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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 13:12:14 GMT
So, respectfully, I think the word “compatibility” is a moot point, completely useless in this case. Incompatibility and compatibility imply intrinsic characteristics of a connection, and thus it can definitely cause someone to feel shame about trying to make something work when it’s “incompatible.” I strongly believe that the truth is that that word “compatibility” does not apply to DA/FA and AP/secure relationships. Why? Because people with extreme avoidance will deactivate and become incompatible with someone they are compatible with. We all know that. It is not the fault of the AP or secure partner or some combination that they do not consider this back and forth “incompatibility”, 1) because attachments styles can and do change, it is not a fixed characteristic and 2) because the reasons these relationships don’t work is more nuanced and sad. Compatibility is too much of an umbrella term and it can mean too many different things. And ultimately, if it means the willingness of two people to work on a relationship, then an extreme avoidant is incompatible with anyone and everyone. I disagree, compatibility is exactly what's at question here, taking into consideration the below definition. If a couple can't maintain the relationship in a satisfying matter for the long term due to issues in communication or any other realm they are incompatible. I refer to the textbook definition of compatibility and take it that alexandra does too- beyond OP's fantasy and into the reality of being incompatible with someone who cannot pass the test of teamwork over time. Also, I needn't beat anyone up to say I am incompatible with them, it doesn't need to be anyone's fault. It just means their way of being is not for me. It takes time to determine such a thing and can't be ascertained in the earliest part of a relationship. I've learned that the hard way too but it's made me better at understanding true compatibility. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpersonal_compatibilityMy simple point that I stand by is that I consider an incompatible partner someone who cannot pass the test of teamwork OVER TIME. On off on off , hot cold behavior over time demonstrates incompatibility, and some recognize this earlier than others, from what I've seen. |
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Post by annieb on Oct 20, 2021 13:37:21 GMT
dexter - it is not your place to ask her whether or not she did her homework. Nor if she committed to the relationship. Those were things the therapist would have asked and she would have answered in the safe space of the therapists office. You’re bullying her and I’m really surprised she has tolerated you thus far. She is probably under pressure now since you’ve bonded with the child. What a mess. Please commit to your own therapy and stop manipulating this poor woman.
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dexter
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Post by dexter on Oct 20, 2021 16:03:50 GMT
dexter - it is not your place to ask her whether or not she did her homework. Nor if she committed to the relationship. Those were things the therapist would have asked and she would have answered in the safe space of the therapists office. You’re bullying her and I’m really surprised she has tolerated you thus far. She is probably under pressure now since you’ve bonded with the child. What a mess. Please commit to your own therapy and stop manipulating this poor woman.
First of all, it was my girlfriend's idea to go to couple therapist specialized in att theory.
Second, it was our team homework. We've had to write down phrases when do we feel being loved, than sit together, discuss every phrase, ask ourselves if we can fulfill each other needs, and then commit or not to work on the relationship. Than we've had to call our therapist. She asked us to call for a meeting next week. So, after 5 days I just asked politely if we can sit and talk in the evening. Yes, I felt offended and act that way, but it was definately not bulling, just a frustration because of her typical avoidance on any serious talk about us.
Maybe you are right what a therapist should do. But she left that stuff in our hands. So, I can agree at this point, as I mentioned about her difficulties to being vulnerable, communicate and to commit. Leaving that without therapist supervision introduced only a turmoil between us.
And no, she is not under pressure because I am bonded with a child. We've talked about it (also because earlier I had concerns that she sticks with me because of a kid) and have an agreement and healthy perspective. And there is no need to discuss about it here.
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Post by annieb on Oct 20, 2021 16:15:20 GMT
Right, at the next appointment she could share with the therapist why she didn’t do her homework. At no point it was your job to remind her. The only time you could remind her would be to ask her to listen to you share your homework with her, say your peace; and leave it there, and if she doesn’t want to hear it, you would leave it there and carry on. Instead you gave her silent treatment while playing with her child. Essentially triangulating her with her child. I can’t imagine what all this must be like for her.
