends".
When he had time off work he was either sleeping or glued to the TV. No family quality time together, no couple's quality time together, ever. I always felt like a single parent of a small child and a grumpy irresponsible teenager...What woman wants to have sex with a grumpy irresponsible man who acts like a teenager and is constantly smelly and drunk?
I tried really hard to have a normal marriage, all I wanted was a normal husband and a normal family, I eventually got turned off for good (it lasted 7 years) and got the strength to separate.
I remember the day after my daughter was born, all of the labour effort and pain during the night, I was breastfeeding, he whispered in my ear "you look miserable by the way"
I remember the day I arranged babysitting after saving some money to pay and go to a nice restaurant for a date night, I didn't have money to buy a new outfit but I borrowed a nice dress from my friend. He criticised my dress as soon as we were out of the door...I am an attractive, fit and healthy woman and can send you photos if you don't believe. I was disappointed but still, I spent the whole night trying to be romantic, trying to connect and to be a normal loving couple. It was almost as if he wasn't there. No effort at all, not on the date night, not ever...But he always expected me to be ready to be touched and aroused with the click of his finger...I used to say that I felt like he treated me the same way he treated a light bulb's 'on/off' switch button.
Oh I also remember now the day I was ultra desperate, crying at home late at night because of a mistake that I done at work and his way of comforting me was to shove his penis in my mouth!
By the way, he wasn't only upset when I refused sex, he was an abusive FA, emotionally and mentally unstable, I called the police to my home for protection 3 times. The police officers had to physically remove him because he was a threat and going mental. Social services urged me to leave him for the sake of my daughter if I didn't care about my own sake. After the third time, there was a fourth incident where I left the premisses with my daughter myself instead of calling the police once again. After that I knew that things never would change for the better, only escalate for worse.
Alas, maybe I should have given him more and more sex and none of the above would never have happened.
I will leave this thread now, I won't overshare anymore. I won't pretend I understand your anger because I am not a male and although I have been through a lot I haven't been through exactly what you have been through. I am just a stranger on the internet who got help and support from other strangers who went through similar pain and now I try to pay it forward. If it doesn't help or serve you at least I hope it will be of benefit to other readers. |
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