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Jul 3, 2021 2:19:44 GMT
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Post by krolle on Jul 3, 2021 2:19:44 GMT
I'm going to look at the link you posted about HSP above. very interesting.
One thing I wondered, have you ever considered you might be higher than typical on the autistic spectrum somewhat? of course high functioning, Aspergers or something perhaps?
Not saying it is so. But worth considering.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2021 3:09:53 GMT
I'm going to look at the link you posted about HSP above. very interesting. One thing I wondered, have you ever considered you might be higher than typical on the autistic spectrum somewhat? of course high functioning, Aspergers or something perhaps? Not saying it is so. But worth considering. Actually, I had to take psychological tests as part of a custody evaluation because my ex was a problem drinker, and in my state when you ask for an evaluation the default is to thoroughly evaluate both sides. During that evaluation, it was determined that my psychology is normal with evidence of some signs of trauma having lived with a verbally abusive alcoholic. But no issues of neuro divergence etc. Other than, I suppose that HSP could be considered neuro divergence. It's been studied more recently and this evaluation was years ago. I don't exhibit any signs of autism, but it's striking how well the HSP fits. Every single sign, every trait, and Ive made so many adaptations to it over the years which fit the experiences of others who carry the trait. Even when I read other's accounts of being HSP, I feel ask though they have read my mind. So interesting. I have a daughter who has been diagnosed with adult ADHD, she has sensitivity along with that. My other daughter has only sensitive traits with no ADHD, and ADHD doesn't fit me either. It turns out my niece is HSP and has been familiar with it for a while- she is in med school training to be a surgeon. She tells me that my sister, (her mother) has sound sensitivity but we never spoke of it, perhaps because we grew up in the same household where any sensitivities were shamed. Ate you HSP krolle? It seems quite a few of us on the boards are!
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Jul 3, 2021 13:23:07 GMT
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Post by krolle on Jul 3, 2021 13:23:07 GMT
I'm going to look at the link you posted about HSP above. very interesting. One thing I wondered, have you ever considered you might be higher than typical on the autistic spectrum somewhat? of course high functioning, Aspergers or something perhaps? Not saying it is so. But worth considering. Actually, I had to take psychological tests as part of a custody evaluation because my ex was a problem drinker, and in my state when you ask for an evaluation the default is to thoroughly evaluate both sides. During that evaluation, it was determined that my psychology is normal with evidence of some signs of trauma having lived with a verbally abusive alcoholic. But no issues of neuro divergence etc. Other than, I suppose that HSP could be considered neuro divergence. It's been studied more recently and this evaluation was years ago. I don't exhibit any signs of autism, but it's striking how well the HSP fits. Every single sign, every trait, and Ive made so many adaptations to it over the years which fit the experiences of others who carry the trait. Even when I read other's accounts of being HSP, I feel ask though they have read my mind. So interesting. I have a daughter who has been diagnosed with adult ADHD, she has sensitivity along with that. My other daughter has only sensitive traits with no ADHD, and ADHD doesn't fit me either. It turns out my niece is HSP and has been familiar with it for a while- she is in med school training to be a surgeon. She tells me that my sister, (her mother) has sound sensitivity but we never spoke of it, perhaps because we grew up in the same household where any sensitivities were shamed. Ate you HSP krolle? It seems quite a few of us on the boards are! I'm really sorry you had to go through what you did with a verbally abusive alcoholic. That must have been incredibly difficult. But I'm glad things seem to be improving all the time with you these days. it's inspiring to read and I browse most of your posts, even if I just lurk on some. And yes there is a lot of overlap between autism and HSP, you're right! I'm a 'closet' HSP. And it's a really sensitive subject actually. But yes like you, the realization of it a very eye opening experience. Allow me to elaborate. I apologize in advance. You may have opened the flood gates on this one. But I hope it offers you some insight into the world of a male HSP. And how coping strategies can shape a person's life. I hope it might make an interesting read. I'v been told in jest by friends I should write a book or something lol.
