Me (recovering FA) with another FA

You posted this as I was writing my response. So apologies if didn't acknowledge anything you said in here. I will reflect on it.

krolle, the problem as I see it is that you've been involved with personality disordered women, and not healthy women. Emotions are messy sometimes, and certainly intellect can be used to help resolve them, if the intellect is applied to the emotion and actually acknowledges it and works with it. I don't believe the intellect can be helpful in the resolution of emotions if it is used to bypass them.

Dealing with the physiological impulses connected to emotion is very helpful as well, but again, by acknowledging those impulses and working with them, directly. So, a run to dispel the energy of a fight is somewhat useful physiologically, and therefore it will improve the quality of the mind because of the way that physiology and the mind are so chemically connected. But if you actively pay attention to the feeling in your body, that accompanies emotion, you can learn what message it is giving you, and it is usually a message of emotion. The two, intellect and emotion, are all intertwined of course. I know you are familiar with the physical sensation of emotion/reaction because you've mentioned feelings in your stomach. Our bodies are translators I would say, of emotional messaging we have received. They relay messages such as "This situation feels dangerous. I feel angry! or I feel happy! Or, I am compelled to help!" It's kind of like the emotion is the energy, and the mind can decide what to do with it IF it understands the message.

Some may see it another way- it is all very visceral and some identify feelings and interact with them naturally from the word Go. Many of us don't identify the feelings and interact with them naturally, until we develop that... but rest assured, on some level they drive us and we Want them. Why else do irrational things? That's the negative side not of having emotions, but of not identifying them and interacting with them in a conscious way.

Perhaps you've been involved with over-emotional reactive women because you're not in touch with your own emotion, and react primitively to the internal drives instead of in a conscious way that really listens to your own emotions. Other people's emotions can take the steering wheel of our lives if we don't allow our own emotions to have a say. And, if you don't get a handle on emotions and I mean actually handle, and touch them, they will handle you. I know you are very confused about a lot of things, having been bandied about by others, and that's why I believe that turning toward all the emotion inside yourself, instead of away, can be very helpful for you. You have the care and intelligence to do a better job with yourself emotionally than others have. It seems others have taken it upon themselves to identify and interpret your emotions in terrible ways- saying that your reluctance to have sex in conflict is selfish, cruel. And then they attempted to influence your choices and actions around that. Also, you were unsure and asked other people about their interpretations- but it sounds like you got some really unhelpful interpretations. You can, and are obliged to identify your own emotions in trying situations, and apply your intelligence. You can stand up for yourself KNOWING what your feelings and motivations are, and that those feelings are very good messenger... then you can make a solid, intelligent choice driven by feelings to do exactly what you need to do in order to take care of yourself. Do that daily and you will steer yourself out of troubled relationships much more easily. And, that kind of emotional access can steer you into much more healthy, productive, rewarding relationships.

It's all very complex and I'm not sure that I've adequately expressed myself here. We can be attracted to that which we have suppressed in ourselves. Initially there must have been an emotionality in your partners that was appealing, which didn't seem destructive. People have good and bad, even personality disordered people. So you may have enjoyed your opposite the way I enjoy mine, in my boyfriend. He's so affectionate with me, warm and emotional. I respond well to that although I didn't initially offer it to him, as I'm avoidant and he's not. I won't even say I'm avoidant, I'll say, I've been repressed in a lot of ways and I'm correcting that.

Our minds are plastic. They can be molded, changed, developed. We cannot separate our mind from emotion and live a human life. I have seen for myself that integrating emotion in a healthy way is the only way to have true understanding, of myself, others, and actually, the world. Natural beauty evokes emotion in me, that is not separate from the beauty I see in relationships. People are a natural wonder. Some seem like a natural disaster. Joke. (Here's where the rational mind can help- what do you do after a natural disaster? You assess, rebuild, and learn how to prepare for the natural disaster. And you take care of your emotions along the way, because there are losses, there is grief and fear and all kinds of emotions in disaster. You get my point. )

Anyway, I'm trailing off in an effort to express my mind on this- ha. But if you could see my face you'd see I'm smiling and warmly asking you to relate to me with your emotions, too... because it's good. 😃

No worries! And on the above- I do tend toward intellectual conversations, but when it comes to taking care of the relationship piece that won't do, as we are emotional creatures and logic doesn't take care of it all. For example. Logically, we know that a parent's actions of abuse or neglect are not a child's fault. A child cannot intellectualize that, because of the inborn need for attachment and security: and love. Shame results on the child, and all sorts of negative emotions, if the needs for love and security are not met. Research shows that a child's well being is dependent on not logical care, being treated as an intellectual creature, but upon love, nurture. physical contact. We are not merely intellects. Our physiology continually reacts in ways connected to emotion.


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I have no counter argument against this after what I wrote in your progress thread. You speak truth.

I agree with disliking the word abuse being used to describe general avoidant behavior….in none of my relationships did I feel abused….I did feel mislead for a while, but I have to own that on my side of the fence I wanted so desperately for things to workout with B that I never asked about his doubts with any true sincerity behind it.  If we are all adults…surelywe can take responsibility for our side of the fence and recognize that the other person is responsible for his or her’s.  I don’t know where this all or nothing….one person is completely wrong and one person is the victim came from.  Life is rarely that dry cut unless it is regarding an adult/child situation….where I would agree that the adult is fully responsible.  Otherwise, adults need to step up and take responsibility for their own role in prolonging a bad situation….otherwise nothing changes.

FWIW, the material I have read on the subject of pathologies connects avoidant attachment with grandiose narcissism at its end of spectrum worst, and anxious preoccupied attachment with covert narcissism at its worst. In the middle are many shades of grey and other factors including environmental, situational, individual personality and couple dynamics to name a few. The generalizations that have been flying around aren't very helpful, and it must always be remembered that instances are different than patterns, pathologies do not automatically accompany attachment style variations, and what matters most is taking personal responsibility for one's own dynamic including a victim or perpetrator dynamic.

And labels only go so far in any case. They seem to be a go-to as a defense, as well. In the way of categorizing and generalizing and possibly avoiding the real issues of "Where do I go from here with what is within my realm of control.... ME?"

No I mean, with awareness... there is little that can be done if you aren't aware.

Wow this blew up while I was away. Let's see...

Likely a result of inborn characteristics + the fact that I've been blamed for so many things that I internalize a lot more than I should. (?)

I truly think you need help.

I believe anxious people are also avoidant past their surface-level anxiety. Aka "emotionally unavailable" and not in tune with their real self. They focus on other people to avoid facing themselves. If that's not avoidant, then what is it?