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Post by star on Jun 8, 2021 22:04:52 GMT
Hi! First time posting. So glad I found this community  Recently left my bf (45M) after 3 years. I suspect he is DA but maybe a hybrid and would love to get some advice on his attachment style, and also the effort he put in. When we first met, things were pretty great. He is successful, handsome, funny, athletic, high self esteem, alpha male. Total catch. He seemed into it too, he always showed up, texted regularly, made plans and kept them. He met my family but I never met his family. He never saw them once! (He is an adult child of an alcoholic mom.) It took a while to be intimate, but he said he wanted to wait bc he saw the relationship as so much more. When we finally did, it never felt spontaneous or hot. And I realized quickly that he never initiated, which was hard for me. Eventually I started feeling like I was being a burden. When I would bring it up, he admitted intimacy was hard for him when he really liked someone. Casual relationships were easier. I asked multiple times to go to couples therapy, he declined. And bc I was vocal about my needs w intimacy, it became the elephant in the room.. and intimacy became as rare as an African elephant sighting, ironically. We chugged along this way for a while. I am secure, so I tried to give him A LOT of space. We saw each other twice a week or so, sometimes more. After a year of this and me asking for more affection, more intimacy, just more in general- he said I needed to stay over more for him to become more comfortable. So, I packed a big bag and stayed over for 2 months. I thought things were going good, but my intuition told me he was somewhat relieved when I went back to my place. He never asked me to stay again, but would make passive aggressive remarks to his pets, saying to them that I didnt want to stay over, while I was in earshot. But at the same time, he'd cram all my stuff in a drawer, out of sight, like he was hiding me. SO many mixed messages. In the beginning he said he wanted kids, but as time went on, he started to back down, saying he wasn't sure anymore. So I tried to walk away- but he convinced me to stay- saying he just needed more time and that he saw us being together, all in. So, I waited... all the while feeling more and more alone. Finally he told me he didn't want kids. I was pretty upset, as I was nearing the end of my fertile years and felt strung along. But by this point I said I could be ok with the no kids, but I still wanted marriage. He said he didn't want a big wedding, and we started talking about buying a house and combining our finances. He also started doing therapy on his own so he could be a better partner for me. After a few months of this, yet no further talk of future plans, he announced he was done with therapy. I said great, can we talk about our future? He started to stall again. At this point, I was ready to walk away - so I said it's been 3 years, its time to sh*t or get off the pot. He said he couldn't do it. I asked him why didn't he tell me sooner than just waiting for me to get to this point? He said bc he always thought he could fix it and address my needs eventually, and that loss of attraction wasn't the issue. He just couldn't make the leap. I had so many feelings/questions/etc but I was just so hurt and upset, and honestly, kind of over it- so I told him I thought he should continue therapy and best of luck. Did I push him over the edge prematurely? The whole break up was so weird. It all happened over text. He texted me a few days after to shoot the shit, which felt so bizarrely casual so I never responded. It's now been a month without contact. I have gone through a rollercoaster of emotions from anger, sadness, disbelief, to just WTF! Also, he never acknowledged how hard I tried to be patient, hoping he'd live up to what he said he wanted...it always felt like it was about him and his issues. And I am still so angry about feeling strung along during some really crucial years that I could have been with someone who wanted to have a kid (and meant it!) I have been trying to understand what happened by researching online, and on the plus side, have found so much helpful info. I just would love some advice on his attachment style and insight into his behavior? For my own sanity. |
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Post by dullboat123 on Jun 9, 2021 1:39:13 GMT