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Jul 3, 2021 13:27:13 GMT
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Post by krolle on Jul 3, 2021 13:27:13 GMT
As a child and a younger man my life was almost defined by being too sensitive, emotionally and physically. labels had to be cut out of clothing because I couldn't stand how itchy they were. I would cry uncontrollably if I saw someone in distress. I remember watching a documentary about orphans suffering in Russia and not being able to eat for several days I was so upset. Heat bothered me, cold bothered me. I always felt agitated and uncomfortable. I was too scared of this discomfort to be able to go on school trips that involved staying overnight, and would get homesick easily. I often spent time alone and retreated into a world of fantasy. Drawing elaborate pictures of knights, dragons, maidens etc.
But unfortunately the world doesn't really accept men like that. My dad was my absolute hero growing up. He still is in many ways, though I haven't seen him in a few years. But he is the kind of man I am now (I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree). Stoic, emotionally unavailable, uncomfortable with sensitivity, self reliant, seemingly avoidant. But because I was such a sensative, needy, anxious child, he rejected me almost completely. I can remember one example where him and a few other of the family guys doing some DIY home renovation one year. I would have been about 8 or 9 I guess. And I woke up early and went to the garage with my little work boots on and some overalls wanting to be 'one of the guys', even if it was just to carry their tools or something. And when I got there he said something along the lines of "Fu*k off you useless little prick, you'll just get in the way here". I felt heartbroken.
The process was obviously slower than just one event, and wasn't just caused by my father (who I get on really well with these days!). I was painfully rejected by some of my first girlfriends for being too sensitive. But the cumulative effect was to feel such terrible shame about who I was that it precipitated a radical change in personality.
I started to play sports, lift weights and became quiet masculine, Emotion has become so worthy of distain I don't really know what they are anymore. And am thoroughly entrenched in the idea they can't be trusted. I forced myself repeatedly into uncomfortable situations to 'conquer' the sensitivity and 'kill' my HSP nature (though I had no idea it was called that at the time of course).
My life over the past couple of decades has been one of adventure, conquest and enforced hardship, probably pretty entirely started as a defence against the shame of sensitivity. I'v spent most of it alone, travelling from country to country, testing myself against the challenges of life and nature, fiercely self reliant. The difference between who I was as a child and now is quiet stark. Though I still carry the core of shame that drives my behaviour. Don't get me wrong, a lot of wonderful things have come from it. I learned solo sailing, speak several languages, can survive alone in the wilderness in extreme conditions and have seen a lot of the world etc. I'm masculine and adventurous, and yet still have some traces of sensitivity I couldn't erase. And I guess that's very attractive to some women. But it makes me pretty unviable for a happy long term relationship, so it's just the very insecure crazies that stick around with me. Though lord knows I'm trying to improve that and become more secure myself.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2021 13:34:56 GMT
I am DELIGHTED you've shared, although I haven't read it yet as I'm off to my day. But had to pop in and say thank you for sharing about yourself and your experience as a Malle HSP. I am curious to see if our stories are similar at all. Can't wait to read it, and I'll respond later today.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2021 4:14:06 GMT
