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Post by annieb on Jul 25, 2021 12:03:53 GMT
krolle I didn’t know what was the real me, but I had suspicions so to speak. I would access it here and there accidentally, but I didn’t recognize it. For example - this is a few years ago, I had started using ADHD medication, which really helped. I took it as prescribed (small dose) and it’s a controlled substance (Adderall), and I was doing well. I’ve gone through great lengths in life to avoid addictions to substances and I had no problem controlling Adderall as well (still don’t have a problem with it), but one day in about 2014 I had gotten into a romantic relationship with someone from my youth, we met 18 years later and I’ve always worn the pleasant, bubbly, happy self around people and that’s the person he fell in love with. As I was visiting him in Stockholm and we truly had a wonderful time, it seemed and I will never forget it. On about 3rd or 4th day if my stay there I had already taken my Adderall in the morning as usual, when around 1pm I found myself reaching for another. Adderall lifts my mood just a tiny bit, and I knew if I wanted to keep up my persona for the trip I would need an extra boost. In that moment I knew what was me and what was “her” 😂 I didn’t take the extra Adderall as I knew instinctively I would not come back from an addiction if I went that way. I broke up with him instead as I should have and it was the right decision for me. Even though I wasn’t aware of my actions as I am now for example. Now, that’s I’ve been in therapy for a better part of two years, I have a much easier time recognizing the real me and the persona, and to be honest the persona simply annoys me now 😃. When she comes in I’m like here we go again.
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Post by annieb on Jul 25, 2021 12:11:55 GMT
If I were in that same situation now, I would have probably either taken a day off from the dating and done something on my own, or simply not gotten into an intense courtship like that in the first place. My relationships since my therapy has started are similar, but I seem to cycle through the stages much faster and I recognize my behaviors better. I still have the fear of abandonment activated by the relationships, but I am able to come back from it faster, is the difference now. My goal in my therapy is to control my fear of abandonment (which I absolutely have zero at the moment, but only if I’m not in a romantic relationship of any sort).
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Post by annieb on Jul 25, 2021 12:17:26 GMT
Just to be clear - the fear of abandonment creates this lovely persona, a people pleaser and perfect. 😔
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Post by krolle on Jul 25, 2021 13:13:38 GMT
Thankyou for elaborating annie.
I think I understand. You tried to be whatever you think the person wants you to be in order to avoid abandonment. That makes sense. Though obviously not the best long term strategy when thought about with a clear mind.
I'm actually very familiar with that. Not from the perspective of doing it myself usually nowadays. But from being on the receiving end of it several times. It's a very common BPD strategy to invent a persona to get "love"/ avoid abandonment, though I imagine it's common in run of the mill insecurity too, and likely looks a little different. But either way it's not sustainable in an Ltr. And then you're a year or 2 into it and this whole other person emerges who isn't anything like the person you fell in love with, you feel somewhat duped. It's a short term solution which has short term benefits which come back to haunt you down the line. Not unlike the avoidance of a chemical addiction I guess.
Similarly with people pleasing and being a social chameleon. I used to think those were really quiet admirable qualities. Sort of noble almost. But now I realize that you're actually doing both yourself and the other person a favour by being the real you, even if it results in "healthy" conflict. They know what they're getting. I mean I understand many people put their best foot forward during the honeymoon phase. But I think it's still important to be mostly you.
Not hide your opinions if they differ from theirs etc.
My own people pleasing mostly comes as a fawning response these days. The women I tend to date become incredibly hostile and dangerous in perceived conflicts. The risk of physical, emotional, financial, reputation damage are not worth being the "real me" sometimes in those situations. But I will admit I sometimes revert back to it in order to avoid general conflict.
But in interactions with emotionally healthy people I feel relatively comfortable revealing 'mostly' me.
In the situation you mentioned about going to see your lover in Stockholm. Perhaps the best strategy if you were more secure would have just to have been regular you, and see if he liked it. But I understand that's a LOT easier said than done. Especially when feeling anxious. And especially when your very attracted to that person.
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Post by annieb on Jul 25, 2021 13:47:01 GMT
krolle I think the social chameleon thing still has a time and place, and I think for my work persona, I’m afraid I will always have to keep that up - I work in sales in a creative field and I have to sell my services and be kind and responsive during a project, which I am for the duration. I can keep it up for the duration of the project. Although I’ve let my real and regular self come out recently and honestly I got more things done that way. 😀 Regarding BPD and fear of abandonment they go hand in hand. Luckily for me also being FA, instead of the real person coming out, I just avoid people 😂 I don’t know if I have BPD, and I have been DA a d FA and AP, and I think I’m definitely slightly narcissistic, but reading about all these labels have never really clarified anything, but rather confused me. My therapist has turned me into delving into my parents relationship (as a therapist would 🤓), and that’s where I’ve found most of the answers. She is also someone, who doesn’t use labels and rather explores all the issues on a personal level, which I can stand behind this approach as I feel it’s worked. Nowadays I let everything out so to speak and have been for a while, when it comes to relationships and I’ve been overall happier. Even though my last dating situation imploded as I wasn’t getting my needs me yet again (I still choose unavailable partners), and I stumbled in my communication with this man (this was a recent short relationship in 2021), I cycled through avoidance and anxiety rapidly with him, and as painful and embarrassing it all was for me (it actually wasn’t embarrassing, he was more than thankful for my speaking the truths) I expressed all my disappointment and shame along with positive feelings I had for him (I delved into emotional availability and in essence had to do the opposite of what’s been my default). And I was also extremely supported by my therapy.. If I had to be in a relationship at this very moment, I couldn’t be, as at the moment it would still be too disruptive for me, I know I would still go into the people pleasing persona and I’m literally too fragile almost. I’m not ready and may never be, not in a way for me to not get triggered. But I think over time that will change.