I have to get in before people get in and start blaming YOU for your drama with the DA string along. Remember, its not you, its the DA. Its never you. You're just reacting to their abuse. It is very common for a secure to swing towards anxious when paired with an avoidant, DA or FA. Check out the link below and perhaps you'll find a lot of clues that pointed your ex as an avoidant. psychcentral.com/blog/love-matters/2018/07/16-signs-of-an-avoidant-or-unavailable-partner#1What you had experienced is pretty much the same as me. The future faking is so convincing that they can string you along for a long time. The saga with mine was also about 3 years give and take. Ultimately, you are bending over for him to accommodate him while he puts in less than minimum in a relationship. You deserve better. DA's will never acknowledge the effort of others because they lack empathy and understanding. Even if you and him work out and have kids, he'll make a piss poor partner anyway so why bother? You deserve as much love as everyone else, not the drips and drops that the DA gives. Fk that, you deserve better. I got a feeling he will hoover back and try to suck you in again. DO NOT fall for it. You'll just waste more of your already extremely precious time. He said he's working on himself through therapy is a lie. I bet my bottom dollar his therapist doesn't know he's an avoidant, which is why there aren't any improvement in his behaviour. Also I would say his therapy sessions would be him ripping you apart, making it seem like its you who is hard to love. Then when the therapist start to identify his avoidance issue, he pulls the pin, saying he's done with therapy. Mind you, no one is really "done" with therapy after a few months. And he didn't show any improvement anyway so therapy is just another ploy to make you stay. I say, block him, kick him out of your life. He is only a giant time waster like my ex was. Use whatever energy you have left to move on and find someone better. Anyone is better than this great big walking fraud. Its been 3 years not 3 weeks. Even if he is aware of his own avoidant style, it will take decades for him to get better and meet your needs, while you have to live with decades of not getting 100% from him. Why bother? There's better people out there. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 1:39:30 GMT
Hi, I'm sorry you lost those years to a dead end relationship. He showed lot of handicaps from fairly early it sounds like? It sounds like the whole thing was kind of a disappointment in spite of good times you might have had, and fantasies about the future. It's really important to have your own realistic timelines, not hard and fast rules but a certain point at which you evaluate whether actions are aligning with words. I think a lot of people including me have hung out hoping something would get better, giving the other person too much say-so when they actually don't demonstrate the capacity to be any kind of leader. They get the final word anyway, and it's always disappointing.
I hope that you are able to grieve this and take away some growth in terms of your own standards for choosing and building a relationship with a future based on a good foundation of emotional availability. It sounds like he was fairly unavailable from the start, and while he may have been willing to explore that, he did it on your time. I'm sure you have gotten stung by that and won't be hoping for a future with someone who doesn't demonstrate the kind of emotional/physical availability you need.
I'm sure that others will come along with good insight. As to the question, did he try hard enough? For who? In my opinion he tried exactly as hard as he did and it wasn't enough but it's impossible to expect more, and it would be a huge mistake to give him any more of your time and attention. I'd block him, and investigate your own beliefs and choices just so you can be sure to know how to recognize and choose a more emotionally available partner in the future.
Again, I sympathize with the pain and anger you have about losing time to this guy. The biological clock only has so much time. It seems like men in their 40's with no families yet are a risky gamble- perhaps a red flag for someone family minded. Those interested in family most likely have tried by then even if they failed.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 9, 2021 2:15:45 GMT
Hi! First time posting. So glad I found this community Recently left my bf (45M) after 3 years. I suspect he is DA but maybe a hybrid and would love to get some advice on his attachment style, and also the effort he put in. When we first met, things were pretty great. He is successful, handsome, funny, athletic, high self esteem, alpha male. Total catch. He seemed into it too, he always showed up, texted regularly, made plans and kept them. He met my family but I never met his family. He never saw them once! (He is an adult child of an alcoholic mom.) It took a while to be intimate, but he said he wanted to wait bc he saw the relationship as so much more. When we finally did, it never felt spontaneous or hot. And I realized quickly that he never initiated, which was hard for me. Eventually I started feeling like I was being a burden. When I would bring it up, he admitted intimacy was hard for him when he really liked someone. Casual relationships were easier. I asked multiple times to go to couples therapy, he declined. And bc I was vocal about my needs w intimacy, it became the elephant in the room.. and intimacy became as rare as an African elephant sighting, ironically. We chugged along this way for a while. I am secure, so I tried to give him A LOT of space. We saw each other twice a week or so, sometimes more. After a year of this and me asking for more affection, more intimacy, just more in general- he