As a child and a younger man my life was almost defined by being too sensitive, emotionally and physically. labels had to be cut out of clothing because I couldn't stand how itchy they were. I would cry uncontrollably if I saw someone in distress. I remember watching a documentary about orphans suffering in Russia and not being able to eat for several days I was so upset. Heat bothered me, cold bothered me. I always felt agitated and uncomfortable. I was too scared of this discomfort to be able to go on school trips that involved staying overnight, and would get homesick easily. I often spent time alone and retreated into a world of fantasy. Drawing elaborate pictures of knights, dragons, maidens etc. But unfortunately the world doesn't really accept men like that. My dad was my absolute hero growing up. He still is in many ways, though I haven't seen him in a few years. But he is the kind of man I am now (I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree). Stoic, emotionally unavailable, uncomfortable with sensitivity, self reliant, seemingly avoidant. But because I was such a sensative, needy, anxious child, he rejected me almost completely. I can remember one example where him and a few other of the family guys doing some DIY home renovation one year. I would have been about 8 or 9 I guess. And I woke up early and went to the garage with my little work boots on and some overalls wanting to be 'one of the guys', even if it was just to carry their tools or something. And when I got there he said something along the lines of "Fu*k off you useless little prick, you'll just get in the way here". I felt heartbroken. The process was obviously slower than just one event, and wasn't just caused by my father (who I get on really well with these days!). I was painfully rejected by some of my first girlfriends for being too sensitive. But the cumulative effect was to feel such terrible shame about who I was that it precipitated a radical change in personality. I started to play sports, lift weights and became quiet masculine, Emotion has become so worthy of distain I don't really know what they are anymore. And am thoroughly entrenched in the idea they can't be trusted. I forced myself repeatedly into uncomfortable situations to 'conquer' the sensitivity and 'kill' my HSP nature (though I had no idea it was called that at the time of course). My life over the past couple of decades has been one of adventure, conquest and enforced hardship, probably pretty entirely started as a defence against the shame of sensitivity. I'v spent most of it alone, travelling from country to country, testing myself against the challenges of life and nature, fiercely self reliant. The difference between who I was as a child and now is quiet stark. Though I still carry the core of shame that drives my behaviour. Don't get me wrong, a lot of wonderful things have come from it. I learned solo sailing, speak several languages, can survive alone in the wilderness in extreme conditions and have seen a lot of the world etc. I'm masculine and adventurous, and yet still have some traces of sensitivity I couldn't erase. And I guess that's very attractive to some women. But it makes me pretty unviable for a happy long term relationship, so it's just the very insecure crazies that stick around with me. Though lord knows I'm trying to improve that and become more secure myself. krolle, I am so sorry you experienced that rejection and shame. I know the experience of being shamed for my sensitivity, and rejected by my parents- but for a young boy, in the circumstance you were in, those words from your father on that day.... of course it changed the course of your life. I'm so sorry! You are fascinating, you know. And have gained much from your journey away from yourself. I think coming home will be very rewarding and comforting to you. You're well on your way you know, and it may not mean much coming from a stranger on the internet but I'm super proud of you for the way you took on the world like that. You did the best you could and grew in valuable ways. You've chosen women who rejected you the same, as your family and you yourself did but that can be over. Of course it's a process but your confusion will certainly give way to clarity in time. You are willing to begin to explore your emotional landscape the way you have explored the world, are you not? I get the impression you are. You've got much to gain there too. Even just the willingness to start softening around the edges can produce big results, this kind of thing can have a momentum to it. I think it's because our primal drive is to connect emotionally, so my opinion is you have that going for you- that which you've fought a long time to keep yourself safer can actually be utilized with the right support, and with the right folks around you. It sounds like you have good friends, who care about you. Are you able to share your inner self with them? Do you have people you share a bond of trust with? One of he first things I did was start sharing emotional pain with a trusted friend instead of shutting it down. Empathy from others can help you have empathy and sensitivity toward yourself. Being conscious of your defenses, as you are here, goes a long way toward replacing them with safe but authentic alternatives.