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dexter
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Post by dexter on Oct 20, 2021 16:35:37 GMT
I wrote mine. And asked her if she did her and if we can talk in the evening. Seriously that is a bullying? I am very sorry for acting offended and I apologised her for that yesterday and explained how do I feel and what was the cause. I make mistakes and I try to work on myself. And it wasn't a silent treatment, she came back from work at evening, I've prepared dinner for her, and we were just not talking to each other unasked. After dinner she was occupied with other things and me and a kid was very occupied finishing a new lego kit for an hour or so. I cannot see any triangulation with a kid here. Kid is not a toy nor an item in our "fights".
Oh, in the meantime she criticised me for pouring too hot water when bathing a child and for giving him a crafted boar ham for dinner, which he fell in love with. Just usual things when we are both triggered.
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dexter
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Post by dexter on Oct 20, 2021 16:47:55 GMT
My simple point that I stand by is that I consider an incompatible partner someone who cannot pass the test of teamwork OVER TIME. On off on off , hot cold behavior over time demonstrates incompatibility, and some recognize this earlier than others, from what I've seen.
Please explain this to me. You mean that deactivating strategies of an avoidant are just a signs of incompatibility? If you are incomapitible with a secure, the secure will just left, but an anxious and avoidant start the endless dance, unable to detach because of their unhealthy compliance?
So, why do we need to "heal" insecurities? When an avoidant would meet a compatible person he would not activate and life happy marriage. Simple as that.
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Post by annieb on Oct 20, 2021 17:01:37 GMT
dexter - good for you for apologizing. That’s great! Other than that let her be and let her do her thing, but and hopefully you can have a DTR talk sooner than later. You have to both agree whether or not you are committed and hopefully the next therapy session will bring that clarity.
From what I see coparenting is still the only thing that would be healthy in this dynamic. I would be neutral (not pouting), and help her as needed, but focus on you for the next week, and what you want and need, and not in reference to her. But in general, focus in what kind of relationship in the future (with a warm blob, not a particular person if you can help it 🤓) you envision for yourself, and what would make you content and let you grow.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 17:37:18 GMT
My simple point that I stand by is that I consider an incompatible partner someone who cannot pass the test of teamwork OVER TIME. On off on off , hot cold behavior over time demonstrates incompatibility, and some recognize this earlier than others, from what I've seen.
Please explain this to me. You mean that deactivating strategies of an avoidant are just a signs of incompatibility? If you are incomapitible with a secure, the secure will just left, but an anxious and avoidant start the endless dance, unable to detach because of their unhealthy compliance?
So, why do we need to "heal" insecurities? When an avoidant would meet a compatible person he would not activate and life happy marriage. Simple as that.
Yes to the first point. If an avoidant or any insecure person is unable to be a team player due to their insecure behaviors, then they remain incompatible with any partner. If they improve their capacity for healthy relating they may find compatibility. I don't understand why the confusion. The question is are you compatible with her as she is. Why the focus on fictional others, and whether an avoidant would be compatible with someone else? I don't understand why that's coming up here. Isnt it your own relationship that's in question?! |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 20, 2021 19:28:58 GMT
@introvert, it is an anxious-leaning person's pattern to speculate about whether or not a partner who things aren't work out well with would do better with someone else. This is because the anxious person is searching for the "silver bullet" answer to what can they do and change to "make" the other person meet their needs. Which goes back to a childhood need to find ways to stay attached to an adult caregiver who didn't consistently meet their needs or even necessarily treat them well. So if the person would be more compatible with a different partner, it's 1. perceived as a failing for the anxious person to flog themselves with and 2. understanding why they'd be compatible elsewhere is seen as a blueprint for what pretzel shape to bend into to keep the partner around and try and try again. Because ultimately if you accept it's out of your control, then you'll you have no other ideas for how to get your needs met (if you're AP or FA). Especially not by this person, who is already an attachment figure, and then how do you stay connected? And if you disconnect willfully, you get overwhelmed with panic. To other points in the discussion, no, a secure person doesn't just leave. They talk fully to the partner and commit both verbally and in actions to trying to work things out if