said I needed to stay over more for him to become more comfortable. So, I packed a big bag and stayed over for 2 months. I thought things were going good, but my intuition told me he was somewhat relieved when I went back to my place. He never asked me to stay again, but would make passive aggressive remarks to his pets, saying to them that I didnt want to stay over, while I was in earshot. But at the same time, he'd cram all my stuff in a drawer, out of sight, like he was hiding me. SO many mixed messages. In the beginning he said he wanted kids, but as time went on, he started to back down, saying he wasn't sure anymore. So I tried to walk away- but he convinced me to stay- saying he just needed more time and that he saw us being together, all in. So, I waited... all the while feeling more and more alone. Finally he told me he didn't want kids. I was pretty upset, as I was nearing the end of my fertile years and felt strung along. But by this point I said I could be ok with the no kids, but I still wanted marriage. He said he didn't want a big wedding, and we started talking about buying a house and combining our finances. He also started doing therapy on his own so he could be a better partner for me. After a few months of this, yet no further talk of future plans, he announced he was done with therapy. I said great, can we talk about our future? He started to stall again. At this point, I was ready to walk away - so I said it's been 3 years, its time to sh*t or get off the pot. He said he couldn't do it. I asked him why didn't he tell me sooner than just waiting for me to get to this point? He said bc he always thought he could fix it and address my needs eventually, and that loss of attraction wasn't the issue. He just couldn't make the leap. I had so many feelings/questions/etc but I was just so hurt and upset, and honestly, kind of over it- so I told him I thought he should continue therapy and best of luck. Did I push him over the edge prematurely? The whole break up was so weird. It all happened over text. He texted me a few days after to shoot the shit, which felt so bizarrely casual so I never responded. It's now been a month without contact. I have gone through a rollercoaster of emotions from anger, sadness, disbelief, to just WTF! Also, he never acknowledged how hard I tried to be patient, hoping he'd live up to what he said he wanted...it always felt like it was about him and his issues. And I am still so angry about feeling strung along during some really crucial years that I could have been with someone who wanted to have a kid (and meant it!) I have been trying to understand what happened by researching online, and on the plus side, have found so much helpful info. I just would love some advice on his attachment style and insight into his behavior? For my own sanity. Sooo...he doesn’t sound DA to me...not with the attempts and halts....it sounds more like something that someone who has a bit more of a fearful avoidant attachment would do. I completely understand how disappointing and angry making this whole situation has been. From his perspective and given the tools that he had...he probably thought he was meeting you half way...but was it enough for you? No...and I think it is healthy to acknowledge it. I am not a big fan of “blame”....I think what you experienced was an insecure man going through the motions of trying to be in a relationship with you while still being influenced by his fears. Until he decides that he wants to address his own wounds and earn secure...he will likely be stuck in unsatisfactory relationships. |
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Post by star on Jun 9, 2021 2:59:05 GMT
He said he's working on himself through therapy is a lie. I bet my bottom dollar his therapist doesn't know he's an avoidant, which is why there aren't any improvement in his behaviour. Also I would say his therapy sessions would be him ripping you apart, making it seem like its you who is hard to love. Then when the therapist start to identify his avoidance issue, he pulls the pin, saying he's done with therapy. Mind you, no one is really "done" with therapy after a few months. MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! I am nowhere near perfect and therapy for me has been a continuing process. So for him to say he just needed a few sessions and that he was 'done', made me feel exactly what you have said. Thank you for that link- I wish I had read it before I met him. Now I know so much more. |
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star
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Post by star on Jun 9, 2021 3:09:57 GMT
