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Post by blacksnow2 on Apr 16, 2021 12:09:43 GMT
So I just ended it with another FA. I was definitely the more anxious and volatile one, but sheeeeesh, this guy could not even admit he liked me. He'd insist it was "just sex" (we never slept together because I know it would make things worse) but act in ways that suggested otherwise. I mean, I could be delusional, but he'd want to cuddle, we'd have fun and laugh together, he'd say we have a lot in common then the next day say we aren't compatible, etc.
Exhausting.
I'm not saying I don't have issues still, but I could actually express what was happening with me and attempt to rectify the situation by explaining my emotional outbursts to him. He? Wanted to have his cake and eat it too, without effort. That really hurt. But I also understand it.
So here's what I learned that may help other FA's and people trying to figure out FA's: a lot of my attraction to him was based on insecure attachment. That is to say, I'd claim it wasn't very authentic. This is the main issue with FA's. What seems like a lack of identity is really just our difficulty with understanding our own emotions: what is a trigger? what is authentic? what is just ego? Etc. During the calm moments, when the storm has passed... that is, after an emotional outburst and when I'm NOT deactivated, I gain some insight into the truth. In my highs, I feel like I'm in love. In my lows, I seem to hate him. What is the truth? Turns out I do like and care about him and there is something there to be explored and developed further, but it didn't have the chance to. We're obviously a mess.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 16, 2021 14:26:49 GMT
So I just ended it with another FA. I was definitely the more anxious and volatile one, but sheeeeesh, this guy could not even admit he liked me. He'd insist it was "just sex" (we never slept together because I know it would make things worse) but act in ways that suggested otherwise. I mean, I could be delusional, but he'd want to cuddle, we'd have fun and laugh together, he'd say we have a lot in common then the next day say we aren't compatible, etc.
Exhausting.
I'm not saying I don't have issues still, but I could actually express what was happening with me and attempt to rectify the situation by explaining my emotional outbursts to him. He? Wanted to have his cake and eat it too, without effort. That really hurt. But I also understand it.
So here's what I learned that may help other FA's and people trying to figure out FA's: a lot of my attraction to him was based on insecure attachment. That is to say, I'd claim it wasn't very authentic. This is the main issue with FA's. What seems like a lack of identity is really just our difficulty with understanding our own emotions: what is a trigger? what is authentic? what is just ego? Etc. During the calm moments, when the storm has passed... that is, after an emotional outburst and when I'm NOT deactivated, I gain some insight into the truth. In my highs, I feel like I'm in love. In my lows, I seem to hate him. What is the truth? Turns out I do like and care about him and there is something there to be explored and developed further, but it didn't have the chance to. We're obviously a mess.
I think my catch 22 is that I never experienced love that did not have some underlying motive behind it...or came with conditions. So...I have 2 reactions with men....1. I fall completely/utterly in love with a fantasy version where I think the guy will be super different from my parents or 2. I put up walls and moats and more walls....because the guys who like me I think want something from me or they don’t see me as who I am. I never had a long period with B where I could reflect and truly question things....I was so committed, so all in with this fantasy story of who he was that anything that felt like it threatened that story triggered me. It was exhausting....I would see him and a mutual friend online and think they were talking.....he would act a bit flirty with other girls and I would get jealous....he would express doubts and I would panic....he would not text for days and I would think he was ghosting me....it truly was so challenging.....and I blamed myself....I could see where I was reacting but could not find a way to self sooth. |
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Post by blacksnow2 on Apr 17, 2021 21:44:20 GMT
I never had a long period with B where I could reflect and truly question things....I was so committed, so all in with this fantasy story of who he was that anything that felt like it threatened that story triggered me. It was exhausting....I would see him and a mutual friend online and think they were talking.....he would act a bit flirty with other girls and I would get jealous....he would express doubts and I would panic....he would not text for days and I would think he was ghosting me....it truly was so challenging.....and I blamed myself....I could see where I was reacting but could not find a way to self sooth. The fantasy version.... yeah, I got a reality check on that real quick. It kicked me so hard it hurt. I could see it in the things he would say sometimes, the thought would pop in my head "wow this guy has issues" or "so many walls and shifting windows". Then I looked in the mirror and saw the same things. Weird. We both have different triggers though.
I got back in touch with him yesterday, FA-reset-style. We're not together, but we're talking. I have a more realistic view of both of us now and it's so new, the perspective, that I don't really know what to do with it. Fake it until you make it? Maybe. I'm going with the flow and learning about myself. I didn't want to let him go completely because I felt there were more lessons there for me. Who knows what will come of it?
You said:
"because the guys who like me I think want something from me or they don’t see me as who I am."
I can totally relate. In my experience, sometimes it is true.... but because of my past hypervigilance now turned "tuned in intuition", it's easy to detect those who are shady. It's the ones who aren't very shady that confuse me, because what they're presenting is something I'm not used to. I sort of think they have some tricks up their sleeve, new tricks I'm not aware of and they'll pull the rug out from under me any moment.