they've decided that. Or, if after hashing things out there seems to be no way to improve things because differences and dealbreakers run deep, then they leave, but you'll know why without confusion. In this case, someone secure wouldn't skip their homework if they were committed to the therapy. Your partner may be ready to invest heavily in her own therapy but may not be ready to be both feet in for couples therapy. Or may need to make more personal progress in her own therapy before being open and committed enough to couples therapy. I don't know her and don't know, but what she did isn't helpful. Neither is you taking frustration out on her, because you're trying to change the current pattern instead of falling back into it. But that takes time and practice and usually doesn't happen on the first try. I agree with annieb that the next best move is to discuss during the next appointment how the team assignment went. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 19:50:32 GMT
@introvert, it is an anxious-leaning person's pattern to speculate about whether or not a partner who things aren't work out well with would do better with someone else. This is because the anxious person is searching for the "silver bullet" answer to what can they do and change to "make" the other person meet their needs. Which goes back to a childhood need to find ways to stay attached to an adult caregiver who didn't consistently meet their needs or even necessarily treat them well. So if the person would be more compatible with a different partner, it's 1. perceived as a failing for the anxious person to flog themselves with and 2. understanding why they'd be compatible elsewhere is seen as a blueprint for what pretzel shape to bend into to keep the partner around and try and try again. Because ultimately if you accept it's out of your control, then you'll you have no other ideas for how to get your needs met (if you're AP or FA). Especially not by this person, who is already an attachment figure, and then how do you stay connected? And if you disconnect willfully, you get overwhelmed with panic. To other points in the discussion, no, a secure person doesn't just leave. They talk fully to the partner and commit both verbally and in actions to trying to work things out if they've decided that. Or, if after hashing things out there seems to be no way to improve things because differences and dealbreakers run deep, then they leave, but you'll know why without confusion. In this case, someone secure wouldn't skip their homework if they were committed to the therapy. Your partner may be ready to invest heavily in her own therapy but may not be ready to be both feet in for couples therapy. Or may need to make more personal progress in her own therapy before being open and committed enough to couples therapy. I don't know her and don't know, but what she did isn't helpful. Neither is you taking frustration out on her, because you're trying to change the current pattern instead of falling back into it. But that takes time and practice and usually doesn't happen on the first try. I agree with annieb that the next best move is to discuss during the next appointment how the team assignment went. Thanks, that was baffling to me. I don't see the point myself but it's down to different strategies of the Ap I suppose. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2021 3:10:24 GMT
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 21, 2021 11:09:48 GMT
Because I am pre medication and did not sleep well…I will explain how this article feels to me as an AP leaning FA with regards to B. To me, this article is a dry set of talking points….and believe me, while I was dating B, I read hundreds of articles about how to make a man happy etc. While it is all well and good to say….here are things to look out for, here is why this person was not a good fit…when I am in the depth of things…there is no such thing as it being not a good fit…it is like saying to me at 2 years of age that my mom was not a good fit…..that can’t be. Because the drive is soooo strong emotionally to connect and connect with this one person it is beyond the dry commentary. The Who am I without this person, the absolute need to figure out that one way to be to retain their love to stop the fear and questioning….it isn’t a choice. It is my first “go to” after decades of this….and I have to wait for my medication to kick in in order to have any access to reason to pause and question this automatic response. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2021 12:29:12 GMT
Because I am pre medication and did not sleep well…I will explain how this article feels to me as an AP leaning FA with regards to B. To me, this article is a dry set of talking points….and believe me, while I was dating B, I read hundreds of articles about how to make a man happy etc. While it is all well and good to say….here are things to look out for, here is why this person was not a good fit…when I am in the depth of things…there is no such thing as it being not a good fit…it is like saying to me at 2 years of age that my mom was not a good fit…..that can’t be. Because the drive is soooo strong emotionally to connect and connect with this one person it is beyond the dry commentary. The Who am I without this person, the absolute need to figure out that one way to be to retain their love to stop the fear and questioning….it isn’t a choice. It is my first “go to” after decades of this….and I have to wait for my medication to kick in in order to have any access to reason to pause and question this automatic response. That's ok. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I simply am clarifying my take, anyone can take it or leave it. The concept has been so challenged by anxious posters here that it's been really confusing to me. Now I understand that as part of their insecurity. At any rate, I have a position, this is what it is, and I don't subscribe to the AP line of thinking at all. alexandra described it in a way I can understand... but engaging with it becomes a circular conversation that I don't want to be in. |