Hi, I'm sorry you lost those years to a dead end relationship. He showed lot of handicaps from fairly early it sounds like? It sounds like the whole thing was kind of a disappointment in spite of good times you might have had, and fantasies about the future. It's really important to have your own realistic timelines, not hard and fast rules but a certain point at which you evaluate whether actions are aligning with words. I think a lot of people including me have hung out hoping something would get better, giving the other person too much say-so when they actually don't demonstrate the capacity to be any kind of leader. They get the final word anyway, and it's always disappointing. I hope that you are able to grieve this and take away some growth in terms of your own standards for choosing and building a relationship with a future based on a good foundation of emotional availability. It sounds like he was fairly unavailable from the start, and while he may have been willing to explore that, he did it on your time. I'm sure you have gotten stung by that and won't be hoping for a future with someone who doesn't demonstrate the kind of emotional/physical availability you need. I'm sure that others will come along with good insight. As to the question, did he try hard enough? For who? In my opinion he tried exactly as hard as he did and it wasn't enough but it's impossible to expect more, and it would be a huge mistake to give him any more of your time and attention. I'd block him, and investigate your own beliefs and choices just so you can be sure to know how to recognize and choose a more emotionally available partner in the future. Again, I sympathize with the pain and anger you have about losing time to this guy. The biological clock only has so much time. It seems like men in their 40's with no families yet are a risky gamble- perhaps a red flag for someone family minded. Those interested in family most likely have tried by then even if they failed. Thank you so much for your empathetic response. I agree that he tried as hard as he did... I think part of the reason I'm so interested in learning about his attachment style is because I can't understand it from my frame of reference, since I love intimacy. Also, if tables were turned, I couldn't keep going knowing my partner had a ticking biological clock and I was holding her up. But im not him- and so I research to help me not take it personally and to try to move past, release with love (trying realllllly hard). Not let it traumatize me. Think more about what I need. I fell in love with his potential- but I should have focused more on his actions in front of me. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 3:17:30 GMT
star If you want to learn in order to understand the kinds of insecure attachment, I HIGHLY recommend the threads in the General forum by anne12. Healing DA, Healing Disorganized (FA) and healing Ambivalent (Anxious). There you will find leading experts' findings on the origin and expression of attachment wounding, from an empathetic and professional perspective. Potential is nothing- it's not reality. It's wishing thinking, probably on both parts. It's what's right in front of you and what you can co-create with someone who is on the same page that counts. I think there are a lot of really great threads by anne12 that can support you- there is one on healing a broken heart you might be interested in. She posts a lot of constructive, wonderful stuff.
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Post by star on Jun 9, 2021 3:19:35 GMT
Sooo...he doesn’t sound DA to me...not with the attempts and halts....it sounds more like something that someone who has a bit more of a fearful avoidant attachment would do. I completely understand how disappointing and angry making this whole situation has been. From his perspective and given the tools that he had...he probably thought he was meeting you half way...but was it enough for you? No...and I think it is healthy to acknowledge it. I am not a big fan of “blame”....I think what you experienced was an insecure man going through the motions of trying to be in a relationship with you while still being influenced by his fears. Until he decides that he wants to address his own wounds and earn secure...he will likely be stuck in unsatisfactory relationships. Thank you. Yes, he seems to have elements of FA, because he did seem to want a serious relationship. I am inclined to think if I just kept going with it, we would just be in this limbo of "friends who aren't allowed to date anyone else" for a really long time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 3:28:34 GMT
Sooo...he doesn’t sound DA to me...not with the attempts and halts....it sounds more like something that someone who has a bit more of a fearful avoidant attachment would do. I completely understand how disappointing and angry making this whole situation has been. From his perspective and given the tools that he had...he probably thought he was meeting you half way...but was it enough for you? No...and I think it is healthy to acknowledge it. I am not a big fan of “blame”....I think what you experienced was an insecure man going through the motions of trying to be in a relationship with you while still being influenced by his fears. Until he decides that he wants to address his own wounds and earn secure...he will likely be stuck in unsatisfactory relationships. Thank you. Yes, he seems to have elements of FA, because he did seem to want a serious relationship. I am inclined to think if I just kept going with it, we would just be in this limbo of "friends who aren't allowed to date anyone else" for a really long time. DA's can try to be in serious relationships also, it's really not one-size-fits all for any of the types. I think tnr9 is speaking to the push/pull start-stop type of rollercoaster. I agree you would be in limbo a long time. You already were in limbo unfortunately. I don't doubt that he tried and just couldn't get there- the internal conflict for an FA (if he has elements of that style, and growing up with an alcoholic parent that seems likely)... the internal conflict is real and confusing. Even for DA the internal conflict is confusing. So, anyway- I hope you do well in healing and processing and getting through that emotional hardship. You certainly aren't alone! |