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simon
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Post by simon on Apr 18, 2021 11:04:52 GMT
And this is the conundrum, no?
If a person has a (unconscious) belief that love or intimacy or people are untrustworthy, they can actually be a bit more "comfortable" with the shady types (unconsciously) because they "know" and can see what they have to work with; safety comes from feeling like all is known and all cards are on the table. So actually, LOWERED anxiety (unconsciously) around unhealthy love!
But in interacting with someone that actually might be "healthy", then the unconscious doesn't believe it, feels like something is hidden, expects it to come true, searches for "evidence" that might not actually be there (confirmation bias), and feels quite "uncomfortable" with that healthy love, because it isn't "familiar" and can't seem real, so it actually causes hypervigilance, disbelief, and anxiety... to be around healthy love! Surely, surely... something is being hidden... this can't be "real". :-)
No doubt, on the healing journey one of the most powerful habits an FA can learn, is to question their stories, and beliefs, and feelings... to realize what REALLY down below the surface is happening (true cause), and that oftentimes they are not living in the present moment of life, but living in the past, through the filter of trauma. This is what leads to awareness, higher consciousness, etc...
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 25, 2021 17:24:34 GMT
And this is the conundrum, no? If a person has a (unconscious) belief that love or intimacy or people are untrustworthy, they can actually be a bit more "comfortable" with the shady types (unconsciously) because they "know" and can see what they have to work with; safety comes from feeling like all is known and all cards are on the table. So actually, LOWERED anxiety (unconsciously) around unhealthy love! But in interacting with someone that actually might be "healthy", then the unconscious doesn't believe it, feels like something is hidden, expects it to come true, searches for "evidence" that might not actually be there (confirmation bias), and feels quite "uncomfortable" with that healthy love, because it isn't "familiar" and can't seem real, so it actually causes hypervigilance, disbelief, and anxiety... to be around healthy love! Surely, surely... something is being hidden... this can't be "real". :-) No doubt, on the healing journey one of the most powerful habits an FA can learn, is to question their stories, and beliefs, and feelings... to realize what REALLY down below the surface is happening (true cause), and that oftentimes they are not living in the present moment of life, but living in the past, through the filter of trauma. This is what leads to awareness, higher consciousness, etc... I do agree with a pause...but I actually think validating a story is a better tactic then questioning it...why? Because I think that as an FA, we have in one form of fashion been conditioned to not trust...even ourselves. And it is in that mistrust of ourselves and others that we lean heavily on senses and stories. We survived because we questioned “everything” and it was not ok to validate anything.....so my new approach is to validate with the other person while trusting in my ability to take a pause. |
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Post by blacksnow2 on Jun 29, 2021 2:30:45 GMT
Update:
I slept with him many times. Looks like I have a lot of sexual walls while he needs more sexual boundaries. (I'm the type of FA that stays celibate for a long time rather than sexually acting out, and he's the opposite)
I learned a lot more about myself. For example, I apparently have some nasty narcissistic traits that I learned from my father and subconsciously have tried 'relating' to people using those traits, and the FA guy called me out big time, which I appreciate.
We had some nice times and some bad times (more triggers).
Right now we aren't really talking because he has deactivated and it hurts me.
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Post by annieb on Jun 30, 2021 0:13:14 GMT
Hey blacksnow2, just wanted to let you know that we have all been there and here, and felt that pain of getting discarded. I just want to remind you that feeling that although it sucks, it is a feeling and feelings are hard for us to acknowledge, so that's good. I would say one good thing this brought is that you can feel. Maybe going forward remember what that pain felt like, and maybe next time you won't need the negative validation. We sometimes make their unavailability as a validation for our unworthiness and it is really a projection of our pain. We subconsciously picked them to re-live this prophecy and our trauma. Maybe it's finally time to let go of that and let this person go. He's clearly got his own problems to figure out and no one is an avoidant of the person they are interested in unless they literally loathe themselves.
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Post by krolle on Jun 30, 2021 1:30:15 GMT
Are we sure were all not just borderlines in this section of the forum, including myself lol? So many overlaps between what is being talked about and BPD.