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Post by annieb on Jul 25, 2021 13:59:36 GMT
krolle regarding the Swedish man, I think he probably would have liked me as the real me to a degree. Looking back the dynamic was me being FA and him being AP. I cycled through a few AP episodes of my own with him and then eventually became more and more avoidant as he became more and more AP and I eventually broke it off. But as far as relationships go this one I have the most fond memories. We treated each other really well under the circumstances. I think if you keep choosing the violent woman, it’s worth looking at your parents relationship and the blueprint it gave you. If you ever get into regular talk therapy the parents get analyzed quite a bit and it’s a very rewarding journey to explore that blueprint. My mother was a people pleaser AP and my father was an FA, my mother was an alchoholic, when she wasn’t her charming persona and my father was a wife beater, when in private and a charmer in public. I’ve modeled all my relationships and perception based on their relationship as much as I’ve consciously tried to avoid it my entire life. I looked at symptoms of their behavior, and not the cause. When I understood me I understood them.
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Post by annieb on Jul 25, 2021 14:27:08 GMT
And I guess to elaborate to a degree the Swedish man being an AP liked me also for what I wasn’t - meaning he had his own abandonment issues that he expected me to soothe that triggered me. And had he been a secure, this relationship may not have imploded. I don’t know if I’ve ever dated a secure in my entire life. I wonder if the one date ones who didn’t want to see me again were secure. Perhaps they saw through my persona. I don’t know. And perhaps the DAs also saw through the persona, but In a sense that they knew to take advantage of it I dated two DAs back to back after the Swedish man, and had two terrible relationships with them, with the second one being more serious and it was more terrifying - the man became physically violent in private. Just like my father. That relationship imploding and the breakup that lasted months was what eventually landed me in serious therapy.
At this point when I wonder if the persona is what’s attracted a man, I need to literally bounce. Even the last person I dated in the spring this year. I would describe as FA, praised me for my work persona and my “beauty”, etc. Etc. To a point I had to beg him to please stop calling me “amazing”. And then disappearing without making plans 😅 I’d rather a person spend time with me than call me amazing and never see me.
Anyway, too long. But the feeling I have now at 41 is as if I’m literally starting my life over and it’s the darnest thing.
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Post by annieb on Jul 25, 2021 20:16:07 GMT
In addendum. The saddest thing is that I always thought that I was available and I was far from it. So I lived in this delusion for the better part of my twenties and thirties, when one would make a connection and potentially a family. Of course as a career person one gets to experience other perks and all those are very nice indeed, but it’s a lot of alone time, and humans are not designed that way. Is all.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 27, 2021 0:58:48 GMT
And I guess to elaborate to a degree the Swedish man being an AP liked me also for what I wasn’t - meaning he had his own abandonment issues that he expected me to soothe that triggered me. And had he been a secure, this relationship may not have imploded. I don’t know if I’ve ever dated a secure in my entire life. I wonder if the one date ones who didn’t want to see me again were secure. Perhaps they saw through my persona. I don’t know. And perhaps the DAs also saw through the persona, but In a sense that they knew to take advantage of it I dated two DAs back to back after the Swedish man, and had two terrible relationships with them, with the second one being more serious and it was more terrifying - the man became physically violent in private. Just like my father. That relationship imploding and the breakup that lasted months was what eventually landed me in serious therapy. At this point when I wonder if the persona is what’s attracted a man, I need to literally bounce. Even the last person I dated in the spring this year. I would describe as FA, praised me for my work persona and my “beauty”, etc. Etc. To a point I had to beg him to please stop calling me “amazing”. And then disappearing without making plans 😅 I’d rather a person spend time with me than call me amazing and never see me. Anyway, too long. But the feeling I have now at 41 is as if I’m literally starting my life over and it’s the darnest thing. I like to think that I am hitting the reset button. I used to pursue when I would get that feeling of potential from someone but now I see it as a warning sign and I am walking away. Life is too short to chase what isn’t really there. The cool thing is…I am getting to know me….and it is pretty cool. I make a ton of mistakes but that is ok…so does everyone else.
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Post by annieb on Jul 27, 2021 9:40:13 GMT
tnr9 thank you for that last sum up. Too often I still float around to “be picked” rather than looking at if something is working for me. It’s a good reminder to see people and relationships objectively and stop filling in the blanks, when I see potential. It really is a warning sign of that feeling comes on again. This active maladaptive daydreaming 🤓
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