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Post by dullboat123 on Jun 9, 2021 3:54:57 GMT
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! I am nowhere near perfect and therapy for me has been a continuing process. So for him to say he just needed a few sessions and that he was 'done', made me feel exactly what you have said. Thank you for that link- I wish I had read it before I met him. Now I know so much more. No worries. Take this time to heal and mourn the relationship but don't stay there too long. In a way, you and I fell for a scam. Love scam that is time wasting, emotion wasting and not to mention financially in a way. I would like to reframe "loving his potential". Thing is for DA/FA, they do not have potential. They only have a mask. You fell in love with a mask. A façade. Deep inside, they are hollow, incapable of love because they do not know what love is. They just want a housemate that they can have sex with while they keep you at arm's length, keep secrets, be passive-aggressive, compartmentalise their lives etc and they think that's love. Its not. That is friendship, not relationship. A relationship needs commitment and commitment is the very thing that scares them. What relationship in this case? if you allow this to happen, you'll never get any form of commitment from them and they're ready to check out as soon as things gets even slightly hard. Just like how he treats his own therapy. Do you want to be in a relationship with someone with constantly at the back of your head, he's going to pull the pin any minute? Even having that thought is mentally abusive. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 9, 2021 11:29:47 GMT
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! I am nowhere near perfect and therapy for me has been a continuing process. So for him to say he just needed a few sessions and that he was 'done', made me feel exactly what you have said. Thank you for that link- I wish I had read it before I met him. Now I know so much more. No worries. Take this time to heal and mourn the relationship but don't stay there too long. In a way, you and I fell for a scam. Love scam that is time wasting, emotion wasting and not to mention financially in a way. I would like to reframe "loving his potential". Thing is for DA/FA, they do not have potential. They only have a mask. You fell in love with a mask. A façade. Deep inside, they are hollow, incapable of love because they do not know what love is. They just want a housemate that they can have sex with while they keep you at arm's length, keep secrets, be passive-aggressive, compartmentalise their lives etc and they think that's love. Its not. That is friendship, not relationship. A relationship needs commitment and commitment is the very thing that scares them. What relationship in this case? if you allow this to happen, you'll never get any form of commitment from them and they're ready to check out as soon as things gets even slightly hard. Just like how he treats his own therapy. Do you want to be in a relationship with someone with constantly at the back of your head, he's going to pull the pin any minute? Even having that thought is mentally abusive. I really take exception to this post....I am FA and I am not a narcissist and I have great empathy. You keep pushing your relationships onto all DAs and FAs like we are all the same....we are not....and a DA or FA is not a narcissist....a narcissist is a personality disorder...not an attachment wound. I know you are still hurt from your relationships but your posts are really misleading and frankly damaging. I invite you to read back over my posts to gain some understanding of how one FA person has struggled with her wounds and is trying to work her way towards secure. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 9, 2021 11:49:36 GMT