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Post by blacksnow2 on Jun 30, 2021 3:11:10 GMT
Hey annieb , thanks for that. To be honest, I'm the one who 'discarded' him, but it wasn't even really that, He said some really insensitive things to push me away (classic!) and I shut down. I don't see this going anywhere. I feel no need to contact him, I don't feel that 'AP' impulse to pull him back in. Part of the reason I stayed so long was to postpone my own growth, since it's scary. On a meta level (?), I wanted to discover that, and I have. I can't go back now. But you are so right. The other part of it was that somewhere inside of me I still felt unworthy, and he confirmed that by not giving a shit about me. He does loathe himself by the way. He doesn't think he's good enough. krolle : I'm pretty sure I'm not, but I can't speak for anyone else. BPD is closely related to CPTSD, and I'd even say it's a more severe case of CPTSD, which most FA's have (I would bet money on this). |
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Post by annieb on Jun 30, 2021 3:50:26 GMT
Are we sure were all not just borderlines in this section of the forum, including myself lol? So many overlaps between what is being talked about and BPD. I think we insecurely attached all absolutely have narcissistic and borderline traits (those are the schemas and coping mechanisms for the insecurely attached) maybe the only difference being that we are acknowledging our pain and the pain others feel, maybe it's a path of recovery, or maybe we had more empathy to begin with? In general I understand we want to put everyone into boxes and it's in a sense our own need to control. This diagnosing or psychoanalysis and the diagnostic manual. Maybe we don't all fit in neatly into the boxes and maybe it's ok:) |
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Post by krolle on Jun 30, 2021 9:34:17 GMT
[/quote]I think my catch 22 is that I never experienced love that did not have some underlying motive behind it...or came with conditions. [/quote]
I feel this too tnr9. But I can't believe unconditional love exists, with the exception of the parent child relationship. And even then, as we know often that one isn't unconditional depending on how functional the parent is.
I just can't understand how a romantic relationship could have unconditional love. it seems like a fantasy in 2021, or a relic, if it ever existed.
Has anyone experienced unconditional love outside of a parental relationship?
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Post by krolle on Jun 30, 2021 9:45:04 GMT
Are we sure were all not just borderlines in this section of the forum, including myself lol? So many overlaps between what is being talked about and BPD. I think we insecurely attached all absolutely have narcissistic and borderline traits (those are the schemas and coping mechanisms for the insecurely attached) maybe the only difference being that we are acknowledging our pain and the pain others feel, maybe it's a path of recovery, or maybe we had more empathy to begin with? In general I understand we want to put everyone into boxes and it's in a sense our own need to control. This diagnosing or psychoanalysis and the diagnostic manual. Maybe we don't all fit in neatly into the boxes and maybe it's ok:) Well said Annie, wise words for sure. I agree with your statement. And Perhaps the 2 main differences between a PD and an insecure attachment style are simply the severity and the insight then. I had just noticed some themes which I would associate with borderline traits being discussed here, and also been questioning if some of my own behaviours are borderline-esque. Despite how much I prattle on about my PD exes in other threads I'v noticed the proverbial abyss staring back at me as I gaze into it. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 30, 2021 9:59:23 GMT
I think we insecurely attached all absolutely have narcissistic and borderline traits (those are the schemas and coping mechanisms for the insecurely attached) maybe the only difference being that we are acknowledging our pain and the pain others feel, maybe it's a path of recovery, or maybe we had more empathy to begin with? In general I understand we want to put everyone into boxes and it's in a sense our own need to control. This diagnosing or psychoanalysis and the diagnostic manual. Maybe we don't all fit in neatly into the boxes and maybe it's ok:) Well said Annie, wise words for sure. I agree with your statement. And Perhaps the 2 main differences between a PD and an insecure attachment style are simply the severity and the insight then. I had just noticed some themes which I would associate with borderline traits being discussed here, and also been questioning if some of my own behaviours are borderline-esque. Despite how much I prattle on about my PD exes in other threads I'v noticed the proverbial abyss staring back at me as I gaze into it. I cannot speak to the brain chemistry of someone with BPD…but an NPD has low empathy, thus an inability to view things from another person’s perspective. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 11:57:45 GMT
I once wondered if I had a PD , in counseling to support my daughter through a trauma (family was impacted). The psychologist assured me that no person with a personality searches that out, they don't have the self awareness. They get diagnosed and then deal with it or not but are notoriously difficult to treat because they can't get on board. So I highly doubt you are personality disordered haha. Plus you are empathetic and able to introspect in ways I can't imagine a disordered person being able to. With a desire to grow, no less. That's certainly not a PD trait.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 12:17:58 GMT
Are we sure were all not just borderlines in this section of the forum, including myself lol? So many overlaps between what is being talked about and BPD. I think we insecurely attached all absolutely have narcissistic and borderline traits (those are the schemas and coping mechanisms for the insecurely attached) maybe the only difference being that we are acknowledging our pain and the pain others feel, maybe it's a path of recovery, or maybe we had more empathy to begin with? In general I understand we want to put everyone into boxes and it's in a sense our own need to control. This diagnosing or psychoanalysis and the diagnostic manual. Maybe we don't all fit in neatly into the boxes and maybe it's ok:) We definitely don't fit into neat little boxes and there is a point at which categorizing becomes an obstacle. It can take one beyond introspection into utter confusion and self doubt. For example, me being both DA and HSP can turn me in circles because of the "not supposed to" between the labels. It comes down to... what am I suffering with right now, and what can help? And focusing on that instead of trying to dig around and find the right remedy for the label itself. People are full of nuance, and categorizing is only helpful so far. And which of us clinically is going to get all the clinical labels right? We aren't qualified. Haha! |
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