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Jul 4, 2021 6:53:35 GMT
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Post by krolle on Jul 4, 2021 6:53:35 GMT
Share your story with me
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Post by anne12 on Jul 4, 2021 7:11:45 GMT
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Jul 4, 2021 14:01:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2021 14:01:10 GMT
I shall! So, I was born sensitive into a family dynamic that created a bunch of avoidantly attached individuals. What a doozy. Naturally, the signs of my sensitivity presented at a young age, and were likely noticeable and vexing to my parents before I was even aware. What I remember first torturing me was the texture of clothing, the tags, the fibers, the seams, the restriction. We were poor, and there never was a choice, I wore hand me downs. Some generous soul at the church provided me with a woolen pantsuit, complete with a buttoned vest and a woven shirt. I cried to wear it, but had to. I remember walking to school on a warm day in it, and poorly fitting shoes, and feeling despair. To be honest, I don't know where avoidance ends and sensitivity begins, or vice versa. The two dovetailed to create a life of isolation and it still mystifies me, as I only recently identified the sensitive trait as A Thing. Before, I just had a vague feeling of not being able to be with The People in The Places doing The Things that people do, if you know what I mean. It's helps me get a grasp on it if I take the main issue of serious isolation and distinguish what is related to attachment (specifically in intimate relationships) versus what is related to social functioning and lifestyle. Avoidant traits blend well with HSP traits and I don't know if it's important to really analyze it, but I am still in discovery and trying to make sense of my life. However, I come back to the simplicity of the realization that I can answer these questions: What is going on with me right now this moment? What do I need, and what can I do about it. I can address both matters of avoidance and HSP by keeping that narrow focus. I am making great progress in becoming healthier and happier in those two realms, by keeping that narrow focus. Back to my story, I found myself overwhelmed in many, many situations. School. Family. Home. Church (not religious, I chose my way out of that.) My mother was an insensitive woman, and looking back I can see she obviously created a hard shell around her, to cope with what her situation was in her life. She was very disparaging of emotion. She was disparaging of other women, as well, and prided herself on how she was not like them in terms of femininity, emotionality, etc. She was an intellectual type, an Enneagram 5. Her response to my sensitivity was to condemn it, criticize, show exasperation, and pigeonhole me. She often told me I was too sensitive (when I responded negatively to her criticism, when I complained about something, when I cried.) She repeated the phrase "You're difficult to love, you've always been, Introvert." I internalized all that of course, and avoidance helped me cope, and was also developed to some extent, by this lack of nurture and acceptance. My solace was in nature, we lived in the country. I spent a vast amount of time by myself out in the fields, woods, streams, or just being with our livestock. I loved a very busy inner life as a child, often caught in fantasy. I loved books, reading, learning. I poured myself into books and they were like food and hugs. As I grew up, I felt awkward and as an outsider, although I was popular with my peers. I had a fakesuit on, in some ways. I hammed it up and was a class clown, and it was I guess to let everyone know I am just fine, nothing is upsetting to me. I think this was a way to cope with my parents divorce, and every other thing. Being isolated was only survivable to a point and at some point I needed people and laughter around me, instead of criticism and isolation and shame. I was an actor, in a group. But interestingly, HSP was manifesting in one on one situations, or quiet groups. The ability of a sensitive person to develop a deep understanding of something rather quickly, even spontaneously, was something my friends valued in me. I was often sought out for advice or my assessment, and my friends called me the Counselor. As I grew, I found relationships that recreated my original scenario. I found partners that were unable to accept me, who needed me to be something and someone different. I chose partners that would be continually disappointed, exasperated, and critical. As a child, my coping mechanism with the sensitivity was to shove it down, not acknowledge it and to suffer as silently as I could so as to avoid calling attention to myself. Also, to spend time alone. As an adult, I found that I could go away, I didn't need to endure so much of I didn't go to the Places to do the Things, with The People. So I did the opposite, I shrank my world. The avoidant narrative had a lot of traction here. I am best alone. Relationships are not important. I take care of me, you take care of you. I am needless. I am NOT vulnerable. I do not need you, and I cannot be understood by you. I don't care! This could have been helpful if I had been trained in the art of self care, but instead, I denied my self, and didn't offer the nurturing I was lacking all around. I just became isolated. I've spent a lot of time on the outside looking in, or on the outside looking away, alone in a crowd and alone one on one. I did develop a peace about it though. My thought was that I was just one of those people meant to be alone- in another life I'd have been a monk, a mad scientist, a hermit woman in a shack in the woods making medicine, that person who embraced a life of solitude and quirked the hell out of it until I die. Ha. So, I have a bubble I live and move around in, it's only more recently that I've begun to leave it at home. I'll get to that chapter in a bit- I have to move on with my morning and you and I know, I'm verbose. 😂