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 21, 2021 17:20:10 GMT
Because I am pre medication and did not sleep well…I will explain how this article feels to me as an AP leaning FA with regards to B. To me, this article is a dry set of talking points….and believe me, while I was dating B, I read hundreds of articles about how to make a man happy etc. While it is all well and good to say….here are things to look out for, here is why this person was not a good fit…when I am in the depth of things…there is no such thing as it being not a good fit…it is like saying to me at 2 years of age that my mom was not a good fit…..that can’t be. Because the drive is soooo strong emotionally to connect and connect with this one person it is beyond the dry commentary. The Who am I without this person, the absolute need to figure out that one way to be to retain their love to stop the fear and questioning….it isn’t a choice. It is my first “go to” after decades of this….and I have to wait for my medication to kick in in order to have any access to reason to pause and question this automatic response. That's ok. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I simply am clarifying my take, anyone can take it or leave it. The concept has been so challenged by anxious posters here that it's been really confusing to me. Now I understand that as part of their insecurity. At any rate, I have a position, this is what it is, and I don't subscribe to the AP line of thinking at all. alexandra described it in a way I can understand... but engaging with it becomes a circular conversation that I don't want to be in. But I wasn't trying to convince you of anything either....just was sharing from how I experience it. And whether you subscribe to the AP line of thinking...it is helpful especially on these boards to be less dismissive of it. The way you have responded is exactly how my mom would and imagine how that made me feel to have my feelings "dismissed". I never have understood this from a dismissive avoidant....the dismissal of other's reality instead of trying to understand it. Is it not something that can be held as separate and not something that has to be denied? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2021 17:39:49 GMT
That's ok. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I simply am clarifying my take, anyone can take it or leave it. The concept has been so challenged by anxious posters here that it's been really confusing to me. Now I understand that as part of their insecurity. At any rate, I have a position, this is what it is, and I don't subscribe to the AP line of thinking at all. alexandra described it in a way I can understand... but engaging with it becomes a circular conversation that I don't want to be in. But I wasn't trying to convince you of anything either....just was sharing from how I experience it. And whether you subscribe to the AP line of thinking...it is helpful especially on these boards to be less dismissive of it. The way you have responded is exactly how my mom would and imagine how that made me feel to have my feelings "dismissed". I never have understood this from a dismissive avoidant....the dismissal of other's reality instead of trying to understand it. Is it not something that can be held as separate and not something that has to be denied? I find the AP approach to be combative and actually dismissive of other points of view as well. I think AP are also very unaware of how they come across, typically as victims of other perspectives that don't align with their own. Did you affirm my POV? Did you find any validity there that you could align with? No, but that is fine with me, it takes nothing from me. I was asked to explain my position- that doesn't oblige me to change it or bend over backwards to make people feel ok with it. The article was not written by a DA, So I figured I would put it here in case it explains it better and I thought it was very thorough. I have tried to disagree respectfully and bow out of the discussion. I am not your mother nor need you respond to me as you might her. We just disagree and I don't find anything to push against in that. So- I'm the only DA here and clearly you more anxious leaning align together. I can accept that your adaptation is what it is but I don't want to engage about it. Is that not fair? I've offered explanation I was asked for. Now, I would like to respectfully refrain from further discussion. Not everyone has to agree or people please in any direction. I'm not hostile, simply not wanting to expend time and energy in this topic. I have other topics I am interested in here. |
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