He said he's working on himself through therapy is a lie. I bet my bottom dollar his therapist doesn't know he's an avoidant, which is why there aren't any improvement in his behaviour. Also I would say his therapy sessions would be him ripping you apart, making it seem like its you who is hard to love. Then when the therapist start to identify his avoidance issue, he pulls the pin, saying he's done with therapy. Mind you, no one is really "done" with therapy after a few months. MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! I am nowhere near perfect and therapy for me has been a continuing process. So for him to say he just needed a few sessions and that he was 'done', made me feel exactly what you have said. Thank you for that link- I wish I had read it before I met him. Now I know so much more. An unavailable partner simply means someone who is currently unable to be fully in a reciprocal relationship....and that is the case for all insecure partnerships. I am not a fan of these articles because they purposely set up a dynamic where a person is purposefully lying.....the only time I have experienced that is with the full blown narcissist I dated for 3 years. Otherwise...it has really been more of the guy not being able (due to trauma wounds) to meet my needs. Having good boundaries and constantly checking in with yourself are very good tools. Most people that agree to therapy to stay in a relationship won’t stick with it....therapy requires opening up very old and hurtful wounds and if he had an alcoholic mom...I am sure those wounds are ones he would rather not revisit. It is not a simple thing for an insecure to go through therapy....lots of guilt, shame, anger and sadness get stirred up. So he likely gave up because he was not ready to go down that path. I do invite you to read more posts...especially in the forums for DA, FA and AP members to talk amongst themselves..you will see things from a fresh perspective and perhaps gain some insight into the whys behind some of the outward behavior. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 12:21:09 GMT
No worries. Take this time to heal and mourn the relationship but don't stay there too long. In a way, you and I fell for a scam. Love scam that is time wasting, emotion wasting and not to mention financially in a way. I would like to reframe "loving his potential". Thing is for DA/FA, they do not have potential. They only have a mask. You fell in love with a mask. A façade. Deep inside, they are hollow, incapable of love because they do not know what love is. They just want a housemate that they can have sex with while they keep you at arm's length, keep secrets, be passive-aggressive, compartmentalise their lives etc and they think that's love. Its not. That is friendship, not relationship. A relationship needs commitment and commitment is the very thing that scares them. What relationship in this case? if you allow this to happen, you'll never get any form of commitment from them and they're ready to check out as soon as things gets even slightly hard. Just like how he treats his own therapy. Do you want to be in a relationship with someone with constantly at the back of your head, he's going to pull the pin any minute? Even having that thought is mentally abusive. I really take exception to this post....I am FA and I am not a narcissist and I have great empathy. You keep pushing your relationships onto all DAs and FAs like we are all the same....we are not....and a DA or FA is not a narcissist....a narcissist is a personality disorder...not an attachment wound. I know you are still hurt from your relationships but your posts are really misleading and frankly damaging. I invite you to read back over my posts to gain some understanding of how one FA person has struggled with her wounds and is trying to work her way towards secure. it's helpful when reading this poster's toxicity, to remember that they themselves have written about their own lack of empathy. Also, at one point they wrote about how they had reflected on their blowouts in relationships and had found a pattern of damaging relationships with friends and family because of their verbal outbursts. It's in the last major thread this poster started. There may be traits beyond attachment style operating here, don't take the bait. We have basically established a respectful community here where people of all types post constructively, thankfully posters like this are the exception rather than the rule. Thank you for your own insightful contributions to the forum! Let's carry on with our own intelligent discussions without giving weight to this. If it becomes too unpleasant just block this poster and create a boundary, as he has shown no interest in balancing his extreme views with the kind of empathy he would like to have for himself. Trolls will be trolls. Just my perspective, Take it or leave it! |
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Post by dullboat123 on Jun 9, 2021 12:35:40 GMT
Just because I have a different view, albeit extreme, doesnt make me a troll.
Alas, an avoidant being an avoidant - the devaluing, trying your best to discredit my views, the name calling and seeing others in the worst possible light...🤷♂️
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 12:37:13 GMT
Just because I have a different view, albeit extreme, doesnt make me a troll. Alas, an avoidant being an avoidant - the devaluing, trying your best to discredit my views, the name calling and seeing others in the worst possible light...🤷♂️ You're silly. Reference my last post in your last thread and I'll leave it at that. As you were, dullboat. |
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