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2021 23:29:11 GMT
Bringing it forward to my adult single life, as a single mom after I made the right decision to leave the dysfunctional marriage... life was good, I arranged my life to suit me. I enjoy peace and quiet and alone time, and built a life to include lots of those things. The gift side of HSP is a kind of acuity when it comes to seeing patterns, comprehending complex situations, seeing deeply, processing deeply... and that's been an asset for me professionally, I'm successful and what I do and I enjoy it immensely. I connect with people one on one which is the best way for me to be social- quietly and deeply, and not for too long. It's meaningful work, and I get the right amount of people time. I have a home that's my happy place, it's beautiful but small and cozy and comfortable. Before I met my boyfriend quite by chance, I spent most actually nearly all my free time solo doing things I enjoy- I like to strength train also, for the strength part. I do think that's a shield against the vulnerability I've felt with sensitivity. I like to explore the outdoors and have all kinds of contemplative experiences there, and it makes me curious so I've spent some time exploring various topics, I go from one to the next. I tend to have something I'm studying at all times- I buy books for subjects not stories. There isn't enough time or energy to learn everything I want to know so I've specialized into one hobby that I'm passionate about but won't elaborate on because it's a male dominated skill and it seems like giving away my anonymity haha. In fact, I was engaging in that, inside my bubble, when my now-boyfriend approached me. We developed a rapport around that interest for a few months before he asked me out. We've been dating (now in a committed relationship ) since.
It's in the relationship that sh*t hit the fan for me in terms of HSP. Here I found myself in all kinds of new environments doing all kinds of different things with my adventuresome, masculine, fearless and energetic man. He's introduced me to so much. Really broadened my world. I thought I had outgrown all the sensitivity but it's really that I created a life that avoided it where I was right at home and comfortable. So now we are going on dates, restaurants, public venues, traveling. Things I avoided because of my more introverted nature and sensitivity. There was stress in the relationship over it but I couldn't put my finger on quite why. I wasn't in touch with my discomfort, it was just eating me. Other than the hearing sensitivity- I actually began seeking evaluation from an ENT and audiologist for that. My boyfriend is actually almost deaf, another way we are so opposite it's funny. I was wearing earplugs when we met and I rely on them quite a bit which makes conversation more difficult. So we actually have a plan to learn sign language together, there are times when he cannot have hearing aids like boat diving, etc... so we can communicate with his deafness and my artificial deafness haha. I am looking forward to this and we need to be prepared should he lose hearing completely.
When I came to this forum , anne12 suggested that hearing sensitivity is a sign of HSP, and when I checked it out I was floored. So I've shared a bit here on the forum about that journey, accepting it and grieving some things and learning how to take care of myself and look at the good side of it, step into the gift of it more. We have had to change things in the relationship to accommodate me so that's been heartwarming that he wants to support me that way- but it hasn't been without bringing up a lot of stuff for me. The baggage associated.
It's been a step out of my avoidance to talk with him about all of it, face the fears I had about being a weakling or high maintenance person because I've spent my life being kind of opposite that. I think you know exactly what I mean. Kind of minimalist but taking care of creature comforts, not asking much or expecting much, relying on myself, pretty stoic in ways. Tried to live unaffected and independent and I'm tough in a lot of ways. So really embracing HSP , it's shattered some of my own defenses. Anne's been a real role model for me and we had some private convos about it all. I've said, I don't know how old she is but it's like all the sudden I found this woman who is guiding me, helping me, like a kind aunt who could relate to me in a way my mom couldn't, it's been great. She grew up with a feminine, nurturing mother and has kind of shown me the ropes with her posts on here, how to love myself and take good care of myself around this. I say aunt because she's wiser and more experienced with it than me.
So, that's where I'm at. Learning to live as an HSP and rock it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2021 14:27:49 GMT
krolle, I know that's a lot of reading. I wanted to gently and in a friendly way, express some thoughts about your aversion to emotion. I get it. But I see some things I'd like to share. Please take as friendly. As I see it: This aversion is not logical and is based on emotion itself- an emotional reaction to painful emotions. It is not all emotion you have an aversion to, as there is a very wide spectrum of emotions that are beneficial and not just feeling states- emotions have a purpose and direct our action if experienced mindfully. Joy begets joy in ourselves and others, and can be very nourishing and inspiring. Anger can produce productive action, when empowered by conscious decisions. Shame has an evolutionary purpose, perhaps to guide humans in the way to conduct themselves in a healthy society, and avoid harm to others, guilt has the ability to spur one toward self reflection and commitment to correct harmful behavior. All emotions can become unhelpful and dysfunctional- or they can be productive. This is where the intellect comes in- using intelligence and courage to recognize and consider the source, and the potentials. Of course there is a great deal of physiological reactivity in emotion as well. But again, rational acceptance of that can lead to a rational response to that as well. This in my view is how rational thought and emotion can be integrated toward health and the best human life possible. Now, it's not simple, it's a life long process. But it's worth considering how your distaste for emotion might more accurately be described as a response to abuse and trauma, rejection and loneliness and shame. It's true strength to be able to accept and work with emotion, and it be driven to extremes by it. The world is not black and white, nor for us humans is it a matter of rationality and intellect vs emotions. The emotions are an intrinsic part of our nature that cannot be eradicated but must be accommodated and appreciated in a way that creates instead of destroys.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2021 14:32:35 GMT
By rational response to physiological reactions... I mean, mere acceptance of that as fact, and then making choices such as some kind of mediating exercises as posted in the general forum, and conscious choices to recognize and intercept them as has been shown possible by experts in the field. Along with this naturally comes the emotions associated with safety and human connection, as these are intrinsic as well unless disrupted by some sort of issue in the brain and nervous system. What I'm saying is that in the range of "normal" human functioning, working intelligently with all emotions is not only possible it's our responsibility. That's just how Insee it, as we impact ourselves and others through a failure to embrace this.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2021 15:14:39 GMT
What I'm saying:
It's a fact that your physiology is not just wired for survival, fight flight freeze fawn. Part of your physical nature is the survival mechanism of connection and attachment. There is not a way to deny that and work against it without stepping into folly and ignorance. And we are more than animals surviving. The human experience is profound and to discount it is arrogance, in my view. I've done it. but it was fear and also who am I to think that my mind is superior to the greatest thinkers of all time? It's insecurity that drives us to extremes, not wisdom.
I saw this as someone who can relate but has come to place with it where it's all making sense to me. Painful as life can be, that's where it's at.
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Jul 6, 2021 0:28:10 GMT
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Post by krolle on Jul 6, 2021 0:28:10 GMT
I intend on responding to your posts. Im enjoying this depth of conversation. Just had a really stressful couple of days so my minds not quiet with it today. Plus I'v been ashamedly drinking too much. I'm going to read your posts now as I get into bed, but a response may take a little time.
...or not depending how much motivation I can generate tomorow lol. Finding it really hard to do the basics lately. Shower, brush teeth etc.
😁
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Jul 6, 2021 3:25:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2021 3:25:34 GMT
I intend on responding to your posts. Im enjoying this depth of conversation. Just had a really stressful couple of days so my minds not quiet with it today. Plus I'v been ashamedly drinking too much. I'm going to read your posts now as I get into bed, but a response may take a little time. ...or not depending how much motivation I can generate tomorow lol. Finding it really hard to do the basics lately. Shower, brush teeth etc. 😁 No worries at all Krolle, and remember there is absolutely no criticism of you in what I'm saying. Even in the last posts- these are reflections on my own positions O have had over time, being in pain and denying key parts of mine and others humanity- feelings. Take good care and I look forward to more conversation with you!
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